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Can you reinstall OEM Windows XP after replacing hard drive?

    Question

  • I'm looking at replacing the primary hard drive in my computer, which I originally had built for me by a local PC store in 2002. The hard drive in the computer has already been replaced once, in 2005.

    I have the original holographic OEM Windows XP Home "Version 2002" disc with Service Pack 1 on it. It says "For distribution with a new PC only".

    Will I be able to install Windows onto the new hard drive using this disc and the OEM Product Key from the Certificate of Authenticity sticker on my computer? This same OEM Product Key was used to reinstall Windows XP when the hard drive was replaced in 2005.

    The disc also says to contact the manufacturer of the computer for support, but the company that built my PC is no longer in business.

    Friday, July 30, 2010 1:14 AM

Answers

  • Hello minivama,

    From what you posted it should work just fine.

    Good Luck!  :-)


    Buy Office 2007 Now, Get Office 2010 Free http://office2010.microsoft.com/en-us/tech-guarantee/microsoft-office-2010-technology-guarantee-FX101825695.aspx?CTT=97
    Friday, July 30, 2010 3:09 AM
  • "minivama" wrote in message news:9de1ccca-428b-4df5-994f-03ec8b526536...

    Just to add to what Noel posted, with an OEM license there is a further restriction in that the license is permanently tied to the computer onto which it was first installed and cannot be moved to any other computer.

    But you are installing on the same computer so that restriction is beside the point in your case.  You should be fine :-)

    This is the second thing I was worried about, whether or not installing a new hard drive counts as a "new computer". I read Microsoft defines a computer by its motherboard and that if you change the board, it's considered a "new computer" and the OEM key won't activate a new installation, but wasn't sure if a hard drive was subject to that as well.

    (However, then I read in the event you're forced to replace the motherboard because it fails and can't get a duplicate replacement, you may still be able to activate OEM XP by phone if you explain you have no other option but to get a different mobo. Could that possibly be true? It's not related to my situation but I was curious.)

    If I did install XP to a new drive and for some reason they refused to activate it even by phone, what would be the other options? Would I have to buy a new copy of XP? Could I switch back to the old hard drive and keep using it?


    MS generally considers changing the motherboard to be enough to invalidate a OEM license (unless done by the manufacturer under warranty) - pretty much everything else is up for grabs, though. If you change enough stuff, you may have to re-activate, but so long as the motherboard is the same it doesn't invalidate the license (although it may invalidate the manufacturer's warranty).
    MS refuses to publicise exactly what it will construe as a 'new computer' under the OEM License terms - probably to allow themselves enough wiggle-room for cases like a motherboard blowing up 1 day out of warranty, exact replacements not being available, or the manufacturer's warranty being voided for non-germane reasons (such as going bust).
     
    There is NO WAY that they will refuse to activate a machine simply for a change of hard drive. The hard drive is not a part of the 'computer' as such - it's an in-built peripheral, in the same way that the CD/DVD-Drive is.
     
    If you're at all concerned, then simply take out the old drive, insert the new, and install it - activate the resulting install (by phone), and then visit the Validation site. Everything should go perfectly smoothly. If it doesn't, you can then swap the old drive back in, and go with second-best, and use the new drive as a data disk, or do a disk-to-disk copy between the two (old to new) from a partition manager, and try the new disk on its own after that (you may have to re-activate in the latter case - but it's unlikely unless you've changed other stuff inside the case in the past 4 months) 
     
    I can't help wondering if perhaps you've also changed something else inside the case, and this is causing your concerns?

    --


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth
    • Marked as answer by minivama Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:24 AM
    Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:10 AM

All replies

  • Hello minivama,

    From what you posted it should work just fine.

    Good Luck!  :-)


    Buy Office 2007 Now, Get Office 2010 Free http://office2010.microsoft.com/en-us/tech-guarantee/microsoft-office-2010-technology-guarantee-FX101825695.aspx?CTT=97
    Friday, July 30, 2010 3:09 AM
  • Really? Are you sure? I'm very worried that when I try to install windows I won't be allowed to activate it. Is there a limit to the number of times you can re-install OEM Windows XP Home?
    Friday, July 30, 2010 9:01 AM
  • "minivama" wrote in message news:cf574ea9-8d5a-4ec9-85e5-50df19ddc4b5...
    Really? Are you sure? I'm very worried that when I try to install windows I won't be allowed to activate it. Is there a limit to the number of times you can re-install OEM Windows XP Home?

    You can reinstall any version of Windows onto the same computer as many times as you like - providing only one installation exists at a time. After a few reinstalls, you may be required to activate by telephone, rather than over the Internet, but that's all.
     

    --


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth
    Friday, July 30, 2010 9:25 AM
  • Hello minivama,

    Just to add to what Noel posted, with an OEM license there is a further restriction in that the license is permanently tied to the computer onto which it was first installed and cannot be moved to any other computer.

    But you are installing on the same computer so that restriction is beside the point in your case.  You should be fine :-)


    Buy Office 2007 Now, Get Office 2010 Free http://office2010.microsoft.com/en-us/tech-guarantee/microsoft-office-2010-technology-guarantee-FX101825695.aspx?CTT=97
    Friday, July 30, 2010 11:39 AM
  • Just to add to what Noel posted, with an OEM license there is a further restriction in that the license is permanently tied to the computer onto which it was first installed and cannot be moved to any other computer.

    But you are installing on the same computer so that restriction is beside the point in your case.  You should be fine :-)

    This is the second thing I was worried about, whether or not installing a new hard drive counts as a "new computer". I read Microsoft defines a computer by its motherboard and that if you change the board, it's considered a "new computer" and the OEM key won't activate a new installation, but wasn't sure if a hard drive was subject to that as well.

    (However, then I read in the event you're forced to replace the motherboard because it fails and can't get a duplicate replacement, you may still be able to activate OEM XP by phone if you explain you have no other option but to get a different mobo. Could that possibly be true? It's not related to my situation but I was curious.)

    If I did install XP to a new drive and for some reason they refused to activate it even by phone, what would be the other options? Would I have to buy a new copy of XP? Could I switch back to the old hard drive and keep using it?

    Saturday, July 31, 2010 6:19 AM
  • Noel said:
    You can reinstall any version of Windows onto the same computer as many times as you like - providing only one installation exists at a time. After a few reinstalls, you may be required to activate by telephone, rather than over the Internet, but that's all.

    How can there be more than one installation of Windows on one computer? Would that be like if you had two partitions, and installed Windows XP SP1 with Internet Explorer 5 on one partition, then installed Windows XP on the other partition, updated it to SP3 and put Internet Explorer 8 on it, so you could switch back and forth for web building testing purposes? Would installing and activating OEM XP on the second drive "de-activate" XP on the first? What would happen if you tried to boot to the first partition after activating XP on the second?

    BTW I know it would be absurd to do this (you could just do a Virtual Machine with an less-current OS and IE version on it for testing), I'm just wondering what the result would be.

    Saturday, July 31, 2010 6:26 AM
  • "minivama" wrote in message news:d72ad58a-23f2-4993-ac2b-0aa040c4ae54...
    Noel said:
    You can reinstall any version of Windows onto the same computer as many times as you like - providing only one installation exists at a time. After a few reinstalls, you may be required to activate by telephone, rather than over the Internet, but that's all.

    How can there be more than one installation of Windows on one computer? Would that be like if you had two partitions, and installed Windows XP SP1 with Internet Explorer 5 on one partition, then installed Windows XP on the other partition, updated it to SP3 and put Internet Explorer 8 on it, so you could switch back and forth for web building testing purposes? Would installing and activating OEM XP on the second drive "de-activate" XP on the first? What would happen if you tried to boot to the first partition after activating XP on the second?

    BTW I know it would be absurd to do this (you could just do a Virtual Machine with an less-current OS and IE version on it for testing), I'm just wondering what the result would be.


    Dual-booting is quite common - I currently have the option on this laptop to boot either to Win 7 or to Vista. I used to have one machine where I could boot to three different installs of Vista, as well as ME and XP. (this was during the Vista Beta test). Multi-booting is natively supported by XP and higher OS's although the order of install can be problematic (you need to install the oldest OS first, etc).
    If you were to install a second instance of the same license on the same machine, then (as far as I know) normally the first one would still be activated - but would fail the Validation tests. There is no 'de-activation' process in any current system, although there is something that looks like it in Win 7, I thinks that it's a purely local thing rather than something that's 'mediated' through MS's servers.
    Incidentally - you cannot use the same License key in a  VM as elsewhere at the same time, either. As far as the OS, Activation, and Validation systems are concerned, a VM is just another computer (and moving a VM from  VPC into VMWare or another environment would also trigger a re-activation request).
     
    HTH?
    --


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth
    Saturday, July 31, 2010 9:50 AM
  • "minivama" wrote in message news:9de1ccca-428b-4df5-994f-03ec8b526536...

    Just to add to what Noel posted, with an OEM license there is a further restriction in that the license is permanently tied to the computer onto which it was first installed and cannot be moved to any other computer.

    But you are installing on the same computer so that restriction is beside the point in your case.  You should be fine :-)

    This is the second thing I was worried about, whether or not installing a new hard drive counts as a "new computer". I read Microsoft defines a computer by its motherboard and that if you change the board, it's considered a "new computer" and the OEM key won't activate a new installation, but wasn't sure if a hard drive was subject to that as well.

    (However, then I read in the event you're forced to replace the motherboard because it fails and can't get a duplicate replacement, you may still be able to activate OEM XP by phone if you explain you have no other option but to get a different mobo. Could that possibly be true? It's not related to my situation but I was curious.)

    If I did install XP to a new drive and for some reason they refused to activate it even by phone, what would be the other options? Would I have to buy a new copy of XP? Could I switch back to the old hard drive and keep using it?


    MS generally considers changing the motherboard to be enough to invalidate a OEM license (unless done by the manufacturer under warranty) - pretty much everything else is up for grabs, though. If you change enough stuff, you may have to re-activate, but so long as the motherboard is the same it doesn't invalidate the license (although it may invalidate the manufacturer's warranty).
    MS refuses to publicise exactly what it will construe as a 'new computer' under the OEM License terms - probably to allow themselves enough wiggle-room for cases like a motherboard blowing up 1 day out of warranty, exact replacements not being available, or the manufacturer's warranty being voided for non-germane reasons (such as going bust).
     
    There is NO WAY that they will refuse to activate a machine simply for a change of hard drive. The hard drive is not a part of the 'computer' as such - it's an in-built peripheral, in the same way that the CD/DVD-Drive is.
     
    If you're at all concerned, then simply take out the old drive, insert the new, and install it - activate the resulting install (by phone), and then visit the Validation site. Everything should go perfectly smoothly. If it doesn't, you can then swap the old drive back in, and go with second-best, and use the new drive as a data disk, or do a disk-to-disk copy between the two (old to new) from a partition manager, and try the new disk on its own after that (you may have to re-activate in the latter case - but it's unlikely unless you've changed other stuff inside the case in the past 4 months) 
     
    I can't help wondering if perhaps you've also changed something else inside the case, and this is causing your concerns?

    --


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth
    • Marked as answer by minivama Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:24 AM
    Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:10 AM
  • Hi Noel,

    > If you were to install a second instance of the same license on the same machine, then (as far as I know) normally the first one would still be activated - but would fail the Validation tests. There is no 'de-activation' process in any current system

    Does that mean if I get a new drive, do a fresh install of this OEM WinXP and activate it successfully, but need to switch back to the old drive afterward for some reason, I would be able to plug the old drive back in, turn the computer on and it would still startup and work correctly? Or does failing the validation tests mean the original WinXP install on that disk would no longer be useable?

    > Incidentally - you cannot use the same License key in a VM as elsewhere at the same time, either.

    Oh, I didn't even think of that - I downloaded a VM last year with Win XP on it already that was made so you could test websites in IE6 after upgraing to IE7, but of course it was timebombed. So I was thining of that type of situation, I didn't think about actually installing the OS on it yourself!

    > MS generally considers changing the motherboard to be enough to invalidate a OEM license (unless done by the manufacturer under warranty) - pretty much everything else is up for grabs, though. If you change enough stuff, you may have to re-activate, but so long as the motherboard is the same it doesn't invalidate the license (although it may invalidate the manufacturer's warranty).

    Not a problem for me though since the warranties on everything in this machine are long gone (as is the company that built it)... :-( Is it true that if you replace your motherboard with the exact same model of motherboard it would still be considered the "same" computer?

    > MS refuses to publicise exactly what it will construe as a 'new computer' under the OEM License terms - probably to allow themselves enough wiggle-room for cases like a motherboard blowing up 1 day out of warranty, exact replacements not being available, or the manufacturer's warranty being voided for non-germane reasons (such as going bust).

    Yeah, I had a feeling that's why it's so hard to find out exactly what counts, combined with them having a phone number you can call to explain your particular situation. I even read a message (not an official one) somewhere that specifically said it was to cover situations like not being able to get an exact replacement mobo.
     
    > There is NO WAY that they will refuse to activate a machine simply for a change of hard drive. The hard drive is not a part of the 'computer' as such - it's an in-built peripheral, in the same way that the CD/DVD-Drive is.

    Awesome! :-D
     
    > If you're at all concerned, then simply take out the old drive, insert the new, and install it - activate the resulting install (by phone), and then visit the Validation site. Everything should go perfectly smoothly. If it doesn't, you can then swap the old drive back in, and go with second-best, and use the new drive as a data disk, or do a disk-to-disk copy between the two (old to new) from a partition manager, and try the new disk on its own after that (you may have to re-activate in the latter case - but it's unlikely unless you've changed other stuff inside the case in the past 4 months)

    Ah, this is excactly what I was now hoping to try!! LOL Except in reverse--I was going to attempt to clone the current drive to the new one and see if it works (since, if successful, it would just run right away as though it was the original drive, right?), and if the cloning fails or disk doesn't boot I was going to try a fresh install. That's why I asked about partitions having different installs of Windows, just didn't want to confuse the issue by talking about different physical hard drives. I just want to know for sure that if I do the fresh install and something goes wrong, I would still be able to go back to the current drive.

    One other thing--what would happen if I did a clone of the original drive to the new one, but then updated the new drive to SP3 while the original drive was still SP2? Would that cause the original disk to not work anymore or be invalidated?
     
    > I can't help wondering if perhaps you've also changed something else inside the case, and this is causing your concerns?

    No, I'm not very experienced with computers (only thing I've ever installed myself is one piece of RAM). The problem is, I ran Samsung's HDD diagnostic tool and it found two ECC Errors near the beginning of the disk, so I'm guessing that means the drive is going to fail soon. (I'm not sure what it actually means but the tool said it recommended erasing the drive, which can't be good. :-( ) Since it's such an old computer and I can't afford to replace it, I really want to try and salvage it, but if something goes wrong trying to install a new drive, having the old drive to fall back on until figuring out another solution would be very comforting.

    BTW thank you so much for all your help - I really appreciate it! And I apologize for this message being so long
    Saturday, July 31, 2010 8:02 PM
  • "minivama" wrote in message news:e96f1d10-8f65-438e-8a33-a6838a9a8dea...

    One other thing--what would happen if I did a clone of the original drive to the new one, but then updated the new drive to SP3 while the original drive was still SP2? Would that cause the original disk to not work anymore or be invalidated?
     
    > I can't help wondering if perhaps you've also changed something else inside the case, and this is causing your concerns?

    No, I'm not very experienced with computers (only thing I've ever installed myself is one piece of RAM). The problem is, I ran Samsung's HDD diagnostic tool and it found two ECC Errors near the beginning of the disk, so I'm guessing that means the drive is going to fail soon. (I'm not sure what it actually means but the tool said it recommended erasing the drive, which can't be good. :-( ) Since it's such an old computer and I can't afford to replace it, I really want to try and salvage it, but if something goes wrong trying to install a new drive, having the old drive to fall back on until figuring out another solution would be very comforting.

    BTW thank you so much for all your help - I really appreciate it! And I apologize for this message being so long
    No need for apologies - it's things like this that force me to rethink stuff I take for granted :)
    As far as I know, in the case of XP at least, all that may be required would be a reactivation request - but it would definitely pass (at least on phone activation - you may need to get hold of an operator)
     
    Cloning the drive is really the best and least time-consuming option, assuming you have a good working installation to clone from.
    Be aware that cloning a drive can (depending on the software used for the job) also move 'bad sector flags' across to the new drive - such problems are usually easily solved by running the manufacturer's test utility, and using  the option to repair such sectors (if the option exists - it doesn't, for all manufacturers) then running CHKDSK in deep-scan mode to force a retest of all 'bad sectors'. This is one reason why I tend to use disk copying rather than bytewise cloning.
    Cloning will also result in a (for example) 40GB partition on a 200GB disk - so you'll need to either use third-party tools to expand the boot partition, or create a second partition using Disk Management in XP.
     
    You're correct in that ECC errors are probably a sign that your drive is on its way out - the timescale on that sort of failure is unpredictable at best, so the sooner you move to the new drive the better.
     

    HTH
     

    --


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth
    Sunday, August 01, 2010 10:23 AM
  • No need for apologies - it's things like this that force me to rethink stuff I take for grantedAs far as I know, in the case of XP at least, all that may be required would be a reactivation request - but it would definitely pass (at least on phone activation - you may need to get hold of an operator)

    Cloning the drive is really the best and least time-consuming option, assuming you have a good working installation to clone from. Be aware that cloning a drive can (depending on the software used for the job) also move 'bad sector flags' across to the new drive - such problems are usually easily solved by running the manufacturer's test utility, and using  the option to repair such sectors (if the option exists - it doesn't, for all manufacturers) then running CHKDSK in deep-scan mode to force a retest of all 'bad sectors'. This is one reason why I tend to use disk copying rather than bytewise cloning.

    Cloning will also result in a (for example) 40GB partition on a 200GB disk - so you'll need to either use third-party tools to expand the boot partition, or create a second partition using Disk Management in XP.

    You're correct in that ECC errors are probably a sign that your drive is on its way out - the timescale on that sort of failure is unpredictable at best, so the sooner you move to the new drive the better.

    Thank you again Noel! I just realized something - if I did fresh install XP on the new drive, activate it, then needed to go back to the old one, would it be possible to call and re-activate the old Windows installation? 

    I'm also concerned that the ECC errors mean part of Windows is on a bad sector. I've been having slow startup and shutdown lately and I suppose that could be the reason (I'm not positive either way). There aren't any bad sectors marked on my disk as far as I know, but if I clone it, it would be copying corrupted files, right? But even in that case, Windows should load at least as well as it does with the current drive since those same files would already be corrupted, right?

    And this may be a silly question, but if I fresh install on the new drive would my internet connection still work?

    Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:54 PM
  • "minivama" wrote in message news:e5dc36f0-fb00-4b01-8f97-0079d118d90e...
    No need for apologies - it's things like this that force me to rethink stuff I take for grantedAs far as I know, in the case of XP at least, all that may be required would be a reactivation request - but it would definitely pass (at least on phone activation - you may need to get hold of an operator)

    Cloning the drive is really the best and least time-consuming option, assuming you have a good working installation to clone from. Be aware that cloning a drive can (depending on the software used for the job) also move 'bad sector flags' across to the new drive - such problems are usually easily solved by running the manufacturer's test utility, and using  the option to repair such sectors (if the option exists - it doesn't, for all manufacturers) then running CHKDSK in deep-scan mode to force a retest of all 'bad sectors'. This is one reason why I tend to use disk copying rather than bytewise cloning.

    Cloning will also result in a (for example) 40GB partition on a 200GB disk - so you'll need to either use third-party tools to expand the boot partition, or create a second partition using Disk Management in XP.

    You're correct in that ECC errors are probably a sign that your drive is on its way out - the timescale on that sort of failure is unpredictable at best, so the sooner you move to the new drive the better.

    Thank you again Noel! I just realized something - if I did fresh install XP on the new drive, activate it, then needed to go back to the old one, would it be possible to call and re-activate the old Windows installation? 

    I'm also concerned that the ECC errors mean part of Windows is on a bad sector. I've been having slow startup and shutdown lately and I suppose that could be the reason (I'm not positive either way). There aren't any bad sectors marked on my disk as far as I know, but if I clone it, it would be copying corrupted files, right? But even in that case, Windows should load at least as well as it does with the current drive since those same files would already be corrupted, right?

    And this may be a silly question, but if I fresh install on the new drive would my internet connection still work?

    Since you're using an OEM version, the proper drivers for your hardware should be installed automatically during the install (assuming you use the proper Recovery disks). If you have a router, rather than a modem connection, then you should have no problem connecting straight to the internet. If you have a modem that plugs into the USB port, you will need to make sure that you have its installation disks handy (and your logon and password details).
     
    You can check that Windows is OK using the System File Checker (Start>Run, type SFC /SCANNOW and hit the Enter key) - you may need to have your XP disk handy. This will check that all system files are in the correct version, and present, and attempt to repair any errors.
    Your long boot time could simply be a case of having a large number of startup items - have a look in MSCONFIG to see what's loading at startup.
    You could also have a look in the Event Viewer to see if there's any indication of what may be holding things up.
    Frequently, the cause of long boot times is simply the AV doing a system files scan before allowing the desktop to load - try disabling the AV, then rebooting, and see what difference it makes (make sure that you re-enable it afterwards!).
     
    If you run "CHKDSK   C:    /R" it will force a full scan of the system drive (assuming it's the C: drive) on the next boot - you can then look in event viewer after it's run to see what the results are.
     
    HTH

     
     

    --


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth
    Monday, August 02, 2010 7:28 AM
  • Thank you so much again Noel for taking the time to help me with this!!!

    >> Since you're using an OEM version, the proper drivers for your hardware should be installed automatically during the install (assuming you use the proper Recovery disks). If you have a router, rather than a modem connection, then you should have no problem connecting straight to the internet. <<

    I do have a router. (My computer is the primary computer though and has the router software installed on - does that matter? Will I need to reinstall it and reconfigure the router?) Does XP install drivers that would make the ethernet port on my computer work? The only driver disk I have that says "ethernet" is a floppy and I don't trust my floppy drive (haven't used it in years and years and it does weird things). BTW I have a second computer that also connects to the internet through the router so if there's an emergency I can hopefully get on that one to download drivers needed to get the ethernet working.

    BTW I got the new 500gb drive last night and tried the cloning, but it failed (not surprisingly) with a "Read sector failure" error. So I guess my options are either run chkdsk, hope it works, then try cloning again (which is unlikely based on the message threads I read about this problem), or just go for the fresh install on the new drive.

    The more I think about it the more I lean toward fresh install - my Windows setup is really crazy from all these years of "tweaking" and that would be a nice way to get rid of all the baggage. Just as long as I can get my soundcard, ethernet port, dvd-rw drive and other important hardware working... But then, I keep remembering more things I'll have to deal with, like installing Apache (use it for testing php-based sites through localhost), which didn't seem hard last time but you hear all these horror stories. Manually back up all my MySQL databases to replace them, configure php, configure Eclipse PDT (which was complicated) - and those are just the website-related ones... LOL It's very daunting.

    >> Your long boot time could simply be a case of having a large number of startup items - have a look in MSCONFIG to see what's loading at startup.
    You could also have a look in the Event Viewer to see if there's any indication of what may be holding things up. <<

    I don't think it's startup items (I've got it down the bare minimum via CCleaner). Event Viewer shows an exactly 3-minute lag between Windows loading TCPIP and loading system services, so I was guessing Windows may be waiting for something to time out before continuing to load? My ISP has been very bad for the last couple of weeks (tons of "outages") and I originally assumed that was the reason for the slow startup and hang after TCPIP loads. The slow shutdown was fixed by installing the User Profile Hive Cleanup utility, but that's just masking the real problem.

    Also, Windows loads with no lag in safe mode, Diagnotstic Startup, and Selective Startup with everything enabled except System Services, so I'm pretty sure it's a System Service that's causing it. Just wasn't able to figure out which one.
     
    >> If you run "CHKDSK   C:    /R" it will force a full scan of the system drive (assuming it's the C: drive) on the next boot - you can then look in event viewer after it's run to see what the results are. <<

    I'm just afraid chkdsk will either destroy Windows (if parts of it are on bad sectors) or never finish - then I'd be even worse off, with no old drive to fall back on. The last time I ran it I think it took more than a day to finish. (I have a huge number of small files on this drive.) With a 5-year-old drive doesn't it seems wiser to just replace the drive rather than trying to fix it?

    One other thing - do you know of any guides that explain the process of starting from scratch with a brand-new drive to partition and format the drive and install Windws XP? I haven't been able to find one that explains the entire process. Do you just boot from the XP disc and it lets to partition/format from there? Do I need to detach all of the PCI cards (including the Ethernet card and sound card) from the motherboard first?

    (Sorry I'm going so far off topic)
    Monday, August 02, 2010 9:05 PM
  • "minivama" wrote in message news:6528918f-0f56-4285-877a-2ac4a75b9d78...
    Thank you so much again Noel for taking the time to help me with this!!!

    >> Since you're using an OEM version, the proper drivers for your hardware should be installed automatically during the install (assuming you use the proper Recovery disks). If you have a router, rather than a modem connection, then you should have no problem connecting straight to the internet. <<

    I do have a router. (My computer is the primary computer though and has the router software installed on - does that matter? Will I need to reinstall it and reconfigure the router?) Does XP install drivers that would make the ethernet port on my computer work? The only driver disk I have that says "ethernet" is a floppy and I don't trust my floppy drive (haven't used it in years and years and it does weird things). BTW I have a second computer that also connects to the internet through the router so if there's an emergency I can hopefully get on that one to download drivers needed to get the ethernet working.

    BTW I got the new 500gb drive last night and tried the cloning, but it failed (not surprisingly) with a "Read sector failure" error. So I guess my options are either run chkdsk, hope it works, then try cloning again (which is unlikely based on the message threads I read about this problem), or just go for the fresh install on the new drive.

    The more I think about it the more I lean toward fresh install - my Windows setup is really crazy from all these years of "tweaking" and that would be a nice way to get rid of all the baggage. Just as long as I can get my soundcard, ethernet port, dvd-rw drive and other important hardware working... But then, I keep remembering more things I'll have to deal with, like installing Apache (use it for testing php-based sites through localhost), which didn't seem hard last time but you hear all these horror stories. Manually back up all my MySQL databases to replace them, configure php, configure Eclipse PDT (which was complicated) - and those are just the website-related ones... LOL It's very daunting.

    >> Your long boot time could simply be a case of having a large number of startup items - have a look in MSCONFIG to see what's loading at startup.
    You could also have a look in the Event Viewer to see if there's any indication of what may be holding things up. <<

    I don't think it's startup items (I've got it down the bare minimum via CCleaner). Event Viewer shows an exactly 3-minute lag between Windows loading TCPIP and loading system services, so I was guessing Windows may be waiting for something to time out before continuing to load? My ISP has been very bad for the last couple of weeks (tons of "outages") and I originally assumed that was the reason for the slow startup and hang after TCPIP loads. The slow shutdown was fixed by installing the User Profile Hive Cleanup utility, but that's just masking the real problem.

    Also, Windows loads with no lag in safe mode, Diagnotstic Startup, and Selective Startup with everything enabled except System Services, so I'm pretty sure it's a System Service that's causing it. Just wasn't able to figure out which one.
     
    >> If you run "CHKDSK   C:    /R" it will force a full scan of the system drive (assuming it's the C: drive) on the next boot - you can then look in event viewer after it's run to see what the results are. <<

    I'm just afraid chkdsk will either destroy Windows (if parts of it are on bad sectors) or never finish - then I'd be even worse off, with no old drive to fall back on. The last time I ran it I think it took more than a day to finish. (I have a huge number of small files on this drive.) With a 5-year-old drive doesn't it seems wiser to just replace the drive rather than trying to fix it?

    One other thing - do you know of any guides that explain the process of starting from scratch with a brand-new drive to partition and format the drive and install Windws XP? I haven't been able to find one that explains the entire process. Do you just boot from the XP disc and it lets to partition/format from there? Do I need to detach all of the PCI cards (including the Ethernet card and sound card) from the motherboard first?

    (Sorry I'm going so far off topic)

    There is almost never any need to install 'router software' then whole point of a router is that it's a seamless interface with the outside world. Almost all such software serves only to obfuscate the actual connection with stuff that's not required for a successful and efficient internet connection.
     
    CHKDSK cannot 'destroy ' anything - all it does is correct already-existing problems (at least in theory - and if it can't do that, then you have major problems!)
     
    Installing XP from scratch is one of the easiest processes I can think of....
    for detail, try this...
     - make sure that you read it all, before committing yourself!
     

    --


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth
    Monday, August 02, 2010 9:50 PM
  • >> There is almost never any need to install 'router software' then whole point of a router is that it's a seamless interface with the outside world.

    LOL That's exactly what I thought, but the router came with an instalaltion disc..... So basically as long as I get my ethernet port working it should be able to connect to the internet?

    >> CHKDSK cannot 'destroy ' anything - all it does is correct already-existing problems (at least in theory - and if it can't do that, then you have major problems!)

    I just figured it would be safer all around to just go with the new drive, new Windows and still have the old drive as a fallback rather than run chkdsk for two days and put more stress on the old HD with the added risk of it not even working.

    >> Installing XP from scratch is one of the easiest processes I can think of....

    Yeah, I know people clean install it all the time - I'm most likely overthinking but it's better than underthinking at any rate... (2010 and I'm scared of installing Windows Xp. lol) Thank you for the link! I actually read that page before (I'm rereading now) but was looking for a second page to double check with. I found a pictorial walkthrough on about.com that shows how to do it (it's for Pro but a good guide anyway) so I think I have a good idea about it. Now I'm just preparing for the what-ifs and errors that could happen.

    >> - make sure that you read it all, before committing yourself!

    That's the thing - it's not as much of a comittment if I can go back to the old drive if I need to. I'mr eally not this much of a "noob", it's mroe the opposite - I've seen so many thigns not work correctly over the years with computers that I'm overly cautious now...

    BTW Could you recommend a good partition size for installing XP? Would 40gb be okay?
    Monday, August 02, 2010 10:34 PM
  • "minivama" wrote in message news:2987837f-7805-4f95-9443-6327b55df6ef...
    >> There is almost never any need to install 'router software' then whole point of a router is that it's a seamless interface with the outside world.

    LOL That's exactly what I thought, but the router came with an instalaltion disc..... So basically as long as I get my ethernet port working it should be able to connect to the internet?

    >> CHKDSK cannot 'destroy ' anything - all it does is correct already-existing problems (at least in theory - and if it can't do that, then you have major problems!)

    I just figured it would be safer all around to just go with the new drive, new Windows and still have the old drive as a fallback rather than run chkdsk for two days and put more stress on the old HD with the added risk of it not even working.

    >> Installing XP from scratch is one of the easiest processes I can think of....

    Yeah, I know people clean install it all the time - I'm most likely overthinking but it's better than underthinking at any rate... (2010 and I'm scared of installing Windows Xp. lol) Thank you for the link! I actually read that page before (I'm rereading now) but was looking for a second page to double check with. I found a pictorial walkthrough on about.com that shows how to do it (it's for Pro but a good guide anyway) so I think I have a good idea about it. Now I'm just preparing for the what-ifs and errors that could happen.

    >> - make sure that you read it all, before committing yourself!

    That's the thing - it's not as much of a comittment if I can go back to the old drive if I need to. I'mr eally not this much of a "noob", it's mroe the opposite - I've seen so many thigns not work correctly over the years with computers that I'm overly cautious now...

    BTW Could you recommend a good partition size for installing XP? Would 40gb be okay?

    We're getting waaay off-topic for this forum - but 40GB should be fine, so long as you move the 'My Documents' folder out to the second partition so that you can divorce data an programs.
     
    You're right that running a full chkdsk could tip a drive over the edge, if it's that close to failing - but the chances are fairly slim unless you are seeing signs of creeping failure, like a large number of bad sectors.
     
     
     

    --


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth
    Tuesday, August 03, 2010 5:53 AM
  • HELLO FRIIEND I'm looking at replacing the primary hard drive in my computer, which I originally had built for me by a local PC store in 2002. The hard drive in the computer has already been replaced once, in 2005. I have the original holographic OEM Windows XP Home "Version 2002" disc with Service Pack 1 on it. It says "For distribution with a new PC only". ------------------------------

    <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:536871559 0 0 0 415 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} -->

    For connecting to remote desktop of another computer (via internet or network) and controls.  Also connecting to VNCServer through Repeater or directly to VNCServer and a lot of other configuration options. For more details [url=http://www.abtollc.com/VNCViewer.aspx  /]VNCServer [/url]

    =========================

    Tuesday, August 03, 2010 6:27 AM
  • "macmull" wrote in message news:bb615ea7-1a36-446a-8ba2-dc5a53dc1f1e...

    HELLO FRIIEND

     

    <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:536871559 0 0 0 415 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} -->

    For connecting to remote desktop of another computer (via internet or network) and controls.  Also connecting to .......

    =========================


    Please do not spam the forum with irrelevant rubbish - it only confuses everybody!

    --


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth
    Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:26 AM
  • We're getting waaay off-topic for this forum -

    Yes, I went off topic a long time ago and felt bad about it so I'll stop now. O:-) Just to let you know, I did a 120gb partition and installed XP, but didn't activate it yet. It installed OK, but now I'm having trouble with the Ethernet port. Luckily, I can switch back to the old drive (I'm using it now) and it functions exactly as it did before, internet connection and everything, so I'm not totally lost (at least not yet).

    Thank you again for all your help - you've made this excruciating task a little less excruciating for me. :-)

    • Edited by minivama Wednesday, August 04, 2010 8:35 AM
    Wednesday, August 04, 2010 4:23 AM
  • "minivama" wrote in message news:884da4fa-1f5b-4bf6-97cb-ba4f60bdace7...
    We're getting waaay off-topic for this forum -

    Yes, I went off topic a long time ago and felt bad about it so I'll stop now. O:-) Just to let you know, I did a 120gb partition and installed XP, but didn't activate it yet. It installed OK, but now I'm having trouble with the Ethernet port. Luckily, I [i]can[/i] switch back to the old drive (I'm using it now) and it functions exactly as it did before, internet connection and everything, so I'm not totally lost (at least not yet).

    Thank you again for all your help - you've made this excruciating task a little less excruciating for me. :-)


    No problem - you need to install the drivers for the Ethernet port.
    If you have further problems with the new install, the Win XP Install forum can help -

    --


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth
    Wednesday, August 04, 2010 8:12 AM
  • >>No problem - you need to install the drivers for the Ethernet port. If you have further problems with the new install, the Win XP Install forum can help - http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/xpinstall/threads

    That's the problem - I installed the drivers but it says "A network cable is unplugged" even when the cable is plugged in. I think I will post on the XP Networking forum and see if anybody has any advice - I'm even more lost when it comes to networking.

    Thank you again Noel!!!

    Wednesday, August 04, 2010 8:39 AM
  • "minivama" wrote in message news:adda0141-850e-48c4-988e-350ae9fafe9f...

    >>No problem - you need to install the drivers for the Ethernet port. If you have further problems with the new install, the Win XP Install forum can help - http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/xpinstall/threads

    That's the problem - I installed the drivers but it says "A network cable is unplugged" even when the cable is plugged in. I think I will post on the XP Networking forum and see if anybody has any advice - I'm even more lost when it comes to networking.

    Thank you again Noel!!!

    You're welcome - good luck!

    --


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth
    Wednesday, August 04, 2010 11:02 AM
  • MS generally considers changing the motherboard to be enough to invalidate a OEM license (unless done by the manufacturer under warranty) - pretty much everything else is up for grabs, though. If you change enough stuff, you may have to re-activate, but so long as the motherboard is the same it doesn't invalidate the license (although it may invalidate the manufacturer's warranty).

    That is incorrect. What you state is not stated in any End User License Agreement (EULA) for any Microsoft OEM operating system. Flat out it is not stated. It is only stated that you may not transfer the OEM Windows license to another computer, period. If your computer breaks down, meaning it does not work similar to how it did as new you do not create a new computer by fixing it, it's still the same computer.

    Put it this way, unless you have two computers there is no way that you can transfer Windows to another computer, since you only have 1 computer! If your computer breaks down and you repair it once you are done you will still have 1 computer and additionally a pile of parts. Even if that pile of parts wasn't broken, is it enough to be an entire computer and run Windows?

    Oh, and regarding "is there a limit?" Yes their is! At one point I bought a copy of Windows XP Home from a reputable online reseller, it was certainly genuine. After about a year or two I had reinstalled it a few times -- only on the same PC -- eventually it said I had activated "too many times" and would not let me do anything further. That is why these days I advocate people preserve OEM SLP if at all possible since your unique product key is not used.
    Saturday, August 14, 2010 5:08 AM
  • "Andreas van dem Helge" wrote in message news:274f744b-46f5-4457-9fbe-f3057f9d1aef...
    MS generally considers changing the motherboard to be enough to invalidate a OEM license (unless done by the manufacturer under warranty) - pretty much everything else is up for grabs, though. If you change enough stuff, you may have to re-activate, but so long as the motherboard is the same it doesn't invalidate the license (although it may invalidate the manufacturer's warranty).

    That is incorrect. What you state is not stated in any End User License Agreement (EULA) for any Microsoft OEM operating system. Flat out it is not stated. It is only stated that you may not transfer the OEM Windows license to another computer, period. If your computer breaks down, meaning it does not work similar to how it did as new you do not create a new computer by fixing it, it's still the same computer.

    Put it this way, unless you have two computers there is no way that you can transfer Windows to another computer, since you only have 1 computer! If your computer breaks down and you repair it once you are done you will still have 1 computer and additionally a pile of parts. Even if that pile of parts wasn't broken, is it enough to be an entire computer and run Windows?

    Oh, and regarding "is there a limit?" Yes their is! At one point I bought a copy of Windows XP Home from a reputable online reseller, it was certainly genuine. After about a year or two I had reinstalled it a few times -- only on the same PC -- eventually it said I had activated "too many times" and would not let me do anything further. That is why these days I advocate people preserve OEM SLP if at all possible since your unique product key is not used.
    If you look at the many references on the MS site to the interpretation of a 'new computer' it refers generally to a change in the motherboard - which is not unreasonable in view of the fact that replacing an older motherboard will frequently mean having to change the processor as well as the RAM.
    WRT your experience with XP Home, that is not the same as other peoples' - was it an OEM or Retail? How many times on how many machines was it activated in what period?
    Did you ring the Activation center and explain the circumstances? Did you speak to a supervisor?
    Whatever - this is getting way off-topic for this forum.
     

    --


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth
    Saturday, August 14, 2010 5:24 AM
  • I've been reading through this thread as it seems close to my situation, except that my primary (sole) drive failed completely and I can no longer access it in any way.

    So now I need to re-install XP home OEM from a disk on a new drive. It is, or will be, in the same computer with its product key on the case.

    However, it is about 2004 vintage and seems a good opportunity to bring it a bit up to date. I'd like to add a DVD writer as the current box doesn't have that capability, and 512mb of RAM seems a bit low these days so I'd like to put in a bit more.

    I don't know if I'd need to update the BIOS to get it to recognise the changes, but that may be a possibility.

    I don't quite know how all this works. Is my motherboard registered somewhere with Micro$oft which will then agree or disagree with my proposals to modify other parts of my own computer?

    Thursday, December 09, 2010 3:43 PM
  • Hello ziden-xp,

    Adding RAM and a DVD writer along with replacing the failed hard disk with a new hard disk is a good way to "pep up" an otherwise older computer.

    Regarding the installation of XP, it depends upon how you are installing.  If installing from a manufacturer's recovery disc, then I would install XP first on the new hard disk drive then when that's done, add the RAM and DVD later.  The reason for this is that some manufacturer recovery discs are finicky about the hardware that they expect to encounter on the computer when they are run---any deviation from what the manufacturer supplied for that specifci model may be enough to throw the recovery disc's installation program into a tizzy and derail the process.

    On the other hand, if you are using a standard Microsoft hologrammed systembuilder/OEM installation disc, it will do a hardware enumeration as part of setup, so it would be OK IMO to install the RAM and DVD before running Setup.

    Because you have not changed the motherboard, you will not have any issues with activation or validation.

    Thursday, December 09, 2010 7:14 PM
  • dont mind me i am just a two finger weneit comes to typing and right now i am down to one with a brocken rist but i just put xp home server on this hp it is not doing to bad . could be doing better

     

     

    Tuesday, February 15, 2011 8:30 AM