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Proposing an answer
Proposing an answer
- Just a request of courtesy (I don't make or enforce the rules):
Please allow the OPs of questions and other participants time to respond to posts in the forums before proposing responses as answers to questions. If I was a moderator I would be unmarking these in a heartbeat, especially when someone is proposing their own response as an answer (which is presumptuous).
Let the OPs review the responses and mark any as answers and the moderators can handle the questions that have been abandoned. :-)
Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)- Moved byAlicia CalesMSFT, AdministratorTuesday, July 14, 2009 11:16 PMShould not be moved to off topic (From:Off-Topic Posts (Do Not Post Here))
- Moved byMartin Xie - MSFTMSFTWednesday, June 10, 2009 10:57 AMMove it to Suggestion/Feedback Forum for better support. Paul's suggestion is reasonable and seems be acceptable. Thank you for your valuable feedback! (From:Visual Basic General)
- Moved bySachinWMSFT, AdministratorMonday, July 13, 2009 12:59 PMoff topic (From:Suggestions and Feedback for the Forums)
All Replies
- I'll second that Paul. I find the "Propose As Answer" feature a little sketchy to begin with because unless the proposed answer is just clearly the correct answer (which should make it obvious to the OP once reviewed) it is only as good as the question is concise and how it's been expanded upon through dialog... which suggests the OP really should decide this through review and/or trial anyhow.
The potential benefit to the OP of having an unsolicited adviser make a recommendation is far outweighed by the continued abuse of the feature as you have noted. Thanks for bringing it up -- it's bothered me as well. - The compensated moderators are performance rated on the percentage of questions answered. If on one visit, they see a proposed answer and on the next visit it is still there, they will mark that post as an answer. The proposed answer mechanism was a key desire of these moderators.
Just a request of courtesy (I don't make or enforce the rules):
Please allow the OPs of questions and other participants time to respond to posts in the forums before proposing responses as answers to questions. If I was a moderator I would be unmarking these in a heartbeat, especially when someone is proposing their own response as an answer (which is presumptuous).
Let the OPs review the responses and mark any as answers and the moderators can handle the questions that have been abandoned. :-)
Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
I find the posibility to propose an answer and the possibility for an OP to unpropose an answer a very fine mechanisme. I found this a real improvement in the forums.
However, maybe I miss something. Like most MVP's I have always avoid the forums. I see now that they work with this kind of improvements very well.
Therefore maybe I can better ask you to explain for me why they made these improvements?
What I find anoying is that many people are sending text for asking to mark a reply as anwer, while there is for that a fine mechanisme.
Often I see this done as there is only a question for more information.- Edited byCor LigthertMVPFriday, June 05, 2009 2:37 PM
- Edited byCor LigthertMVPFriday, June 05, 2009 2:34 PM
I'll second that Paul. I find the "Propose As Answer" feature a little sketchy to begin with because unless the proposed answer is just clearly the correct answer (which should make it obvious to the OP once reviewed) it is only as good as the question is concise and how it's been expanded upon through dialog... which suggests the OP really should decide this through review and/or trial anyhow.
The potential benefit to the OP of having an unsolicited adviser make a recommendation is far outweighed by the continued abuse of the feature as you have noted. Thanks for bringing it up -- it's bothered me as well.
You simply forget for what these forums are also made for, not to give help for one person, but to help many persons because the answers become in the search engines.
Therefore something what is marked by an OP can be a very wrong answer in the search engines.
The MSFT's should at least have a little change to check this.- Cor,
I don't have an answer to your question since I am not a Microsoft person nor am I a mind reader.
All that I know is that this feature is being abused. If everyone marked their own response as a proposed answer then it would be chaotic and confusing. In many instances questions are asked that appear to have an obvious answer only to find out that the apparent obvious answer isn't what the OP desired.
My primary goal (as it has always been dating back to the Microsoft CompuServe forums, Microsoft NNTP newsgroups and now MSDN and other web forums) has been to provide the OP (and others) with information that will help him/her resolve their development questions or problems. I'm considerably less concered with who receives credit for it, although I'm sure that each of us who participates takes pride in being acknowledged for our contributions.
I certainly think it's fair to propose the responses of other partcipants as answers to the posts, but I usually allow for about a day or so for others to respond. If several days have elapsed and no one else has replied then it would probably make sense to offer up (mark) your response as an answer and then allow the moderators to make the final decision. Does that makes sense? :-)
Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic) - I tend to use this feature if the OP replied to my response with "that fixed it" or "that did it" and a day later still have not marked my answer as the answer. My thought is that they will then get an email with the message about a proposed answer and then then hopefully come back and mark it answered.
That is why I like the feature. But I agree that it tends to be abused.
www.insteptech.com
We are volunteers and ask only that if we are able to help you, that you mark our reply as your answer. THANKS!- Edited byDeborahKMVPFriday, June 05, 2009 3:23 PM
- I agree with the propose as answer being a little sketchy. Only the OP can actually know if it's the answer or not.
Also, see my sig.
Mods - Please do not mark my posts as answered. It is extremely rude. You have no idea if you've answered my question. - Hmm. I think these add'l posts bring me into the "gray" zone with this discussion and I'm clearer now where I stand. I think it is a good and valuable feature that should remain but that it has been poorly implemented (in terms of education) among the general user base. This is pretty much what Paul is getting at and prudent explanations of use by Deborah and Cor underscore the gap between proper use and abuse. The take away for me is that it is a valuable tool for moderators to gain faster visiblilty of threads that are nearing completion but haven't closed yet. General users do not know (or possibly care) about the unwritten rules, thus making a good tool become a burden to some. I think there will always be that segment who abuse but perhpas better education toward those who just don't get it but want to do the right thing would be a good thing. (Hint: make a sticky thread)
@Bleg, at the risk of contradicting myself, I completely disagree with your sig's intention because most times a moderator does have an idea that it has answered your question. Any well-stated question should be somehwat universally understood. It is not rude -- it's proper management of a forum for moderators to close threads that have received seemingly good responses but the OP has lingered or given no indication of the thread's status relating to that good response. I don't find that moderators jump the gun and abuse the answering privelege. I do see MANY users who just neglect to follow up. If you disagree with the moderator's closing then reopen it (maybe give an explanation as to why while you're at it). If the moderator closes it again after that then there may be something to gripe about. For those active members who care about the reward system it is gratifying to see that someone cares about giving credit where credit's due.
And as for comensated moderators being performance-rated. Yikes! There's where the potential for abuse could be introduced (especially if there is no audit system in place as I suspect). That said, I'm very happy with all the moderators active in this forum. - Interesting topic Paul
I agree that it seems many times I see a "Proposed as Answer" when it may not be workable or there is a maybe better or a more efficient way.
Sometimes there is other info the OP has left out and further clarification is needed. What worked for our app may not work based on other conditions in the OP's app.
I go along with Deborah - if the OP responds with "That worked" or something similar, then I will mark the "Propose as Answer".
Otherwise I don't know enough (both about the OP's app or my own limited knowledge about writing code) to mark solutions I provide as the proposed answer. Even when I'm almost sure it is the correct solution. - I'm in agreement Paul. As far as I'm concerned, that option can be removed because it is being grossly abused. For example, I've seen a ridiculous response (to a legitimate question) comparing russians and americans in red square, and the person that made the post had marked it as the proposed answer.
I believe that marking one's own post as a proposed answer is not only presumptuous, but it is a high form of conceit! In other forums I frequent, such an option is not available, and rightly so, in my opinion. Before this latest round of posts being marked as proposed answers, I would more often than not, ignore threads that had a proposed answer. And I don't think I was alone in doing that. Now, I will quickly scan through such marked threads to see whose post is marked as a proposed answer, then offer up any help I can.
Hopefully, the use of that option will be defined in detail by the powers-that-be....or maybe it will be completely removed. As BLeg said in his post, and I completely agree with his statement, only the OP can determine if a post does in fact answer the question to his/her satisfaction.
Doug Paul,
You know my activities in the years in the Microsoft dotNet newsgroups, without any points and any counted answers.
I don't like this mechanisme of points and making from a reply an answer by the OP at all and it is certainly not from the culture I was grown up (I don't mean my state (Country) by that).
I would 've liked it as not any OP could make from his question "the" answer. I am only a few weeks active here but have seen things made "the" answers by the OP that would have in any newsgroups endless replies that it was not "the" answer. Here that possibiltie does not exist, and so we get a lot of "xxxx" on Interenet and especially MSDN which is completely a disaster for those searching for an answer for their problem.
Inside this system, I think that it is good to tell if your reply is meant as a proposed answer or something you are not sure about or everything else by using the mechanisme to tell that you meant the reply as an answer and then simply state it using the mechanisme.
You know me that I have never paid any attention on unwritten rules or anything like that which only stop progress. I will not make here an anology, but you know that I can make many.
However, I would like it much better as only a moderator could make from a proposed answser an answer for MSDN and not an OP. (And I think then also that you and me cannot be a moderator, we like it to much to help)
Cor- Deborah,
I got the idea that Propose has different meanings in English. I use it like I do in England.
Nothing more then an suggestion for an answer which can always be denied (completely as the mechanisme works).
Now I get the idea from the answers from Paul and you, that in American English it is probably more used as an intend, which let me then understand your both's sceptic against this.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/results.asp?searchword=Proposed&x=28&y=8
Cor - I think of propose as you do, a suggested answer which can also be denied. Hence the ability to undo a proposed answer.
I also think that several of the responses here that recommend that only the OP should mark a question as answer would only work in a "perfect world".
In the real world there are many factors involved. As others have said, there are most likely a large percentage of people that ask a question and never come back to see the answer. Or come back to see the answer, say thank you, and never come back again to mark it as answered.
So unless we could ensure that everyone would be trained appropriately, I don't think we can assume that all of the OPs will behave like we would like them to.
This all also brings up another question. I understood that part of the purpose of a public forum like this was to provide answers not only to the OP, but also to anyone following later. So even if the OP had some weird issue that was causing the solution not to work for them, would it make sense to mark the answer as answered if it would be the correct answer for the 99% of other people that would read the issue?
www.insteptech.com
We are volunteers and ask only that if we are able to help you, that you mark our reply as your answer. THANKS! However, I would like it much better as only a moderator could make from a proposed answser an answer for MSDN and not an OP. (And I think then also that you and me cannot be a moderator, we like it to much to help)
Cor
Hi Cor,
Just do like I do. Pretend you're in the NNTP newsgroups (w/o all the sniping and pettiness you see in Classic VB groups of course) where there are no right or wrong answers. Just a lot folks trying to help out.
I'm not big on the points system either, which is why I abandoned Experts Exchange many years ago. The DevX forums were the only web forums I participated in for quite some time and I'm still a moderator over there and there are no points or marked answers.
Like I said, the OP asks the question and he/she gets to mark the answer(s) if any. That's the way Microsoft set it up. The moderators (some of who are MVPs) take care of the abandoned questions, either by choosing the answers they feel are appropriate or by changing the question to a comment as a result of lack of answers and lack of follow-up by the OP.
Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)- Im glad Paul created this discussion on proposed as answer mentality. I made that comment yesterday with unrelated replied to OP question.
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vbgeneral/thread/c3b24a76-413d-4b68-bc1f-0b3ed2800f37
kaymaf
I hope this helps, if that is what you want, just mark it as answer so that we can move on Im glad Paul created this discussion on proposed as answer mentality. I made that comment yesterday with unrelated replied to OP question.
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vbgeneral/thread/c3b24a76-413d-4b68-bc1f-0b3ed2800f37
kaymaf
I hope this helps, if that is what you want, just mark it as answer so that we can move on
Even I'd noticed [ and sometimes felt bit angry ] about ^ kindof things I noticed in every other post. Being a new guy I kept mum but since Paul has started a discussion I think I can put up my words.
It feels pathetic when someone replies after you, replies something weird,unrelated or even frames your reply in different words and Proposes it as answer. Newbies, without knowing 'how this system actually works' marks their replies as answers. Its not about the points ... but certainly about pride.
Thanks
- Omie
You are so fat, the recursive function computing your fatness causes a stack overflow :\- It wouldn't be half bad if the mods marked the threads as answered in a better way.
The point of the sig goes along with the purpose of the topic. I've created threads in here where a mod has replied and then marked their own answer as a reply immediately after they've posted it, within a day or two of the original question. By no means is the thread dead and, as the OP, I don't even have a chance to read the answer to agree or not. Not once have I read one of my own threads that was marked as an answer by a mod and found that it was actually the answer. I've had to unmark it every time to keep the thread where it should be. In addition to that, the way I search through my own threads (because I generally have 3-4 outstanding questions at a time) is by the state of their answer. If a mod has unjustly marked it as answered, I'll skip over it and forget about the question and move on to something else (I have a lot of development that needs doing) even though it's still there. Lastly, often the "answer" isn't even an answer. It's just 5-6 links to stuff that just wastes my time and has nothing to do with what I'm asking.
Mods - Please do not mark my posts as answered. It is extremely rude. You have no idea if you've answered my question. It wouldn't be half bad if the mods marked the threads as answered in a better way.
The point of the sig goes along with the purpose of the topic. I've created threads in here where a mod has replied and then marked their own answer as a reply immediately after they've posted it, within a day or two of the original question. By no means is the thread dead and, as the OP, I don't even have a chance to read the answer to agree or not. Not once have I read one of my own threads that was marked as an answer by a mod and found that it was actually the answer. I've had to unmark it every time to keep the thread where it should be. In addition to that, the way I search through my own threads (because I generally have 3-4 outstanding questions at a time) is by the state of their answer. If a mod has unjustly marked it as answered, I'll skip over it and forget about the question and move on to something else (I have a lot of development that needs doing) even though it's still there. Lastly, often the "answer" isn't even an answer. It's just 5-6 links to stuff that just wastes my time and has nothing to do with what I'm asking.
Mods - Please do not mark my posts as answered. It is extremely rude. You have no idea if you've answered my question.
Hi BLeg,
I have not looked at your threads but I guess you must be asking some really complicated questions if that is the case?
Personally I do not mind if a moderator marks one of my repies as the ANSWER if,
in my view, the original question was very easy or simple for me to answer, and I know that my code works.
I am not trying to show off or be big headed here as I do not know everything about Vb.Net,
VISUAL STUDIO or / and the EXPRESS EDITION. I guess no one can profess to know everything
about Vb.Net as there CLASSes and controls made by other companies, other than Microsoft.
Even Microsoft employees will not know about all of these, I guess, as there are many 3rd party companies
that write add-ins for VISUAL STUDIO.
Regards,
John
I got the idea that Propose has different meanings in English. I use it like I do in England.
Nothing more then an suggestion for an answer which can always be denied (completely as the mechanisme works).
Now I get the idea from the answers from Paul and you, that in American English it is probably more used as an intend, which let me then understand your both's sceptic against this.
A person asks the question "How do I declare an Integer variable?".
Someone replies, "Hello, you have an interesting way of typing!". << this is NOT AN ANSWER , it is merely a response ...very bad and off-topic, but just a response.
Another person replies, "Dim myVar As Integer = 0". << this IS AN ANSWER because it provides a possible solution to the question.
The concepts of a response and an answer are the same in the UK or in the US. This is just the way I interpret the meanings for this forum. If I'm wrong, I apologize.
Doug- There is still another situation which is mostly ignored:
Assume for a second that a user asks a specific question and a correct answer has been given to him but he does not understand it or he finds it too complicate. So, this reply would not be marked as a correct answer (even though it was a correct answer); ... instead the OP checks an answer which might solve his problem for the moment but the technique used to accomplish it is wrong ... - ... would it now be the right thing to do to leave that 'bad technique' marked as correct answer or should it get unmarked and the correct one marked instead?
Well, sure, a bit off-topic but it also applies to the questin "Should I mark my post as proposed answer or not?".
Maybe the best way:
Let the forum developers add a tiny little 'non-feature': remove the "PROPOSE AS ANSWER" button for the poster's own posts ... :-) - i posted something similar with one of my threads.. the apology to forum members... don't pay attention to most of it, just the 'to all new members' part.
to tell you the truth Paul P Clement IV, these guys won't listen.. here's proof!
this is not a actual thread, this is just something i have to state.
over 12 hours ago, i ended up acting like a jerk by using the CAPITALIZED TEXT as an answer in a form of shouting my response.. so far, this forum and the forum members that i constantly see supplying answers, are, and have been so faithful to the ms forum about making sure their responses are a solution to whoever asks a question, that i feel so offended by using such text, andt i wish my apology to be accepted..
i do not ask for a reply/response, all i ask for is for the respect i have been receiving if it has been denied since my last thread.(deleted the bad stuff from it).. good stuff ms..
to all new members, respect the forum member and supply a defined question, to the limit defined. to all members that mark their own replies as answers, that sux.. some code does not work for some one who asks the question that you reply too, due to maybe a forgotten dot, import, &, or whatever.. wait till the member or another memeber marks the reply as the answer.. quit trying to bogart the answer ranks.. hmm..
again, apologies, do respect my threads as if i never did offend, if i did.
p.s. sorry ms.visual basic general forum for such a thread, i just had to define my hurt for such a great forum.. with all respect for ms first, and vb second, who cares who's third,
trujade...........
please do not reply. the thread views should be my response..
if you can't find it here,
,although, i doubt it.
did they listen not to reply? noooooooooo... lol.. (good job guys);o)
as about proposing your own answer as a answer, that just smells like the ....!, you fill the blank in, if you think you got the right answer..
otherwise, maybe, i just want the .... , so how can you propose that as my answer? or maybe just one dot?. if you're not sure, EXACTLY , what the questioneer, needs for a answer, EXACTLY, don't propose.. alot of divorces happen that way.
if you want to know about me listening, just ask kaymaf about me and my
, 
, 
, 
's...
propose that as a answer, and see if i don't delete the post, manually!
trujade...
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run
7 ' I kept mum'
hahahahahhahah.. hah.. that's a good one..
- Omie
You are so fat, the recursive function computing your fatness causes a stack overflow :\
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7- how can i propose that as a answer??
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7
not saying anything... alot of wrongs done that way... did i just say something? maybe i should propose it as a answer...Not once have I read one of my own threads that was marked as an answer by a mod and found that it was actually the answer .
trujade...
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7
if op is the person posting the question, read on.
However, I would like it much better as only a moderator could make from a proposed answser an answer for MSDN and not an OP. (And I think then also that you and me cannot be a moderator, we like it to much to help)
Cor
'i somewhat disagree.. if the person posting the question, decides they have their answer from testing out the code, no matter how bad of a hack job code it might be, then they have their answer, and all of us can move on to the next unanswered question.'
if op means something else, then someone please, propose this as a answer! i don't want to get in trouble proposing to my self.. is that legal anyways? hmmm..
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7- ... would it now be the right thing to do to leave that 'bad technique' marked as correct answer or should it get unmarked and the correct one marked instead?
that's why we need a meeting with the moderators.. it is our forum after all, right?
i won't be there, i'm just trying to get my response marked..
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7
that is not the correct answer.. sorry, i'm a foreigner by birth also.. (not really sure what intend means, but it's still wrong.. no check mark for you! good day.that in American English it is probably more used as an intend,
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7- here's a marked answer for a visual basic beginner:
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vbgeneral/thread/bfbaf662-a495-4ee3-8485-b9542a9dad84
now if you were a beginner, would you know what that code actually did? wasn't me that marked my answer, and i still can't figure it out today. and i progressed quite a bit with vb'in'..
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7 - trujade said:
that's why we need a meeting with the moderators.. it is our forum after all, right? ...
That is where you're wrong!Most people seem to make the mistake to see a forum, especially their own posts, as their property once they contribute to it! No matter how often you post nor reply - ... you're only a guest in the MSDN FORUMS house; you further have to follow house rules. The MDN Forums are provided to help you and giving you are platform for you to help others; however, you do not own it, so, it is not your form nor my forum nor our forum ... !
AND: This is way off-topic !!! :-) - propose that as a answer...
it was a opinion to get the moderator to listen to the forum members ideas about their forum.. it is not our property, it is our forum. we answer the questions, not microsoft, therefore, it is the member's forum, so we should have a say so..
just a say so.. not trying to create a corporation out of this..
trujade..
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7
do you ever pay attention to the threads and how off topic they are answered sometimes? that's where i learned how to reply.. guess i need to repropose my proposition, or maybe look towards different available options to move on with, other than none.
AND: This is way off-topic !!! :-)
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7
Trujade,---- that in American English it is probably more used as an intend,
-- that is not the correct answer.. sorry, i'm a foreigner by birth also.. (not really sure what intend means, but it's still wrong.. no check mark for you! good day. ,
Now I get the idea from the answers from Paul and you, that in American English it is probably more used as an intend,
Will you please be so kind not to quoute messages in a way that they get a complete different meaning.- Trujade,
There is no answer as this was posted as a comment.
BTW, thanks for your comments but is all the silliness necessary? Don't annoy the people who may help you in the future. :-)
Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic) - just thought i'd loosen things up a bit, since all that was needed said, was pretty much said. plus, are you calling me silly?
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7 - Now why would I call you silly when your name is trujade? ;-)
Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic) - Paul,
This message thread: with its misquoting, mixing up answers with proposed answers, replies to persons, who did not made the text because cascading is not understood, shows exactly why I think it is right to use the "proposed answer".
In my current idea it would make everybody more easier to use this feature "proposed answer" in the future and to mark something as a proposed answer, as it in your idea can state that, you don't tell with that, that it's an answer; That cans a Mod do.
However, I find that nobody can tell that his own reply is a "real answer" for MSDN (because that is the reason for this feature). I have sofar seen this often done by OP's and sometimes by a Mod. You know that answers are securely checked by regulars in good newsgroups. Here that possibility is not available and therefore we have to do as much as possible with all the tools Microsoft has given to us.
I try to answer (like in newsgroups) to get an answer right for others in future, then to give an answer that is from past. With this "proposing mechanism" and good MSFT's as Mod like in this forum, this gives I have seen now the best result, while I was in the beginning skeptic about that.
Therefore, why won't you try it, it hurts nobody, than those who cannot stand the evolution and want to go on in their own tradition.
As forever in discussion threads,
Just my opinion,
Cor- Edited byCor LigthertMVPSaturday, June 06, 2009 4:18 AM
me also..
As forever in discussion threads,
Just my opinion,
Cor
trujade
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7- @ Cor
You need to read Doug's last post so you will understand the difference between an answer and a response. The majority of your posts fall into the category of response, and a lot of them make no sense at all or contain nothing that helps the person that asked the question. Marking such posts as a proposed answer is just plain wrong. I don't use that option and never will, even though I do understand the difference between an answer and a response.
It's also been said that threads having a proposed answer are more often skipped by most people. It prevents people from getting adequate help because, more often than not, a thread marked as having a proposed answer, will be skipped by most people. That's just another sad thing about that worthless option.
@ Cor
You need to read Doug's last post so you will understand the difference between an answer and a response. The majority of your posts fall into the category of response, and a lot of them make no sense at all or contain nothing that helps the person that asked the question. Marking such posts as a proposed answer is just plain wrong. I don't use that option and never will, even though I do understand the difference between an answer and a response.
It's also been said that threads having a proposed answer are more often skipped by most people. It prevents people from getting adequate help because, more often than not, a thread marked as having a proposed answer, will be skipped by most people. That's just another sad thing about that worthless option.
Jim,
Then tell my why this proposed post feature is for. Although I don't use it forever as you acquse me from, only if I think the reply can state as an complete answer on Internet. Exactly as you write, I state the replies from others also as a supposed answer, with the reason not to have to check everytime if there is maybe an answer in a message thread and can skip it the next time. As the OP simply unpropose it as he thinks that the answer does not fit him, then the mechanisme is fine.
By the way, I see you don't use more options from this forums, I assume this is a reply to me, however, you have given this as a reply to Paul.
As I stated in my reply to Paul more or less, I don't look at tradition, I want the most efficient way.
Cor- While reading all the comments and opinions about the PROPOSED ANSWER feature, I am tending to believe that this feature is just not working out! Too many forum members have too many different opinions on what this feature is intended for.
The most efficient way would be if a reply proposed as answer is only visible to moderators, so, they can quickly mark a proposed answer post as answer. That way we wouldn't have this discussion. And btw, the OP still can mark a reply as answer ... !
The HELP says nothing about the PROPOSED ANSWER feature, so, it seems to be WILD WILD WEST ! :-)
You never should mark your own post as answer but if you think someone else's reply answered the OP's question - only that way it really makes sense the way it is now. And: you won't get points for marking your own posts as proposed answer either, so, no point in doing that! :-)- Edited byEarl Tut Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:24 AM
- we all had to put something on the table in order to create something.after all that stuff got thrown together, Junner2oo3, pieced something worth paying attention to.
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7 - Edited bytrujade Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:32 AMtried to relieve the tension..;o)
By the way, I see you don't use more options from this forums, I assume this is a reply to me, however, you have given this as a reply to Paul.
As I stated in my reply to Paul more or less, I don't look at tradition, I want the most efficient way.
You assume correctly since I included " @ Cor " in my post. I typed it myself and did not use the quote button. You want the "most efficient way" ?? Then, why would you want to make the OP do MORE work by ALWAYS having to unmark your "proposed as answer" posts? That's NOT an efficient use of the forum!me also..
Jim_T, you should change your name to Jim_Tough..
trujade
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7
By the way, I see you don't use more options from this forums, I assume this is a reply to me, however, you have given this as a reply to Paul.
As I stated in my reply to Paul more or less, I don't look at tradition, I want the most efficient way.
You assume correctly since I included " @ Cor " in my post. I typed it myself and did not use the quote button. You want the "most efficient way" ?? Then, why would you want to make the OP do MORE work by ALWAYS having to unmark your "proposed as answer" posts? That's NOT an efficient use of the forum!
Jim,
No there is a while a cascade possibility in the Microsoft forums, that makes it possible to put a reply direct beneath under the reply of somebody else which makes replying easier, you don't have to put in my name in now you are replying all the time to Paul instead to me.
Therefore about your other reply which was then in the same reply line with this answer, why are you bother so much about that proposed answer.
It is up to you to ignore it, it is up to me to use it (not only by setting it, but also to see if there is maybe a proposed answer in or that somebody like me simple has asked for more information, if there are proposed answers I first look at those and start not to read everytime 20 replies again).
Cor- i still can't find that propose as answer button for this post..
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7 - Nice Discussion :)I am also against of marking own post as proposed answer. I did that at the beginning myself when I was very new to this forum. I was going well(some days, I think a week or so) with that, but sometime later I found I was not not really addressing the real problem of the OP because questions were not clear or my assumption were wrong. Most of the time, when we post an answer, we think that should be an answer, thats why we post it, but it might not always be true.I have seen in suggestion forums, request from Non MSFT moderator to remove self proposed or not allow self reply as a proposed answer, but developer are not very keen to change this feature, there must be some advantage of doing so, otherwise it would have been removed long time ago. So whatever the intention is, it would be good to get the clear reason of allowing user to propose there own answer.I do propose answer of other users sometime when the answer is obvious and I also agree that user should be able to propose their own answer when OP just thanks without closing thread or asks a question and never comes back. It will also be good if all of us active user here propose answer for other users in such case since that looks better(before s/he him/herself proposes ;) ) that would greatly help moderators to save their time and close thread with best answer.Thanks to all for their views, have a great time ahead
Arjun Paudel - @trujade:
There is no PROPOSE AS ANSWER button in a DISCUSSION THREAD !!!
@Cor:
Not everyone is using the THREADED FORUM VIEW - even me not; I hate that kind of look!
@Jim & Cor:
Why don't you 2 get a room? On your way out take trujade with you, LOL! :-)
@ALL:
This thread started off really interesting but has gotten pointless with all those off-topic stuff ... ! - Arjun Paudel --
junner2oo3--roflmao (glad to be of service)
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7 - Arjun,
I am not as pigheaded as I look maybe from my posts.
I thought let's give Pauls proposal a change and not mark my own answers . In the hope Paul will follow my proposal.
The result I can see, I marked an obvious correct answer from somebody (related to the question not all kind of new things the Op asks). That person told that the proposed answer posibility must not be used.
I've answered a question where is no other answer possible related to the question about Trim but did not mark it as proposed answer, now we see an array of answers about the Trim including yours.
Should the Op make the decission which are right the answers for MSDN and mark them all, no one until now is in fact wrong.
I've seen trujade marked his question as answer where the reply is from the years of Windows 3.11, nice for those people finding this answer on MSDH in future. I had not marked my reply as proposed answer because it was about Windows nd that I don't have installed.
I still keep the opinion that the proposed answer is the solution to this.
Despite all behaviour by some on old traditions, I think I am back in the old Netscape days reading those.
Cor - Cor! You are right re trim, but I just wanted to emphasize string.Trim only there, instead of Trim Function there, just a suggestion, and if you read the question again, OP has already used Trim since he has mentioned that in First postin 2nd post, the actual codeTrim(Me.ClientNameTextBox.Text)But he has not used it correct way, that means bdbodger has catched the error, and my addition is to emphasize string.Trim, thats all not Trim()
Arjun Paudel - Arjun,
I had read that given text see bellow not as trimming
"Ive tried timming but ive had no luck."
You can as well do something as
dim ind as integer = myString.LastIndexOf(" ")
dim mystring = myString.Substring(0,ind)
It is trimming but it fails as there is no space at the end of the string.
(While this probably trims only the last space) ;-)
And that way was as I have interpretted that sentence
Cor - in 2nd post, the actual codeTrim(Me.ClientNameTextBox.Text)
Which would have even gone better and more readable as I had proposed the answer and the OP had unproposed it.
Now because all of the other replies I have missed that one.
Cor Paul,
...
Therefore, why won't you try it, it hurts nobody, than those who cannot stand the evolution and want to go on in their own tradition.
As forever in discussion threads,
Just my opinion,
Cor
Hi Cor,
I don't have an issue with using the feature. But like any tool it can be abused and has been abused. I do use it, judiciously, to mark the responses of others as proposed answers. However, I will not mark my own responses as proposed answers. I don't feel it's appropriate. I think that all I was asking for was that contributors employ good judgement when using the feature.
As far as Microsoft moderation is concerned, I don't have any issues here. I don't look at every question posted of course, but from my experience the moderators in the Visual Basic forums are very patient and very helpful in general.
Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)i still can't find that propose as answer button for this post..
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7
I hid it just for you. ;-)
Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
I second this one too, good track record of moderators in Visual Basic forums though I can see some issue in suggestion forum against other forum's moderatorsAs far as Microsoft moderation is concerned, I don't have any issues here. I don't look at every question posted of course, but from my experience the moderators in the Visual Basic forums are very patient and very helpful in general.
Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
Arjun Paudel
Paul!i still can't find that propose as answer button for this post..
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7
I hid it just for you. ;-)
Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)Can you not hide propose as answer for all threads in this forum? ;-)
Arjun Paudel- Arjun,
You got it, as everybody who don't want proposed answers starts their question as a discussion, then it can not be proposed an not be marked as an answer.
:-)
Cor Paul!
Arjun,Can you not hide propose as answer for all threads in this forum? ;-)
Arjun Paudel
LOL! Nope I can only hide it for my posts. :-(
Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)- So Paul -- bringing this back to the start -- the variety of use and complaints about this feature that your thread has evoked, for me, emphasizes the point I made earlier: It is a feature made of good intentions but poorly deployed because there are as many opinions on how it should be used as there are people using it and there are no restrictions placed upon it. It's a recipe for disaster for those of us who care about how the forum runs.
@Cor
I've seen trujade marked his question as answer where the reply is from the years of Windows 3.11, nice for those people finding this answer on MSDH in future. I had not marked my reply as proposed answer because it was about Windows nd that I don't have installed.
i only use vb2oo8.net, so if the code works in it, and i can understand it , i use it . and i'm not programming in the future here... hmm.. maybe i should design a program to time travel in the future that only works on code from the past..
sometimes i marked my own answers as answers due to getting the code from a forum member's answer and having to do a slight readjustment, that might not be too visible from overlooking the code, but it does improve it to get it to work properly.. this helps viewer to get the right code, instead of adding another post, mark that as answer, and have the fix added there.. i usually just view the first marked answer, and if i find that interesting, i view the rest of the post.
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7- not funny hiding stuff.. i still can't find it...
trujade....
thanx guys for the giggles. this was turning into a battle royale for a second.
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7 I agree with the propose as answer being a little sketchy. Only the OP can actually know if it's the answer or not.
Also, see my sig.
Mods - Please do not mark my posts as answered. It is extremely rude. You have no idea if you've answered my question.
I hereby second this motion. It is in bad taste for one to propose his response as the answer. As a beginner, I am aware that OPs are best suited to decide if and when there questions are answered and the best response to their post.
I am proposing that the "Propose As Answer" button be removed completely.
However, it is alright for Moderators to mark a given response as the answer if in their opinion that particular response is the correct answer and the OP has failed or neglected to mark it as the answer after a reasonable lenght of time is passed.
----------------------
Moderator: I mistakenly pressed the "Report As Abuse" while trying to respond to Bleg's post. Please ignore/delete it (ie, my report)
Only performance counts!I agree with the propose as answer being a little sketchy. Only the OP can actually know if it's the answer or not.
Also, see my sig.
Mods - Please do not mark my posts as answered. It is extremely rude. You have no idea if you've answered my question.
I hereby second this motion. It is in bad taste for one to propose his response as the answer. As a beginner, I am aware that OPs are best suited to decide if and when their questions are answered and the best response to their post.
I am proposing that the "Propose As Answer" button be removed completely.
However, it is alright for Moderators to mark a given response as the answer if in their opinion that particular response is the correct answer and the OP has failed or neglected to mark it as the answer after a reasonable lenght of time is passed.
----------------------
Moderator: I mistakenly pressed the "Report As Abuse" while trying to respond to Bleg's post. Please ignore/delete it (ie, my report)
Only performance counts!- Edited bySylva Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:34 PMcorrection
----------------------
Moderator: I mistakenly pressed the "Report As Abuse" while trying to respond to Bleg's post. Please ignore/delete it (ie, my report)
lol.. now that's a good one...
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7 I am proposing that the "Propose As Answer" button be removed completely.
i disagree..
proposing a answer should remain. in many cases, if you read the question and question title , and there is a answer that suits the thread, then it should be marked as proposed. of course, by someone else.
'me also...
trujade..'
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7- I believe this forum was created for learning purpose and the points you earned is the way of compensate your efforts and time you spent to response to questions. But now too many abuses of the forum, medal is the main reason for this selfish interest. This MSDN forum needs a clean up for illegal pattern of earning points. if you noticed some strange behavior in the forum , you have to raise the issue, like NOBUGZ did in this thread http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/csharpgeneral/thread/d661c486-9753-4996-a711-c53a3c0bb8a7
kaymaf
I hope this helps, if that is what you want, just mark it as answer so that we can move on - A LIVE CASE:
Should I propose my answers now as answers?:
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vblanguage/thread/d960440c-9e85-4442-ba46-41331a1ae3f1 - no need..
one of those proposed answers should be correct.
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7 I believe this forum was created for learning purpose and the points you earned is the way of compensate your efforts and time you spent to response to questions. But now too many abuses of the forum, medal is the main reason for this selfish interest. This MSDN forum needs a clean up for illegal pattern of earning points. if you noticed some strange behavior in the forum , you have to raise the issue, like NOBUGZ did in this thread http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/csharpgeneral/thread/d661c486-9753-4996-a711-c53a3c0bb8a7
Absolutely, I am not calling by name, but one of the top contributor(not in top 1 now ;) in vb forum was also caught as well in the beginning, but he changed his behaviour later after some warning
kaymaf
I hope this helps, if that is what you want, just mark it as answer so that we can move on
Arjun Paudel- Edited byArjun PaudelMVPSunday, June 07, 2009 12:11 PM
HMMMMPF!
I spent a good hour or more getting some guys LINQ to XML working. After several back and forth I finally figured out what he was asking and posted *complete* working code.
He changed ONE LINE to be culture neutral and marked HIS ANSWER as the answer.
THAT makes me feel *VERY*unappreciated!
So I marked my answer as a proposed answer as well.
Based on all of the info here ... is that then bad form?
www.insteptech.com
We are volunteers and ask only that if we are able to help you, that you mark our reply as your answer. THANKS!
In this instance, probably not. I've had something similar like that happen to me as well. I just let it go, but I did commit that users name to memory (ironically, he has posted to this thread).
Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)HMMMMPF!
There are many threads like that, but self proposing does not help in many cases, some understands some needs direction and some are stubborn, they dont care once they get answer. And answer mark icon overwrites self propose icon in thread title so moderator never gets attention of that issue.
I spent a good hour or more getting some guys LINQ to XML working. After several back and forth I finally figured out what he was asking and posted *complete* working code.
He changed ONE LINE to be culture neutral and marked HIS ANSWER as the answer.
THAT makes me feel *VERY*unappreciated!
So I marked my answer as a proposed answer as well.
Based on all of the info here ... is that then bad form?
www.insteptech.com
We are volunteers and ask only that if we are able to help you, that you mark our reply as your answer. THANKS!
Arjun Paudel- not to be a meanie, but it does happen quite a bit. there were cases where i was helped and i ended up posting the code, just a minor readjustment from the code received, as the answer.. this is only because the code received did not work properly, so my adjustment fixed it and i had to mark it as a answer in order for anyone else searching for a answer to a similar question, to get a correct response.. or, there were other replies added that ended up fixing the code, but it was not the entire code, in one reply, just bits and pieces.
if i don't see the correct answer in one reply from a thread, i move on. i'm sure others do as well.. my apologies, if it was me that did so Paul..
trujade.
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run7 - For once, the following statement is an actual, working apology....
@DeborahK : I am sorry that you feel that way. btw, your book was recommended today. I appreciate your posts, although I don't work in the areas that you do, that's probably only because I don't have your book, right? IMHO, your input is very valuable; I am sure that my code gets stolen far less often than yours does. Seriously, please feel better about it as soon as possible. Thanks.
Honestly, I am only now grasping the concept's relevance. The comment about weighing a response by the badges and/or points probably makes sense to a newcomer, but overall, it seems to cause more grief than anything else. (That being human nature, not the fault of the system.)
I have started marking posts as helpful, and even proposing answers, but...that is only my opinion, and not likely helpful to anyone. However, I have noticed some of you leaving excellent posts in threads that the OP subsequently abandoned. Those marks are important, I think...also, the ones I just proposed/marked as helpful for a moderator that does not mark their own are important.- Edited byjinzai Tuesday, June 09, 2009 4:47 PMfumble fingers
- Thanks for the kind words, jinzai.
I take great pleasure in figuring out how to use our set of .NET tools to solve problems. So there is a thrill simply from getting things working. But like many of you, I work alone. So it is *great* to feel appreciated from time to time with someone saying "yes! that fixed my problem" or just taking the time to mark it as a helpful answer.
www.insteptech.com
We are volunteers and ask only that if we are able to help you, that you mark our reply as your answer. THANKS! trujade -
I have seen OPs in this case mark all replies that lead to the solution as part of the answer.
So as with "proposed answer", there are multiple meanings to "answer".
Should only the full and complete answer be marked as an answer? Or every part that helped arrive at the final solution?
This comes down to whether the point here is to provide a searchable database of problems and their complete solutions. Or to help specific people find their way to a solution.
If the former, then should we not bother posting anything unless we can post the fully coded solution?
www.insteptech.com
We are volunteers and ask only that if we are able to help you, that you mark our reply as your answer. THANKS!There are many threads like that, but self proposing does not help in many cases, some understands some needs direction and some are stubborn, they dont care once they get answer. And answer mark icon overwrites self propose icon in thread title so moderator never gets attention of that issue.
Arjun Paudel
But the MSFT's can then see that and make a correction as it has been changed and can easier investigate that.I find the mechanism of propossing an answer right. But then I find that between the time from the last reply from an OP, the last Proposed answer there should at least be 1 day before it is marked as answer. Like can be seen the MSFT's do. I think that an OP should as well only be allowed to propose an answer, than what happened to Deborah should not have been. I agree that the impossibility to unpropose an answer yourself makes this mechanisme weak.
I see the MSFT's in this forum doing it right as Moderator, but please let them be moderator and not others. Some can do that others cannot, the MSFT's have control between themselves.
Cor
You might be correct but I think moderator do not check answered thread mostly. I am not sure, only mods can only explain that. IMHO, OP should be allowed to mark their answer as well since you can find some of the questions in the forums solved by OP themselves(I know the drawback). But in Deborahk case, it seems OP has overused his/her power :) Lets hope this discussion will be read by moderators and understand such issues.But the MSFT's can then see that and make a correction as it has been changed and can easier investigate that.
I find the mechanism of propossing an answer right. But then I find that between the time from the last reply from an OP, the last Proposed answer there should at least be 1 day before it is marked as answer. Like can be seen the MSFT's do. I think that an OP should as well only be allowed to propose an answer, than what happened to Deborah should not have been. I agree that the impossibility to unpropose an answer yourself makes this mechanisme weak.
I see the MSFT's in this forum doing it right as Moderator, but please let them be moderator and not others. Some can do that others cannot, the MSFT's have control between themselves.
Cor
Arjun Paudel
i'm lost..lol
in my posted case above, i guess marking their replies as answers would help out as well, but i'm not sure which marked answer will be the 'tompost=true' and would be most valuable to someone searching for a answer. if 3 replies add up to one correct answer, which one should i mark as correct? by marking all of them, would that not cheat everyone else out of their ranks?
marking my own answer, if i had to fix the code, does not give me any points anyhow.
kaymaf made sure i knew, before he knew my reason for slight readjustments.
i know some people just leave the threads open after they get what they need, without any thanx, or (wink, wink), or not even marking a correct answer.
but to me, if i know for certain that i helped them out, i do feel good.. although, those badges do look nice, all shiny and stuff..
trujade..
help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7 - Edited bytrujade Tuesday, June 09, 2009 5:21 PMforgot the 'not' in first line
- Moderators have their own flaws too, i have seen many threads in which moderator marked another moderator post as answer just for making a comment that does not related to OP question. This always happen when closing abandon thread. I understand it, they want to close the thread but marking closing comments as answer is unfair. The best way to treat everyone equal when thread is abandon and no specific answer to the problem is to lock the thread, so whoever view the thread will no that there is no answer to the problem. That is my suggestion.
kaymaf
I hope this helps, if that is what you want, just mark it as answer so that we can move on - A lot of newcomers to this forum do not understand the importance of giving credit to those who assist them. I was guilty, too. I have had cause of recent to go to some of my previous posts and either mark them as answered and vote some responses as helpful. There are a few questions that I have also answered and the OPs have since abandoned them as unanswered.
We need to be patient with the newcomers. They will understand with time.
Only performance counts!
