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LOW Disk space on Data D with THREE terabytes available

    Question

  • I have no clue what's going on here.  I have three physical drives added with total of over four terabytes.  Data D properties gives gobbledegook used space, 3.39 terabytes free space but then shows only 91.7 gig capacity.  I've restarted and done a chkdsk with no success.  These are brand new Samsung HD203WI disks.  I assume that the Data D disk is a spanned volume of some kind.  It appears that my brand new implementation of WHS has "stumbled" in assigning the properties for this drive.

    I'm very stuck now.  Help will be appreciated.
    jeudi 18 mars 2010 14:14

Réponses

  • Alex, the issue you mention is (in theory, I don't have your hardware sitting in front of me to be able to dig into it in detail) cosmetic, and really shouldn't have any effect on normal (supported) use of your server. From what you're saying, I don't think the cosmetic issue is the root of your problem. It sounds to me like some combination of how you're using the server, how you set it up, hardware, and/or software (including drivers) is at the root of your problem.

     

    Unfortunately, precisely because Windows Home Server is designed to be easy for a non-technical user to acquire, set up, and use (the main distribution channel is preinstalled by OEMs; when a user buys software and installs on their own hardware they effectively become "system builders" and take on the role of their own support) the recovery options are limited. If you can't fix an issue in the Windows Home Server console, Microsoft's design expects you to go through their server recovery process. (You can read a little more about this process here.) So your recommended next step is a server recovery. If that doesn't straighten out your issue, you may have some hardware or driver issue causing the problem. Sorting that issue out is, unfortunately, not easy and almost entirely on your shoulders; we can give a little advice here, but without your hardware sitting in front of us, that's where we'll usually have to stop.

     

    As for attitudes, to an extent that cuts both ways. Everyone here is a volunteer; Microsoft employees don't regularly post in these forums. As such, there are widely varying levels of technical skill, and sometimes social skill as well (I'm quite willing to be an abrasive S.O.B. if it gets the job done :) ). But people are trying to help.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    • Marqué comme réponse alexcomp samedi 20 mars 2010 00:49
    vendredi 19 mars 2010 15:30
    Modérateur
  • I must say, I really didn't expect snotty and supercilious remarks.  This product is called "Windows Home Server" - as such it should be expected to be used by people with average computer skills.  I'm still not entirely sure that the answer lies with copying files directly to the D/Data drive as opposed to the Server\Share.
    That's because you don't understand how WHS works.  It's due to Drive Extender and how it manipulates files in the storage pool. 

    I really don't need remarks like "Start using it the way it's supposed to be used, or reinstall first and then use it the way it's supposed to be used."  If there is a rule that you can't touch the underlying volume, where was it emphasized and how was I supposed to know this?
    When you logged into the server desktop and got that big warning about not being there since it can break WHS.

    At the root of this, in my opinion, is the corruption of the disk properties such that I have chicken tracks for my used space, even though the console says I'm in fine shape.  I keep mentioning this and yet nobody has taken notice that the operating system reads back corrupted information about the volume.  I don't think this is a WHS problem at all - I think it lives with the hardware and the services of the operating system.
    Apparently you didn't read my last post (which said that it's normal behavior for WHS).
    • Marqué comme réponse alexcomp samedi 20 mars 2010 00:49
    vendredi 19 mars 2010 17:18
    Modérateur
  • alexcomp, I'm sorry if you find my comments rude or unpollite, but if you ask me, you're not listening to the suggestions given here. You have replies from 3 separate MVPs here. I just tried to help, but it's up to you to follow our suggestions. Once again, sorry if I made you upset or anything, anyway, I'll leave this to the others in this forum.
    • Marqué comme réponse alexcomp samedi 20 mars 2010 00:49
    samedi 20 mars 2010 00:06

Toutes les réponses

  • How have you been copying files to your server?
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    jeudi 18 mars 2010 14:25
    Modérateur
  • Additional Info that may be pertinent:

    Put the server together with an AMD board I had laying around - an MSI 6777 with Sempron chip.  The sata controller is the Promise TX2plus Sata 300.  I'm starting to think the problem may lie with the older motherboard or Promise sata card having an inconsistency with WHS.
    jeudi 18 mars 2010 14:35
  • Alexcomp,
    When copying files to your whs, you need to use the network share. It doesn't matter if you are logged in to the server or not, you must always use the share. If you've copied anything directly to the D-drive, you've made a mistake.
    jeudi 18 mars 2010 14:38
  • Additional Info that may be pertinent:

    Put the server together with an AMD board I had laying around - an MSI 6777 with Sempron chip.  The sata controller is the Promise TX2plus Sata 300.  I'm starting to think the problem may lie with the older motherboard or Promise sata card having an inconsistency with WHS.

    Answering above question:

    Most transfer has been done through direct attachment to the WHS via external USB based drives and using the Windows Explorer natively on the WHS machine itself.

    Some has been done on an attached system using mapped drives to the external usb drives attached to the server - done remotely in order to facilitate playing files for discovery process.

    I added the second 2TB Samsung drive and the capacity did not change.  I wish I could post the screenshot of the properties box.  In the are of "used", it is gibberish - not even characters.

    jeudi 18 mars 2010 14:41
  • Alexcomp,
    When copying files to your whs, you need to use the network share. It doesn't matter if you are logged in to the server or not, you must always use the share. If you've copied anything directly to the D-drive, you've made a mistake.

    I'm not sure what is meant by this.  With an external drive attached, I drilled down from data d to shares and then to the shared, target folder.  Then I copied folder to folder and the target folder was "shared".
    jeudi 18 mars 2010 15:13
  • What he meant was you cannot copy directly to the server using anything other than the network shares.  Going to d:\shares tells me you are on the server itself and pulling data down to it.  Push the data from the other PC.  You have to go to \\homeserver\shares... not d:\shares.  Otherwise the DE service gets confused which is what it sounds like you have done.

    WHS is not meant to log into directly unless you are doing maintenance.  Although some have added stuff to their whs installations, it isnt supported.

    WHS does not use a JBOD.  It uses a storage pool functionality.  The DE service can be thought as analogous to a Logical Volume Manager.  You never want to bypass a LVM to write directly to the drives.

    I would suggest move the stuff you copied from the external drive back to it and take it to another pc on you network and upload it using the \\yourhomeserver\shares UNC name.
    • Proposé comme réponse DrX69 jeudi 18 mars 2010 15:29
    jeudi 18 mars 2010 15:29
  • As others have said, you shouldn't do direct access to the file system (copying to D:\Shares on the server); you should always go through the network shares. The supported method is to copy from a client PC to your server over your network. With several terabytes of data that will probably take longer than you like; connecting the drive to your server directly, then logging into the server via Remote Desktop or physical KVM and copying data into the shares using the link to the server's shares you'll find on the desktop is also safe (though the direct login is unsupported).
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    jeudi 18 mars 2010 16:00
    Modérateur
  • The reason for this behavior is, that WHS expects to have tombstones in D:\Shares, which are pointing to the real file location in the hidden folder DE on the same or another volume.
    So if there are now real files instead of the expected pointers, WHS components can get confused and are unable to redistribute the files to different disks.
    This method is necessary to provide the space available on all disks as one big storage chunk for shared folders and backups and control behavior of folder duplication.
    Best greetings from Germany
    Olaf
    jeudi 18 mars 2010 19:35
    Modérateur
  • When I have offloaded my data, will I need to format or reset the Data D disk?  I'm guessing something proactive will need to happen in order to restore its' integrity.  What steps should I take?  There are backup files on this volume.  Should I remove the backup computers from backup and then format?
    jeudi 18 mars 2010 19:49
  • Let's start with offloading the data and see where that gets you.
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    jeudi 18 mars 2010 20:36
    Modérateur
  • Let's start with offloading the data and see where that gets you.
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)


    The data is offloaded.  All shared folders have been cleared but I have left the folder name and the share intact.  I've removed the user and both computers that were attached.  The console indicates 95% free space and all drives are listed as health....

    YET

    The same status of the drive under windows explorer properties exists.  It shows the free space but has the chicken tracks for used, and capacity listed as 91Gigabytes.  I'm pretty sure this is where the system stops me with the low disk message.  Nothing has changed.  I'm chkdsking right now, (thorough), and I suppose the next logical step is to format under explorer but I worry that the opsys will not reconstitute the drive with the shared folders, etc - thereby breaking the system completely.

    What's next?

    Thanks for sticking with me guys....

    vendredi 19 mars 2010 00:37
  • Let's start with offloading the data and see where that gets you.
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)


    The data is offloaded.  All shared folders have been cleared but I have left the folder name and the share intact.  I've removed the user and both computers that were attached.  The console indicates 95% free space and all drives are listed as health....

    YET

    The same status of the drive under windows explorer properties exists.  It shows the free space but has the chicken tracks for used

     

    That's normal (and one of the reasons why logging into the server desktop is unsupported; users who don't understand how WHS works see that and assume something is wrong).

    and capacity listed as 91Gigabytes.  I'm pretty sure this is where the system stops me with the low disk message.  Nothing has changed.  I'm chkdsking right now, (thorough), and I suppose the next logical step is to format under explorer but I worry that the opsys will not reconstitute the drive with the shared folders, etc - thereby breaking the system completely.

    What's next?

    Thanks for sticking with me guys....


    At this point, I would start copying data back to the shares (again, through \\server\sharename, not through D:\shares).

    vendredi 19 mars 2010 03:27
    Modérateur
  • Do not attempt to format the drive (or otherwise manipulate it) through a desktop session, or through an add-in that mimics a desktop session. I can guarantee that formatting D: will cause severe problems.
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    vendredi 19 mars 2010 03:27
    Modérateur
  • Let's start with offloading the data and see where that gets you.
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)


    The data is offloaded.  All shared folders have been cleared but I have left the folder name and the share intact.  I've removed the user and both computers that were attached.  The console indicates 95% free space and all drives are listed as health....

    YET

    The same status of the drive under windows explorer properties exists.  It shows the free space but has the chicken tracks for used

     

    That's normal (and one of the reasons why logging into the server desktop is unsupported; users who don't understand how WHS works see that and assume something is wrong).

     

    and capacity listed as 91Gigabytes.  I'm pretty sure this is where the system stops me with the low disk message.  Nothing has changed.  I'm chkdsking right now, (thorough), and I suppose the next logical step is to format under explorer but I worry that the opsys will not reconstitute the drive with the shared folders, etc - thereby breaking the system completely.

    What's next?

    Thanks for sticking with me guys....


     

    At this point, I would start copying data back to the shares (again, through \\server\sharename, not through D:\shares).


    I'll try this but I bet I run into "the wall" again.  Are there any Microsoft techs in this forum?  it seems there should be a way to reset th disk properties and rebuild the startup folder structure.  This is what it's going to take IMHO and I guess I'll have to restrart the entire operating system if my properties are still set to an incorrect capacity.  Getting frustrated.
    vendredi 19 mars 2010 10:54
  • What Wall?  If you use the Windows Home Server Console you should be fine.  The problem has stemed from you using Windows Home Server as a desktop OS.


    --
    vendredi 19 mars 2010 11:10
  • If you have removed all data already, what's stopping you from reinstalling the server if you are afraid that something might still be wrong after the mistake of copying the files the wrong way?

    As you mentioned earlier, you've also removed all users and computers. Is there anything else left that you've put on the server?

    If the server is empty, you have 2 options. Start using it the way it's supposed to be used, or reinstall first and then use it the way it's supposed to be used.

    As you got the server installed, the hardware is working, and you know what drivers you might need to add manually. I'd wipe it and start over just in case something else got compromised. After reinstalled, don't use remote desktop or log on locally unless you really need to.

    vendredi 19 mars 2010 12:44
  • I must say, I really didn't expect snotty and supercilious remarks.  This product is called "Windows Home Server" - as such it should be expected to be used by people with average computer skills.  I'm still not entirely sure that the answer lies with copying files directly to the D/Data drive as opposed to the Server\Share.

    I really don't need remarks like "Start using it the way it's supposed to be used, or reinstall first and then use it the way it's supposed to be used."  If there is a rule that you can't touch the underlying volume, where was it emphasized and how was I supposed to know this?

    At the root of this, in my opinion, is the corruption of the disk properties such that I have chicken tracks for my used space, even though the console says I'm in fine shape.  I keep mentioning this and yet nobody has taken notice that the operating system reads back corrupted information about the volume.  I don't think this is a WHS problem at all - I think it lives with the hardware and the services of the operating system.

    vendredi 19 mars 2010 15:08
  • Alex, the issue you mention is (in theory, I don't have your hardware sitting in front of me to be able to dig into it in detail) cosmetic, and really shouldn't have any effect on normal (supported) use of your server. From what you're saying, I don't think the cosmetic issue is the root of your problem. It sounds to me like some combination of how you're using the server, how you set it up, hardware, and/or software (including drivers) is at the root of your problem.

     

    Unfortunately, precisely because Windows Home Server is designed to be easy for a non-technical user to acquire, set up, and use (the main distribution channel is preinstalled by OEMs; when a user buys software and installs on their own hardware they effectively become "system builders" and take on the role of their own support) the recovery options are limited. If you can't fix an issue in the Windows Home Server console, Microsoft's design expects you to go through their server recovery process. (You can read a little more about this process here.) So your recommended next step is a server recovery. If that doesn't straighten out your issue, you may have some hardware or driver issue causing the problem. Sorting that issue out is, unfortunately, not easy and almost entirely on your shoulders; we can give a little advice here, but without your hardware sitting in front of us, that's where we'll usually have to stop.

     

    As for attitudes, to an extent that cuts both ways. Everyone here is a volunteer; Microsoft employees don't regularly post in these forums. As such, there are widely varying levels of technical skill, and sometimes social skill as well (I'm quite willing to be an abrasive S.O.B. if it gets the job done :) ). But people are trying to help.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    • Marqué comme réponse alexcomp samedi 20 mars 2010 00:49
    vendredi 19 mars 2010 15:30
    Modérateur
  • Hi Alex,

    You seem to be complaining about an internal arfefact that wouldn't normally be seen and as far as I can tell I can't see what is the problem.  I guess I should ask what chicken tracks are and then I might understand if you have a problem.  If you want to use the word supercilious then you could apply it to yourself in using Windows Home Server directly rather than from the Windows Home Server console.  Just because the console is designed to be used by people who may not know much about computers doesn't mean that use of it imlpies your level of knowledge.   Use of the WHS Console is the supported and designed means of running and maintaining a Windows Home Server and it is designed to be used for people who have less than average computer skills.

    When you buy OEM software you undertake a responsibility that you know about the product that you will install.   Our comments helpful or not are the truth - if you would like people to tell you lies of how something is wonderful 'there is a platform for that' ;-)

    All the best,
    Al


    --
    vendredi 19 mars 2010 16:08
  • I must say, I really didn't expect snotty and supercilious remarks.  This product is called "Windows Home Server" - as such it should be expected to be used by people with average computer skills.  I'm still not entirely sure that the answer lies with copying files directly to the D/Data drive as opposed to the Server\Share.
    That's because you don't understand how WHS works.  It's due to Drive Extender and how it manipulates files in the storage pool. 

    I really don't need remarks like "Start using it the way it's supposed to be used, or reinstall first and then use it the way it's supposed to be used."  If there is a rule that you can't touch the underlying volume, where was it emphasized and how was I supposed to know this?
    When you logged into the server desktop and got that big warning about not being there since it can break WHS.

    At the root of this, in my opinion, is the corruption of the disk properties such that I have chicken tracks for my used space, even though the console says I'm in fine shape.  I keep mentioning this and yet nobody has taken notice that the operating system reads back corrupted information about the volume.  I don't think this is a WHS problem at all - I think it lives with the hardware and the services of the operating system.
    Apparently you didn't read my last post (which said that it's normal behavior for WHS).
    • Marqué comme réponse alexcomp samedi 20 mars 2010 00:49
    vendredi 19 mars 2010 17:18
    Modérateur
  • alexcomp, I'm sorry if you find my comments rude or unpollite, but if you ask me, you're not listening to the suggestions given here. You have replies from 3 separate MVPs here. I just tried to help, but it's up to you to follow our suggestions. Once again, sorry if I made you upset or anything, anyway, I'll leave this to the others in this forum.
    • Marqué comme réponse alexcomp samedi 20 mars 2010 00:49
    samedi 20 mars 2010 00:06
  • I guess I'm fixed.  I removed all storage copied by me leaving only those files initially generated after the install.  Moved them back to "Server\Shares" and all is well.  I'm well past the level of storage where it choked before.

    Perhaps I fixated on the corrupted characteristics at the root of the Data volume.  Decades ago I designed software for end users and we firmly believed that if it could be screwed up, it would be.  I stand by my contention that having explorer able to access the D drive directly with no explicit warnings was an accident looking for a place to happen.  I'm very sure I'm not the first to get in trouble this way.

    If I over-reacted to my "lecture", and perhaps I did, apologies.

    • Proposé comme réponse Bjurran samedi 20 mars 2010 01:00
    samedi 20 mars 2010 00:58
  • Alexcomp, you're not the first one nor the last to do this.

    I haven't used whs for long myself, but I do understand what you are saying here. Techies are used to doing things on the server. With whs, just use the network shares or console. Period. =)
    However, as you've noticed, with whs you need to remember that it is designed for average users who don't have a clue that it is possible to remote control a computer. I did the same thing myself first time I installed whs, and I decided to reinstall it to make sure everything was back to the way it was supposed to be. As long as you stick to using the network shares and the whs console, you should be fine. If not, ask us here. The MVPs here are absolutely great and will help you with almost anything.

    Best regards from Sweden,
    Bjurran

    samedi 20 mars 2010 01:07
  • ...
    I stand by my contention that having explorer able to access the D drive directly with no explicit warnings was an accident looking for a place to happen.  I'm very sure I'm not the first to get in trouble this way.
    ...

    When you log in to your server using Remote Desktop or physical KVM, you are warned that anything you do is potentially dangerous. It's possible (easy) to disable that warning, as it's just a shortcut on the start menu; perhaps you did so? There was really no way for Microsoft to include warnings on Explorer, etc., because Windows Home server is really just additional components on top of a version of Windows Server 2003.

     

    And no, you're not the first. Not even the hundred and first.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    samedi 20 mars 2010 03:22
    Modérateur