Status of Power Pack 1 shipping
- Thanks for the update. Will this delay the release of the Power Pack? Will this patch and the Power Pack be released at the same time?
Answers
Please see this thread for the latest update on Power Pack 1:
http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsHomeServer/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=3106946&SiteID=50&mode=1
All Replies
I moved this from being a response in the KB update thread to being a separate thread.
We have always planned on holding the release of Power Pack 1 until we had the data corruption issue resolved. The Power Pack 1 code was "put on the shelf" in early January, as the team switched focus to working on the data corruption issue. There is some new functionality in Power Pack 1 like the ability to backup your Shared Folders to an external hard drive attached to your home server that some home server users have asked us to ship. There also is some new remote access functionality (photo thumbnails, multi-file uploads), and a collection of fixes.
Knowing that the home server team has a current estimate of June, 2008 for the fix for the data corruption issue, do people believe that the team should "dust off" the Power Pack 1 code and release prior to a fix for the data corruption issue?
Actually, the feature of Power Pack 1 that I need urgently is the 64 bit WHS connector. Not that the other features are not welcome, they are just not as important in comparison. And yes: If you could provide this without affecting the corruption bux fix schedule, I would appreciate it.
Regards, Martin
T. Headrick wrote: I moved this from being a response in the KB update thread to being a separate thread. We have always planned on holding the release of Power Pack 1 until we had the data corruption issue resolved. The Power Pack 1 code was "put on the shelf" in early January, as the team switched focus to working on the data corruption issue. There is some new functionality in Power Pack 1 like the ability to backup your Shared Folders to an external hard drive attached to your home server that some home server users have asked us to ship. There also is some new remote access functionality (photo thumbnails, multi-file uploads), and a collection of fixes.
Knowing that the home server team has a current estimate of June, 2008 for the fix for the data corruption issue, do people believe that the team should "dust off" the Power Pack 1 code and release prior to a fix for the data corruption issue?
First, let me start off by saying that I have not been bitten by any corruption with my data and I continue to store music/videos/pics/personal data on my server (I just don't edit anything while it's stored there; I copy it to my workstation, edit it, then move it back). (However, I'm sure people that have experienced that problem will have a different opinion.) IMO, I don't see any reason to hold the PP1 code back and wait until the data corruption patch is released (unless the PP1 code makes the data corruption happen more frequently, which I seriously doubt is the case, judging by the detailed explanation given as to what causes the problem). I, for one, am looking forward to the new features of PP1 and would like to get it sooner rather than later.
Tinue wrote: Actually, the feature of Power Pack 1 that I need urgently is the 64 bit WHS connector.
Agreed.
Since I use it only for backup, with no editing at this time, I vote for release of any new features as soon as they are completed and felt to be solid.
I also agree to get the PP1 asap. The corruption bug should not refrain from having any other new features, unless they harm the WHS. We have to move forward, not backward. Let the guys at MSFT do their job and when they are ready to release the corruption patch, they just do so.
Klode
Yeah, I too say get it out the door - as long as the team thinks it won't compromise the corruption fix. I've put a lot of time and effort into ensuring our network has sufficient redundancy to not be affected should any corruption occur - and am continuing some experimentation - so I'm cautiously confident of the WHS box. But with three months or so to wait, anything that gives me a sense of 'moving forward' before then would be welcome...
Bill
When it comes to 'features' versus rock-solid, assured, bug-free data storage, I'd push 'features' onto the back burner.
The problems at present are -
(a) I don't know whether my so-far still intact data will suddenly get corrupted.
(There have been many reports of corruption appearing out-of-the-blue.)
(b) There are no guaranteed checks that I can run on my system to clarify whether my data is even vulnerable.
I don't know if it is vulnerable, and I don't know that it isn't vulnerable. That's in spite of the KB updates, and in spite of my fully understanding the "work-arounds".
(c) In order to reduce my (possible) vulnerability, I have turned OFF folder sharing / DE on all shares.
(d) As a way of coping with all the above, and to keep my WHS-hopes alive, I'm spending some time each day to progressively verify a portion of my thousands of files.
In the meantime I'm running a handicapped (no duplication) backup server (WHS) with fingers and toes crossed, and unable therefore to reclaim the GB of HDD storage I hoped to release by trusting some of it to WHS.
So ... you bet I want the fix first, earliest, soonest, ASAP, without delay, and I don't care a monkey's about any further features or bells or whistles or other boast-worthy extras from the WHS Development Team.
I vote that you get the fundamentals sorted first please!!
Colin P.
CSPea wrote: When it comes to 'features' versus rock-solid, assured, bug-free data storage, I'd push 'features' onto the back burner.
The problems at present are -
(a) I don't know whether my so-far still intact data will suddenly get corrupted.
(There have been many reports of corruption appearing out-of-the-blue.)
(b) There are no guaranteed checks that I can run on my system to clarify whether my data is even vulnerable.
I don't know if it is vulnerable, and I don't know that it isn't vulnerable. That's in spite of the KB updates, and in spite of my fully understanding the "work-arounds".
(c) In order to reduce my (possible) vulnerability, I have turned OFF folder sharing / DE on all shares.
(d) As a way of coping with all the above, and to keep my WHS-hopes alive, I'm spending some time each day to progressively verify a portion of my thousands of files.
In the meantime I'm running a handicapped (no duplication) backup server (WHS) with fingers and toes crossed, and unable therefore to reclaim the GB of HDD storage I hoped to release by trusting some of it to WHS.
So ... you bet I want the fix first, earliest, soonest, ASAP, without delay, and I don't care a monkey's about any further features or bells or whistles or other boast-worthy extras from the WHS Development Team.
I vote that you get the fundamentals sorted first please!!
Colin P.
I would agree with you except, based on what Todd is implying by his comments, it sounds to me like PP1 is already done. If that assumption is correct (and PP1 doesn't make the corruption problem worse obviously), there is no reason not to release it now. (Now if code still needs to be written for PP1, which would take away time and effort from the WHS team completely fixing the corruption problem, I completely agree with you.)
Here are my two cents/questions:
-
Did the whole team really need to focus on this bug? That kind of surprises me.
-
Given where the bug is, it seems like only a small group can fix it. So, the rest could move back to PP1.
-
If you wait to release PP1 and the bug fix togeather, could you add some more features to PP1?
-
I am just interested, does the bug exist in Server 2003/Server 2008 but only manifests itself in WHS?
I am really enjoying WHS. I am looking forward to this fix and PP1.
-
- Colin, I think you misunderstand what Todd is proposing (which is why I kind of hoped he wouldn't propose it
).
Microsoft believes that PP1 is effectively done. There have been no changes to the code base since January. I assume that means that there are no potential show-stopper bugs in the tracking tools. What he has asked is whether Microsoft should sit on PP1 for three more months (or more) in order to make sure the fix for KB946676 is done or release it sooner.
My own opinion is that Microsoft should release it. The server backup in particular can help alleviate the risk of file corruption due to KB946676. There are other "nice to haves" as well. This is a change from my opinion of many weeks ago when I told Todd (I think the best description would be "strongly worded but polite dismay" ) that PP1 could go hang until the file corruption issue is fixed. I've changed my mind because I think getting server backup out into the field will help users.
And if they decide to release it, it will have no impact on the effort to correct the file corruption issue. If I thought for a second that it would delay KB946676, I'd already have written another one of those emails full of "strongly worded but polite dismay." Which I haven't... PP1 - server backup options and WHS 64 bit connector... Yes, bring it on!
- Michael, the whole team doesn't need to focus on KB946676. For example, I doubt that the user interface people have been involved in more than a "let's try this" role. But PP1 is effectively in the can already; adding more features would mean another round of testing and bug fixing, which would delay it several more months (probably well past the June time frame).
As for the bug, it's entirely within Windows Home Server. Windows Server 2003/2008 is not affected by this issue, as the KB article takes pains to make clear. CSPea wrote: When it comes to 'features' versus rock-solid, assured, bug-free data storage, I'd push 'features' onto the back burner.
The problems at present are -
...
(c) In order to reduce my (possible) vulnerability, I have turned OFF folder sharing / DE on all shares.
...
So ... you bet I want the fix first, earliest, soonest, ASAP, without delay, and I don't care a monkey's about any further features or bells or whistles or other boast-worthy extras from the WHS Development Team.
I vote that you get the fundamentals sorted first please!!
Colin P.
Colin - thanks for the feedback,
One comment on your assumption, just turning off Duplication on Shared Folders is not enough. The easiest way to protect yourself is to have a single hard drive home server. If you can't do that then you should heed the following advice:
Until a software fix for Windows Home Server is available, users may choose to act to help limit the possibility of being affected by this issue. In the Knowledge Base article http://support.microsoft.com/kb/946676 we suggest some precautionary measures that users may choose to take.
· Employ Windows Explorer or a command line tool to copy files to and from the Windows Home Server
· Do not use applications to directly edit or change files that are stored on Windows Home Server.
· Do not use media management programs, such as Windows Media Player, to import files to the Windows Home Server.
· Do not redirect applications to access files that are stored in the Shared Folders, as some applications may make changes to the metadata of a file without explicit user action.
CSPea wrote: When it comes to 'features' versus rock-solid, assured, bug-free data storage, I'd push 'features' onto the back burner.
The problems at present are -
...
(c) In order to reduce my (possible) vulnerability, I have turned OFF folder sharing / DE on all shares.
...
So ... you bet I want the fix first, earliest, soonest, ASAP, without delay, and I don't care a monkey's about any further features or bells or whistles or other boast-worthy extras from the WHS Development Team.
I vote that you get the fundamentals sorted first please!!
Colin P.
Colin - thanks for the feedback,
One comment on your assumption, just turning off Duplication on Shared Folders is not enough. The easiest way to protect yourself is to have a single hard drive home server. If you can't do that then you should heed the following advice:
Until a software fix for Windows Home Server is available, users may choose to act to help limit the possibility of being affected by this issue. In the Knowledge Base article http://support.microsoft.com/kb/946676 we suggest some precautionary measures that users may choose to take.
· Employ Windows Explorer or a command line tool to copy files to and from the Windows Home Server
· Do not use applications to directly edit or change files that are stored on Windows Home Server.
· Do not use media management programs, such as Windows Media Player, to import files to the Windows Home Server.
· Do not redirect applications to access files that are stored in the Shared Folders, as some applications may make changes to the metadata of a file without explicit user action.
kariya21 wrote: [....] based on what Todd is implying by his comments, it sounds to me like PP1 is already done. If that assumption is correct (and PP1 doesn't make the corruption problem worse obviously), there is no reason not to release it now. [....] Yes, that would be an ideal scenario.
Perhaps Todd could clarify whether (or by how much) the bug-fix might be delayed by 'dusting off' of PP1, along with the management of its release and the work needed to respond to (possible) new queries from the multitude of Users who would (I presume universally) adopt it?
I accept that it's impossible to give absolute time-predictions, but it would be really good not to feel teased by yet another "guess" or "hope" or "implication" that the (IMO) all-important bug-fix would not be significantly postponed, by pulling PP1 back to a higher priority.
Colin P.
(Quick edit to acknowledge your follow-up points Ken and Todd. And I'll replying to you both (below) soonest.)
Please release the pack now, I believe the additional features are far to beneficial to leave people waiting any longer. The corruption bug only occurs for a few in very particular conditions. The fix for this should released as an individual hotfix when it is ready.
Please release it now, if not as an auto update, as a manual download.
I want to be able to back up my Vista 64 machine!
You cannot say for definite when the hot fix will be ready so the pack should be released now. Everyone has been itching for it since January now.
MichaelWacey wrote: Here are my two cents/questions:
-
Did the whole team really need to focus on this bug? That kind of surprises me.
-
Given where the bug is, it seems like only a small group can fix it. So, the rest could move back to PP1.
-
If you wait to release PP1 and the bug fix togeather, could you add some more features to PP1?
-
I am just interested, does the bug exist in Server 2003/Server 2008 but only manifests itself in WHS?
I am really enjoying WHS. I am looking forward to this fix and PP1.
Michael:
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There are a lot of individual applications that require manual testing. This requires people.
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Yes, it is a small group of developers working on coding the fix, Other developers are writing additional automated test harnesses with members of the test team. Other members of the test team and members of the PM team are working on running manual tests and stress tests with the file system mini filter.
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No new features for Power Pack 1 - the product has already been localized. Sorry.
-
As documented in the KB article, this only affects Windows Home Server. It has no bearing on Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2008, Windows Small Business Server, etc.
-
CSPea wrote: Yes, that would be an ideal scenario. Perhaps Todd could clarify whether (or by how much) the bug-fix might be delayed by 'dusting off' of PP1, along with the management of its release and the work needed to respond to (possible) new queries from the multitude of Users who would (I presume universally) adopt it?
I accept that it's impossible to give absolute time-predictions, but it would be really good not to feel teased by yet another "guess" or "hope" or "implication" that the (IMO) all-important bug-fix would not be significantly postponed, by pulling PP1 back to a higher priority.
Colin P.
I can't possibly imagine for a second that Todd (or anyone else at MS for that matter) would believe that PP1 has a higher priority than fixing the data corruption bug. (IMO, if there was even a remote possibility that releasing PP1 now would have any affect on the timetable for the release of the data corruption fix, I doubt Todd would even have brought it up in the first place.)
Please please release it now! :-) I've got 3 x64 machine waiting to be switched over to Homeserver as soon as it is released. And I've not had the corruption issues.
CSPea wrote: Perhaps Todd could clarify whether (or by how much) the bug-fix might be delayed by 'dusting off' of PP1, along with the management of its release and the work needed to respond to (possible) new queries from the multitude of Users who would (I presume universally) adopt it?
...
Colin P.
If Power Pack 1 gets released prior to the fix for the data corruption issue, it will provide little or no impact to the majority of the members of the home server team. Since January, the only people spending any time on Power Pack 1 have been the localization team (as we will eventually ship Japanese and 3 Chinese language versions), the beta support and sustained engineering teams (which has been triaging incoming issues identified by our beta testers, partners and customer support teams) to see if there were any new issues uncovered that were "show-stoppers", release management and operations teams.
Clarifying one issue - we will hold the release of Power Pack 1 for the new language versions (Japanese and Chinese) for the data corruption issue - since they will ship on new media. The only thing under consideration, the only thing that I am garnering feedback on is how the community feels about shipping Power Pack 1 for English, German, French and Spanish via Windows Update to existing users prior to the data corruption issue being resolved
From my point of view I would like to see PP1 released as there are many features which I would like to take advantage of. As many people have said before, as long as the release of PP1 doesn't hinder or impact on the bug fix, then I can't see any reason for keeping it back. Maybe rather than releasing it through Windows Update, it could be a manual update you have to download until the bug fix is complete. That way people can have the choice.
Bring it on!! ;0)
- At my vote for now. I too have x64 machines that I have not been able to backup. The thing I am MOST looking forward to is the 64-bit connector!!
- I also vote for releasing the Power Pack 1. I have 2 computers on Vista 64 and deperately want to be able to backup these compters on WHS. Anyone who has 64 bit versions of VISTA is missing out on one of the few safe areas of use on WHS, computer backup.
SO my vote is to released PP1. Thanks Ken for your candid reply.
Ken Warren wrote: Colin, I think you misunderstand what Todd is proposing (which is why I kind of hoped he wouldn't propose it ).
Microsoft believes that PP1 is effectively done. There have been no changes to the code base since January. I assume that means that there are no potential show-stopper bugs in the tracking tools. What he has asked is whether Microsoft should sit on PP1 for three more months (or more) in order to make sure the fix for KB946676 is done or release it sooner.
My own opinion is that Microsoft should release it. The server backup in particular can help alleviate the risk of file corruption due to KB946676. There are other "nice to haves" as well. This is a change from my opinion of many weeks ago when I told Todd (I think the best description would be "strongly worded but polite dismay" ) that PP1 could go hang until the file corruption issue is fixed. I've changed my mind because I think getting server backup out into the field will help users.
And if they decide to release it, it will have no impact on the effort to correct the file corruption issue. If I thought for a second that it would delay KB946676, I'd already have written another one of those emails full of "strongly worded but polite dismay." Which I haven't...I now understand that PP1 is all-but ready for release, and having calmed down a bit from my earlier desk-thumping mood about "where's my bug-fix???", I can see the appettite here for some feel-good from the extras in PP1, not least the 64-bit Connector part.
However, I'd still grumble a bit about this apparent benefit, which was mentioned also (in a way) in another posting -
Ken Warren wrote: [...]The server backup in particular can help alleviate the risk of file corruption I already use rotating off-site USB drives as my fall-back backup, as well as JungleDisk/Amazon S3 for some critical data, "to be sure to be sure". So - regarding the PP1 opportunity to make further backups of my WHS shares - while WHS is in this uncertain state I haven't even started trusting it as a component in my backup regime. And I won't feel able to do so until after the bug-fix (remember, I'm using three SATA drives, not just one). And those multiple HDD/spindles in my PCs must continue to hang on to their duplicate-copies of my data until I'm really really sure I can yield it at last to WHS.
But progress is progress, and we're getting there ...
Colin P.
- Joker: Have you shipped a million of those things?!
- Scientist at Axis Chemical Factory: Yes, sir.
- Joker: Ship 'em all! We're gonna take 'em out a whole new door!
- Scientist at Axis Chemical Factory: Yes, sir.
Yes, yes, please ship out ASAP via WU! I have one x64 Vista machine already and PP1 is the only thing keeping me from upgrading my primary desktop to x64 Ultimate. As Ken mentioned before I think, having a backup feature for the server itself may actually save some folks' bacon if the corruption bug strikes. Nothing robcopy can't solve for sure but it would be nice to have- Joker: Have you shipped a million of those things?!
If it's ready to release then please do so. It seems silly to hold PP1 back for an issue that will remain in place anyway untill June or later. The data corruption issue is something we are working around anywy.
PLEASE RELEASE PP! :-)
Rich
Given that MS is currently recommending a single drive setup for WHS and the fact that Power Pack 1 includes a built in backup solution I would say release the Power Pack ASAP. At least then anyone who takes the MS advice of using a single drive can backup their data using WHS software.
I would however agree with Leod and ask that it is released as an optional download rather than sent down via Windows Update. At least then Home Server users have the option of installing it if they want it straight away and there's less chance of upsetting any users who may already be suffering with the corruption issue who want to wait to install the Power Pack until the issue is resolved.
T. Headrick wrote: CSPea wrote: Perhaps Todd could clarify whether (or by how much) the bug-fix might be delayed by 'dusting off' of PP1, along with the management of its release and the work needed to respond to (possible) new queries from the multitude of Users who would (I presume universally) adopt it?
...
Colin P.
If Power Pack 1 gets released prior to the fix for the data corruption issue, it will provide little or no impact to the majority of the members of the home server team. Since January, the only people spending any time on Power Pack 1 have been the localization team (as we will eventually ship Japanese and 3 Chinese language versions), the beta support and sustained engineering teams (which has been triaging incoming issues identified by our beta testers, partners and customer support teams) to see if there were any new issues uncovered that were "show-stoppers", release management and operations teams.
Clarifying one issue - we will hold the release of Power Pack 1 for the new language versions (Japanese and Chinese) for the data corruption issue - since they will ship on new media. The only thing under consideration, the only thing that I am garnering feedback on is how the community feels about shipping Power Pack 1 for English, German, French and Spanish via Windows Update to existing users prior to the data corruption issue being resolved
Thank you Todd for this very full reply, and clarification.
Given this more complete 'situation report', and also acknowledging the evident hunger by respondents so far in this thread for PP1's extras, I'll take a deep breath and wait for the fix ...
But I do have more questions which I have added to my later reply to your other post below.
Regards,
Colin
I vote to release PP1 now. I have not had any problems, but I would love the ability to use the folder backup feature
along with the other updates.
I want to also thank the WHS team for a great product. I have used the pc restore twice now and it has been a lifesaver.
Thanks,
Jim
Please release PP1.
I believe this software, especially the backup solution, will allivate the corruption issue with an easy way for uses to feel safe with their data on an offsite backup of there most precious data.
- fix the bug! its a bug - fix it. bug=bad. FIX the BUG.etc. pp1 can wait.
It would certainly be a good thing to release PP1 now.... it doesn't worsen the data corruption problem in any way. At the same time a lot of users (including myself) will be happy to get x64 compatibility. It also good to get the users started on the new connector update process so that the data corruption patch later this year can be more easily deployed. Not to forget all the other new features in PP1....
Gregor
Tom,
Thank you for sharing this with us.
I personally think the ability to backup WHS shares is a very valuable feature for safegarding against data loss. Also the 64bit connector is a much wanted feature of PP1 for some of us.
On the other hand, releasing PP1 could also stress support on any problem that could come with it. Please don't get me wrong. I'm sure you wil not release PP1 if it is not done, but being a professional developer myself I know that any release may contain some minor problems that need attention.
I personally would be fine with *any* decision the WHS-Team makes on this. If they feel they can safely release PP1 without this interfering with solving the current curruption issue: Great! Please do so! Can't wait!
(Btw: My WHS has been stable from day one (nov '07) and I am abled to work arround the corruption isssue. I will install as soon as you release PP1)
ive_been_expecting_u wrote: Given that MS is currently recommending a single drive setup for WHS and the fact that Power Pack 1 includes a built in backup solution I would say release the Power Pack ASAP. At least then anyone who takes the MS advice of using a single drive can backup their data using WHS software.
I agree too that MS should release the PP1 as soon as possible.
I have suffered data corruption and lost 300+ photos. Since then I changed my WHS to single HDD, but I am still not sure how many other files have been already corrupted.
I think MS should provide some sort of utility with PP1 to check data integrity.
It would be disaster to back up data using PP1 to external HDD and then 2 years later to find out that data was already corrupted.
My preferences are in order that …
1- Provide us with a tool to check existing data first
2- Release PP1
3- Release fix when you ready
My Best,
- Release Power Pack One now. The only possible reason for not releasing it is it makes the corruption worse! If it doesn't do that then it should be released. It has the potential to help with the corruption! Please release it this week! Not next. If nessary then take some people from the team working on Vail to do what needs to be done, but release it already!
T. Headrick wrote: I moved this from being a response in the KB update thread to being a separate thread.
Knowing that the home server team has a current estimate of June, 2008 for the fix for the data corruption issue, do people believe that the team should "dust off" the Power Pack 1 code and release prior to a fix for the data corruption issue?
Ship it ASAP. The Backup functionality and the x64 connector are CRITICAL tools in helping mitigate the damage of this corruption nightmare. The fact that it will be a 7 month problem before a fix is already embarrasing, please don;t compound it.
My vote is to release PP1 now. Unless it makes the situation with the Data Corruption worse. But, from what I have read, it doesn't do that. The features it brings to the table are items that are needed now. If it won't make bigger problems, then release the PP1 and then work on the data corruption issue separately.T. Headrick wrote: CSPea wrote: When it comes to 'features' versus rock-solid, assured, bug-free data storage, I'd push 'features' onto the back burner.
The problems at present are -
...
(c) In order to reduce my (possible) vulnerability, I have turned OFF folder sharing / DE on all shares.
...
So ... you bet I want the fix first, earliest, soonest, ASAP, without delay, and I don't care a monkey's about any further features or bells or whistles or other boast-worthy extras from the WHS Development Team.
I vote that you get the fundamentals sorted first please!!
Colin P.
Colin - thanks for the feedback,
One comment on your assumption, just turning off Duplication on Shared Folders is not enough. The easiest way to protect yourself is to have a single hard drive home server. If you can't do that then you should heed the following advice:
Until a software fix for Windows Home Server is available, users may choose to act to help limit the possibility of being affected by this issue. In the Knowledge Base article http://support.microsoft.com/kb/946676 we suggest some precautionary measures that users may choose to take.
· Employ Windows Explorer or a command line tool to copy files to and from the Windows Home Server
· Do not use applications to directly edit or change files that are stored on Windows Home Server.
· Do not use media management programs, such as Windows Media Player, to import files to the Windows Home Server.
· Do not redirect applications to access files that are stored in the Shared Folders, as some applications may make changes to the metadata of a file without explicit user action.
Todd,
T. Headrick wrote: [...] just turning off Duplication on Shared Folders is not enough [....] If you can't do that then you should heed the following advice ... Thankyou. But I fear increasingly that the scales are tilting against me and my data, and against my hopes for escaping this nebulous corruption bug!
Given that -
-
I'm running three drives on my WHS.
-
I'm using SyncBackSE to do my regular backups, during which it does a write + re-read-verify of each file, and hence it conflicts with both your first and your fourth precautionary measures above.
-
I'm also using SyncBackSE to do occasional, manually triggered re-read verifications of earlier backups.
-
I do not know (as I mentioned earlier) what stress-test I could run to confirm (or refute) my system's vulnerability to the bug.
then - even though SyncBackSE continues to report zero file differences in the backups it has made so far, maybe my wisest step would be (no sarcasm implied here) to switch WHS off and find an alternative host for my three (new) hard drives, and my new copy of SyncBackSE, at least until the bug-fix is realeased!?
Perhaps my hope is in vain that I somehow fall among the apparently huge majority of WHS users who's system hardware will do a 100% thoroughly good job hosting WHS??? (That's a rhetorical question. No reply expected.)
But here's a real question: Is there really no testing or stress tool I can use to provoke this corruption on my system, or to prove that my system is not prone to the corruption problem? Do I have to run on hope?
(Sadly, I would reluctantly accept that Microsoft may choose not to release all the bug's finer details, for many reasons. But I had to ask anyway.)
So - I'm teetering. And it's only the techie part of me that is holding on.
Colin P.
-
- Hi,
I emphatically urge the WHS team to focus first on testing and releasing the data corruption bug fix.
More features mean there are more cases users may encounter the problem, as they will interact with the server more with the addition of new features. The scenarios for creating the problem while well understood by the technically inclined continues to grow for those who know little about whether they're replacing a file, not replacing a file, editing a file, etc.
The message of releasing new features before the very fundamental feature of reliably storing my files is backward.
Any time and testing that could possibly help get a fix for the corruption bug out faster should be Microsoft's top priority.
j. - I'm all for shipping the powerpack now. I can't really see why people would be against it, i'm sure microsoft wouldn't be considering shipping pp1 if was going to delay the corruption bug.
If its decided that its not going to be released now over windows update any chance of a standalone installer for those of us who want pp1 now? Darkone3 wrote: Release Power Pack One now. The only possible reason for not releasing it is it makes the corruption worse! If it doesn't do that then it should be released. It has the potential to help with the corruption! Please release it this week! Not next. If nessary then take some people from the team working on Vail to do what needs to be done, but release it already!
I agree, ship PP1 as soon as possible. I've had no data corruption issues, but would sure feel better if I could do data backup easily which PP1 sounds like it will do.
If it doesn't worsen corruption issues, backs up data before cooruption might occur, then get it out to the users!
My little rant: I feel Microsoft should suspend sales of WHS until the corruption bug is fixed. It should offer full refunds to the people that want to voluntarily quit using WHS becuase of the corruption bug or offer a free upgrade to v2 when it is released (one or the other or both). I know that this would be costly, but would sure make the users feel better after investing hard earned dollars in WHS and the problems that have been encountered.
CruiseI think DeVRag got it right....
A Check to see if the BUG got us yet...
If you are saying that there will be no delay in the data corruption bug fix, then I say release it...only becuase the backup to external hd of your shares might mitigate any problem arising from the bug....
Heres my situation:
2.5 TB storage, 3 drives
HP MediaMart Server ( which brings another problem ofthe SHADOW COPY feature being disabled and everyone being scared to enable it until we hear an official work why it was disabled).
And I dont do anything but stream from it for the fear of the BUG
One user said ( and Im paraphrasing ) ....I havent been hit by the bug....copy files on my hard drive, update them there, and transfer them back. And seemed to imply that the bug was not a big deal...how is this not a big deal?!?!? So I spent $1,000 ( with upgrades, etc ) on my server to be a CUT AND PASTE machine?!?!?
BOTTOM LINE: If it doesnt effect the bug fix, release it....but if it delays the fix, shelf it
I agree. The main feature im looking for is 64bit support for the WHS Connector software. Really need it as 3 computer sin my home are 64bit Vista systems. As many i have not noticed any corruption errors since i installed WHS and would be happy for the fix to be june and the PP ASAP for the 64bit support.
Release the 64-bit software! Please!
Some of my machines have no data to corrupt since they can't even connect because there is no 64-bit version.
My vote is for the release of PP1.
- I agree...PP1 should be released ASAP.
Yes. Agreed with that..
Benefits Analysis says....What are you waiting for? . . . SHIP IT!
You should release the already finished PP1 even though your still working on a bug fix. PP1 contains a collection of fixes...thats good. It contains 64-bit Connector...thats good. And more importantly...it adds the capability to backup your Shared Folders to external storage. Seems like a very worthy upgrade to me.
- Ship it. I really would like the 64-bit backup connector and the added remote features.
I must say, my hat is off to the spin control people at Microsoft.
Tell us in the morning that the corruption bug will not be fix for another 4 months at a minimum and in the afternoon throw a choice between Power Pack One and the corruption bug fix to us. As a comunity we are so very predictable. We will self destruct, as we fight over which comes first.People Power Pack One was out to the MVPs back in January remember att those great screen shots we saw of it? Give us the same power pack one you gave to the MVPs, it was good enough for them.
Microsoft is such a poor small company it's not like it has a lot of employees or a lot of programmers, who know how to write code. This is bull, WHS was not written by one man, or even a handful of people. Its four months between now and June, and if Microsoft can't release Power Pack One now and the corruption fix in June the hire some more bodies!
I'm not stupid, are you?
- Please ship the update. It's already been stated that the update is finished and won't hold up progress on the bug fix. I am looking to upgrade my Vista Ultimate machine from 32 bit to 64 bit and this is really the only thing holding me back. I'd also really like to use the "wake from sleep" feature and the server backup feature. Ship it!
YES!! I really need the 64-bit connector! Even if you don't release the rest, please just release this...please!
pq
- I love my Home Server and beg you to release PP1 as soon as possible. My family and I use it daily remotely and some of the additions that PP1 are things that we have been waiting on with bated breath. Thank you for such a GREAT product. I sing its praises daily and do not know how I ever got along without it.
Nathan - Another vote for shipping PP1.
- Let's Get on with it. If you have code written for the corruption bug and are testing it. Then Dust off PP1 and get it to us!
Colin P, forgive me, I'm only an amateur - and this is a little off-topic. But aren't you 'over-testing'? - introducing variables that mightn't be there in normal use?
I'm using three drives on WHS too. I built the (anti-corruption) redundancy on my system into the two desktops: extra drives to carry the master copy of everything important (backed up automatically daily). The shared files in WHS therefore are only copies. Everybody streams from WHS - no 'editing'. Any 'editing' work of any kind is done on the client-located masters then uploaded/sync'ed to WHS. I copy/move/sync to/from WHS using Directory Opus - not, strictly, the Explorer or command-line utility (i.e. Robocopy) as advised. No corruption since Dec 2007. How much confidence can I have in 'no corruption'? Believe me, much work goes on this network (including whilst it's backing up, balancing, etc etc), plenty of stress - but it's all 'normal' stress. Confidence? Cautious - but each day I use my rules without corruption makes me a little less so. And I think, with software and hardware, that's about as good as one can ever expect...
Bill
My vote is to ship PP1.
DevRag wrote: I think MS should provide some sort of utility with PP1 to check data integrity.
It would be disaster to back up data using PP1 to external HDD and then 2 years later to find out that data was already corrupted.
My preferences are in order that …
1- Provide us with a tool to check existing data first
2- Release PP1
3- Release fix when you ready
I agree. I really wish there was a way to test for corrupted data on WHS.
Beyond that, I say release PP1 now since it won't impact the schedule for the bug fix.
-Tom
One of the main complaints about WHS (besides the minor little Data Corruption bug
) is the lack of a 64-bit connector. Since backups are not affected, this feature alone would help many users deal with the corruption bug until the fix is released. So since the code is written and the Corruption bug fix is going to take a few more months why not release it?
Doing so would probably generate some positive comments that this product desperately needs at this time.
Plus I want to grant remote access to users and have them not see the computers tab, which I believe is a feature of PP1. I really don't want to wait until June for that!!
- Another vote for releasing PP1 ASAP. It seems that it is ready, and we really need that 64 bit connector ASAP.
Thanks! Yep also agree. As long as it doesn't interfere with fixing that bug then why not?
Jeevs wrote: Another vote for releasing PP1 ASAP. It seems that it is ready, and we really need that 64 bit connector ASAP.
Thanks!
Power Pack 1 now please... I need the 64 bit WHS connector ASAP too.- Bring on Power Pack 1 and the server back-up functionality as soon as possible.
- I say bring it out now. Then release the data corruption update when that is done in June. I have had no issues with data corruption.
- I agree that the lack of a 64-bit connector is huge for me, so releasing the Power Pack 1 package is a priority that is not connected to the data corruption bug fix in my mind. If there's no deependency on the data corruption fix (and it sounds like there is not), then the best course of action is to release the other features ASAP. I think that will go a long way toward maintaining viability and interest, too.
However, if there are additional risks associated with releasing PP1 before the data corruption fix is released, it's important to make sure people are aware. Doesn't look like that's the case, but of course it should be considered.
Please dust off PP1 - and thanks for looking to the community for input.
greg - I vote for the release there are many features I would like to have that it addresses.
Just another vote for the release of PP1. Keep the corruption fix separate from this.Yes, so long as it doesn't further delay the data corruption fix, release PP1 now.
- Please release Power Pack 1. Like many others, I need the 64-bit connector too.
I would say that as long as releasing PP1 soon does not slow down or impact the bug fix MS should do it. If for no other reason than to keep up interest in the user base and to help repair the badly damaged reputation of the WHS product.
- My vote is for now. No point in delaying what could help with some of the issues. Being able to backup the server as well as the x64 connector will help me a great deal.
I'm curious if there are any other undocumented bug fixes in the power pack? If it's not affected by the data corruption bug then release it. I'm moving to Vista x64 in a month and I would like to be able to use the x64 connector.
Hi Bill,
bllr wrote: Colin P, forgive me, I'm only an amateur - and this is a little off-topic. But aren't you 'over-testing'? - introducing variables that mightn't be there in normal use?
Over-testing ... no. Not until I know my data hasn't been got-at by the bug, or until I know it has (which would neatly and ironically clarify my options).
By over-testing I assume you mean those additional verify phases (re my post at 11pm UTC on Monday/yesterday), but I'm only running those extra scans as a search for (any) broken data. And I'm running them deliberately days after the backup task that first stored them on WHS. Once the fix has been released and has proven itself, I expect I'll become fully trusting of WHS and be able to drop those extra verify checks.
bllr wrote: Cautious - but each day I use my rules without corruption makes me a little less so.
My sense of unease would drop a little each day too if it wasn't for the unpredictable nature of the corruption bug. I see my extra steps simply as avoiding complacency - until I know for certain that my data is no more vulnerable to corruption than it would be with any 'normal' storage medium (nothing's perfect yet, sadly).
And - like you, in the meantime I'm also using my PC's hard drives for that extra essential redundancy.
Regards,
Colin P.
DevRag wrote: I have suffered data corruption and lost 300+ photos. Since then I changed my WHS to single HDD, but I am still not sure how many other files have been already corrupted.
I know that Microsoft is still actively soliciting reproducible instances of file corruption, so I have to ask: Have you contacted them at whsforum@microsoft.com and posted a bug on Connect?Surely if the PowerPack is stabilised and complete and it's release will not cause the existing data corruption issue to get any worse, then release it.
Whilst the data corruption issue is serious, it has been identified, reproduced and effective workarounds publicly disclosed. In my opinion the benefit of an x64 connector and the other assorted new functionality in PP1 outweighs the need to wait to incorporate the corruption fix.
Ship!!
JesD wrote: One user said ( and Im paraphrasing ) ....I havent been hit by the bug....copy files on my hard drive, update them there, and transfer them back. And seemed to imply that the bug was not a big deal...how is this not a big deal?!?!? So I spent $1,000 ( with upgrades, etc ) on my server to be a CUT AND PASTE machine?!?!? Since you are referring to my post, I will respond in kind:
I have never, ever ONCE said it was not a big deal, nor was that what I was implying in any way, shape, or form (I've purposely avoided making comments in the continual "WHEN IS IT GOING TO BE FIXED???" posts here because of the monotonous rants that go on and on and on in those, which end up having no productive value at all). Of course the data corruption issue is a huge problem. Of course MS is working on it. Of course the patch will be released when it's been properly tested and proven to work (whether it's June, July, August, or later). (And yes, having to copy the file, then edit it, then move it back is a PITA.) My point is: as MS has already said, there are a couple workarounds that work until the patch is released. Since the code for PP1 is already done (which will keep the team focused on fixing the data corruption problem) and installing it will, I assume, not make the problem any worse, why not release PP1 now?
I also support shipping PP1 for reasons previously mentioned, most especially because it would allow back-up of data, thus helping to prevent corruption, or at least allowing you to fix it if something does become corrupt.
-R
- Knowing that the home server team has a current estimate of June, 2008 for the fix for the data corruption issue, do people believe that the team should "dust off" the Power Pack 1 code and release prior to a fix for the data corruption issue?
Yes. Please release PP1 ASAP. Many of us really need full support for 64-bit Vista.
A release prior to the fix would at least give us an easier way to back up the server and/or shared folders. That would be useful in the unlikely event of corruption.
Woody963 wrote: A release prior to the fix would at least give us an easier way to back up the server and/or shared folders. That would be useful in the unlikely event of corruption.
FYI, PP1 does not allow you to backup the whole "server" (only the data stored in the network shares as well as the client PC backups, not the WHS OS partition itself).
Ship PP1 Now Please.....!!!
If you are an HP MediaSmart owner-------PP1 is even more important as I was told by HP that they were going to ship THEIR promised extra goodies (Free AV,video packet tecnology, etc) when MS released PP1.....
And if it has no effect on the "bug" one way or another...
Why not???
To let it sit on the shelf seems pointless......
It also takes the sting out of waiting till June for the bug fix.
calidan wrote: If it's not affected by the data corruption bug then release it. I'm moving to Vista x64 in a month and I would like to be able to use the x64 connector.
We are also thinking about moving to vista x64 when vista sp1 is released.... While these data corruption issues are disastrous, I think getting more features out the door is a better route... as long as PP release will have minimal impact on the release of the data fix.
I am a bit surprised it is going to take until June to get this out... I've said april/may all along though... Oh, well, is what it is....
Even if PP is not released, I think the x64 connector should be put on the web for people to download... Heck, I doubt if it is tied into the PP anyway considering how the x32 connector works. Makes no sense to attempt to say "all or nothing." guess that would mess up the marketing department, but what the heck.
Chalk up another 'yes' vote for releasing Power Pack 1 now.
T. Headrick wrote: I moved this from being a response in the KB update thread to being a separate thread.
We have always planned on holding the release of Power Pack 1 until we had the data corruption issue resolved. The Power Pack 1 code was "put on the shelf" in early January, as the team switched focus to working on the data corruption issue. There is some new functionality in Power Pack 1 like the ability to backup your Shared Folders to an external hard drive attached to your home server that some home server users have asked us to ship. There also is some new remote access functionality (photo thumbnails, multi-file uploads), and a collection of fixes.
Knowing that the home server team has a current estimate of June, 2008 for the fix for the data corruption issue, do people believe that the team should "dust off" the Power Pack 1 code and release prior to a fix for the data corruption issue?
Please Pretty Please release it today.
- Yes, please release ASAP. I like many others do not have data problems and need the 64 bit connector so I can backup all my systems wirh WHS.
- My preference is that, if there is any work of any amount needed to get the PP out, all efforts be put towards the Data Corruption fix. I have not had the corruption problem only because I have not utilized my server for anything other than backup at this point. This is an unhappy state of affairs as the media sharing was 75% of the reason for which I purchased my HP Mediasmart server.
Todd
Now for my techinical reasoning for releasing Power Pack 1 NOW.
As stated WHS with one(1) Drive is not affected by the " Data" bug and such WHS will not have duplication, therefore if you have a Multi -Drive WHS and you do not add all dives to the Storage Pool and then use the Power Pack feature to "Back up" your "Shared Folders" to the Non Storage Pool Drive/s you will be creating "Duplication " of your "Shared Folders" without risking "Data" loss by the "Data Bug"
Additionally the other features are compelling enough to release it even if you tag it as a "Beta" and only make it available to this Forum.
Thanks and please correct my logic if need be.
PS I did not read evey entry in this post so I hope I not repeating a previous posting with the same logic.
- Release it sooner rather than later . . .
Greetings,
Focus on fixing the data corruption bug. Dust off and resume work on Power Pack 1 only when the issue solved, plain and simple.
Your customers, including myself, are relying on the Windows Home Server product in their day-to-day lives. Granted, many people, including myself, have our important data backed up six ways from Sunday. I'm using the Jungle Disk add- on to ensure that my essential data is backed up off site. However, users who do that are the exception. I would say that the prime candidates that you're aiming for with this product are not going to think ahead like that. They will buy an HP Mediasmart server and trust their lives to it. When the data corruption bug bites them, they won't blame themselves for not being prepared, they'll blame Microsoft and the reputation of Windows Home Server will suffer.
To be honest with you, I have not noticed or been affected by this much advertised bug. My opinion, and experience, is that it has been totally blown out of proportion. However, the impression is everything these days and people expect a product like this to be perfect. Any hint of problems, even potential ones, will cause people to think twice before investing in the product. I was in and invested before the bug came to light. Whether or not it would have affected my decision to forge ahead with my Home Server build I can't say. I probably would have gone ahead anyway, but again, I'm the exception.
The data corruption bug tarnishes the reputation of the product, plain and simple. Until you get it fixed, don't focus any amount of effort anywhere else.
I've been involved with Windows Home Server since the early days of Beta 2. When the RTM version finally came out and was available I excitedly bought it and installed it on my server hardware. It sits in the closet and it just works, day after day. It is quite simply fantastic. However, in some people's eyes it is tarnished because of the slim possibility of data corruption.
So, squash the darn bug and then move on to bigger things. As much as I'm looking forward to the new features Power Pack 1 will bring, I'm happy to wait if that means this operating system will have a sure future. I'd hate to see it wither away and die because of word of mouth. The expectations of the masses are sky high these days. Do your best to meet them.
Cheers,
Jeff
theog wrote: I am a bit surprised it is going to take until June to get this out... I've said april/may all along though... Oh, well, is what it is....
Even if PP is not released, I think the x64 connector should be put on the web for people to download... Heck, I doubt if it is tied into the PP anyway considering how the x32 connector works. Makes no sense to attempt to say "all or nothing." guess that would mess up the marketing department, but what the heck.
Sorry to surprise you, but coding a fix at the kernel layer and running manual tests and stress tests to make sure you got it right takes time.
Things are intricately tied together. The x64 Connector allows you to configure backups for computers running Windows Vista x64. The Windows Home Server Console has to be updated to deal with x64 machines. The virtual disk driver that is used when a user clicks the Open Backup button in the Console had to be rewritten so it works with x64 machines.
p.s. Snide remark about the Windows Home Server marketing team ignored.
Please release it as soon as possible. The current lack of 64bit client is a major gap in the product.
Cheers
Dave
Dave Moyle wrote: Please release it as soon as possible. The current lack of 64bit client is a major gap in the product.
Yip agree. Although I think the data corruption bug is a major and want it fixed if the PP can be released with no to extremely little impact on the fix then Please release. I currently cannot backup my main PC (Vista 64). To me that is a biggie.Release it, features like those noted are what keep people interested in the product. We will not look at the PP as a sign Microsoft is not working on the corruption issue
As I am sure the business managers can hear the class action attorneys banging on the doors of the WHS lab, I am confident the corruption issue will be resolved and long gone in the near future.
Keep up the good fight, WHS is great.
Please ship the Power Pack... release a hotfix when complete. How hard is that?Count me in on the "release it now" camp. My main games machine is running Vista x64 and it's been very annoying not being able to have it backed up with the rest of my home network. I'm also looking forward to the thumbnails when accessing the home server remotely, but that's more a "nice to have". Please, please, please release PP1 now and I can stop checking the homeserver blog and wegotserved every couple of hours looking for it.
Barny
I vote for releasing PP1 right away.
Many WHS users have only a single drive and thus MS should not hold artificially PP1 because of the corruption issue.
It may be difficult to explain how come PP1 gets out without the corruption fix, but if everything else is pretty much finished then why delay it artificially 3 more months?
Yves
My vote is to put all new products on hold until the current corruption problem has been fully solved and patched. I don't like that we must "hope" we are not bitten by this bug on our systems that backup and store all our data for at least my house, 5 computers worth. I've put a lot of time and money into building a large WHS and now am told I can't trust it. And worst yet, I must wait another 3 months for the solution and fix. This is NOT acceptable.
Put all your techs on the job to fix the corruption bug and when that is done then let them get back to working on the new features with PP1. That's my vote.
Release PP1, hopefully it will allow me to take a clean snapshot before I get hit by a corruption given the "server" backup is backing up the data that is at risk. It is part of the process moving towards the eventual fix. Thats reason enough. The rest will be a bonus (I dont have any x64).
Please release the PP1 code base ASAP! We WHS users need a quick 'boost'.
I imagine this release wouldn't even be entertained if it could cause problems.Backing up of WHS servers (not data) looks like a GREAT idea to roll out right now!
A small note to some of the haters out there - apart from a couple of minor teething issues with a .net service pack, my WHS so far has been fabulous. Stable, running night and day for nearly 6 months now. Yeah I havn't hacked it to bits but it's got 8 hard drives (all mirrored) and over 3 terabytes of storage and has done everything it's meant to.
Big thumbs up to the WHS team, I know how hard it must be when you launched such a great new product...all was looking rosey and then something you never expected in the bowels of Windows 2k3 rears it's head.PP1 will sure make me (and no doubt a bunch of others) a much happier camper...
...err just get the patch out sooner rather then later.
Cheers,
Cat
Cue the playing of a Syberian spice miners song...the team no doubt are going to be teathered to their desks for this one!
visualechodesigns wrote: Tinue wrote: Actually, the feature of Power Pack 1 that I need urgently is the 64 bit WHS connector.
Agreed.
I want to concur with this sentiment. I don't consider WHS a final product until both the data corruption bug is fixed and I get a 64 bit connector.
Other new features aren't needed and I don't care about any of them right now.
If it's stable and therefore won't introduce new issues and you can support it then release PP1 now
We sure need some positive news out there
- Its very simple really. If PP1 is ready and does not effect the data corruption bug issue any further then release it. MS can only be asking this question if PP1 may still have planned changes between now and June, that may end up moving to PP2. Its seems from reading responses that the x64 connector and the backup is what people are wanting and should really been available from the initial release.
Ken Warren wrote: DevRag wrote: I have suffered data corruption and lost 300+ photos. Since then I changed my WHS to single HDD, but I am still not sure how many other files have been already corrupted.
I know that Microsoft is still actively soliciting reproducible instances of file corruption, so I have to ask: Have you contacted them at whsforum@microsoft.com and posted a bug on Connect?No Ken, I have not. but I will report this to WHS team ASAP. I am not 100% sure what caused the corruption but it think it was due to rotating photos directly on WHS.
Thanks Ken.
My Best,
My vote is to release PP1 now.
- My vote is to release it now.
- I vote to release PP1 now as well so that it can be debugged before June and any fixes appliied. With the upcoming release of XP sp3 there may be a bunch of new trouble just waiting to be found. And how far away can server 2003 sp3 be- a year or so?
T. Headrick wrote: I moved this from being a response in the KB update thread to being a separate thread.
We have always planned on holding the release of Power Pack 1 until we had the data corruption issue resolved. The Power Pack 1 code was "put on the shelf" in early January, as the team switched focus to working on the data corruption issue. There is some new functionality in Power Pack 1 like the ability to backup your Shared Folders to an external hard drive attached to your home server that some home server users have asked us to ship. There also is some new remote access functionality (photo thumbnails, multi-file uploads), and a collection of fixes.
Knowing that the home server team has a current estimate of June, 2008 for the fix for the data corruption issue, do people believe that the team should "dust off" the Power Pack 1 code and release prior to a fix for the data corruption issue?
My vote would be to release PP1, possibly as an optional download, rather than on Windows Update.
That way those that want to take advantage of the server backup facility can reduce the HDDs in the server to one, and still protect the data.
I, like most, would think that it is stupid to run a server on a single drive. In this scenario it would be the only safe way to operate! And then to back up to an external at least is some protection.
Am I correct in believing that a hardware RAID solution would be unaffected, as long as the array appears to WHS as a single drive? I know this goes against the flexiblity of Drive Extender, but a basic controller and mirrored pair would solve a lot of peoples issues.
The x64 connector would also be appreciated, I was very surprised this wasn't in at launch.
Thanks,
John
- Release the PP1 "ASAP" -please!
I think that this should be released at this point as a step in the right direction. I only use WHS to backup files and folders for others. In other words the only thing that happens for me at this point in time is make documents and so forth available for others. There is no editing or changing of documents for me in my environment at this point. I will move forward in the future with this but until the bug is fixed I haven't even introduced editing or modifying to others.
The benefits that are in PP1 need to be out so others will start to use them, there is a lot of good things people can use in these.
By looking at the work arounds in the KB if I needed to I could go that direction if needed, my input is to release as soon as possible for PP1.
- Fix the fundamentals - FIRST. This data corruption bug could kill the product. I know I have had to shift my desired usage and cross my fingers almost daily that my 600Gb of info doesn't get corrupted...
- As has been mentioned by others:
If it will not impact the release of the data corruption fix (and I understand that it will not), release PP1 asap. The backup to external hard drive feature could save data before it gets corrupted. One person mentioned that they would like to see something that would detect corruption. That is a great idea. If the corruption is detectable, this could help people out a great deal. I would love to know now if I have corrupted data now. As opposed to waiting until I happen to be going through some pictures a year from now and wham! - please release PP1 asap. many people want to have the x64-connector and the whs-backup to an external hdd.the corruption bug does not affect all whs users, because not all use these progs.
- Power Pack 1 represents two key capabilities for my self. 64-bit compatibility and the abilty to backup the WHS itself. I can easly make all my WHS accounts read only which means I've more risk in the delay of PP1 then the data corruption issue.
If it just needs "dusting off" and isn't detrimental to the progress of the corruption issue then please just release it. If PP1 contains anything which could be effected by this bug then I'd rather wait.
Besides wanting the 64-bit connector, the ability to backup data directly from the server would help alleviate my concerns about data integrity.
T. Headrick wrote: I moved this from being a response in the KB update thread to being a separate thread.
We have always planned on holding the release of Power Pack 1 until we had the data corruption issue resolved. The Power Pack 1 code was "put on the shelf" in early January, as the team switched focus to working on the data corruption issue. There is some new functionality in Power Pack 1 like the ability to backup your Shared Folders to an external hard drive attached to your home server that some home server users have asked us to ship. There also is some new remote access functionality (photo thumbnails, multi-file uploads), and a collection of fixes.
Knowing that the home server team has a current estimate of June, 2008 for the fix for the data corruption issue, do people believe that the team should "dust off" the Power Pack 1 code and release prior to a fix for the data corruption issue?
T.Headrick,
I have not been bitten by the data corruption issue, but that will not affect my decission on what the WHS Team should work on first.
I consider this a business decision rather than a convenience decision. Long term reliability is more important than short term convenience. The data corruption issue is a big one. It affects the foundation of what WHS is! I don't know the actual data behind how many users that are affected by the corruption issue, but that should play a big part on this decision.
Basically, the data corruption issue should be first, period. If the WHS team has some extra man hours or OT is budgeted, then ok work on Power Pack 1 at the same time. But don't put off fixing a core function and reliability issue. That's just smart business and product management. Whatever the decision-Don't delay the corruption fix by a single day!
I'd much rather have a product that I can rely on 100% than get thumbnails and 64 bit functionality. Basically, I'd rather have a steak and potato for dinner than get a candy bar instead.
I'd release PP1 if it's ready as it solves 2 things I've been after since the beta releases:
1. x64 Support.
2. External backup of the WHS device.
Not had the data corruption problem although I have 4 drives and use replication on all folders. I've even updated documents direct from the WHS share and "so far" no problems although now I have copied files locally to edit/update them just in case.
Regards
Do bear in mind that it isn't always practical to point the whole of a development team at one issue. As long as the right guys are looking at the corruption problem and have all the resource they think the need, there's no issue to block development on other planned changes.As I've said in the past, features like 64-bit connectors, and backing up the server itself, should have really been a part of the product from day one.
If they are ready, tested, and verified for not causing any new problems, I say release them now. As far as I'm concered, they can be released as hotfixes or optional updates, and include them later in an official release of PP1.
The way I use my two HP WHS boxes I have no data corruption problems. I would very much like to see PP 1 released as soon as possible. Also, I really would to be able to back up my "main" data WHS box to the secondary one. I run them on two separate networks in my home. One is on wireless and one is on the ethernet. They will not "see" each other and this is very frustrating.
- I would say based on these features, server backup options and WHS 64 bit connector, PP1 should be released now. With the assumption that releasing PP1 will not take resources away from the data corruption bug.
My problem is that the current date for the bug fix is June, but this is only an ESTIMATE it could be much later than June, do we really need to continue waiting for the PP1. Is there any update from MS on the possiblility of releasing PP1 yet?
TLE.
Yes, please release the power pack 1 now.
Maybe instead of making it part of automatic update, you could make it a download that people could choose to download if they want it.
Thank you.
Please release PP1 ASAP...
If for nothing else having the ability to backup all my current shares to an attached USB for safe keeping incase what I have now gets corrupt. At least then I will have a backup since I am not adding anything new to my Home Server.
It would be good to release PP1 before the data corruption fix, for two reasons:
1) PP1 provides some good features, and
2) It would separate any issues that might arise from the corruption fix.
I think the fix for the data corruption problem should be released on its own.
- Right now my main desktop and laptop are both running Vista 64. Unfortunately my Windows Home Server utilization is substantially limited for backups until PP1 comes out (I purchased the HP WHS box once I learned that PP1 was coming). Since I understand the data corruption issue, I can adapt my behaviours so I don't get hit by it. PP1 enables a major piece of functionality for the WHS product for me.
This is why PP1 is much more important to me than the the data corruption bug fix. Plus, based what the WHS team has said here, getting PP1 early won't substantially delay the data corruption bug fix! So, I think its a no-brainer. - I think that it would be irresonsible for Microsoft not to release PP1. At this point it appears the PP1 is finished and contains a way to safely backup the data contained on the WHS thus minimizing the risk of the data corruption bug. If PP1 is release it would be a good way for MS to extend the Olive branch an help the community gain some trust in thier WHS systems again. Being able to back up your files from the WHS is a feature that has been requested since day 1 and I can't help but wonder that if it was available then how many people would have been able to recover thier data that was lost when it became corrupt.
I am always of the opinion that you should get the foundations right first, if there are any bugs in PP1 that causes a similar issue to the corruption problem it will be harder to identify and may lengthen the time taken to issue the fix.
Currently my WHS is “untrusted”, I am purposely not using it the way I would like due to the possibility of corruption, I am therefore investing in additional storage in other PCs and just using WHS for backup, to avoid the issue.
If the 64bit support is client only, I see no reason why it shouldn’t be split from PP1 and delivered now.
I would however say that MS should consider making the next full version of WHS available FOC to those of us that are patiently waiting to use our WHS for the purpose it was intended.
- I say release PP1 if it's not going to interfere with data corruption testing. Also if Microsoft does decide to release PP1, they should let us know ASAP if it's a go, or no go before this thread gets larger than life, and goes on for months before we hear their decision just like the data corruption thread.
- The 64-bit WHS connector is critical to me. My vote is to release Power Pack 1 ASAP, or, alternatively, just release the 64-bit connector.
visualechodesigns wrote: Tinue wrote: Actually, the feature of Power Pack 1 that I need urgently is the 64 bit WHS connector.
Also Agreed!
- I totally agree.
As I do need Vista 64Bit Support: as sooner as better for me; I also like the other features coverd by PP1 to be implemented in my environment.
After reading through the 9 pages of this thread it is obvious that the vast majority of users would like PP1 released now.
So when should everyone expect a decision to be made on the release date of PP1?
- Please release PP1 Sooner than later.
Thx for your hard work WHS teeam! - I'm also using Vista 64 on my main rig at home. So please release the PP1 soon.
Tinue wrote: Actually, the feature of Power Pack 1 that I need urgently is the 64 bit WHS connector.
Agreed! I say release the powerpack, if it does not in any way impact the work or releease of the corruption issue.Please give us the Power Pack 1 as soon as possible. I desperately need the 64bit compatability. Now that the data corruption problem is known and measures can be taken to avoid it I find that fix third in line behind the 64bit compatability and the ability to back up the server.
Thanks for considering our opinions!
My vote is also for releasing PP1 as soon as possible.
PP1 is able to mitigate the bug by providing the option to back-up the server. In addition, there are a lot of people (including me) running Vista x64. Currently, I am unable to make back-ups of my x64 machine, which means my data is even less protected than when I would be running WHS and be able to make back-ups. Even though I might suffer from the data corruption, my data would still be more protected than without being able to use the x64 back-up functionality of PP1.
At the moment I don't even have a WHS yet, as I've been waiting for both the x64 connector and the data corruption issue to be fixed. However, PP1 will enable me to start using it, as it will give me more back-up options than currently available. I've reasoned the data corruption bug doesn't really matter for new users - like me. We can simply opt to install WHS (with PP1) to a RAID-1 array and make back-ups to an external device. When the fix is out, I can switch from RAID-1 to WHS DE by simply removing one drive from the array (effectively disabling RAID) and moving it to the storage pool with DE.
I really hope you will give us Power Pack 1 as soon as possible, especially if it will be lying on the shelf for another 3+ months otherwise. And indeed thanks for listening to the community on this one!
- I'm another one for releasing PP1 now. I have had corrupted data, so removed one hard drive, and will not put back in until fix arrives. So give us the PP1 extras now.
Another vote for releasing PP1 ASAP.
This isn't an either/or issue. The corruption fix will take as long as it takes to fix and PP1 is nearly ready to go and offers clear benefits to users now.
The majority of WHS users want PP1 now and understand that releasing it now will have minimal (if any) affect on the release date for the corruption fix.And anyone that doesn't understand that, there probably isn't anything that can be done to satisfy them until the corruption fix is ready.
- Release PP1 asap.
Also using Vista 64bits here, would like to have the PP1 as soon as possible.
Thanks
- I don't know what other functions are included in PP1, but I'd like to see the backup and 64-bit connector parts released if they're ready.
Yes please. Whilst I do not have 64bit Vista, yet I will get it soon. The features I really want are the backup of the backup and the extended remote log-on time. Getting kicked off part way through an up/download is a pain in the ........
Simon
- Another vote to release when ready!
I agree...release it asap. I have bunch of IDE HDDs that would love to be extra backup of my WHS.- Please release PP1 asap so that least we can properly back up our WHS shares.
I bought my WHS to backup the machines on my network, mainly my Vista Ultimate x64 machine - which I was ultra mad about after reading the specs, seeing it was compatible with Vista Ultimate thus buying WHS, then finding out not Ultimate x64! I didn't even realize there was a x32 Ultimate. Stupid x64 causing me more grief! I need x64 support immediately!!!!- Ditto on the need for a 64 bit WHS Connector!
I vote for releasing it NOW...the 64 bit support is what I'm most interested in...
THANKS! This is a truly WONDERFUL product!
Just to pile on to the masses: yes, since the biggest missing feature for me has been the x64 connector. Making that available would be great (and would mitigate some of my risk of having my media collection on the server...)
Yup. Agreed. I have nothing but Windows x64 Pro clients and a nice big WHS boat anchor. Waiting patiently for PP1
Another qualified vote to "pile on": If, has has been suggested, releasing or not releasing PP1 will make no difference on the date fo the bug fix, then release it.
Claim releasing it was "being responsive to customer inputs". Claim it "helps customers obtain some measure of mitigation from the corruption issue--by enabling back up of the shares--while a fully tested, solid, fix is developed." Claim that it "adds great features to the WHS product while we continue to work on giving it the great data integrity it needs". In short, try to get some positive press for it in the face of all the negative press it's getting for this long delayed delivery of fundamental data integrity it should have had from day 1.
T. Headrick-
All my PC's are running x64 Vista (2 desktops, 1 laptop).
The data corruption but is definately an issue and I think it is important to move forward with this. However, I know many many people that are really waiting for the x64 connector software to come out before they will purchase Home Server. I for one was waiting but the price point that I was looking for with the HP EX470 came back around and I got in on a deal this week.
So my vote, and it seems really obvious to me, is to release the PP1 software ASAP. It is really in desperate need to the community and it would definately get people that are on the fence to purchase a home server.
Just my opinion,
Steve B.
Please release Power Pack 1. We need the 64 bit connector.jbenfield wrote: Yup. Agreed. I have nothing but Windows x64 Pro clients and a nice big WHS boat anchor. Waiting patiently for PP1
Umm, not 100% positive that this has changed, but I heard that ONLY x64 Vista would be supported. This would mean that XP Pro x64 would NOT be supported.
Again things might have changed recently but this was the news the last time I heard.
-Steve
RELEASE SP1, June release fix for data corruption:
In my environment I have both an HP w/WHS full time and a separate WHS for testing. My vote is with the many asking for the release of SP1. Neither of my systems have experienced a Bug of any sort and/or kind. The functionality of SP1 is a wonderful Plus for all WHS owners. My family and friends are really looking forward to Icon photos, as opposed to file names. Myself; I am looking forward to all the SP1 enhancements, especially the remote back-up capability. To the Tune "Please Release Me..."I could really use the x64 connector ASAP. Really sucks not being able to back up the most important machine in my house.
I need the PP1 and think if it is ready there is no need to wait. I think you should release anything that is completed as soon as possible.
- Please release at lesat the x64 connector!
- I got the WHS mainly to backup all the computers at home and the one which contains all of my critical data is the Vista x64 system. I bought WHS because I thought the PP1 would be released any time soon. (Spring?) I'd say the x64 connector release is needed ASAP. My friends and colleagues won't even believe me when I said that Microsoft released a server OS which is not even compatible with its own flagship product.
Please release ASAP. I guess I don't understand why this would even be a question. If Power Pack 1 is ready to go, feature complete, yada, yada, yada, then you should definitely release it!
Obviously the absolute first priority is getting the corruption bug taken care of. I would say that if it was a year ago and you had this information, and you were wondering if WHS should be released in it's current state, then obviously you wouldn't release it. However, it's already out there, and having the update doesn't affect the corruption issue one way or the other (unless the tweaks you are going to need to do to fix the corruption issue is going to cause problems with the power pack itself).
However, the power pack does take care of the 64bit support, etc so at least we can use the WHS as a full backup solution, even if we're leery about media sharing, etc.
If you guys come up with a way to scan for the type of corrupted files you are likely to see, that would sure be icing on the cake. But only after we can get this bug fixed so it doesn't continue to happen.
Yes..
- Now would be good.
- I'd be interested in at least testing the power pack, and can use several of the features immediately. I vote to release it. Jim
- Another vote for releasing PP1 ASAP
We would love to see that 64 bit connector
Thanx I back up by share folders to an on-line site now but the Recorded TV that I deem "High Value”, mostly my movie collection, is just too big to upload. Therefore I back that up to an external drive using Sync Toy, version 1.4.0.0. It would be nice to have the “server backup feature” to further automate my existing server backup procedures. I would like to move to the Sync Toy 2.0 beta and have not done so because of the data corruption bug, but that is the only reason I can think of to delay the PP1 release and I am happy to be restricted to version 1.4.0.0 to get the many benefits of PP1. In my opinion it is important to be “testing” PP1 in a wider environment now instead of later when the bug is fixed. I understand others will not agree with my opinion. Of course, that is their right and I respect that right.
I have actually experienced the data corruption bug. My specific circumstances have been reported and documented by the WHS team, but the bug appears in only one specific incident and the team has given me a work around which has worked successfully for the several month period since the work around was offered. The team also has a copy of the executable file in its corrupt state and in its uncorrupt state. The file is a large executable (about 40MB) that is corrupted only when the file is copied directly to the server from the internet. The corruption never did happen immediately, and only occasionally happed to some of the files copied directly to the server. I do not know if the bug still exists because the work around offered has me coping the file to a workstation instead of the server. I “unblock” the file before moving it to the server. If I use this work around, I have never seen the bug again. As a test for further testing for the bug after the work around, I even execute the file from the server and still have never seen the bug after employing the work around. I get a new file from the internet (weekly stock data) each week. I recognize the bug is a concern for many and I understand why. However, the bug seems to be controlled/contained in the environment in which I operate so it is much more important to me to get the benefits of PP1 at this point in time. I do not take any chances with editing share folder files and the restrictions the WHS team has specified to avoid the bug do not bother me.
I think WHS is a great product, and frankly, I do not agree with the fuss that has been raised over the bug. Yes, I do get it. Having the potential for data corruption is a severe problem. I would prefer that the bug did not exist, but I cannot help but express my opinion of not understanding the fuss because of the work around the team has provided me and the, in my opinion, “mild restrictions” one can employ to avoid the bug. I suppose I might feel different if I had lost a lot of important data, but that has just not happened to me. I have used WHS since May, 2007 and find it to be one of the best things that have happened to me in my 25 years of using PCs. BTW, I am not a MS fan boy except when it comes to using WHS. That MS team and the product they have produced is exceptional in my opinion.
Ok I am off my soap box now. Todd, please add my vote to the many I have seen here to go ahead and release the great benefits the team apparently has ready for testing. The testing of the PP1 release is more important to me than fixing the bug. Yes, fix the bug but not first.
- One more vote for releasing PowerPack 1 prior to a fix for the data corruption issue.
The features im need the most is the backup-to-external-harddrive feature and the 64-bit connector... One more vote for PP1 and 64-bit connector. Today would be fine...
Ned Buckmaster
- I would like the data corruption bug fixed as a priority over anything else. I have just invested in a WHS system and added 3 disks to the single disk set up that I purchased. I hear that the bug only affects multiple disk systems so I have been trying to remove the other disks but each time I try the removal process hangs. So I'm stuck being unable to trust the WHS system as a safe store for my data.This is all a bit of a mess.
This is my first post on this forum and as a constant site reader this is the first time I felt that I must add my voice. I'm also one of the many who use Vista x64 and the inability to backup has been a really headache. I remember seeing the first news of the power pack and thought fantastic; finally I will be able to use WHS across my complete network, no more external drive for backups. We need this as a solution as soon as possible not just for the connector but also peace of mind with the ability to backup the server.
Yes, Please release PP1!
Thanks!
Torpex wrote: If you guys come up with a way to scan for the type of corrupted files you are likely to see, that would sure be icing on the cake.
Just an aside: all of this talk of a corruption detector tool assumes that the OS could somehow tell a valid file from a corrupt one. This, in turn, presumes that the OS would have to know the logical layout of files for every application/file type it could check for and/or that every application and/or file type builds integrity check values or similar into their files. The only other hope would be for the OS to compute/correctly update some kind of message digest hash(es) for the ENTIRE file (or its parts) when any part of the file was updated. Doing that correctly on the fly is probably an order of magnitude harder to do than getting the data written right in the first place and that, apparently, was too hard to get right the first time.
As it has been described, this problem is not like, say, a disk error at the physical level that was protected against or at least detectable because the drive hardware writes CRC/ECC data computed at the same time each sector of real data was written. This is more a case where the app wants to store ABCDEF and, for whatever reason, the server tells the disk to store ABC!@#. Once it's written to the disk that way, it's too late to tell it's not what the application really intended.
Dick Watson wrote: As it has been described, this problem is not like, say, a disk error at the physical level that was protected against or at least detectable because the drive hardware writes CRC/ECC data computed at the same time each sector of real data was written. This is more a case where the app wants to store ABCDEF and, for whatever reason, the server tells the disk to store ABC!@#. Once it's written to the disk that way, it's too late to tell it's not what the application really intended.
If you know exactly how the bug gets triggered, you could come up with a tool that scans logfiles, physical file locations etc. and point out files that might have been corrupted. Or alternatively, point out the files which cannot have been corrupted because they have never been touched by the faulty component. This would at least reduce the amount of time one has to spend to assess the files manually.
However, I doubt very much that the necessary information (log files) has been written and kept all the time for such an analysis being possible.
Regards, Martin
I must qualify my yes reply. If it is a certainty that the early release of WHS Sp1 will work after the release of the data corruption patch then I agree with the early release.
Rufus Roper