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  • Question

  • …that "previous versions" (shadow copies) will work in WHS PP2? Last I looked it was a pretty highly seconded suggestion (# 318314) on Connect.
    Monday, December 1, 2008 7:57 PM

All replies

  • Not a lot!

    Colin


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    Monday, December 1, 2008 8:01 PM
    Moderator
  • Why take suggestions if you are going to ignore them? Sad…
    Monday, December 1, 2008 8:05 PM
  • Mainly because it's something that would take a LOT of work on a deprecated operating system to implement.
    The previous versions tool on Server 2003 was never designed to work on mounted drives, only 'standard' drives -C: -D: -E:  et al., so would need a fundemental re-write to become reliable enough to include.
    However, in the long term, it's quite possible that WHS Ver 2 might well have something similar.

    If previous versions are so important, then there are ways round their loss, ie., copy them from their temporary storage where they are going to disappear from on a reboot, onto a dedicated drive outside the main systems drives. This can be achieved with a script, but even that isn't too easy.

    Colin


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    Monday, December 1, 2008 8:22 PM
    Moderator
  • Colin Hodgson said:

    Mainly because it's something that would take a LOT of work on a deprecated operating system to implement.
    The previous versions tool on Server 2003 was never designed to work on mounted drives, only 'standard' drives -C: -D: -E:  et al., so would need a fundemental re-write to become reliable enough to include.
    However, in the long term, it's quite possible that WHS Ver 2 might well have something similar.

    If previous versions are so important, then there are ways round their loss, ie., copy them from their temporary storage where they are going to disappear from on a reboot, onto a dedicated drive outside the main systems drives. This can be achieved with a script, but even that isn't too easy.

    Colin


    If anyone answers your query successfully, please mark it as 'Helpful', to guide other users.



    And yet, thanks to brubber's findings, mine continue to work (4 1/2 months now :)  ).
    Monday, December 1, 2008 8:30 PM
    Moderator
  • I don't have a testbed to test it--but are you saying that "previous version" does not function for Vista or XP clients of WS03R2 shares? If so, then I've been laboring under a false impression that this was a native capability of WS03R2.

    Wasn't there some discussion that the SystemBuilder WHS copies were enabling it (or the appearnace that it might be there, anyway) and the HP MSS didn't and how to disable it so it didn't appear like it would work when likely as not it really wouldn't anyway?

    Maybe it's just me but I'd feel better not seeing "Previous Versions" if it isn't going to waork anyway.
    Monday, December 1, 2008 8:35 PM
  • Dick Watson said:

    I don't have a testbed to test it--but are you saying that "previous version" does not function for Vista or XP clients of WS03R2 shares?
     

    No, that's not correct.  If you are running Windows Server 2003, Previous Versions does work from XP/Vista (because Windows Server 2003 doesn't pool the drives into one big storage device in the background).

    Dick Watson said:

    If so, then I've been laboring under a false impression that this was a native capability of WS03R2.

    It is an option on WS2K3 (it's disabled by default, but any server admin can set it up if desired).

    Dick Watson said:

    Wasn't there some discussion that the SystemBuilder WHS copies were enabling it (or the appearnace that it might be there, anyway) and the HP MSS didn't and how to disable it so it didn't appear like it would work when likely as not it really wouldn't anyway?

    Maybe it's just me but I'd feel better not seeing "Previous Versions" if it isn't going to waork anyway.

    If you purchased the OEM version of WHS, it is enabled by default.  If you purchased the HP MSS, it is disabled.
    Monday, December 1, 2008 8:40 PM
    Moderator
  • There was also some discussion some time ago, about one of the monthly updates disabling it on OEM versions, but I don't think anything ever came of it.
    I think it's because of the instability - seeing them some times - but not others, that HP took the decision they did. (I wonder what have the other system builders like Fujitsu done?)

    Colin
    If anyone answers your query successfully, please mark it as 'Helpful', to guide other users.
    Monday, December 1, 2008 8:50 PM
    Moderator
  • kariya21 said:

    No, that's not correct.  If you are running Windows Server 2003, Previous Versions does work from XP/Vista (because Windows Server 2003 doesn't pool the drives into one big storage device in the background).



    If you purchased the OEM version of WHS, it is enabled by default.  If you purchased the HP MSS, it is disabled.

    Given that, I don't understand Colin's comment that this isn't going to get worked since fixing it involves modifying the obsolete WS2003R2 code. DE is a WHS bolt-on. So the DE team should be able to fix it in their code. What's the difference between fixing it in the WHS bolt-on to WS2003R2 or fixing it in the WHS bolt-on to WS2008? (DE reminds me of an old expression about kludge graft-ons never originally envisioned: Live by the Hack, die by the Hack.) I'm sure there's something here I just don't get.

    Can you remind me where this is enabled/disabled? As noted, if it's never going to work I'd just as soon it didn't make it look as though it might.
    Monday, December 1, 2008 8:56 PM
  • Dick Watson said:

    Given that, I don't understand Colin's comment that this isn't going to get worked since fixing it involves modifying the obsolete WS2003R2 code. DE is a WHS bolt-on.
     
    Yes.  But Shadow Copies isn't.  It is part of 2003 and does require a re-work to work with the "storage pool" concept (which, as he said, has virtually no chance of happening).

    Dick Watson said: So the DE team should be able to fix it in their code.
     
    No.  They can't fix it.  It's not their code to fix.

    Dick Watson said:

    What's the difference between fixing it in the WHS bolt-on to WS2003R2 or fixing it in the WHS bolt-on to WS2008?
     

    There is no difference.  The WHS team can't fix any code for WS2K3/2K8 or anything else.  All they can do is add to the code that's already there.

    Dick Watson said:

    (DE reminds me of an old expression about kludge graft-ons never originally envisioned: Live by the Hack, die by the Hack.) I'm sure there's something here I just don't get.

    The difference is DE is a new concept written on top of 2K3.  If there had been some concept of DE in 2K3, the WHS team couldn't change that either.

    Dick Watson said:

    Can you remind me where this is enabled/disabled? As noted, if it's never going to work I'd just as soon it didn't make it look as though it might.



    You have to change a setting in the registry on the server.  It's HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows Home Server\Storage Manager\Volumes.  Inside there you will see a subkey for each volume in your server.  You are looking for a key called SnapPeriod.  Each volume will have that key with a value of 0, except for your D partition.  It will have a value of 0x02932e00 (which is hexadecimal for 12 hours).  Change that value to 0.  That will stop the shadows from running.  Then you just need to delete the ones that are already there.  You can do that by right clicking on the D partition (on the server), selecting Properties, then clicking the Shadow Copies tab.  From there select each Shadow day/time under Shadow copies of selected volume, then click Delete Now.  Keep doing that for each day/time until those are all gone.  Proceed to the next volume (shown at the top), then delete all of those as well.  Keep doing that until the Used space is blank for all volumes.
    Monday, December 1, 2008 10:14 PM
    Moderator
  • kariya21 said:

    The difference is DE is a new concept written on top of 2K3.  If there had been some concept of DE in 2K3, the WHS team couldn't change that either.

    I'm betting if there had been a concept in 2K3 of pooled storage we wouldn't be having this dialogue because shadow copies would have worked in the first place. Likewise the whole "Windows Home Corrupter" phase might have been skipped as well.

    The pooled storage concept of DE probably shouldn't remain an after-the-fact bolt-on but should become a part of the server code base since some of the higher level stuff in the OS--VSS?--has to be aware of it to work. I'm suspecting that didn't happen in 2K8 so that rules out this working in WHSv2.

    It seems unlikely that anything from a tertiary group like WHS development would ever be considered for addition to the flagship enterprise OS. NIH and so forth… (OTOH: if software RAID isn't "good enough" for consumers so we needed DE, why is DE not a good solution to transition from WHS to the mainstream product?)
    ---
    Thanks for the directions for turning off shadow copies. I'll probably go do that and free up a little space besides.

    I'd still rather have shadow copies that worked. I'd trade DE for software RAID-1 and shadow copies that worked in a flash. Maybe that's just me.
    Monday, December 1, 2008 11:49 PM