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Windows VAIL server folders RRS feed

  • Question

  • hi guys,

    I've been trying to organize my fresh vail installation but I am unable to clean up the mess with drive letters and shares.

    Don't get me wrong - I can do everything from within share and storage management but...

    The tricky part is, that when I delete all the primary server shared folders from my server storage (Recorded TV, Music, Pictures) and their corresponding drive letters (W: , U:, X:, etc) - the drive shares get recreated after restart.

    I could live with that, but when you go to DASHBOARD app, and to shared folders there - another problem.

    It looks like that when I delete the shared folders from within storage management, the DASHBOARD still thinks they should be available and gives information that the share is unhealthy. The only thing that can be done is reformatting the share which brings the initial situation.

    My question is: how to delete the initial windows shares visible under dashboard?

    How come VAIL has 2 independant managements? When i create new user from dashboard it is not visible in local users and groups and vice versa, when i create shares from storage manageemnt they're not available from dashboard.

    any clues?

    • Moved by Ken WarrenModerator Monday, August 30, 2010 6:46 PM Vail question (From:Windows Home Server Software)
    Monday, August 30, 2010 6:08 PM

Answers

  • You can't remove shares except from within the dashboard. The dashboard is Microsoft's intended interface for end user management of the server; anything you see or can do from the desktop is technically "unsupported" even if it's a common operation in other Windows operating systems. There's a warning to this general effect on the server desktop, as a matter of fact...


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Monday, August 30, 2010 6:45 PM
    Moderator

All replies

  • You can't remove shares except from within the dashboard. The dashboard is Microsoft's intended interface for end user management of the server; anything you see or can do from the desktop is technically "unsupported" even if it's a common operation in other Windows operating systems. There's a warning to this general effect on the server desktop, as a matter of fact...


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Monday, August 30, 2010 6:45 PM
    Moderator
  • You should not create or delete files, folders or users from the desktop interface. As Ken said above it is not supported nor will it register correctly when interfacing from the dashboard or client connections.
    Monday, August 30, 2010 8:48 PM
  • Ummm, I think you misread Ken's post.

    Vail is a headless installation; therefore, the only way to create or delete files, folders or users is from the Dashboard, which is accessible from the Desktop/Connector.

    I have set up new users from the Dashboard, which is available from my Desktop.


    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret

    "RSFran" wrote in message news:44b3c565-19c5-42f8-93ec-ab374994f6c5@communitybridge.codeplex.com...

    You should not create or delete files, folders or users from the desktop interface. As Ken said above it is not supported nor will it register correctly when interfacing from the dashboard or client connections.


    Nancy Ward
    Monday, August 30, 2010 10:43 PM
  • I believe what they are talking about is the Desktop of Vail.
     
    The interface that you are supposed to be using is what you are doing from the Dashboard.

    --
    Don
    Monday, August 30, 2010 11:19 PM
  • On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 22:43:07 +0000, Nancy Ward wrote:

    Ummm, I think you misread Ken's post.

    No, you're the one that has misread Ken's post and RSFran's as well.


    Vail is a headless installation; therefore, the only way to create or delete files, folders or users is from the Dashboard, which is accessible from the Desktop/Connector.

    No, this is untrue. It is possible to attach a keyboard and a monitor to a
    Vail system and interact directly with the Vail desktop, just as it is
    possible to have no keyboard or monitor attached to the Vail system and
    interact directly with the Vail desktop through an RDP session. Ken's post,
    and RSFran's post were referencing these abilities. When interacting with
    the Vail desktop directly there are any number of ways to create and delete
    files/folder/shares/users. Both of them are indicating that the only
    supported way to do so is to use the Dashboard, whether you use the
    Dashboard while interacting directly with the Vail desktop or doing so from
    a client computer is really irrelevant, as long as you use the Dashboard.


    I have set up new users from the Dashboard, which is available from my Desktop.

    You are referring to a client computer, there is no such thing as a
    Desktop.


    Paul Adare
    MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager
    http://www.identit.ca

    Tuesday, August 31, 2010 11:26 AM
  • ok, I confirm that I was accesing vail in 2 ways: through launchpad on my client pc and directly through keyboard and monitor connected to server (actually mainly through a remote desktop session from my client pc, but I was acting like being on the WHS directly).

    If dashboard is really the only way to manage the server - than that server is completely unmanagable.

    From within the dashboard you can only create users, but YOU CAN NOT add them to groups or change their settings.

    VAIL is a great system, but ONLY if you are able to use the standard windows server 2008r2 configuration options together with the dashboard.

    It happened to me already, that users created in dashboard disappeared from there (but were still present in the system, and I couldn't create new account in the place of missing one) - What I am trying to say is that BOTH options should be acceptable and changes should be visible everywhere.

    Second problem is that you CAN NOT delete initial shared folders (Music, Pictures, Recorded TV, Documents and Videos) - you can't even change their names!

    I could find use for Music and Pictures but I'd rather had Movies instead of Videos and TV Series instead of Recorded TV - I know I can still have them under diffferent names but hey - we're in 2010 and not being able to change folder names to my liking is rather odd. Oh, you also cannot delete ANY of this 5 folders (in case you only wanted to have 3 or 4). The shared folders are actually disk partitions and it looks really messy.

     

    ok, now I have begun experimenting with Media streaming and we come to a big hassle again - I'll post a link to new thread regarding media streaming under WHS soon ;-)

    Thanks for your help!

    Lukasz

    Tuesday, August 31, 2010 2:46 PM
  • Modifying groups/permissions: this is unsupported in Vail, i.e. you should not attempt to do it, and should let Vail manage all groups/permissions for you. If you need more granular control of groups, permissions, etc. then perhaps you need to rethink how you're using your server, or perhaps Vail is not the right product for you. There's nothing wrong with this, if true; it just indicates you have more advanced needs than Vail is designed to support.

    Disappearing users: sounds like a bug. Did you report it as such on Connect?

    Deleting/renaming initial shares: No, you can't. That's true. It's by design. If you think it should change, you should (again) let Microsoft know on Connect. (For what it's worth, I agree, though it's a non-issue for me since I like the names as they are.)

    Just as Windows Home Server V1 is not Windows Server 2003 "lite", Vail is not Windows Server 2008 R2 "lite".


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Tuesday, August 31, 2010 3:08 PM
    Moderator
  • Ah, I see. Makes no sense, but whatever Microsoft decides. :)

    When setting up Vail on the "server" machine, I used the monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Once the installation was complete, I removed the mouse, keyboard and monitor; thus, making it a headless installation. And therein lies my confusion. :(

    I've gone back and reread Ken's post and I think I understood that part of it pretty well. He's saying you should use the dashboard, rather than the Vail desktop. I agree with that so far, but if the dashboard can be accessed from the Vail desktop, can you use it or not? Which brings up another question . . . is the dashboard available before a client machine is connected? Logic tells me it is, but I haven't checked, and don't think I will, since things are working well for me at this point.

    As to RSFran's post, by leaving out the fact that he was talking about the "Vail" desktop, I took it to mean my client machine's desktop. Sigh . . . His post is not the only thing that's confusing about this stuff, but I'll learn.

    And here's the rub: If I leave the mouse, keyboard and monitor on Vail, and can actually access the dashboard, are Ken and RSFran saying that using the dashboard from the Vail desktop isn't supported? Also, if something's unsupported, why then should it be allowed without a warning?

    Although it should be allowed in my not so humble opinion, simply because it's more convenient to completely set Vail up without having to jump through hoops.


    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret

    "DonCarlson" wrote in message news:462622c3-7a5f-4c13-ac31-46fcc416cb2b@communitybridge.codeplex.com...


    I believe what they are talking about is the Desktop of Vail.

    The interface that you are supposed to be using is what you are doing from the Dashboard.


    Don


    Nancy Ward
    Tuesday, August 31, 2010 3:33 PM
  • hi Nancy!

    1. Dashboard on server's desktop is available from the very beginning.

    2. Using dashboard from Vail's desktop IS supported. I use both - remote dashboard from my client pc, dashboard from Vail's desktop with its mouse and keyboard, Dashboard on Vail's desktop through remote desktop on my client pc.

    I hope it's clear ;-)

    Tuesday, August 31, 2010 4:56 PM
  • Let me clarify:

    Microsoft doesn't intend for end users to access Vail via the server's desktop, i.e. logging in directly with physically connected keyboard, mouse, and monitor; or remotely using a plain Remote Desktop session. End user access to the server desktop is technically "unsupported" for most purposes. Logging in to the dashboard immediately afterward is still in the realm of "unsupported" because the way an end user gets there is unsupported.

    It might be possible for Microsoft to eliminate the ability to log in other than via the dashboard, though I doubt it. Even if they could I don't think it would be a good idea for a number of reasons, chief among which is how much harder developing for Vail would be without any desktop access at all.

    All that said, if you need to use the server desktop for something, don't let the technically unsupported nature of it stop you. Just be careful and ask yourself first if there's a "supported" way you could use instead.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Tuesday, August 31, 2010 5:05 PM
    Moderator
  • Thanks, Ken. That clarifies things quite a bit.

    For the most part, I don't go the "unsupported" route, although sometimes, as you say, it's OK. I'm pretty cautious about that, even though I sometimes argue the point. I'm not even sure I'd want an unsupported action prevented; I am sure that I should be warned if it's unsupported though. :)

    I guess since my Connector installed beautifully on my client machine, I won't need to use the server desktop until I'm required to install the "real" release candidate.


    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret

    "Ken Warren [MVP]" wrote in message news:45857eaf-71e7-4a1d-8ffa-6f7198a693a2@communitybridge.codeplex.com...

    Let me clarify:

    Microsoft doesn't intend for end users to access Vail via the server's desktop, i.e. logging in directly with physically connected keyboard, mouse, and monitor; or remotely using a plain Remote Desktop session. End user access to the server desktop is technically "unsupported" for most purposes. Logging in to the dashboard immediately afterward is still in the realm of "unsupported" because the way an end user gets there is unsupported.

    It might be possible for Microsoft to eliminate the ability to log in other than via the dashboard, though I doubt it. Even if they could I don't think it would be a good idea for a number of reasons, chief among which is how much harder developing for Vail would be without any desktop access at all.

    All that said, if you need to use the server desktop for something, don't let the technically unsupported nature of it stop you. Just be careful and ask yourself first if there's a "supported" way you could use instead.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)


    Nancy Ward
    Tuesday, August 31, 2010 6:03 PM