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Zune software eating all available memory and page file under PP1 RRS feed

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    Hi everyone, I have searched all over and can't find this anywhere but on the Zune forums:

    http://forums.zune.net/0/1/273028/ShowPost.aspx#273028

    That is my post about 12 replies down. I've used Zune software with vista for over a year now and no trouble at all. After installing PP1 3 days ago and bringing my other 3 drives online, I put on my favorite playlist. My WMA's are stored in the shared music folder on the WHS (HP Mediasmart).

    By the third song, my mouse got all jumpy, frequent vista circle, etc. I pulled up the task manager and zune.exe was hogging about 1.4gig of memory. I had to count the zero's to make sure since I have never seen that many numbers on task manager before.

    I  think it's more than coincidental that this problem starts after the WHS pp1, and is also present on my wife's notebook. I dont know that it's really a WHS bug and reportable though since I can't absolutely prove it's WHS unless I move all 12gigs of music off the server, turn if off, and fire up Zune? I'm a little new to this beta testing thing, just trying to do my part to make this thing work great.

    I am running media player 11 right now, for the past hour and a half and it is holding steady at 44k memory used...
    Sunday, June 22, 2008 12:40 AM

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    I would suggest filing a bug report on Connect anyway - while you say you cannot prove it is PP1, you are also saying it wasnt there before PP1 - so its worth filing to bug report even if it turns out not to be WHS just so it can be eliminated.


    Andrew

     

    Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:20 AM
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    I am having the same issue, and had started that post over on the Zune forums.  I had my WHS shares set to read-only before the PP1 came out, due to the concern about corruption of the files.  When I installed PP1, I started up Zune, and I thought that Zune was just going through and doing a huge metafile update to all my files (which I'm sure it was doing as well).  But then I noticed things getting slow -- looked at memory consumption, and the zune software was using about 3.5 gigs (based on what Vista was reporting), and the page file (nearly 10 gigs) was just about full too.  Once I closed the Zune software, pagefile memory went back down to about 1.5 gigs.  (Running Vista x64, SP1)

     

    It generally happens after about 2-10 minutes of having the Zune software up and running.  Just all of a sudden, then memory starts going crazy.  I've had it go up to where the zune software either crashes, or Vista says that it is using too much memory and asks if I want to shut it down.

     

    Monday, June 23, 2008 2:00 PM
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    Ken, assuming you're granted access to build 1776, you would uninstall the previous version, then install the new update as follows:
    • Download the new version to someplace you can reach from a  Remote Desktop session on your server (probably the server shares).
    • Log on to your server using Remote Desktop.
    • Start → Control Panel → Add/Remove Programs.
    • Check "Show Updates" if not checked.
    • Scroll down until you see "PRERELEASE Windows Home Server Power Pack 1 (KB944289)". Select that item.
    • Click "Remove".
    • If prompted regarding other users, click "Continue".
    • When the Software Update Removal Wizard displays, click Next and wait for the uninstall to finish.
    • You will probably see a prompt that the removal requires a reboot to complete. Reboot your server by unchecking"Do not restart now" and clicking "Finish".
    • Your server should now reboot. It's normal for this to take several minutes. When it's finished, log back in to Remote Desktop. YOu will probably see a warning about your connector being the wrong version on any desktops that are joined to your server. Ignore the warning for now.
    • Run the update. If you can't, try copying it from the location where you have it stored to the administrator's desktop on the server.
    • Once the wizard has started, click Next.
    • Agree to the EULA, and click Next.
    • The update will install. When it finishes, your server will need to be restarted again.Uncheck "Do not restart now." and click Finish to restart and complete installation.
    If you see a warning about the connector after the reboot is complete, go ahead and update it on your clients. Note: upgrading the connector may require a restart of the client PC(s).
    Sunday, June 29, 2008 3:08 AM
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    How do you get "granted access"?  Is there going to be another beta / RC that is open to public?
    Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:02 AM
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    Microsoft makes that determination. Some users are granted access to new builds more or less immediately (including Windows Home Server MVPs and certain others; the technical term for this group is "guinea pigs" Smile ). For other testers, I believe it's based on bug reports submitted; if you've submitted a bug report that may be corrected by the new build, you may be granted access to it. Possibly there will be a broader release of one or another new build before PP1 is released; I don't have a schedule that I could share with you, however.
    Sunday, June 29, 2008 1:25 PM
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    Torpex, I found your post over on the Zune.net support site and followed your link here.

     

    I too am experiencing the exact same thing with Zune consuming all available RAM and rendering my system unusable, however, I believe the problem rest with WHS PP1 not zune. 

     

    I'm running Windows Vista Ultimate X64, Zune 2.5 x64, and WHS PP1 rtm 1800.

     

    After reading through your posts and the posts here, I decided to remove PP1 from my WHS and the problem is gone. I can associate all of my monitored folders to the WHS shares and Zune does not have any problems consuming RAM.

    Friday, July 25, 2008 6:13 AM
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    There are postings on Medismartserver.net on this topic. The fix was 1776 build, obtained after a connect bug report. Then PP1 worked without issues. This is not an unknown issue.

    http://www.mediasmartserver.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1507


    Ben
    Friday, July 25, 2008 4:25 PM
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    Unfortunately the thread you've linked to on Mediasmartserver.net is primarily discussing heavy CPU utilization.

     

    We are reporting a problem with Zune software and massive RAM/Pagefile consumption on systems running Vista x64, Zune 2.5 x64, and WHS PP1. 

     

    The list of fixes in 1776 does not appear to cover the RAM issue mentioned here.

    Friday, July 25, 2008 4:44 PM
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    Your right, separate issue. I was'nt reading close enough.


    Ben
    Friday, July 25, 2008 4:48 PM
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    Ok, so, after continuing to search for a solution to this issue, the problem somehow rectified itself. At least for the time being I am able to run Zune 2.5 (x64) without it gobbling up every last bit of RAM and crippling my PC.

     

    The only thing I have done differently is I temporarily turned off Media Sharing in the WHS console as well as temporarily turning off file duplication for my music share folder.  However, they were only off for approximately 15 minutes before I turned them both back on.  Afterwards, though, I no longer had the problem being mentioned in this thread. Probably just a coincidence... I don't know.

     

    If the problem returns I'll post again here.

    Friday, July 25, 2008 5:21 PM
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    Apparently there needs to be a little bit of clarity here... you can't install Zune or WMP11 on the HP MediaSmart Server.  I guess if you put WHS on a PC you can.

    I tried both installs and the OS is not up to snuff.

    That said, hopfully PVConnect will work for videos as installing iTunes will do just fine for other media and I know that works with the 3 appleTVs and other things attached to my network.

    The data corruption bug has not been entirely fixed.  Well the files won't be corrupted, to be more specific, but if you keep file duplication on then from time to time the console will report your highest numbered drive in the pool as "failing" or "failed".

    Turning off duplication prevents this error.  I'm sad I can't use that feature, but I just backup the server via a port-multiplied tera-byte tower so no worries.  That way I can use all the space on the MediaServer for file storage and not backups of storage.

    Anywho, good luck with the Zune bug... looks like in their rush to get everything out to compete with others, HP and MS didn't actually test anything in a real household!  Otherwise none of the extensive progblems would be posted in all these forums... or maybe they did know and released anyway lol.
    Sunday, July 27, 2008 2:30 AM
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    Well,

    Alot of the folks over on mediasmartserver.net, with Zune and Wmp11 installed on their mediasmart servers, are going to be soooo upset with this news. Thanks for the clarity.

     

     

    Ben

    Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:07 AM
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     ShadEF wrote:

    Ok, so, after continuing to search for a solution to this issue, the problem somehow rectified itself. At least for the time being I am able to run Zune 2.5 (x64) without it gobbling up every last bit of RAM and crippling my PC.

     

    I hate to tell you, but I bet the problem will return.  I wonder if this only happens with x64?  Because that is my setup too.  I think I posted in the other forum that I stopped monitoring the folders within Zune, and then started monitoring them again and it cleared the problem.  That actually cleared the problem for a couple of days to the point that I thought it was completely fixed.  But alas, it did return.  So for the time being I've given up -- I can't monitor the folders in Zune without it gobbling up all available memory and crashing the program.  So I've stopped monitoring, and am primarily just using the zune for podcasts.

     

    Just in case someone reads the thread and again doesn't understand the problem:

     

    Windows Home Server Machine

    WHS with PP1 (RTM - build 1800)

    Nothing relating to zune installed on the home server at all.

    Standard specs - AMD 2000+, 512M RAM

     

    User workstation

    Vista x64 Home Premium Sp1

    Zune 2.5 installed

    Intel Dual Core - 4 Gigs RAM

     

    Problem

    After launching Zune on the workstation, after some time passes (maybe a few minutes, maybe a few hours), Zune.exe will suddenly start grabbing memory.  Zune.exe cpu usage stays low.  Zune.exe will continue to grab memory until it uses all available memory, including all virtual memory, and Vista will ask to close Zune as it is using too much memory.  Memory usage and CPU on Windows Home Server machine stays normal.

     

    Workarounds

    If within the Zune softwaare you stop monitoring all folders residing on WHS, problem will stop happening and all goes back to normal.  Won't recur if you don't monitor folders within Zune software.

     

    If you don't have PP1 installed on the WHS server, the the problem doesn't happen.  However, you evidently risk corruption of your media files.

     

    Current information as I understand it

    WHS team has thrown it back to the Zune team as a zune problem.  However, since the problem just doesn't happen without PP1, it doesn't seem like it would be a zune problem.  Zune team has not responded in their forums.

     

Original link I started at Zune.net:

http://forums.zune.net/264039/ShowPost.aspx

 

 

Sunday, July 27, 2008 2:03 PM
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     Torpex wrote:
     

     

    Current information as I understand it

    WHS team has thrown it back to the Zune team as a zune problem.  However, since the problem just doesn't happen without PP1, it doesn't seem like it would be a zune problem.  Zune team has not responded in their forums.

     

     

     

    Hello Torpex,

     

    Appcompat bugs are resolved to the vendor responsible for the application when it is determined that the source of the bug is in the vendor's (in this case Zune) code and not MS's (or Server in this case) or the fix is in the vendor's code and not ours.

     

    In this case, the Zune application must be updated i.e. the module that is crashing is in the Zune application and not PP1. Attempting to apply a shim in PP1 or attempting to apply a fix through PP1 would be kludgy and/or simply not feasible. The most effective update would come via an update to the Zune application.

     

    Thank you

    Lara Jones

    Windows Home Server

     

    Monday, July 28, 2008 8:21 PM
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    Whatever the cause, I bet it is something MICROSOFT will have to fix.  Don't really care which team fixes it.
    Tuesday, July 29, 2008 7:10 PM
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    Lara:

     

    As a consumer I am a little dismayed by your response. The vendor in this case is Microsoft. From my perspective as a consumer, this problem started with PP1, I uninstalled the beta becasue of it, but it is still an issue with the PP1 RTM. I feel like I'm beteween the devil & the deep blue sea here: do I uninstall PP1 to get Zune to work and live with the risk of data corruption, or do I stick with PP1 and abandon my Zune?

     

    I urge you to consider this issue from the POV of the consumer, rather than your internal partnet relationships. As Torpex says we don't really care which MS team fixes it, we just want our investments in MS technology to work together. Can you give us some concrete assurances that this problem is being addressed please?

     

    OS: Vista SP1 (32-bit)

    RAM: 4GB (3.2GB usable in 32-bit - 97% consumed as I type this)

    WHS (HP EX475): PP1 6.0.1800.0

    Zune: 2.5.447.0 (forced upgrade)

     

    Monday, August 4, 2008 6:00 AM
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    One of the problems with WHS and the data corruption bug is the file duplication feature.  I was getting all kinds of failing disk errors... that is until I turned off all folder duplication.  Now, no problems at all.  I'll live without it I guess!
    Monday, August 4, 2008 4:34 PM
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    That's a rediculous solution.  Why would you store data on your server if you don't duplicate the data?  Esp. considering that WHS doesn't recommend or support RAID solutions.  The whole idea of why I have a home server is to preserve my data, not put it at additional risk!
    Monday, August 4, 2008 4:51 PM
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    Just wanted to suggest you look at Monkey Media as an alternative.

    Sorry about your problem,

    Ben
    Monday, August 4, 2008 5:08 PM
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     Dowlo wrote:

    Lara:

     

    As a consumer I am a little dismayed by your response. The vendor in this case is Microsoft. From my perspective as a consumer, this problem started with PP1, I uninstalled the beta becasue of it, but it is still an issue with the PP1 RTM. I feel like I'm beteween the devil & the deep blue sea here: do I uninstall PP1 to get Zune to work and live with the risk of data corruption, or do I stick with PP1 and abandon my Zune?

     

    I urge you to consider this issue from the POV of the consumer, rather than your internal partnet relationships. As Torpex says we don't really care which MS team fixes it, we just want our investments in MS technology to work together. Can you give us some concrete assurances that this problem is being addressed please?

     

    OS: Vista SP1 (32-bit)

    RAM: 4GB (3.2GB usable in 32-bit - 97% consumed as I type this)

    WHS (HP EX475): PP1 6.0.1800.0

    Zune: 2.5.447.0 (forced upgrade)

     

     

    If you are running a server with more than one drive, I would not uninstall PP1.

     

    I understand that the multiple divisions and product groups within Microsoft can be confusing but what I was trying to explain was that the bug had not been punted or thrown back but rather properly assigned to the correct team for review and a possible fix. Applications are different from operating systems.

     

    If you can provide me with the Feedback ID for the bug, I will contact the product group and check on the status. It may be the product group for Zune who gets back to you as they have the information on the product.

     

     

    Thank you

    Lara Jones

    Monday, August 4, 2008 5:28 PM
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    I don't have a feedback ID for a bug. I had gathered from this discussion thread that WHS was already aware of the issue, and had actually addressed it in a recent WHS build. But no dice it seems. I am acting under the assumption that MS already has the ball on this one, and I'm asking for a statement from MS to be posted here so we all know what's happening.

    Monday, August 4, 2008 6:48 PM
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    Dowlo, I believe (but don't know for sure, see my .sig) Lara is saying the bug is assigned to the Zune team (i.e. "external" to Windows Home Server). The issue is something that the Zune software does that is non-standard. Microsoft could shim Pwer Pack 1 to support this non-standard behavior, but that way lies 50,000,000 lines of code (or whatever Windows is up to these days).

    I suppose one could see this as "passing the buck", but in my opinion, the WHS team shouldn't have to code around a nonstandard shortcut that the Zune team took; they would have to support that odd little quirk of code for years, and it might turn around to bite them at some point in the future.
    Monday, August 4, 2008 7:55 PM
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    I hear you Ken & Lara, I'm all for fixing it "right" - a previous post had hinted that this was fixed in WHS before, but I agree it seems more like a bug in zune.exe (I can think of very few reasons for an app to be allowed to consume all available memory :-). By the same token, the experience was made apparent by a change in WHS, so IMO there's accountability there too to get it fixed for the consumer. Either way it's MS, and the consumer is on the outside looking in at one company. From the consumer POV, compatible interop is assumed.

    Monday, August 4, 2008 10:06 PM
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    Well, Torpid, it is not a rediculous solution if you have more than 3 movies and a handful of mp3's to play with as you apparently do.  Please think outside of the box-- not everyone has exactly the same needs as you.

    The point of the server is to provide a centralized distribution point for your files... hence the name "server" meaning "to serve".

    The backup feature is only a secondary marketing consideration-- in other words, "everyone's doing it"  Your backup solution should not be a server-- it should be a fileshare.

    In any event, backing up files to a physical location in the same place as the originals is rediculous-- to use your logic.  Why back up files if a fire or powersurge or theft destroys all the data anyway?

    I have every single file I've ever saved or created back from when I was programming with a commodore-64.  Archiving the really obtuse stuff, there's about exactly 4TB of data (video/music/docs).  Including the obtuse stuff, I have 18TB of data going back 20 years.  How do you propose I fit all my music and movies onto the WHS if file duplication is on?  Can I have your machinge?  (I'm talking about the HP mediasmart server btw)

    If you want to back up your files, then back up the server as a whole which is what I do.  Free up your PC's and laptops by using the server as the single shared drive for everything you've got.  File duplication has caused nothing but probolems with the the WHS.  It eats resources, corrupts files, and causes the WHS to think disks are failing.  STILL.

    god i hate it when people think their *** don't stink and all they can do is slam someone else for doing things differently... you'd rather I turn on folder duplication, continually get a message failing my topmost drive and having it knocked out of the WHS pool, as well as only have half of my files on this thing?   get real.  be an adult when you post here and don't slam another's use or solution to a problematic product.


    the fact is that file duplication is still full of obvious bugs.  many people have problems with apps, which go away when they turn it off.  it is not necessary--- and why would you keep duplicates of anything on the same machine??????
    Wednesday, August 6, 2008 12:11 AM
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    Look, if you want just a big hard drive, there's plenty of them out there.  WHS is supposed to do much more than that.  What I was saying is rediculous is that you are saying that I just shouldn't use a feature that's a MAJOR part of the product.  To me that's akin to saying "well just don't use search in windows, because it doesn't work properly - just know where all your files are instead".  That logic is stupid, even if search in windows doesn't work very well.  I think it's a reasonable request to have a feature that's a key part of the feature set of the product to work properly!

     

    I do have my stuff backed up other places, but have you ever had a hard drive die?  I've been a systems engineer for over 10 years, and my computer experience goes back to the C-64 as well.  Believe me I've seen my share of hard drives fail.  I find it a lot more convenient to just put a new hard drive in and have it rebuild in the background, rather than needing to restore from backup, all the while being out of comission.  I shouldn't have to put up with the hassle because a fundamental piece of the product (a big part of what WHS is) doesn't work properly.

     

    But actually, my experience has been very good with the disk duplication aside from this issue I'm having, and I don't have a beef with it.  I simply want the zune team or the WHS team or the "special bug fix assistance team" or whoever they are to fix the problem so I can actually use zune without it using up nearly 10 Gigs of virtual RAM and slowing my machine to a halt.

     

    I would rather see the bugs worked out of the system, rather than just turning off features.  Once again, telling me to just shut off a feature because it has bugs is completely unacceptable, and yes, rediculous!  If Microsoft isn't able to work the bugs out of their software, I'll go out and buy a NAS device with RAID.  But I happen to like the WHS product and in my opinion it adds a lot beyond a simple NAS device.  I'm confident that MS can fix these issues.  Even if you don't use the feature, don't tell me to shut it off -- I find it's fairly important in how I wish to use the product. 

     

    "Please think outside of the box-- not everyone has exactly the same needs as you." 

     

     

     

    Wednesday, August 6, 2008 5:39 AM