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Proposing an answer RRS feed

  • General discussion

  • Just a request of courtesy (I don't make or enforce the rules):

    Please allow the OPs of questions and other participants time to respond to posts in the forums before proposing responses as answers to questions. If I was a moderator I would be unmarking these in a heartbeat, especially when someone is proposing their own response as an answer (which is presumptuous). 

    Let the OPs review the responses and mark any as answers and the moderators can handle the questions that have been abandoned. :-)


    Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
    • Moved by Martin Xie - MSFT Wednesday, June 10, 2009 10:57 AM Move it to Suggestion/Feedback Forum for better support. Paul's suggestion is reasonable and seems be acceptable. Thank you for your valuable feedback! (From:Visual Basic General)
    • Moved by SachinW Monday, July 13, 2009 12:59 PM off topic (From:Suggestions and Feedback for the Forums)
    • Moved by Alicia CalesMicrosoft employee Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:16 PM Should not be moved to off topic (From:Off-Topic Posts (Do Not Post Here))
    Friday, June 5, 2009 1:42 PM

All replies

  • I'll second that Paul.  I find the "Propose As Answer" feature a little sketchy to begin with because unless the proposed answer is just clearly the correct answer (which should make it obvious to the OP once reviewed) it is only as good as the question is concise and how it's been expanded upon through dialog... which suggests the OP really should decide this through review and/or trial anyhow. 

    The potential benefit to the OP of having an unsolicited adviser make a recommendation is far outweighed by the continued abuse of the feature as you have noted.  Thanks for bringing it up -- it's bothered me as well.
    Friday, June 5, 2009 1:52 PM
  • The compensated moderators are performance rated on the percentage of questions answered.  If on one visit, they see a proposed answer and on the next visit it is still there, they will mark that post as an answer.  The proposed answer mechanism was a key desire of these moderators.
    Friday, June 5, 2009 1:58 PM
  • Just a request of courtesy (I don't make or enforce the rules):

    Please allow the OPs of questions and other participants time to respond to posts in the forums before proposing responses as answers to questions. If I was a moderator I would be unmarking these in a heartbeat, especially when someone is proposing their own response as an answer (which is presumptuous). 

    Let the OPs review the responses and mark any as answers and the moderators can handle the questions that have been abandoned. :-)


    Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)

    I find the posibility to propose an answer and the possibility for an OP to unpropose an answer a very fine mechanisme. I found this a real improvement in the forums.

    However, maybe I miss something. Like most MVP's I have always avoid the forums. I see now that they work with this kind of improvements very well.

    Therefore maybe I can better ask you to explain for me why they made these improvements?

    What I find anoying is that many people are sending text for asking to mark a reply as anwer, while there is for that a fine mechanisme.

    Often I see this done as there is only a question for more information.



    Friday, June 5, 2009 2:12 PM
  • I'll second that Paul.  I find the "Propose As Answer" feature a little sketchy to begin with because unless the proposed answer is just clearly the correct answer (which should make it obvious to the OP once reviewed) it is only as good as the question is concise and how it's been expanded upon through dialog... which suggests the OP really should decide this through review and/or trial anyhow. 

    The potential benefit to the OP of having an unsolicited adviser make a recommendation is far outweighed by the continued abuse of the feature as you have noted.  Thanks for bringing it up -- it's bothered me as well.

    You simply forget for what these forums are also made for, not to give help for one person, but to help many persons because the answers become in the search engines.

    Therefore something what is marked by an OP can be a very wrong answer in the search engines.

    The MSFT's should at least have a little change to check this.

    Friday, June 5, 2009 2:43 PM
  • Cor,

    I don't have an answer to your question since I am not a Microsoft person nor am I a mind reader.

    All that I know is that this feature is being abused. If everyone marked their own response as a proposed answer then it would be chaotic and confusing. In many instances questions are asked that appear to have an obvious answer only to find out that the apparent obvious answer isn't what the OP desired.

    My primary goal (as it has always been dating back to the Microsoft CompuServe forums, Microsoft NNTP newsgroups and now MSDN and other web forums) has been to provide the OP (and others) with information that will help him/her resolve their development questions or problems. I'm considerably less concered with who receives credit for it, although I'm sure that each of us who participates takes pride in being acknowledged for our contributions. 

    I certainly think it's fair to propose the responses of other partcipants as answers to the posts, but I usually allow for about a day or so for others to respond. If several days have elapsed and no one else has replied then it would probably make sense to offer up (mark) your response as an answer and then allow the moderators to make the final decision. Does that makes sense? :-)


    Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
    Friday, June 5, 2009 2:50 PM
  • I tend to use this feature if the OP replied to my response with "that fixed it" or "that did it" and a day later still have not marked my answer as the answer. My thought is that they will then get an email with the message about a proposed answer and then then hopefully come back and mark it answered.

    That is why I like the feature. But I agree that it tends to be abused.
    www.insteptech.com
    We are volunteers and ask only that if we are able to help you, that you mark our reply as your answer. THANKS!
    Friday, June 5, 2009 2:56 PM
  • I agree with the propose as answer being a little sketchy. Only the OP can actually know if it's the answer or not.

    Also, see my sig.
    Mods - Please do not mark my posts as answered. It is extremely rude. You have no idea if you've answered my question.
    Friday, June 5, 2009 3:10 PM
  • Hmm.   I think these add'l posts bring me into the "gray" zone with this discussion and I'm clearer now where I stand.  I think it is a good and valuable feature that should remain but that it has been poorly implemented (in terms of education) among the general user base.  This is pretty much what Paul is getting at and prudent explanations of use by Deborah and Cor underscore the gap between proper use and abuse.  The take away for me is that it is a valuable tool for moderators to gain faster visiblilty of threads that are nearing completion but haven't closed yet.  General users do not know (or possibly care) about the unwritten rules, thus making a good tool become a burden to some.  I think there will always be that segment who abuse but perhpas better education toward those who just don't get it but want to do the right thing would be a good thing. (Hint:  make a sticky thread)

    @Bleg, at the risk of contradicting myself, I completely disagree with your sig's intention because most times a moderator does have an idea that it has answered your question.  Any well-stated question should be somehwat universally understood.  It is not rude -- it's proper management of a forum for moderators to close threads that have received seemingly good responses but the OP has lingered or given no indication of the thread's status relating to that good response.  I don't find that moderators jump the gun and abuse the answering privelege.  I do see MANY users who just neglect to follow up.  If you disagree with the moderator's closing then reopen it (maybe give an explanation as to why while you're at it).  If the moderator closes it again after that then there may be something to gripe about.  For those active members who care about the reward system it is gratifying to see that someone cares about giving credit where credit's due.

    And as for comensated moderators being performance-rated.  Yikes!  There's where the potential for abuse could be introduced (especially if there is no audit system in place as I suspect).  That said, I'm very happy with all the moderators active in this forum.
    Friday, June 5, 2009 4:42 PM
  • Interesting topic Paul
    I agree that it seems many times I see a "Proposed as Answer" when it may not be workable or there is a maybe better or a more efficient way.

    Sometimes there is other info the OP has left out and further clarification is needed. What worked for our app may not work based on other conditions in the OP's app.

    I go along with Deborah - if the OP responds with "That worked" or something similar, then I will mark the "Propose as Answer".

    Otherwise I don't know enough (both about the OP's app or my own limited knowledge about writing code) to mark solutions I provide as the proposed answer. Even when I'm almost sure it is the correct solution.
    Friday, June 5, 2009 4:55 PM
  • I'm in agreement Paul.  As far as I'm concerned, that option can be removed because it is being grossly abused.  For example, I've seen a ridiculous response (to a legitimate question) comparing russians and americans in red square, and the person that made the post had marked it as the proposed answer.

    I believe that marking one's own post as a proposed answer is not only presumptuous, but it is a high form of conceit!  In other forums I frequent, such an option is not available, and rightly so, in my opinion.  Before this latest round of posts being marked as proposed answers, I would more often than not, ignore threads that had a proposed answer.  And I don't think I was alone in doing that.  Now, I will quickly scan through such marked threads to see whose post is marked as a proposed answer, then offer up any help I can.

    Hopefully, the use of that option will be defined in detail by the powers-that-be....or maybe it will be completely removed.  As BLeg said in his post, and I completely agree with his statement, only the OP can determine if a post does in fact answer the question to his/her satisfaction.



    Doug
    Friday, June 5, 2009 5:08 PM
  • Paul,

    You know my activities in the years in the Microsoft dotNet newsgroups, without any points and any counted answers.

    I don't like this mechanisme of points and making from a reply an answer by the OP at all and it is certainly not from the culture I was grown up (I don't mean my state (Country) by that).

    I would 've liked it as not any OP could make from his question "the" answer. I am only a few weeks active here but have seen things made "the" answers by the OP that would have in any newsgroups endless replies that it was not "the" answer. Here that possibiltie does not exist, and so we get a lot of "xxxx" on Interenet and especially MSDN which is completely a disaster for those searching for an answer for their problem.

    Inside this system, I think that it is good to tell if your reply is meant as a proposed answer or something you are not sure about or everything else by using the mechanisme to tell that you meant the reply as an answer and then simply state it using the mechanisme. 

    You know me that I have never paid any attention on unwritten rules or anything like that which only stop progress. I will not make here an anology, but you know that I can make many.

    However, I would like it much better as only a moderator could make from a proposed answser an answer for MSDN and not an OP. (And I think then also that you and me cannot be a moderator, we like it to much to help)

    Cor 

    Friday, June 5, 2009 5:24 PM
  • Deborah,

    I got the idea that Propose has different meanings in English. I use it like I do in England. 

    Nothing more then an suggestion for an answer which can always be denied (completely as the mechanisme works).

    Now I get the idea from the answers from Paul and you, that in American English it is probably more used as an intend, which let me then understand your both's sceptic against this.

    http://dictionary.cambridge.org/results.asp?searchword=Proposed&x=28&y=8


    Cor
    Friday, June 5, 2009 5:44 PM
  • I think of propose as you do, a suggested answer which can also be denied. Hence the ability to undo a proposed answer.

    I also think that several of the responses here that recommend that only the OP should mark a question as answer would only work in a "perfect world".

    In the real world there are many factors involved. As others have said, there are most likely a large percentage of people that ask a question and never come back to see the answer. Or come back to see the answer, say thank you, and never come back again to mark it as answered.

    So unless we could ensure that everyone would be trained appropriately, I don't think we can assume that all of the OPs will behave like we would like them to.

    This all also brings up another question. I understood that part of the purpose of a public forum like this was to provide answers not only to the OP, but also to anyone following later. So even if the OP had some weird issue that was causing the solution not to work for them, would it make sense to mark the answer as answered if it would be the correct answer for the 99% of other people that would read the issue?
    www.insteptech.com
    We are volunteers and ask only that if we are able to help you, that you mark our reply as your answer. THANKS!
    Friday, June 5, 2009 5:58 PM
  • However, I would like it much better as only a moderator could make from a proposed answser an answer for MSDN and not an OP. (And I think then also that you and me cannot be a moderator, we like it to much to help)

    Cor 

    Hi Cor,

    Just do like I do. Pretend you're in the NNTP newsgroups (w/o all the sniping and pettiness you see in Classic VB groups of course) where there are no right or wrong answers. Just a lot folks trying to help out.

    I'm not big on the points system either, which is why I abandoned Experts Exchange many years ago. The DevX forums were the only web forums I participated in for quite some time and I'm still a moderator over there and there are no points or marked answers.

    Like I said, the OP asks the question and he/she gets to mark the answer(s) if any. That's the way Microsoft set it up. The moderators (some of who are MVPs) take care of the abandoned questions, either by choosing the answers they feel are appropriate or by changing the question to a comment as a result of lack of answers and lack of follow-up by the OP.
    Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
    Friday, June 5, 2009 6:33 PM
  • Im glad Paul created this discussion on proposed as answer mentality. I made that comment yesterday with unrelated replied to OP question.
    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vbgeneral/thread/c3b24a76-413d-4b68-bc1f-0b3ed2800f37

    kaymaf
    I hope this helps, if that is what you want, just mark it as answer so that we can move on
    Friday, June 5, 2009 7:48 PM
  • Im glad Paul created this discussion on proposed as answer mentality. I made that comment yesterday with unrelated replied to OP question.
    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vbgeneral/thread/c3b24a76-413d-4b68-bc1f-0b3ed2800f37

    kaymaf
    I hope this helps, if that is what you want, just mark it as answer so that we can move on

    Even I'd noticed [ and sometimes felt bit angry ] about ^ kindof things I noticed in every other post. Being a new guy I kept mum but since Paul has started a discussion I think I can put up my words.
    It feels pathetic when someone replies after you, replies something weird,unrelated or even frames your reply in different words and Proposes it as answer. Newbies, without knowing 'how this system actually works' marks their replies as answers. Its not about the points ... but certainly about pride.
    Thanks

    - Omie
    You are so fat, the recursive function computing your fatness causes a stack overflow :\
    Friday, June 5, 2009 8:04 PM
  • It wouldn't be half bad if the mods marked the threads as answered in a better way.

    The point of the sig goes along with the purpose of the topic. I've created threads in here where a mod has replied and then marked their own answer as a reply immediately after they've posted it, within a day or two of the original question. By no means is the thread dead and, as the OP, I don't even have a chance to read the answer to agree or not. Not once have I read one of my own threads that was marked as an answer by a mod and found that it was actually the answer. I've had to unmark it every time to keep the thread where it should be. In addition to that, the way I search through my own threads (because I generally have 3-4 outstanding questions at a time) is by the state of their answer. If a mod has unjustly marked it as answered, I'll skip over it and forget about the question and move on to something else (I have a lot of development that needs doing) even though it's still there. Lastly, often the "answer" isn't even an answer. It's just 5-6 links to stuff that just wastes my time and has nothing to do with what I'm asking.


    Mods - Please do not mark my posts as answered. It is extremely rude. You have no idea if you've answered my question.
    Friday, June 5, 2009 8:33 PM
  • It wouldn't be half bad if the mods marked the threads as answered in a better way.

    The point of the sig goes along with the purpose of the topic. I've created threads in here where a mod has replied and then marked their own answer as a reply immediately after they've posted it, within a day or two of the original question. By no means is the thread dead and, as the OP, I don't even have a chance to read the answer to agree or not. Not once have I read one of my own threads that was marked as an answer by a mod and found that it was actually the answer. I've had to unmark it every time to keep the thread where it should be. In addition to that, the way I search through my own threads (because I generally have 3-4 outstanding questions at a time) is by the state of their answer. If a mod has unjustly marked it as answered, I'll skip over it and forget about the question and move on to something else (I have a lot of development that needs doing) even though it's still there. Lastly, often the "answer" isn't even an answer. It's just 5-6 links to stuff that just wastes my time and has nothing to do with what I'm asking.


    Mods - Please do not mark my posts as answered. It is extremely rude. You have no idea if you've answered my question.

    Hi BLeg,

    I have not looked at your threads but I guess you must be asking some really complicated questions if that is the case?

    Personally I do not mind if a moderator marks one of my repies as the ANSWER if,
     in my view, the original question was very easy or simple for me to answer, and I know that my code works.

    I am not trying to show off or be big headed here as I do not know everything about Vb.Net,
     VISUAL STUDIO or / and the EXPRESS EDITION. I guess no one can profess to know everything
     about Vb.Net as there CLASSes and controls made by other companies, other than Microsoft.

    Even Microsoft employees will not know about all of these, I guess, as there are many 3rd party companies
     that write add-ins for VISUAL STUDIO.


    Regards,

    John
    Friday, June 5, 2009 11:22 PM

  • I got the idea that Propose has different meanings in English. I use it like I do in England. 

    Nothing more then an suggestion for an answer which can always be denied (completely as the mechanisme works).

    Now I get the idea from the answers from Paul and you, that in American English it is probably more used as an intend, which let me then understand your both's sceptic against this.

    A person asks the question "How do I declare an Integer variable?".

    Someone replies, "Hello, you have an interesting way of typing!".   <<  this is NOT AN ANSWER , it is merely a response ...very bad and off-topic, but just a response.

    Another person replies, "Dim myVar As Integer = 0".  <<  this IS AN ANSWER because it provides a possible solution to the question.

    The concepts of a response and an answer are the same in the UK or in the US.  This is just the way I interpret the meanings for this forum.  If I'm wrong, I apologize.



    Doug
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 1:33 AM
  • There is still another situation which is mostly ignored:

    Assume for a second that a user asks a specific question and a correct answer has been given to him but he does not understand it or he finds it too complicate. So, this reply would not be marked as a correct answer (even though it was a correct answer); ... instead the OP checks an answer which might solve his problem for the moment but the technique used to accomplish it is wrong ... - ... would it now be the right thing to do to leave that 'bad technique' marked as correct answer or should it get unmarked and the correct one marked instead?

    Well, sure, a bit off-topic but it also applies to the questin "Should I mark my post as proposed answer or not?".

    Maybe the best way:
    Let the forum developers add a tiny little 'non-feature': remove the "PROPOSE AS ANSWER" button for the poster's own posts ... :-)
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 1:59 AM
  • i posted something similar with one of my threads.. the apology to forum members... don't pay attention to most of it, just the 'to all new members' part.

    to tell you the truth Paul P Clement IV, these guys won't listen..  here's proof!

    this is not a actual thread, this is just something i have to state.

    over 12 hours ago, i ended up acting like a jerk by using the CAPITALIZED TEXT as an answer in a form of shouting my response..  so far, this forum and the forum members that i constantly see supplying answers, are, and have been so faithful to the ms forum about making sure their responses are a solution to whoever asks a question, that i feel so offended by using such text, andt i wish my apology to be accepted..

    i do not ask for a reply/response, all i ask for is for the respect i have been receiving if it has been denied since my last thread.(deleted the bad stuff from it)..  good stuff ms..

    to all new members, respect the forum member and supply a defined question, to the limit defined.  to all members that mark their own replies as answers, that sux..  some code does not work for some one who asks the question that you reply too, due to maybe a forgotten dot, import, &,  or whatever.. wait till the member or another memeber marks the reply as the answer.. quit trying to bogart the answer ranks.. hmm..

    again, apologies, do respect my threads as if i never did offend, if i did.


    p.s. sorry ms.visual basic general forum for such a thread, i just had to define my hurt for such a great forum..  with all respect for ms first, and vb second, who cares who's third,

    trujade...........

    please do not reply. the thread views should be my response..

    if you can't find it here, ,although, i doubt it.

    did they listen not to reply? noooooooooo... lol.. (good job guys);o)

    as about proposing your own answer as a answer, that just smells like the ....!, you fill the blank in, if you think you got the right answer..
    otherwise, maybe, i just want the .... , so how can you propose that as my answer? or maybe just one dot?. if you're not sure, EXACTLY , what the questioneer, needs for a answer, EXACTLY, don't propose..  alot of divorces happen that way.

    if you want to know about me listening, just ask kaymaf about me and my , , , 's...

    propose that as a answer, and see if i don't delete the post, manually!

    trujade...

    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 2:18 AM
  • ' I kept mum'

    - Omie
    You are so fat, the recursive function computing your fatness causes a stack overflow :\
    hahahahahhahah.. hah.. that's a good one..
    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 2:20 AM
  • how can i propose that as a answer??
    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 2:21 AM
  • Not once have I read one of my own threads that was marked as an answer by a mod and found that it was actually the answer .


    not saying anything... alot of wrongs done that way... did i just say something? maybe i should propose it as a answer...
    trujade...

    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 2:30 AM

  • However, I would like it much better as only a moderator could make from a proposed answser an answer for MSDN and not an OP. (And I think then also that you and me cannot be a moderator, we like it to much to help)

    Cor 

    if op is the person posting the question, read on.
    'i somewhat disagree..  if the person posting the question, decides they have their answer from testing out the code, no matter how bad of a hack job code it might be, then they have their answer, and all of us can move on to the next unanswered question.'

    if op means something else, then someone please, propose this as a answer!  i don't want to get in trouble proposing to my self.. is that legal anyways? hmmm..

    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 2:41 AM
  • - ... would it now be the right thing to do to leave that 'bad technique' marked as correct answer or should it get unmarked and the correct one marked instead?

    that's why we need a meeting with the moderators.. it is our forum after all, right?
    i won't be there, i'm just trying to get my response marked..
    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 2:51 AM
  •  that in American English it is probably more used as an intend,

    that is not the correct answer.. sorry, i'm a foreigner by birth also.. (not really sure what intend means, but it's still wrong.. no check mark for you! good day.

    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 2:56 AM
  • here's a marked answer for a visual basic beginner:

    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vbgeneral/thread/bfbaf662-a495-4ee3-8485-b9542a9dad84

    now if you were a beginner, would you know what that code actually did?  wasn't me that marked my answer, and i still can't figure it out today.  and i progressed quite a bit with vb'in'..



    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 3:07 AM
  • trujade said:
    that's why we need a meeting with the moderators.. it is our forum after all, right? ...


    That is where you're wrong!

    Most people seem to make the mistake to see a forum, especially their own posts, as their property once they contribute to it! No matter how often you post nor reply - ... you're only a guest in the MSDN FORUMS house; you further have to follow house rules. The MDN Forums are provided to help you and giving you are platform for you to help others; however, you do not own it, so, it is not your form nor my forum nor our forum ... !

    AND: This is way off-topic !!! :-)

    Saturday, June 6, 2009 3:21 AM
  • propose that as a answer...

    it was a opinion to get the moderator to listen to the forum members ideas about their forum..  it is not our property, it is our forum. we answer the questions, not microsoft, therefore, it is the member's forum, so we should have a say so..

    just a say so.. not trying to create a corporation out of this..
    trujade..

    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 3:24 AM

  • AND: This is way off-topic !!! :-)

    do you ever pay attention to the threads and how off topic they are answered sometimes?  that's where i learned how to reply.. guess i need to repropose my proposition, or maybe look towards different available options to move on with, other than none.


    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 3:29 AM
  • ---- that in American English it is probably more used as an intend,
    -- that is not the correct answer.. sorry, i'm a foreigner by birth also.. (not really sure what intend means, but it's still wrong.. no check mark for you! good day. ,
    Now I get the idea from the answers from Paul and you, that in American English it is probably more used as an intend,
    Trujade,

    Will you please be so kind not to quoute messages in a way that they get a complete different meaning.
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 3:38 AM

  • we got a answer.. how do i mark it?
    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 3:40 AM
  • forgot, it's not my post.
    trujade.

    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 3:41 AM
  • Trujade,

    There is no answer as this was posted as a comment.

    BTW, thanks for your comments but is all the silliness necessary? Don't annoy the people who may help you in the future. :-)
    Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 3:46 AM
  • just thought i'd loosen things up a bit, since all that was needed said, was pretty much said.  plus, are you calling me silly? 

    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 3:53 AM
  • Now why would I call you silly when your name is trujade? ;-)
    Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 4:04 AM
  • Paul,


    This message thread: with its misquoting, mixing up answers with proposed answers, replies to persons, who did not made the text because cascading is not understood, shows exactly why I think it is right to use the "proposed answer". 

    In my current idea it would make everybody more easier to use this feature "proposed answer" in the future and to mark something as a proposed answer, as it in your idea can state that, you don't tell with that, that it's an answer; That cans a Mod do. 

    However, I find that nobody can tell that his own reply is a "real answer" for MSDN (because that is the reason for this feature).  I have sofar seen this often done by OP's and sometimes by a Mod. You know that answers are securely checked by regulars in good newsgroups. Here that possibility is not available and therefore we have to do as much as possible with all the tools Microsoft has given to us.

    I try to answer (like in newsgroups) to get an answer right for others in future, then to give an answer that is from past. With this "proposing mechanism" and good MSFT's as Mod like in this forum, this gives I have seen now the best result, while I was in the beginning skeptic about that.

    Therefore, why won't you try it, it hurts nobody, than those who cannot stand the evolution and want to go on in their own tradition.

    As forever in discussion threads,

    Just my opinion,

    Cor
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 4:08 AM

  • As forever in discussion threads,

    Just my opinion,

    Cor
    me also..
    trujade

    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 4:10 AM
  • @ Cor

    You need to read Doug's last post so you will understand the difference between an answer and a response.  The majority of your posts fall into the category of response, and a lot of them make no sense at all or contain nothing that helps the person that asked the question.  Marking such posts as a proposed answer is just plain wrong.  I don't use that option and never will, even though I do understand the difference between an answer and a response.
    It's also been said that threads having a proposed answer are more often skipped by most people.  It prevents people from getting adequate help because, more often than not, a thread marked as having a proposed answer, will be skipped by most people.  That's just another sad thing about that worthless option.

    Saturday, June 6, 2009 4:58 AM
  • @ Cor

    You need to read Doug's last post so you will understand the difference between an answer and a response.  The majority of your posts fall into the category of response, and a lot of them make no sense at all or contain nothing that helps the person that asked the question.  Marking such posts as a proposed answer is just plain wrong.  I don't use that option and never will, even though I do understand the difference between an answer and a response.
    It's also been said that threads having a proposed answer are more often skipped by most people.  It prevents people from getting adequate help because, more often than not, a thread marked as having a proposed answer, will be skipped by most people.  That's just another sad thing about that worthless option.


    Jim,

    Then tell my why this proposed post feature is for. Although I don't use it forever as you acquse me from, only if I think the reply can state as an complete answer on Internet. Exactly as you write, I state the replies from others also as a supposed answer, with the reason not to have to check everytime if there is maybe an answer in a message thread and can skip it the next time. As the OP simply unpropose it as he thinks that the answer does not fit him, then the mechanisme is fine.  

    By the way, I see you don't use more options from this forums, I assume this is a reply to me, however, you have given this as a reply to Paul.

    As I stated in my reply to Paul more or less, I don't look at tradition, I want the most efficient way.

    Cor 
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 5:11 AM
  • While reading all the comments and opinions about the PROPOSED ANSWER feature, I am tending to believe that this feature is just not working out! Too many forum members have too many different opinions on what this feature is intended for.

    The most efficient way would be if a reply proposed as answer is only visible to moderators, so, they can quickly mark a proposed answer post as answer. That way we wouldn't have this discussion. And btw, the OP still can mark a reply as answer ... !

    The HELP says nothing about the PROPOSED ANSWER feature, so, it seems to be WILD WILD WEST ! :-)

    You never should mark your own post as answer but if you think someone else's reply answered the OP's question - only that way it really makes sense the way it is now. And: you won't get points for marking your own posts as proposed answer either, so, no point in doing that! :-)
    • Edited by Earl Tut Saturday, June 6, 2009 5:24 AM
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 5:21 AM
  • we all had to put something on the table in order to create something.after all that stuff got thrown together, Junner2oo3, pieced something worth paying attention to.

    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 5:24 AM
  • where is that propose as answer button???


    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    • Edited by •.trujade.• Saturday, June 6, 2009 5:32 AM tried to relieve the tension..;o)
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 5:25 AM

  • By the way, I see you don't use more options from this forums, I assume this is a reply to me, however, you have given this as a reply to Paul.

    As I stated in my reply to Paul more or less, I don't look at tradition, I want the most efficient way.

    You assume correctly since I included " @ Cor " in my post.  I typed it myself and did not use the quote button.  You want the "most efficient way" ??  Then, why would you want to make the OP do MORE work by ALWAYS having to unmark your "proposed as answer" posts?  That's NOT an efficient use of the forum!
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 5:35 AM
  • me also..
    trujade


    Jim_T, you should change your name to Jim_Tough..


    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 6:01 AM

  • By the way, I see you don't use more options from this forums, I assume this is a reply to me, however, you have given this as a reply to Paul.

    As I stated in my reply to Paul more or less, I don't look at tradition, I want the most efficient way.

    You assume correctly since I included " @ Cor " in my post.  I typed it myself and did not use the quote button.  You want the "most efficient way" ??  Then, why would you want to make the OP do MORE work by ALWAYS having to unmark your "proposed as answer" posts?  That's NOT an efficient use of the forum!

    Jim,

    No there is a while a cascade possibility in the Microsoft forums, that makes it possible to put a reply direct beneath under the reply of somebody else which makes replying easier, you don't have to put in my name in now you are replying all the time to Paul instead to me.

    Therefore about your other reply which was then in the same reply line with this answer, why are you bother so much about that proposed answer.
    It is up to you to ignore it, it is up to me to use it (not only by setting it, but also to see if there is maybe a proposed answer in or that somebody like me simple has asked for more information, if there are proposed answers I first look at those and start not to read everytime 20 replies again).

    Cor
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 6:20 AM
  • i know who he's replying to.

    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 6:26 AM
  • i still can't find that propose as answer button for this post..

    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 6:33 AM
  • Nice Discussion :)

    I am also against of marking own post as proposed answer. I did that at the beginning myself when I was very new to this forum. I was going well(some days, I think a week or so) with that, but sometime later I found I was not not really addressing the real problem of the OP because questions were not clear or my assumption were wrong. Most of the time, when we post an answer, we think that should be an answer, thats why we post it, but it might not always be true. 

    I have seen in suggestion forums, request from Non MSFT moderator to remove self proposed or not allow self reply as a proposed answer, but developer are not very keen to change this feature, there must be some advantage of doing so, otherwise it would have been removed long time ago. So whatever the intention is, it would be good to get the clear reason of allowing user to propose there own answer. 

    I do propose answer of other users sometime when the answer is obvious and I also agree that user should be able to propose their own answer when OP just thanks without closing thread or asks a question and never comes back. It will also be good if all of us active user here propose answer for other users in such case since that looks better(before s/he him/herself proposes ;) ) that would greatly help moderators to save their time and close thread with best answer.

    Thanks to all for their views, have a great time ahead






    Arjun Paudel
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 6:40 AM
  • @trujade:
    There is no PROPOSE AS ANSWER button in a DISCUSSION THREAD !!!

    @Cor:
    Not everyone is using the THREADED FORUM VIEW - even me not; I hate that kind of look!

    @Jim & Cor:
    Why don't you 2 get a room? On your way out take trujade with you, LOL! :-)

    @ALL:
    This thread started off really interesting but has gotten pointless with all those off-topic stuff ... !
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 6:42 AM
  • Arjun Paudel --

    junner2oo3--roflmao (glad to be of service)


    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 6:45 AM
  • Arjun,

    I am not as pigheaded as I look maybe from my posts.

    I thought let's give Pauls proposal a change and not mark my own answers . In the hope Paul will follow my proposal.

    The result I can see, I marked an obvious correct answer from somebody (related to the question not all kind of new things the Op asks). That person told that the proposed answer posibility must not be used.

    I've answered a question where is no other answer possible related to the question about Trim but did not mark it as proposed answer, now we see an array of answers about the Trim including yours.

    Should the Op make the decission which are right the answers for MSDN and mark them all, no one until now is in fact wrong. 

    I've seen trujade marked his question as answer where the reply is from the years of Windows 3.11, nice for those people finding this answer on MSDH in future. I had not marked my reply as proposed answer because it was about Windows  nd that I don't have installed.

    I still keep the opinion that the proposed answer is the solution to this.

    Despite all behaviour by some on old traditions, I think I am back in the old Netscape days reading those.

    Cor
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 8:10 AM
  • Cor!  You are right re trim, but I just wanted  to emphasize string.Trim only there, instead of Trim Function there, just a suggestion, and if you read the question again, OP has already used Trim since he has mentioned that in First post

    in 2nd post, the actual code
    Trim(Me.ClientNameTextBox.Text)

    But he has not used it correct way, that means bdbodger has catched the error, and my addition is to emphasize string.Trim, thats all not Trim()



    Arjun Paudel
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 8:16 AM
  • Arjun,

    I had read that given text see bellow not as trimming

    "Ive tried timming but ive had no luck." 

    You can as well do something as

    dim ind as integer = myString.LastIndexOf(" ")
    dim mystring = myString.Substring(0,ind)

    It is trimming but it fails as there is no space at the end of the string.
    (While this probably trims only the last space)  ;-)

    And that way was as I have interpretted that sentence

    Cor

    Saturday, June 6, 2009 8:36 AM

  • in 2nd post, the actual code
    Trim(Me.ClientNameTextBox.Text)



    Which would have even gone better and more readable as I had proposed the answer and the OP had unproposed it.

    Now because all of the other replies I have missed that one.

    Cor
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 8:40 AM
  • Paul,
    ...

    Therefore, why won't you try it, it hurts nobody, than those who cannot stand the evolution and want to go on in their own tradition.

    As forever in discussion threads,

    Just my opinion,

    Cor

    Hi Cor,

    I don't have an issue with using the feature. But like any tool it can be abused and has been abused. I do use it, judiciously, to mark the responses of others as proposed answers. However, I will not mark my own responses as proposed answers. I don't feel it's appropriate. I think that all I was asking for was that contributors employ good judgement when using the feature.

    As far as Microsoft moderation is concerned, I don't have any issues here. I don't look at every question posted of course, but from my experience the moderators in the Visual Basic forums are very patient and very helpful in general.  


    Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 12:43 PM
  • i still can't find that propose as answer button for this post..

    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7

    I hid it just for you. ;-)
    Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 12:47 PM
  • As far as Microsoft moderation is concerned, I don't have any issues here. I don't look at every question posted of course, but from my experience the moderators in the Visual Basic forums are very patient and very helpful in general.  


    Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
    I second this one too, good track record of moderators in Visual Basic forums though I can see some issue in suggestion forum against other forum's moderators
    Arjun Paudel
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 12:49 PM
  • i still can't find that propose as answer button for this post..

    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7

    I hid it just for you. ;-)
    Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
    Paul!

    Can you not hide propose as answer for all threads in this forum? ;-)

    Arjun Paudel
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 12:51 PM
  • Arjun,

    You got it, as everybody who don't want proposed answers starts their question as a discussion, then it can not be proposed an not be marked as an answer. 

    :-)

    Cor
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 1:07 PM
  • Paul!

    Can you not hide propose as answer for all threads in this forum? ;-)

    Arjun Paudel
    Arjun,

    LOL! Nope I can only hide it for my posts. :-(

    Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 1:11 PM
  • So Paul -- bringing this back to the start -- the variety of use and complaints about this feature that your thread has evoked, for me, emphasizes the point I made earlier:  It is a feature made of good intentions but poorly deployed because there are as many opinions on how it should be used as there are people using it and there are no restrictions placed upon it.  It's a recipe for disaster for those of us who care about how the forum runs.
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 5:39 PM


  • I've seen trujade marked his question as answer where the reply is from the years of Windows 3.11, nice for those people finding this answer on MSDH in future. I had not marked my reply as proposed answer because it was about Windows  nd that I don't have installed.

    @Cor
    i only use vb2oo8.net, so if the code works in it, and i can understand it , i use it .  and i'm not programming in the future here... hmm.. maybe i should design a program to time travel in the future that only works on code from the past..

    sometimes i marked my own answers as answers due to getting the code from a forum member's answer and having to do a slight readjustment, that might not be too visible from overlooking the code, but it does improve it to get it to work properly.. this helps viewer to get the right code, instead of adding another post, mark that as answer, and have the fix added there..  i usually just view the first marked answer, and if i find that interesting, i view the rest of the post.

    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 7:32 PM
  • not funny hiding stuff.. i still can't find it...

    trujade....
    thanx guys for the giggles.  this was turning into a battle royale for a second.
    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 7:37 PM
  • I agree with the propose as answer being a little sketchy. Only the OP can actually know if it's the answer or not.

    Also, see my sig.
    Mods - Please do not mark my posts as answered. It is extremely rude. You have no idea if you've answered my question.

    I hereby second this motion. It is in bad taste for one to propose his response as the answer. As a beginner, I am aware that OPs are best suited to decide if and when there questions are answered and the best response to their post.

    I am proposing that the "Propose As Answer" button be removed completely.
    However, it is alright for Moderators to mark a given response as the answer if in their opinion that particular response is the correct answer and the OP has failed or neglected to mark it as the answer after a reasonable lenght of time is passed.


    ----------------------
    Moderator: I mistakenly pressed the "Report As Abuse" while trying to respond to Bleg's post. Please ignore/delete it (ie, my report)
    Only performance counts!
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 9:11 PM
  • I agree with the propose as answer being a little sketchy. Only the OP can actually know if it's the answer or not.

    Also, see my sig.
    Mods - Please do not mark my posts as answered. It is extremely rude. You have no idea if you've answered my question.

    I hereby second this motion. It is in bad taste for one to propose his response as the answer. As a beginner, I am aware that OPs are best suited to decide if and when their questions are answered and the best response to their post.

    I am proposing that the "Propose As Answer" button be removed completely.
    However, it is alright for Moderators to mark a given response as the answer if in their opinion that particular response is the correct answer and the OP has failed or neglected to mark it as the answer after a reasonable lenght of time is passed.


    ----------------------
    Moderator: I mistakenly pressed the "Report As Abuse" while trying to respond to Bleg's post. Please ignore/delete it (ie, my report)

    Only performance counts!
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 9:13 PM

  • ----------------------
    Moderator: I mistakenly pressed the "Report As Abuse" while trying to respond to Bleg's post. Please ignore/delete it (ie, my report)


    lol.. now that's a good one...
    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 9:14 PM
  • I am proposing that the "Propose As Answer" button be removed completely. 
    i disagree..
    proposing a answer should remain.  in many cases, if you read the question and question title , and there is a answer that suits the thread, then it should be marked as proposed. of course, by someone else.

    'me also...
    trujade..'


    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 9:18 PM
  • I believe this forum was created for learning purpose and the points you earned is the way of compensate your efforts and time you spent to response to questions. But now too many abuses of the forum, medal is the main reason for this selfish interest. This MSDN forum needs a clean up for illegal pattern of earning points. if you noticed some strange behavior in the forum , you have to raise the issue, like NOBUGZ did in this thread http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/csharpgeneral/thread/d661c486-9753-4996-a711-c53a3c0bb8a7 

    kaymaf
    I hope this helps, if that is what you want, just mark it as answer so that we can move on
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 9:47 PM
  • kaymaf--( smiley removed )
    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Saturday, June 6, 2009 9:53 PM
  • Sunday, June 7, 2009 12:27 AM
  • no need..
    one of those proposed answers should be correct.
    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Sunday, June 7, 2009 1:41 AM
  • I believe this forum was created for learning purpose and the points you earned is the way of compensate your efforts and time you spent to response to questions. But now too many abuses of the forum, medal is the main reason for this selfish interest. This MSDN forum needs a clean up for illegal pattern of earning points. if you noticed some strange behavior in the forum , you have to raise the issue, like NOBUGZ did in this thread http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/csharpgeneral/thread/d661c486-9753-4996-a711-c53a3c0bb8a7 

    kaymaf
    I hope this helps, if that is what you want, just mark it as answer so that we can move on
    Absolutely, I am not calling by name, but one of the top contributor(not in top 1 now ;) in vb forum was also caught as well in the beginning, but he changed his behaviour later after some warning 
    Arjun Paudel
    Sunday, June 7, 2009 3:59 AM
  • ( similey removed )
    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Sunday, June 7, 2009 11:45 AM
  • HMMMMPF!

    I spent a good hour or more getting some guys LINQ to XML working. After several back and forth I finally figured out what he was asking and posted *complete* working code.

    He changed ONE LINE to be culture neutral and marked HIS ANSWER as the answer.

    THAT makes me feel *VERY*unappreciated!

    So I marked my answer as a proposed answer as well.

    Based on all of the info here ... is that then bad form?
    www.insteptech.com
    We are volunteers and ask only that if we are able to help you, that you mark our reply as your answer. THANKS!

    In this instance, probably not. I've had something similar like that happen to me as well. I just let it go, but I did commit that users name to memory (ironically, he has posted to this thread).
    Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
    Tuesday, June 9, 2009 4:08 PM
  • HMMMMPF!

    I spent a good hour or more getting some guys LINQ to XML working. After several back and forth I finally figured out what he was asking and posted *complete* working code.

    He changed ONE LINE to be culture neutral and marked HIS ANSWER as the answer.

    THAT makes me feel *VERY*unappreciated!

    So I marked my answer as a proposed answer as well.

    Based on all of the info here ... is that then bad form?
    www.insteptech.com
    We are volunteers and ask only that if we are able to help you, that you mark our reply as your answer. THANKS!
    There are many threads like that, but self proposing does not help in many cases, some understands some needs direction and some are stubborn, they dont care once they get answer. And answer mark icon overwrites self propose icon in thread title so moderator never gets attention of that issue. 
    Arjun Paudel
    Tuesday, June 9, 2009 4:09 PM
  • not to be a meanie, but it does happen quite a bit.  there were cases where i was helped and i ended up posting the code, just a minor readjustment from the code received, as the answer..  this is only because the code received did not work properly, so my adjustment fixed it and i had to mark it as a answer in order for anyone else searching for a answer to a similar question, to get a correct response..  or, there were other replies added that ended up fixing the code, but it was not the entire code, in one reply, just bits and pieces.
    if i don't see the correct answer in one reply from a thread, i move on.  i'm sure others do as well.. my apologies, if it was me that did so Paul..

    trujade.

    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Tuesday, June 9, 2009 4:13 PM
  • For once, the following statement is an actual, working apology....

    @DeborahK : I am sorry that you feel that way. btw, your book was recommended today. I appreciate your posts, although I don't work in the areas that you do, that's probably only because I don't have your book, right? IMHO, your input is very valuable; I am sure that my code gets stolen far less often than yours does. Seriously, please feel better about it as soon as possible. Thanks.

    Honestly, I am only now grasping the concept's relevance. The comment about weighing a response by the badges and/or points probably makes sense to a newcomer, but overall, it seems to cause more grief than anything else. (That being human nature, not the fault of the system.)

    I have started marking posts as helpful, and even proposing answers, but...that is only my opinion, and not likely helpful to anyone. However, I have noticed some of you leaving excellent posts in threads that the OP subsequently abandoned. Those marks are important, I think...also, the ones I just proposed/marked as helpful for a moderator that does not mark their own are important.
    • Edited by jinzai Tuesday, June 9, 2009 4:47 PM fumble fingers
    Tuesday, June 9, 2009 4:46 PM
  • Thanks for the kind words, jinzai.

    I take great pleasure in figuring out how to use our set of .NET tools to solve problems. So there is a thrill simply from getting things working. But like many of you, I work alone. So it is *great* to feel appreciated from time to time with someone saying "yes! that fixed my problem" or just taking the time to mark it as a helpful answer.
    www.insteptech.com
    We are volunteers and ask only that if we are able to help you, that you mark our reply as your answer. THANKS!
    Tuesday, June 9, 2009 4:53 PM
  • trujade -

    I have seen OPs in this case mark all replies that lead to the solution as part of the answer.

    So as with "proposed answer", there are multiple meanings to "answer".

    Should only the full and complete answer be marked as an answer? Or every part that helped arrive at the final solution?

    This comes down to whether the point here is to provide a searchable database of problems and their complete solutions. Or to help specific people find their way to a solution.

    If the former, then should we not bother posting anything unless we can post the fully coded solution?


    www.insteptech.com
    We are volunteers and ask only that if we are able to help you, that you mark our reply as your answer. THANKS!
    Tuesday, June 9, 2009 4:57 PM
  • There are many threads like that, but self proposing does not help in many cases, some understands some needs direction and some are stubborn, they dont care once they get answer. And answer mark icon overwrites self propose icon in thread title so moderator never gets attention of that issue. 
    Arjun Paudel


    But the MSFT's can then see that and make a correction as it has been changed and can easier investigate that.

    I find the mechanism of propossing an answer right. But then I find that between the time from the last reply from an OP, the last Proposed answer there should at least be 1 day before it is marked as answer. Like can be seen the MSFT's do. I think that an OP should as well only be allowed to propose an answer, than what happened to Deborah should not have been. I agree that the impossibility to unpropose an answer yourself makes this mechanisme weak.

    I see the MSFT's in this forum doing it right as Moderator, but please let them be moderator and not others. Some can do that others cannot, the MSFT's have control between themselves.

    Cor

    Tuesday, June 9, 2009 5:03 PM
  • But the MSFT's can then see that and make a correction as it has been changed and can easier investigate that.

    I find the mechanism of propossing an answer right. But then I find that between the time from the last reply from an OP, the last Proposed answer there should at least be 1 day before it is marked as answer. Like can be seen the MSFT's do. I think that an OP should as well only be allowed to propose an answer, than what happened to Deborah should not have been. I agree that the impossibility to unpropose an answer yourself makes this mechanisme weak.

    I see the MSFT's in this forum doing it right as Moderator, but please let them be moderator and not others. Some can do that others cannot, the MSFT's have control between themselves.

    Cor

    You might be correct but I think moderator do not check answered thread mostly. I am not sure, only mods can only explain that. IMHO, OP should be allowed to mark their answer as well since you can find some of the questions in the forums solved by OP themselves(I know the drawback). But in Deborahk case, it seems OP has overused his/her power :) Lets hope this discussion will be read by moderators and understand such issues.



    Arjun Paudel
    Tuesday, June 9, 2009 5:11 PM

  • i'm lost..lol
    in my posted case above, i guess marking their replies as answers would help out as well, but i'm not sure which marked answer will be the 'tompost=true'  and would be most valuable to someone searching for a answer.  if 3 replies add up to one correct answer, which one should i mark as correct?  by marking all of them, would that not cheat everyone else out of their ranks?

    marking my own answer, if i had to fix the code, does not give me any points anyhow.
    kaymaf made sure i knew, before he knew my reason for slight readjustments.

    i know some people just leave the threads open after they get what they need, without any thanx, or (wink, wink), or not even marking a correct answer.
    but to me, if i know for certain that i helped them out, i do feel good.. although, those badges do look nice, all shiny and stuff..

    trujade..
    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    • Edited by •.trujade.• Tuesday, June 9, 2009 5:21 PM forgot the 'not' in first line
    Tuesday, June 9, 2009 5:12 PM
  • Moderators have their own flaws too, i have seen many threads in which moderator marked another moderator post as answer just for making a comment that does not related to OP question. This always happen when closing abandon thread. I understand it, they want to close the thread but marking closing comments as answer is unfair. The best way to treat everyone equal when thread is abandon and no specific answer to the problem is to lock the thread, so whoever view the thread will no that there is no answer to the problem. That is my suggestion.

    kaymaf
    I hope this helps, if that is what you want, just mark it as answer so that we can move on
    Tuesday, June 9, 2009 7:12 PM
  • A lot of newcomers to this forum do not understand the importance of giving credit to those who assist them. I was guilty, too. I have had cause of recent to go to some of my previous posts and either mark them as answered and vote some responses as helpful. There are a few questions that I have also answered and the OPs have since abandoned them as unanswered.

    We need to be patient with the newcomers. They will understand with time.
    Only performance counts!
    Tuesday, June 9, 2009 7:56 PM
  • If you can get the OP to mark his own post as the answer to his question, you have done a good job teaching.  For propose as answer, just drop the alert.
    Tuesday, June 9, 2009 10:40 PM
  • If you can get the OP to mark his own post as the answer to his question, you have done a good job teaching.  For propose as answer, just drop the alert.

    Agreed!
    And further: If the OP marks his own post as answer because he posted a solution which he found in another thread or website and not on his own, he should at least be fair enough to make a reference to the thread rather than just taking the credit for it!
    Listing SPEC's is not a review !!! :-)
    Tuesday, June 9, 2009 10:44 PM
  • something as such Junner2oo3?

    original info location: having problem with file...

    info:

    "in this project, i'm not using a timer..
    when i did use the timer, i had it to load a file in the textboxes, save the file to the other listbox, and stop when a label with the index of the first listbox got to 0..
    well, that timer just took off, ran over the 0, gave a error, shut my pc down, made the cd drive open/close a few times.  i think that was all..

    lol..
    timers are scary... "

    could something as such be a answer?


    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Tuesday, June 9, 2009 11:56 PM
  • > If I was a moderator I would be unmarking these in a heartbeat, especially when someone is proposing their own response as an answer (which is > presumptuous). 

    I am a Moderator and I have been unmarking these self-proposed answers "in a heartbeat". In that way I was able to get the number of proposed (but not marked up=marked as answer or down=unproposed) posts in "my" forums to a low level which I could zeroize on a daily basis.

    I was however "encouraged" to stop doing this automatically. So now I don't do it and thus I no longer do any sweeps of proposed as answer posts.



    The only solution is for the forum software to remove the possibility of someone proposing their own post. That would be a clear-cut solution.

    Unfortunately although most moderators would be glad to see the back of it, the forum software people are strangely reluctant to touch it.


    WSS FAQ sites: http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com and http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com
    Total list of WSS 3.0 / MOSS 2007 Books (including foreign language) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/Lists/v3%20WSS%20FAQ/V%20Books.aspx
    Wednesday, June 10, 2009 5:20 PM
  • @ Jluv1970
    what viruses have to do with this discussion?
    kaymaf
    I hope this helps, if that is what you want, just mark it as answer so that we can move on
    Wednesday, June 10, 2009 9:30 PM
  • @ Jluv1970
    what viruses have to do with this discussion?
    kaymaf
    I hope this helps, if that is what you want, just mark it as answer so that we can move on

    kaymaf,
    That's just a spam trying to get that dangerous software to mass! As you can see: he did not even know that Windows OneCare has been discontinued long long time ago! :-)

    Listing SPEC's is not a review !!! :-)
    Wednesday, June 10, 2009 9:34 PM
  • ahhh.. good one junner2oo3..
    crazy spammer.. spammed quite alot of threads with the same post.. just check his threads..
    can we get a moderator to delete such mess from a thread?  .... maybe if i could propose it as an answer, but i still can't find that in this post.
    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Wednesday, June 10, 2009 9:53 PM
    • Moved Martin Xie - MSFT MSFT 12 hours 13 minutes ago Move it to Suggestion/Feedback Forum for better support. Paul's suggestion is reasonable and seems be acceptable. Thank you for your valuable feedback! (From:Visual Basic General)

    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:13 PM

  • Way too long a read.  But I did catch a few posts that set me off:


    I have seen many threads in various forums here that have been slammed shut with a smug lip-service   ✔  that was bound to offend the OP.  Heck, it even offended me.  And I was only reading it.




    There.  I'm done.  You MVPs can go back to your bantering now.

    Saturday, July 4, 2009 5:38 PM

  • I have seen many threads in various forums here that have been slammed shut with a smug lip-service   ✔  that was bound to offend the OP.  Heck, it even offended me.





    Heres one such example:  Editions of Windows 7 that have the Group policy editor


    Monday, July 6, 2009 10:40 PM
  • >Heres one such example:  Editions of Windows 7 that have the Group policy editor

    You should try being a forum moderator for a day. The basic problem is that no-one is paying us (the non-MS moderators that is) to do this so we are all working in our free time. Free time is limited and yet we try to give answers to questions; move posts to correct forums and also mark good answers as answers.

    We spend more time over the answers. The moving posts and marking of answers are done in rapid mode. Usually they are still OK but occasionally they are not. If they aren't OK they can be corrected.

    I'll give you an example. A post mentions workflow three times in the first couple of lines and in the Title, so it gets moved to a workflow forum. Once there there are complaints that the question isn't about workflow at all but in rapid mode most Moderators are not going to read the entire post and the initial impression from all those mentions of workflow is what he bases the Move on.

    There's a similar problem with the marking of answers. In this case there was a detailed extract from a MS support person that the Moderator marked as an answer. He was if you like probably assuming that the MS support person knew what he was doing and that somewhere in that long extract was the answer to the question that was put. A mistake sure but not "slamming shut" (the forum is still available for more posts) or "smug lip-service" (how do you deduce smugness from him clicking "Mark as Answer"?) and why should marking a post as an answer "offend the OP".

    I've almost given up marking a post as an Answer because it's a no-win situation. No-one will thank you for marking correctly, but mark one wrong and you are slammed.

    WSS FAQ sites: http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com and http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com
    Total list of WSS 3.0 / MOSS 2007 Books (including foreign language) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/Lists/v3%20WSS%20FAQ/V%20Books.aspx
    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 8:58 AM

  • Touchy, aren't we?

    (1)  R.Z.MSFT is great.  (In fact, when he saw the conflicting MS info, he unmarked the "answer" that was given to him by C.F.MVP).

    (2)  This just happened today coincidentally while my post is already alive here.  It is not THE case.  Just A case.  It happens often, see?

    (3)  Had you BOTHERED TO READ my post there, it began with "I've been trying to get the answer for 6 months too"

    (3a) There are only 6 posts in that thread.  and 3 are single sentence.  Exhausting, eh?

    (4)  Again had you BOTHERED TO READ, within 20 minutes after my post, C.F.MSFT then came in and marked R.Z.MSFT's post as the answer.

    (4a) Which R.Z.MSFT later acknowledged was not an answer.  Because he is diligent and had integrity.



    Had you bothered to read the thread, Mike.

    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 10:18 AM
  • For someone who just gave you a nice explanation and insight into moderator's thinking, that is not a very nice response. Perhaps you can say "Thank you for the insights" and then make your comments?
    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 11:34 AM

  • For someone who just gave you a nice explanation and insight into moderator's thinking, that is not a very nice response. Perhaps you can say "Thank you for the insights" and then make your comments?




    It was not polite.  It was defensive and increasingly rude.  It finished by puking my complaint back into my face.

    That original complaint was not fully characterized by the single example I cited later.  That later incident had just occurred spontaneously.  The way Mike rephrased and applied my words was deliberately out of context, and he knows better.  Ironically, I was complaining about disrespect in these forums, and Mike just delivered another dose of it.



    Brian, if you feel this is any of your business, then you should read the few posts above, and click that link before you jump in.  Otherwise, you are just brown-nosing.

    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 12:50 PM

  • Oh, and now a red-box?

    That just serves as a magnet to bring everybody's attention to it.


    What is your objective?  Ridicule upon disrespect?

    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 1:04 PM

  • Oh, and now a red-box?

    That just serves as a magnet to bring everybody's attention to it.


    What is your objective?  Ridicule upon disrespect?


        Your post was reported as abuse because of your attitudes toward moderators. The thread you referring to Editions of Windows 7 that have the Group policy editor is not even your thread. If you have a question to ask, create your own thread in which you will have control over it. If moderator marked any post in your thread as answer and you are not satisfied with the solution , then unmarked it.  This is just a simple arithmetic  (1 + 1) or marked + unmarked.  Attitudes will not get you anywhere or what you want in this forum may be BING and GOOGLE will offer you some.

    kaymaf
    I hope this helps, if that is what you want, just mark it as answer so that we can move on
    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 4:38 PM

  • (1)  Your post was reported as abuse because of your attitudes toward moderators.

    (2)  The thread you referring to Editions of Windows 7 that have the Group policy editor is not even your thread.

    (3)  Attitudes will not get you anywhere or what you want in this forum may be BING and GOOGLE will offer you some.


    kaymaf
    I hope this helps, if that is what you want, just mark it as answer so that we can move on


    (1)  I was not abusive.  You just resent my refusal to kowtow.

    (2)  Oh, I see.  Contributors' posts are of no value here.  I hope that opinion is yours alone.

    (3)  Kaymaf, my original post here is a protest of some MVPs' condescending attitudes.  Examine yours.

    (4)  I genuinely  hope this helps.

    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 9:48 PM
  • derosnec,
    I am beginning to wonder what your problem is! If you don't like it here in the MSDN Forums or if you don't like the way things are handled by moderators or others, please go! Built your own little forum where you can live out your own ideas / forum rules!

    Your attitude is really upsetting the majority of people, not only the ones taking the time to respond to you! You are offending and ignorant - 2 properties which are absolutely incompatible with a community - and who knows what other issues you might have!

    Instead of appreciating the time a MOD took to explain to you why some answers might be marked improperly you just turn his words around in a way that nothing makes sense! Mike Walsh MVP has not given any offence torwards you nor to anyone else. If English is not your mother tongue, well, then you better get you a better dictionary and stop using Google Translate!

    Well,
    I said everything I wanted to say! Now, stop bothering and get a life!

    Listing SPEC's is not a review !!! :-)
    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 10:11 PM
  • just because it says moderator, does not mean it says' correct .. i have seen plenty threads, marked as answer by a moderator, with a wrong answer.

    this is one of my replies from this post:
    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vbgeneral/thread/5a4db104-d114-4eec-ae3e-0f6dd49a8938

    as for getting help, just because one person thinks they are bill gates, does not mean everyone thinks the same.  i still get help.
    this nonsense about googling and binging has to stop, it has no effect.

    as for the part of having a glowing red neon around one of my replies, i like also.  does draw more attention.. i've got quite a few in some of my nonsense posts, as 'earning my medals' and 'earning my medals 2'.. just good reading, nothing else..

    good thing i can find something as 'earning my medals' by doing a forum search.. kinda nice.
    not nice at all to search on microsoft's forum for 'how to make a real key generator' and find one thread to help.  this is not piratesbay.vb.net.com. period.

    i did apologize in that link above, to cool things off, but honestly....

    this reply is not intended to cause more replies that have no reason to be replied.

    by the way, i like the way you think derosnec, and lovely picture.. could not have found a better link myself. ;o)

    just a member and that member's opinion, nothing else.
    trujade.





    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 10:20 PM

  • please go!...Your attitude is really upsetting the majority of people...You are offending and ignorant

    I said everything I wanted to say! Now, stop bothering and get a life!




    You represent that majority?  With those words?

    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 10:21 PM
  • derosnec, earl tut is just another one thinking they are bill gates.. that should about cover that.
    i have learned to just bypass all his replies..

    just my opinion, nothing else..
    trujade..
    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 10:25 PM

  • please go!...Your attitude is really upsetting the majority of people...You are offending and ignorant

    I said everything I wanted to say! Now, stop bothering and get a life!




    You represent that majority?  With those words?


    No, that aren't my words - you arranged them to your likings but still, they contain a message to you not only stated by myself!
    Listing SPEC's is not a review !!! :-)
    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 10:31 PM
  • derosnec, earl tut is just another one thinking they are bill gates.. that should about cover that.
    i have learned to just bypass all his replies..

    just my opinion, nothing else..
    trujade..
    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7

    Hah,
    looks like trujade found a friend! :-)
    I have no reason to think I am Bill Gates, I have my own personality but if I were thinking it I surely wouldn't waste my time responding to you! ;-)

    Sadly, trujade, you still haven't learnt to let things go and you merge contents all together which don't belong together!
    Listing SPEC's is not a review !!! :-)
    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 10:36 PM
  • i'm glad there is someone else to even keep moderators in check, minus well members..  this is needed for a functional forum, or else they would all get the same reply "go find another forum if you don't like what i have to say, i am bill gates".. (if you read this bill, nothing but respect for you i have, and will keep trying to keep microsoft beautiful.)

    hope you like my msn messenger smileys..
    trujade.
    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 10:39 PM
  • and about the personal replies of what someone should do or not do, just so i sound like i'm important, here's a suggestion:
    go eat a pile of dirt.
    how's that for a personal reply of what you should be doing.

    just my opinion, nothing else.
    trujade.
    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 11:08 PM
  • this nonsense about googling and binging has to stop, it has no effect.


      @ Trujade,  I mentioned google and bing what your problem, you can stick to derosnec attitude that does not bother me. May be two of you should start your your own forum through Twitter, where there is no rule and you can post anything you want.

    kaymaf 
    I hope this helps, if that is what you want, just mark it as answer so that we can move on
    Wednesday, July 8, 2009 1:12 AM
  • >Heres one such example:  Editions of Windows 7 that have the Group policy editor

    You should try being a forum moderator for a day. The basic problem is that no-one is paying us (the non-MS moderators that is) to do this so we are all working in our free time. Free time is limited and yet we try to give answers to questions; move posts to correct forums and also mark good answers as answers.

    We spend more time over the answers. The moving posts and marking of answers are done in rapid mode. Usually they are still OK but occasionally they are not. If they aren't OK they can be corrected.

    I'll give you an example. A post mentions workflow three times in the first couple of lines and in the Title, so it gets moved to a workflow forum. Once there there are complaints that the question isn't about workflow at all but in rapid mode most Moderators are not going to read the entire post and the initial impression from all those mentions of workflow is what he bases the Move on.

    There's a similar problem with the marking of answers. In this case there was a detailed extract from a MS support person that the Moderator marked as an answer. He was if you like probably assuming that the MS support person knew what he was doing and that somewhere in that long extract was the answer to the question that was put. A mistake sure but not "slamming shut" (the forum is still available for more posts) or "smug lip-service" (how do you deduce smugness from him clicking "Mark as Answer"?) and why should marking a post as an answer "offend the OP".

    I've almost given up marking a post as an Answer because it's a no-win situation. No-one will thank you for marking correctly, but mark one wrong and you are slammed.

    WSS FAQ sites: http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com and http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com
    Total list of WSS 3.0 / MOSS 2007 Books (including foreign language) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/Lists/v3%20WSS%20FAQ/V%20Books.aspx

    Mike, just now this thread got taken off line:  http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7itprogeneral/thread/e6370fbf-5481-4a53-9612-6e41b003815d#6f0bdfef-068e-446f-8f9d-8b2ab19647e1  It was just a silly trolling thread of little value, as you can see from its title:  Oh well, good luck MS...  I was not the OP.  But basically, I was the cause of its being deleted.  What happened is that CF.MVP came in, and without any post or words, marked an ultra pro-MS post as "answer".  Not that its content really mattered.  But the audacity and disrespect of CF.MVP set me off.  So I posted a remark about that fact, not too searing, just the facts.  I included reference to the other recent thread where CF.MVP had done that too.  As a reminder.  (The one I mentioned in the earlier post above:  Editions of Windows 7 that have the Group policy editor  ).

    So, while I have had very little interaction with you Mike, and regret our banging heads here in this thread, please recognize the pattern I am explaining.  I don't know if it is between CF.MVP and me personally, or if it is random distribution.  But it is real.  Real offensive.

    Thursday, July 9, 2009 5:41 AM
  • heeey, i got a neon light around my post also.. lol if it was a flashing red neon, it would look better..

    glad it draws attention better, because all of this 'what i think is better for you and what you should be doing to make everybody happy, not yourself ' is not going to keep anyone from doing what they are doing..

    at least i know someone payed attention to it.
    just some nonsense, please disregard.. it looks nice though.. ;o)
    trujade..
    help out microsoft for helping you.. test run 7
    Thursday, July 9, 2009 3:53 PM
  • >Heres one such example:  Editions of Windows 7 that have the Group policy editor

    You should try being a forum moderator for a day. The basic problem is that no-one is paying us (the non-MS moderators that is) to do this so we are all working in our free time. Free time is limited and yet we try to give answers to questions; move posts to correct forums and also mark good answers as answers.

    We spend more time over the answers. The moving posts and marking of answers are done in rapid mode. Usually they are still OK but occasionally they are not. If they aren't OK they can be corrected.

    I'll give you an example. A post mentions workflow three times in the first couple of lines and in the Title, so it gets moved to a workflow forum. Once there there are complaints that the question isn't about workflow at all but in rapid mode most Moderators are not going to read the entire post and the initial impression from all those mentions of workflow is what he bases the Move on.

    There's a similar problem with the marking of answers. In this case there was a detailed extract from a MS support person that the Moderator marked as an answer. He was if you like probably assuming that the MS support person knew what he was doing and that somewhere in that long extract was the answer to the question that was put. A mistake sure but not "slamming shut" (the forum is still available for more posts) or "smug lip-service" (how do you deduce smugness from him clicking "Mark as Answer"?) and why should marking a post as an answer "offend the OP".

    I've almost given up marking a post as an Answer because it's a no-win situation. No-one will thank you for marking correctly, but mark one wrong and you are slammed.

    WSS FAQ sites: http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com and http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com
    Total list of WSS 3.0 / MOSS 2007 Books (including foreign language) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/Lists/v3%20WSS%20FAQ/V%20Books.aspx

    Mike, just now this thread got taken off line:  http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7itprogeneral/thread/e6370fbf-5481-4a53-9612-6e41b003815d#6f0bdfef-068e-446f-8f9d-8b2ab19647e1  It was just a silly trolling thread of little value, as you can see from its title:  Oh well, good luck MS...  I was not the OP.  But basically, I was the cause of its being deleted.  What happened is that CF.MVP came in, and without any post or words, marked an ultra pro-MS post as "answer".  Not that its content really mattered.  But the audacity and disrespect of CF.MVP set me off.  So I posted a remark about that fact, not too searing, just the facts.  I included reference to the other recent thread where CF.MVP had done that too.  As a reminder.  (The one I mentioned in the earlier post above:  Editions of Windows 7 that have the Group policy editor  ).

    So, while I have had very little interaction with you Mike, and regret our banging heads here in this thread, please recognize the pattern I am explaining.  I don't know if it is between CF.MVP and me personally, or if it is random distribution.  But it is real.  Real offensive.



    Mike, now look at this.  If it remains long enough for you to see it.     Win 7 on new hardware

    In this thread, I have posted links to OEM EULA and Microsoft Whitesheet regarding legal prescribed re-activation of a Windows copy.  CF.MVP is just spreading FUD and somebody has already deleted my post.  I put it back up.  This is how I get banned.  What's the matter with you folks?



    EDIT POST MORTUM:

    Here is a follow-up protest from the OP:  Carey Frisch did not answer this yet my thread was closed!   I have just posted my info again there.  Let's see if it sticks this time.  Or if it is again deleted by some runaway MVP.



    Here are the offending links that some MVP seems to think are controversial and need to be censored.  Judge for yourself:

    White Paper: Microsoft’s Software Protection Platform: Innovations for Windows Vista and Windows

    http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=69500



    Friday, July 10, 2009 4:42 AM

  • Oh well, good luck MS... 



    Ronnie Vernon MVP, I think the deletion of glacia's thread was totally disrespectful, and your defense of it in Vanished thread (locked) is a vulgar lie.

    While I actually disagree with much of glacia's opinion, I  100%  support his right to express it.  In my own limited research, it seems his unfavorable opinion represents nearly 85% of businesses that have been surveyed.  So, I am educated by his (deleted) opinion.  You will delete this post too, because that is how you elevate your own self esteem. Your locking that thread was a cowardly cheapshot.  Yeah it was.  You have earned my contempt.

    Friday, July 10, 2009 9:37 AM

  • Ok, let's see how long my post (repeated below) lasts in the thread I want to pre order my Windows 7.

    I put a little challenge at the end to try and make it stick.  I doubt it will help.  We'll see...





    The EU version will be a bit different... Thank the folks from Opera for this issue.
    The folks from Opera may have complained; but the EU made "this issue!" Not Opera.





    How did that exchange get in here?  Oh poor persecuted Microsoft.  Let's never miss an opportunity to blame someone else far away for the Integrated Browser issue that started right at home with Netscape.



    Of course, critical remarks never get deleted in this forum.  Never.

    Saturday, July 11, 2009 5:06 PM

  • Ok, let's see how long my post (repeated below) lasts in the thread I want to pre order my Windows 7.

    I put a little challenge at the end to try and make it stick.  I doubt it will help.  We'll see...





    And the result?  It did get deleted.  Now I've posted the reply shown below.  It will get deleted too, you can bet on it.



    Egads

    Your post was removed for being off topic.

    These forums are primary meant for technical support issues and we try to deter discussing legal issues, since nobody posting here is qualified to give an official comment on these issues. 

    You may not be aware of this, but the information and link you posted was resolved many years ago.

    Thanks for understnding.


    Ronnie Vernon MVP
    Forum Moderator







    The EU doesn't think so.  They're resolving it now.

    But I didn't go off topic.  I was merely responding to the two off-topic jabs above, which you encourage in a biased manner.





    I made it perfectly clear I objected only to the off-topic exchange.  You know that.

    Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:30 PM

  • Ok, let's see how long my post (repeated below) lasts in the thread I want to pre order my Windows 7.

    I put a little challenge at the end to try and make it stick.  I doubt it will help.  We'll see...





    And the result?  It did get deleted.  Now I've posted the reply shown below.  It will get deleted too, you can bet on it.







    Yes indeed.  It got deleted.  Let's push it further and see what happens.  Here's what I posted next:




    Egads

    Your post was removed for being off topic.

    These forums are primary meant for technical support issues and we try to deter discussing legal issues, since nobody posting here is qualified to give an official comment on these issues. 

    You may not be aware of this, but the information and link you posted was resolved many years ago.

    Thanks for understnding.


    Ronnie Vernon MVP
    Forum Moderator







    Ronnie, censorship is unAmerican.


    Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:35 PM
  • this kind of stuff is worth removing my alert from a thread..
    not being a meanie, just my opinion, and no need replying to this post, since my alerts are off, as now.
    trujade.
    i like: VB General  google  fast cars  username password
    Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:41 PM

  • Ok, let's see how long my post (repeated below) lasts in the thread I want to pre order my Windows 7.

    I put a little challenge at the end to try and make it stick.  I doubt it will help.  We'll see...


    And the result?  It did get deleted.  Now I've posted the reply shown below.  It will get deleted too, you can bet on it.


    Yes indeed.  It got deleted.  Let's push it further and see what happens.  Here's what I posted next:





    Censored again.


    So you see, Mike Walsh MVP, I appreciate that you're overwhelmed and unrewarded as a volunteer.



    But that is not the same problem I was bringing to your attention.

    Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:03 PM

  • Sorry to bore you with my exercise, Trujade.

    Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:07 PM
  • when you need something to accomplish, some would walk to the end of the world to do so..
    i have tried that once, but could not find that end..

    no/problemo derosnec..
    some people when they get to a certain point somewhere, they think they own the world and may do as they please.
    good thing for little people like you and me for example, to keep them in check and remind them where they came from, the little people.
    trujade.

    (fooled you with my alerts off.. this thread started out as good a thing, so alerts stay on..)
    i like: VB General  google  fast cars  username password
    Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:46 PM
  • Ok, let's see how long my post (repeated below) lasts in the thread I want to pre order my Windows 7.

    I put a little challenge at the end to try and make it stick.  I doubt it will help.  We'll see...


    And the result?  It did get deleted.  Now I've posted the reply shown below.  It will get deleted too, you can bet on it.


    Yes indeed.  It got deleted.  Let's push it further and see what happens.  Here's what I posted next:

    Censored again.





    More choir practice in this thread.  Again I protest the apparent Moderator bias.  Here's the next post in the sequence.  Let's see what happens.





                      Thank the folks from Opera for this issue.


    The folks from Opera may have complained; but the EU made "this issue!" Not Opera.
    Old Mig15 pilot. Using Windows 7 RC Vista that works.

    Davy -

    True... But if Opera didn't complain, the EU wouldn't have had anything to work with in creating the issue in the first place.



    I think the above-quoted exchange is knowingly off topic.  What do you plan to do about it, Ronnie?


    Sunday, July 12, 2009 6:08 AM
  • i guess my little people comment in my previous reply got somebody trigger happy.. and let me guess, no 'mark as abuse' for Earl Tut.. hmm.. did not take long to figure out..



    trujade..
    just made sure this is was noticed also! and to let the little people get back to what they were doing..


    i like: VB General   google   fast cars   username password
    Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:09 AM
  • Ok, let's see how long my post (repeated below) lasts in the thread I want to pre order my Windows 7.

    I put a little challenge at the end to try and make it stick.  I doubt it will help.  We'll see...


    And the result?  It did get deleted.  Now I've posted the reply shown below.  It will get deleted too, you can bet on it.


    Yes indeed.  It got deleted.  Let's push it further and see what happens.  Here's what I posted next:

    Censored again.

    More choir practice in this thread.  Again I protest the apparent Moderator bias.  Here's the next post in the sequence.  Let's see what happens.






    Censored again!  Let's try a little condescending intellectualism this time.  Might this stick?  Here's my next post:






    Thank the folks from Opera for this issue.
    The folks from Opera may have complained; but the EU made "this issue!" Not Opera.
    True... But if Opera didn't complain, the EU wouldn't have had anything to work with in creating the issue in the first place.





    Wolfie, if you insist upon taking a choirboy jab at this thing, then realize that Microsoft's success depends on this very same ecosystem of software developers that you are belittling.  Had all these software developers not contributed during these past 25 years, Microsoft would still be peddling Interactive Basic to an amateur industry of of garage geeks and hackers.  There has been a long visible history of creative, promising and yes, financially successful companies that have come...

    ...and gone...

    ...all to Microsoft's benefit.  


    The EU/EC has sought to make this equitable and fair for everybody through the means which they are entitled to exercise.  If this forum is not the proper place to discuss both its merits and faults, then you should have more discretion than to bring up this topic at all.  Your jab seems snide and gleeful.  It is called a red herring.  (Look it up).

    The moderators should likewise recognize the biased image they are revealing in permittng your behavior.


    Sunday, July 12, 2009 6:31 PM
  • thanx alicia cales MSFT, for relocating and your description of the reason for the new thread location..
    it does contain useful information for this forum, as well as the newly replies by derosnec that do consist of suggestions and feedback, in their own twisted ways.
    thanx again, and apologies about the recent fluff, but some things were needed to be straightened out.
    trujade
    i like: VB General  google  fast cars  username password
    Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:24 PM

  • Just a request of courtesy (I don't make or enforce the rules):

    Please allow the OPs of questions and other participants time to respond to posts in the forums before proposing responses as answers to questions. If I was a moderator I would be unmarking these in a heartbeat, especially when someone is proposing their own response as an answer (which is presumptuous). 

    Let the OPs review the responses and mark any as answers and the moderators can handle the questions that have been abandoned. :-)


    Paul ~~~~ Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)




    Here is a perfect example:  Access deny on c drive and all aministrator apps


    Thursday, July 16, 2009 10:49 AM
  • Isn't every post made on this board put forth as an answer by the poster?
    Why bother clicking the button for your own post to state the obvious?
    Monday, August 10, 2009 2:44 AM