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  • Question

  • I’ve built a compliant box to host WHS whose main board (Intel) contains 8 SATA connectors in 2 sets of four.  The XP Pro OS is mounted on 2 striped disks (160 GB each) as one volume and 4 striped (don’t ask) (500 GB each) as another volume.

     

    WHS appears to prefer a single disk install vice a RAID volume install with additional disks as single volumes.  I envision that to accommodate the preference I will have to break both striped volumes which I think will leave me with an inoperable system until I reboot from XP CD in which case I will go for the clean install as there is no data on box.  I assume any necessary drivers for the RAID controllers (Intel and Silicon Image) will be available through the XP CD or I’ll have to provide manually.  Two small SATA drives and optical drives will go to one controller and the 4 larger drives will go to the other controller.  I foresee that after XP installs the drives it will install the OS on the volume I choose.  Hopefully, a successful install of XP will then allow me to install WHS.

     

    Any comments or holes in this scenario?

    Monday, July 23, 2007 2:06 AM

Answers

  •  Raid wrote:

    I’ve built a compliant box to host WHS whose main board (Intel) contains 8 SATA connectors in 2 sets of four. The XP Pro OS is mounted on 2 striped disks (160 GB each) as one volume and 4 striped (don’t ask) (500 GB each) as another volume.

    WHS appears to prefer a single disk install vice a RAID volume install with additional disks as single volumes. I envision that to accommodate the preference I will have to break both striped volumes which I think will leave me with an inoperable system until I reboot from XP CD in which case I will go for the clean install as there is no data on box. I assume any necessary drivers for the RAID controllers (Intel and Silicon Image) will be available through the XP CD or I’ll have to provide manually. Two small SATA drives and optical drives will go to one controller and the 4 larger drives will go to the other controller. I foresee that after XP installs the drives it will install the OS on the volume I choose. Hopefully, a successful install of XP will then allow me to install WHS.

    Any comments or holes in this scenario?

    There are a couple of holes. First, as has been said already, RAID is not a supported scenario. It's certainly possible to install WHS on a machine with a RAID array, but Microsoft doesn't code or test for it. So if you want your WHS to be a supported configuration, you should rethink your desire for RAID.

    Next, you don't get to designate the drive the system installs on. WHS takes the first drive it can install on (as presented by the BIOS) and makes that the system drive. For other reasons, you want your system drive to be large, so you should use one of your 500 GB drives as the first drive.

    Finally, when you install, WHS will format and repartition all drives connected to your system. You receive ample warning that this will occur, but this means that anything you've previously installed, and any partitions you've previously created, will be lost.

    If you decide to proceed with RAID despite the above, here are a couple of hints and tips:
    • Don't even think about OS-level RAID. You want a RAID controller (motherboard or standalone).
    • Don't use RAID 0. A RAID 0 array has a shorter MTBF than any single drive in the array. The whole point of a server is stability and data protection; why sacrifice that for speed that you'll never see over the network anyway?
    • Make one of your 500 GB drives as the system drive. It will deliver a better user experience.
    • Make the other 3 500 GB drives a RAID 5 array.
    • When you install, you will be asked for additional drivers twice. Once is during the initial graphical setup, and once is at the start of the text-mode setup (the "Press F6" prompt). You want to use Windows 2003 drivers at both points. I've had bad luck using a flash drive to supply the drivers, so you should use a floppy.
    Let us know if you have more questions.
    Monday, July 23, 2007 4:23 AM
    Moderator

All replies

  • Hi,

    Many words you will find here regarding RAID+WHS protection.

    I run 3 servers with raid6, but I kept WHS on it on protection.

    So to me, it will be best, if did not apply the raid on whs server, simply the duplication are enough in whs case, you can add/remove expended the whs pool any time, without to worry about the raid "array" be the problem

    My best.
    Monday, July 23, 2007 2:10 AM
  •  Raid wrote:

    I’ve built a compliant box to host WHS whose main board (Intel) contains 8 SATA connectors in 2 sets of four. The XP Pro OS is mounted on 2 striped disks (160 GB each) as one volume and 4 striped (don’t ask) (500 GB each) as another volume.

    WHS appears to prefer a single disk install vice a RAID volume install with additional disks as single volumes. I envision that to accommodate the preference I will have to break both striped volumes which I think will leave me with an inoperable system until I reboot from XP CD in which case I will go for the clean install as there is no data on box. I assume any necessary drivers for the RAID controllers (Intel and Silicon Image) will be available through the XP CD or I’ll have to provide manually. Two small SATA drives and optical drives will go to one controller and the 4 larger drives will go to the other controller. I foresee that after XP installs the drives it will install the OS on the volume I choose. Hopefully, a successful install of XP will then allow me to install WHS.

    Any comments or holes in this scenario?


    This isn't an XP forum, it's WHS and RAID isn't supported on WHS, although some people use it.
    Monday, July 23, 2007 2:22 AM
  • If I may add some word regarding RAID:

    RAID never meant as protection, it was design for "uptime" issue, you still have to "backup" with raid, I simply use raid 6 over raid5 to give more chance to recover if hard disk failed (in raid5 2 and the array will be gone, on raid6, 3 failed hard disks and the array will be lost).

    I been with RAID for a long time now, and I had my share with array lose.

    My best.
    Monday, July 23, 2007 2:26 AM
  •  abobader wrote:
    If I may add some word regarding RAID:

    RAID never meant as protection, it was design for "uptime" issue, you still have to "backup" with raid, I simply use raid 6 over raid5 to give more chance to recover if hard disk failed (in raid5 2 and the array will be gone, on raid6, 3 failed hard disks and the array will be lost).

    I been with RAID for a long time now, and I had my share with array lose.

    My best.

    Actually RAID *was* designed for data protection *and* IO performance. RAID, in it's various forms, provides added performance and/or data reliability, depending on the proper use and application, of course.

    The various arguments, over which RAID level to use, are pretty complicated and many.
    Monday, July 23, 2007 2:36 AM
  •  Raid wrote:

    I’ve built a compliant box to host WHS whose main board (Intel) contains 8 SATA connectors in 2 sets of four. The XP Pro OS is mounted on 2 striped disks (160 GB each) as one volume and 4 striped (don’t ask) (500 GB each) as another volume.

    WHS appears to prefer a single disk install vice a RAID volume install with additional disks as single volumes. I envision that to accommodate the preference I will have to break both striped volumes which I think will leave me with an inoperable system until I reboot from XP CD in which case I will go for the clean install as there is no data on box. I assume any necessary drivers for the RAID controllers (Intel and Silicon Image) will be available through the XP CD or I’ll have to provide manually. Two small SATA drives and optical drives will go to one controller and the 4 larger drives will go to the other controller. I foresee that after XP installs the drives it will install the OS on the volume I choose. Hopefully, a successful install of XP will then allow me to install WHS.

    Any comments or holes in this scenario?

    There are a couple of holes. First, as has been said already, RAID is not a supported scenario. It's certainly possible to install WHS on a machine with a RAID array, but Microsoft doesn't code or test for it. So if you want your WHS to be a supported configuration, you should rethink your desire for RAID.

    Next, you don't get to designate the drive the system installs on. WHS takes the first drive it can install on (as presented by the BIOS) and makes that the system drive. For other reasons, you want your system drive to be large, so you should use one of your 500 GB drives as the first drive.

    Finally, when you install, WHS will format and repartition all drives connected to your system. You receive ample warning that this will occur, but this means that anything you've previously installed, and any partitions you've previously created, will be lost.

    If you decide to proceed with RAID despite the above, here are a couple of hints and tips:
    • Don't even think about OS-level RAID. You want a RAID controller (motherboard or standalone).
    • Don't use RAID 0. A RAID 0 array has a shorter MTBF than any single drive in the array. The whole point of a server is stability and data protection; why sacrifice that for speed that you'll never see over the network anyway?
    • Make one of your 500 GB drives as the system drive. It will deliver a better user experience.
    • Make the other 3 500 GB drives a RAID 5 array.
    • When you install, you will be asked for additional drivers twice. Once is during the initial graphical setup, and once is at the start of the text-mode setup (the "Press F6" prompt). You want to use Windows 2003 drivers at both points. I've had bad luck using a flash drive to supply the drivers, so you should use a floppy.
    Let us know if you have more questions.
    Monday, July 23, 2007 4:23 AM
    Moderator
  • Ken,
    when you post, you really post, covering all the spot in the subject, amazing support indeed.
    Well done!

    My best.



    Monday, July 23, 2007 4:41 AM
  •  Ken Warren wrote:
    • Make one of your 500 GB drives as the system drive. It will deliver a better user experience.
    • Make the other 3 500 GB drives a RAID 5 array.


    On my non-stock WHS box, I did virtually the complete opposite. I made a 4x250G RAID5 array for the primary drive and used a 320G drive as the data drive. I was interested in performance and fault tolerance. By doing it this way I ended up with ~700G for C and D (also resized) with 320 available for replication. Even if I add 500G drives later, the primary will still be the largest drive, as suggested. Without the array, the largest drive would only be 320G and I'd have ~300G more but it'd be slower. Wink


    Monday, July 23, 2007 4:57 AM
  • SME, I don't recommend putting the system disk on a RAID array because I firmly believe there's a point of diminishing returns as far as the size of the system drive improving performance is concerned, and because restoring the system if a drive in the array fails seems to take just about as long as reinstalling WHS.

    If you have enough space on the primary data partition to copy several times the usual "single shot" data copy to WHS, and you have plenty of free space elsewhere, then there's no point in a larger system drive. For me (and I suspect for most people) that "sweet spot" is around 160 GB for the system drive. Having 120 GB or so above the OS partition seems to give me plenty of space. I'm not copying large numbers of DVD .isos, though, so I suppose the sweet spot for someone with a lot of media that they're working with constantly might be a bit higher. I'd be interested in some numbers, if you fall into that category; maybe your sweet spot is 250 GB, or 400, or more.
    Monday, July 23, 2007 3:29 PM
    Moderator
  •  Ken Warren wrote:
    SME, I don't recommend putting the system disk on a RAID array because I firmly believe there's a point of diminishing returns as far as the size of the system drive improving performance is concerned, and because restoring the system if a drive in the array fails seems to take just about as long as reinstalling WHS.

    If you have enough space on the primary data partition to copy several times the usual "single shot" data copy to WHS, and you have plenty of free space elsewhere, then there's no point in a larger system drive. For me (and I suspect for most people) that "sweet spot" is around 160 GB for the system drive. Having 120 GB or so above the OS partition seems to give me plenty of space. I'm not copying large numbers of DVD .isos, though, so I suppose the sweet spot for someone with a lot of media that they're working with constantly might be a bit higher. I'd be interested in some numbers, if you fall into that category; maybe your sweet spot is 250 GB, or 400, or more.

     

    (The MS forum ate my previous reply on FF whining about redirections, I'll be glad when the upgrades come.)

     

    It did take a long time to format the drive for installation and so did the resize but I've tested the array by unplugging a drive and letting it rebuild while WHS ran. I've not actually "tested" performance but it seems pretty peppy and happy. I have had the system drive report as unhealth a few times since the last MS updates but running repair or a reboot always fixes it.

     

    This I find intersting because everything I've read always says to use the largest drive as the system drive and this is the first I've hear of any "sweet spot." Since WHS lacks an in place non-destructive upgrade type install, I feel more comfortable with having the RAID5 array as the primary. As for my numbers I'm only running 310G (out of ~1T), mostly archived DVD, CD, recorded TV, photos, drivers for everything on the LAN, various freeware apps that I use, WHS backups and SW that I've bought over the years. The stock WHS box has ~200G out of 376G but it uses smaller PATA drives and is no longer used for backups.

     

     

    Monday, July 23, 2007 6:09 PM
  • The "sweet spot" isn't Microsoft canon, it's a personal theory, based on observation.

    Let's say you work with large amounts of data on a daily basis, to the tune of 20 GB or more a day. There's really no need for any part of WHS to be able to manage more than that amount of data in a single pop. If you can copy 20 GB to the server in one shot, and Drive Extender can move that data off to secondary drives in a timely fashion, then you're unlikely to ever need to worry if you keep 100 GB free in your D: partition.

    Where having more space available helps is in the initial loading of WHS. If you want to copy several hundred GB to the server in one shot, the larger your system drive is, the better. But then all that space sits unused afterward.

    Even backups shouldn't cause issues, because they get split up into multiple smaller (4 GB) files. DE has to handle them, but I believe a given file in the backup database is left idle once it's full, until the weekly backup cleanup on Sunday mornings. If so, a relatively small number of backup files will be "active" at any time, probably one file per machine for indexes and two or three backup database files.


    A system disk of 160 GB is perfectly adequate for my use of WHS. I've never come close to filling that up before DE gets a chance to migrate files off to secondary disks, and even backups of my own desktop PC, with a couple of hundred GB of data being backed up, never cause a hiccup.

    Your mileage will vary a bit, of course. Smile
    Monday, July 23, 2007 6:51 PM
    Moderator
  •  Ken Warren wrote:
    The "sweet spot" isn't Microsoft canon, it's a personal theory, based on observation.

    Where having more space available helps is in the initial loading of WHS. If you want to copy several hundred GB to the server in one shot, the larger your system drive is, the better. But then all that space sits unused afterward.

    Even backups shouldn't cause issues, because they get split up into multiple smaller (4 GB) files. DE has to handle them, but I believe a given file in the backup database is left idle once it's full, until the weekly backup cleanup on Sunday mornings. If so, a relatively small number of backup files will be "active" at any time, probably one file per machine for indexes and two or three backup database files.

    A system disk of 160 GB is perfectly adequate for my use of WHS. I've never come close to filling that up before DE gets a chance to migrate files off to secondary disks, and even backups of my own desktop PC, with a couple of hundred GB of data being backed up, never cause a hiccup.

    Your mileage will vary a bit, of course.

    I understand that it's just a personal theory, it's just that I've never heard such a theory before. As I've said, everything (prior) that I've read always suggests using the largest drive for the system drive.

     

    That space wouldn't be unused if replication is on with a 2 drive WHS system. Right?

     

    Backing up 10 complete computers with multiple large hard drives could add up to a lot of 4G files.

     

    I think I could get away with a smaller system disk (it'd still need to be resized though) too but all I had free to make a 4 drive array were the 250G SATA drives. Using 4 small Raptors might be faster and a better use of the space but we're not talking about a stock WHS for the average user either.

     

    For the targeted WHS users, RAID is overkill and too complicated to explain the differences in prices between a 1-4(8-25) drive system and why the available space is not all usable. That is also the beauty of DE which is one reason why I'd never use RAID on the data drives.

     

     

    Monday, July 23, 2007 7:18 PM
  •  SME wrote:
    I understand that it's just a personal theory, it's just that I've never heard such a theory before. As I've said, everything (prior) that I've read always suggests using the largest drive for the system drive.
    Yes, and that's the advice I will normally give, because most users don't currently have the plethora of drives that you and I do. Smile
     SME wrote:

    That space wouldn't be unused if replication is on with a 2 drive WHS system. Right?

    True, and good catch. I should have specified "assuming sufficient space in the storage pool to completely clear the D: partition."


    Monday, July 23, 2007 8:33 PM
    Moderator
  •  Ken Warren wrote:
     SME wrote:
    I understand that it's just a personal theory, it's just that I've never heard such a theory before. As I've said, everything (prior) that I've read always suggests using the largest drive for the system drive.
    Yes, and that's the advice I will normally give, because most users don't currently have the plethora of drives that you and I do.
     SME wrote:

    That space wouldn't be unused if replication is on with a 2 drive WHS system. Right?

    True, and good catch. I should have specified "assuming sufficient space in the storage pool to completely clear the D: partition."


     

    I'm glad I didn't use 4 1T drives for the array and I think the real magic of DE starts with the 3rd and subsequent drives. Certainly, you have a point, if the system drive is large enough, it really shouldn't have to be the largest, if you have many. On my next clean install I'm going to break the array and install on the resized 320G (40-100 for C) drive and add the 4 250G drives to the pool. To me, the 20G hard limit is a bigger, red flag, problem than WHS RAID support. YMMV.

    Monday, July 23, 2007 8:58 PM
  • Thank you very much for the assistance provided. Yours and other responses provided a detailed tutorial that certainly expanded my knowledge on the subject.

    Monday, July 23, 2007 9:25 PM
  •  Raid wrote:

    Thank you very much for the assistance provided. Yours and other responses provided a detailed tutorial that certainly expanded my knowledge on the subject.

     

    Glad it helped but, really, we just scratched the surface of the entire RAID debate. Wink

    Monday, July 23, 2007 9:37 PM
  •  Raid wrote:

    I’ve built a compliant box to host WHS whose main board (Intel) contains 8 SATA connectors in 2 sets of four.  The XP Pro OS is mounted on 2 striped disks (160 GB each) as one volume and 4 striped (don’t ask) (500 GB each) as another volume.

     

    WHS appears to prefer a single disk install vice a RAID volume install with additional disks as single volumes.  I envision that to accommodate the preference I will have to break both striped volumes which I think will leave me with an inoperable system until I reboot from XP CD in which case I will go for the clean install as there is no data on box.  I assume any necessary drivers for the RAID controllers (Intel and Silicon Image) will be available through the XP CD or I’ll have to provide manually.  Two small SATA drives and optical drives will go to one controller and the 4 larger drives will go to the other controller.  I foresee that after XP installs the drives it will install the OS on the volume I choose.  Hopefully, a successful install of XP will then allow me to install WHS.

     

    Any comments or holes in this scenario?

    Thursday, July 26, 2007 8:50 AM
  • That not totally correct.

    RAID never meant as protection when it made in the mid of 80's.

    Speed search, cost effected, and the most important, "uptime", well, from the name of it as you know:

    Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks then later they call it "Redundant Array of Independent Disks", so "redundant" from the start to  be able to be online as always as possible, well it mean for the servers side matters.

    Again, RAID level are not in "various arguments", it's in the cost efected that you welling to put, well, here a site (nice pic. of the level and high/low point for each level:

    http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00.html

    But for desktop and home servers, totally agree with you, RAID do help and protect in some way, but not to totally relay on it tho, consider I bought 2 disks from same brands, and to my bad luck, I use them both on the raid, and their life end, you consider the possiblty here, it happend, and happend a lots.

    In many years the true "various arguments" was on using either the same brand of all the hard disks in the array, or half of it from differnets brands.

    My best.
    Thursday, July 26, 2007 2:11 PM
  •  abobader wrote:
    That not totally correct.

    RAID never meant as protection when it made in the mid of 80's.

    Speed search, cost effected, and the most important, "uptime", well, from the name of it as you know:



    There you go making stuff up again.

    Allow me to use a source, more your speed:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

    computer storage, a Redundant Array of Independent Drives (or Disks), also known as Redundant Array of Inexpensive Drives (or Disks), (RAID) is an umbrella term for data storage schemes that divide and/or replicate data among multiple hard drives. RAID can be designed to provide increased data reliability and/or increased I/O performance.

    Norman Ken Ouchi at IBM was awarded a 1978 U.S. patent 4,092.732[1] titled "System for recovering data stored in failed memory unit." The claims for this patent describe what would later be termed RAID 5 with full stripe writes.



    Hope that helps...


    Thursday, July 26, 2007 5:21 PM
  • lol, sorry if I could not help myself laughing of that info.

    indeed no point of posting as long other can read the fact, after all, this is a tech. forum.

    My best.
    Thursday, July 26, 2007 5:29 PM
  •  abobader wrote:
    lol, sorry if I could not help myself laughing of that info.


    I feel the same way after reading half of your posts. If only you knew what you were talking about.

    Thursday, July 26, 2007 5:32 PM
  • Hi,

    I have been looking into getting a home server or NAS for quite some time now and this far WHS is closest to matching my needs. However, I am (to some extent) shocked that WHS neither supports RAID nor a standardized and wide spread file system (I am hopefully wrong regarding this). I love computers and spend most of my time using them in one way or another but I still don’t trust hard drives, mother boards, power supplies, or operating systems! They will all break given enough time! So my two main requirements on home server running quietly in a corner 24/7 for the next 5+ years are:

    1. Data redundancy (every bit mirrored). That is: When a disk breaks, I exchange it without losing neither data, software installations, nor configuration time.

    2. Data accessibility (every bit readable by a standard PC or other standardized tech). That is: When the hardware (other than the disks) goes down I can always plug the hard drives into a different system and retrieve/migrate all data without losses.

     

    Can this be achieved with WHS? If so: How? If not: why would anyone do this? I just want to be able to feel my data is secure and accessible no matter what. I truly hope I have missed something. Please enlighten me!

    Thursday, January 8, 2009 6:28 PM
  • You can't achieve both goals simultaneously, either with Windows Home Server or with RAID (at least not every implementation of RAID). With WHS you have data accessibility; every drive in the storage pool is formatted with the NTFS file system, so your files are accessible from any computer that can read that file system. You don't get every bit duplicated, though you do get every bit that really matters (your shares).

    With RAID you will get every bit duplicated, but you may not be able to read a drive from a RAID volume on another PC, even if the RAID level was 1. This comes down to how the RAID controller handles drives.

    In any case, you will be making a mistake if you rely on a single technology (WHS or RAID) for protecting your data. There are failure modes that can destroy your entire server (or even your entire home network) at one time. For full data security you will need a multi-layered backup plan. In my own case, that plan is in the form of WHS for central storage/data management, then external drives taken off-site regularly to back up the data on the server.

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    • Proposed as answer by -KMan- Friday, January 9, 2009 9:48 AM
    Thursday, January 8, 2009 9:15 PM
    Moderator
  • Excellent! That was almost exactly what I wanted to hear! Even though I still find it a mystery that you can’t back up every bit on WHS I might be fine with just securing my shares if I know those will also be readable in any normal PC.

    Just to clarify: If I have a WHS Setup consisting of 500GB + 3*1TB (as an example) where the OS resides in the 500GB drive, all my saved and duplicated data will be stored on two of the three 1TB drives right? And if the motherboard goes bad I will find my files on those drives when connected to a normal vista PC over SATA? In what order are the files stored? Are they randomly spread or will the first TB of duplicated data be located on the first two drives? Will the folder structure be intact? Can I affect how the data is spread? If all data is duplicated, does this mean I should have an even number of storage drives to make sure all drives are used optimally or does WHS balance it out anyway? In this scenario, will the three 1 TB drives be hot swappable considering the OS should be on the 500 GB drive and all data is duplicated? Does that mean I can exchange those disks for 2TB disks in the future if I upgrade them one at the times and let the duplication finish in between?

    Thanks again Ken for you answer. I do know this is not full protection of my data and I do make backups to a computer 500 miles from my home a few times a year, but that is only the priceless stuff and not on a daily basis.  

    Friday, January 9, 2009 9:47 AM
  • The Drive Extender technical brief gives some more detail about how DE distributes file shadows across the drives in your storage pool. Briefly, though, files will tend to go to the drive that has the least free space, as long as it has enough free space for the file. The second file shadow (for files in shares with duplication enabled) will go on a different drive, also a drive that's used, and that has enough space. This algorithm has the effect of keeping files that are stored together on the same disks. There is no way to control exactly how WHS distributes files, however.

    Drives in WHS are not hot swappable, in the sense that the system will recover seamlessly from the removal of a drive with no user intervention. If you simply pull a drive out of your server, you will be warned that a drive has gone missing, but you will have to take action to deal with the situation yourself. Also, physically your drives may not be hot swappable; that would be up to your HBA and drives.

    As for upgrading your disks, yes, you can upgrade disks in your server. You would remove the disk from the storage pool using the console, then uninstall the old disk, install the new one, and finally use the console to add it to the storage pool.

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    • Edited by Ken WarrenModerator Friday, January 9, 2009 1:03 PM link
    • Proposed as answer by -KMan- Friday, January 9, 2009 11:18 PM
    Friday, January 9, 2009 12:41 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi,
    Windows Home Server will use the DATA drives as needed. If at least Power Pack 1 is installed, it will try to keep the data partition as long free as possible. It will also try to keep the data together on one disk, and the duplicates on a second disk, as long as these disks are not nearly filled. (this can also lead to an idle empty drive for some time, if your WHS storage pool is overdimensioned for your current needs.
    You can attach the drives of a WHS to any Windows PC which can read NTFS and access the hidden folder DE to find a part or all of your shares and duplicates.
    To swap disks against new drives, it depends from the current free space, which method is better. You could add the new drive first to the pool and then remove the old disk via console (which will relocate data as necessary) or you remove the disk first via console, if there is enough space. 
    If there is still plenty of free space, the sequence doesn't matter.
    Best greetings from Germany
    Olaf
    Friday, January 9, 2009 12:44 PM
    Moderator
  • Wow, you are fast! Was just about to post a few answers on my own questions. I found the technical brief and is halfway through it. Thanks anyway guys! Your posts are really helping, eventhough I don't agree with all design choices of WHS. I'm sure I will be back with more questions though :-)
    Friday, January 9, 2009 11:24 PM
  • Ken Warren said:

    You can't achieve both goals simultaneously, either with Windows Home Server or with RAID (at least not every implementation of RAID). With WHS you have data accessibility; every drive in the storage pool is formatted with the NTFS file system, so your files are accessible from any computer that can read that file system. You don't get every bit duplicated, though you do get every bit that really matters (your shares).


    With RAID you will get every bit duplicated, but you may not be able to read a drive from a RAID volume on another PC, even if the RAID level was 1. This comes down to how the RAID controller handles drives.

    In any case, you will be making a mistake if you rely on a single technology (WHS or RAID) for protecting your data. There are failure modes that can destroy your entire server (or even your entire home network) at one time. For full data security you will need a multi-layered backup plan. In my own case, that plan is in the form of WHS for central storage/data management, then external drives taken off-site regularly to back up the data on the server.

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)


    Hi Ken, I am just curious as to what your preference is on this topic.  I may have missed it but figure I would like to know anyways. 
    My question to you is, do you currently have your WHS setup using just DE and a offsite back up of your data or do you have a form a RAID on your server with a offsite backup or a combination?  I have a WHS setup and so far love the advantages to having it but I've found myself sitting between a rock and a hard case when it comes to raid and DE.  I keep (at least for the moment) a Raid 1 of dual WD 640gb drives which contains 90% of my shares. They are unmanaged by the server other than to make shares live to the network, my system drive is a 160gb seagate with a 250 gb western digital on the data pool.  (My 640s are not part of the pool.)  I feel that the raid 1 while it provides good redundency it is in some ways a waste of a good drive.  Not to mention should my data become corrupted its as good as corrupted on the mirrored drive too!  Guess I'm screwed either way.  My reasoning is it worth it to break the array and rely on the DE?  Like you I keep my data backed up on a external drive which I update quarterly just for peice of mind.  I know about the shadow copies that DE has but is that only if you have duplication enabled?  Secondly if so, does duplication work on a share that is not originated by the server itself? 
    Saturday, January 31, 2009 6:18 AM
  • I use Drive Extender. Either DE or RAID would require an off-site backup for security, and RAID is not a supported scenario for all the reasons that have been stated (by myself and many others) over a couple of years here in the forums.
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:00 PM
    Moderator
  • Thank you Ken.  Does the DE automatically shadow copy data or is that only when shares are set to duplicate?
    Saturday, January 31, 2009 9:36 PM
  • Only shared folders set to Duplicate are mirrored to a second disk.
    Best greeetings from Germany
    Olaf
    Saturday, January 31, 2009 10:31 PM
    Moderator
  • Thank you Olaf.  Can you enable duplication on shares other than the ones preset by the server?  
    Sunday, February 1, 2009 4:47 AM
  • Rather than go back and forth a few dozen times :), I'm going to suggest you read some/all of the documentation you'll find on the Windows Home Server Help and Support page.

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Sunday, February 1, 2009 5:56 AM
    Moderator
  • Ive found it best to go with raid 0+1 if your mobo can support it
    Speed Reliability & recovery. With this method you can sustain a harddrive failure (which is almost garunteed to happen in any event) you get the speed of all of your disk You loose just as much space as you would with duplication.

    however you dont have msft'a support... :(

    Friday, February 6, 2009 8:52 PM
  • -KMan- said:

    Wow, you are fast! Was just about to post a few answers on my own questions. I found the technical brief and is halfway through it. Thanks anyway guys! Your posts are really helping, eventhough I don't agree with all design choices of WHS. I'm sure I will be back with more questions though :-)



    Understand the demographic that MS was looking for when the WHS idea was born. This isn't for a business or the hardcore techie. The idea is to have a "HOME" server so the somewhat tech savvy consumer can have one central place to store data with a bit more functionality then a typical NAS and much less cost. WHS allows you to port old hardware in many cases thereby lowering the initial cost. As big drives really come down in price it makes the WHS product look better and better, and also grow larger and larger.

    Keep in mind, WHS isn't the only solution available so I don't expect it to be the "perfect" choice, but it is a real good choice because it offers some key features I like:

    Duplication of data.
    10 user licenses for the console portion.
    Access my shared data over a web browser.
    A good amount of control over shares and folders.
    The ability to swap or add drives as my budget allows.
    PACS Technical Support Engineer
    Saturday, February 7, 2009 7:35 PM