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Selecting "Proposed as Answer" threads includes Answered threads RRS feed

  • Question

  •  When I select "Proposed as Answer" threads, I want to see a list of those ONLY so I can go to them and decide whether to Up them to Answered status or not.

    What I am getting when I select "Proposed as Answer" threads is a very long list.

    The reason it is long is that 95% of the entries are NOT "Proposed as Answer" threads at all, but are "Answered" threads (that include no "Proposed as Answer" post even for the most part).

    Upping a post to Answered status doesn't therefore have the desired impact of reducing the size of the List of Proposed as Answer posts but just increases the % of posts in that list that are off-topic!

    If you are to have a "Proposed as Answer" threads option it MUST show only "Proposed as Answer" posts.
     
    WSS FAQ sites: WSS 2.0: http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007: http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com
    Total list of WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007 Books (including foreign language titles) http://wss.asaris.de/sites/walsh/Lists/WSSv3%20FAQ/V%20Books.aspx
    Friday, February 6, 2009 6:15 AM

Answers

  • The original bug repoorted in this thread looks to have been fixed. Would you agree?
    Matt Fraser, STO Forums Software Developer
    • Marked as answer by mattfras1 Friday, April 24, 2009 8:59 PM
    Friday, April 24, 2009 5:40 PM

All replies

  • Mike:

    Yes, of course you are right. I noticed this long ago. But since I refuse to have anything to do with this worthless feature, it doesn't bother me too much.

    [I do see that Propose as Answer can have some utility for moderators, but I do not see that this justifies its general counter-productiveness.]

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP
    Friday, February 6, 2009 2:09 PM
  • Mike, that makes sense to me. The reason it works the way it does is mainly a DB implementation detail (that you shouldn't have to worry about). It should be simple enough to chage the page logic from (HasProposedAnswer) to (HasProposedAnswer && !IsAnswered).
    Matt Fraser, STO Forums Software Developer
    Friday, February 6, 2009 10:17 PM
  • Thanks Matt.

    If you can make such a change it would save a lot of (Moderation) time.

    Oddly, as I wrote, some of these threads don't now include any post that is marked "Propose as Answer" so your present logic must be including all those that *once-upon-a-time* had this marking but don't now. 

    WSS FAQ sites: WSS 2.0: http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007: http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com
    Total list of WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007 Books (including foreign language titles) http://wss.asaris.de/sites/walsh/Lists/WSSv3%20FAQ/V%20Books.aspx
    Saturday, February 7, 2009 5:12 AM
  • Matt:

    I know this is a hobby-horse of mine, but are we going to at least get rid of self-propose? Right now, I would say that the great majority of uses of the Propose feature are self-propose, and this is generally a contra-indicator of quality of the response. So the feature just creates noise.

    If we got rid of self-propose, then I think some people would take the feature more seriously, and it could (with Mike's suggested modification) be quite useful for moderators.

    However, I still find that getting one of your responses proposed as answer is the kiss of death as far as getting the OP to mark as answer, because they see the credit issue as already taken care of. For this reason I would prefer just to get rid of the whole thing. I also think that getting rid of propose as answer would encourage the use of Vote as helpful, a more meaningful feature, IMHO.

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP
    Saturday, February 7, 2009 12:54 PM
  • Mike Walsh MVP said:

    Oddly, as I wrote, some of these threads don't now include any post that is marked "Propose as Answer" so your present logic must be including all those that *once-upon-a-time* had this marking but don't now. 

     

    You're correct. To simplify, these flags use different fields, but we only ever show "Answered" if they're both set. So, we're likely just doesn't a simplistic query for whether the Proposed flag is set, not taking into account where Answered is also set with this filter.

    davewilk said:

    I know this is a hobby-horse of mine, but are we going to at least get rid of self-propose? Right now, I would say that the great majority of uses of the Propose feature are self-propose, and this is generally a contra-indicator of quality of the response. So the feature just creates noise.


    My gut tends to agree with you, but I'm in the process of actually writing some queries to mine the data so that I can present it and some decisions can be made around the feature...

    Matt



    Matt Fraser, STO Forums Software Developer
    Saturday, February 7, 2009 11:06 PM
  • David

    > I know this is a hobby-horse of mine, but are we going to at least get rid of self-propose? Right now, I would say that the great
    > majority of uses of the Propose feature are self-propose, and this is generally a contra-indicator of quality of the response. So the >feature just creates noise.

    I am all for removing self-propose.

    In a recent blog I detail what I do in "my" forums with the "Propose as Answer" posts. Step 1 is to remove a "Propose as Answer" if it was a self-propose. (Step 2 upgrades "Propose as Answers" from known trustworthy third-parties)

    > I still find that getting one of your responses proposed as answer is the kiss of death as far as getting the OP to mark as answer

    I don't think that OPs are any less likely to mark a post as an Answer just because the "Propose as Answer" function exists. They won't mark it as Answer if it is already marked as "Proposed as Answer" true but that marking is a sign that the Moderator should look at the post - something that the original request in this thread and removing self-proposing would make a quick, straightforward job - and so it WILL get upped to Answer status if it deserves to be.


    1:1

    Matt:

    > My gut tends to agree with you, but I'm in the process of actually writing some queries to mine the data so that I can present it and some decisions can be made around the feature...

    The difference is that generally if a post is marked as propose as answer by a third-party (especially by a "known, trustworthy" third-party) then it usually is an answer.

    Self-marked posts sometimes are; sometime aren't. The moderators job is because of this made impossible especially in those specialist areas where he/she might not be able to judge some answers but where he/she is the only moderator. I have just made a special request in one such special area (sticky post) for third-parties to mark posts that really contain answers to give me a helping hand- something that has met with a reply expressing approval of that request. But self-marking still wouldn't help me even there because the "quality" requirement sinks to a low or lower level when own points are at stake.




    Mike

     

     


    WSS FAQ sites: WSS 2.0: http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007: http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com
    Total list of WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007 Books (including foreign language titles) http://wss.asaris.de/sites/walsh/Lists/WSSv3 FAQ/V Books.aspx
    Sunday, February 8, 2009 8:14 AM
  • P.S. While we are at it, could we please have a way for Moderators to remove a "Helpful" marking.

    I've just seen a post consisting entirely of this (from the OP)

     
    "Thank you for clarifying this to me. I did more research on the webparts and in the end our company decided to enable the MySite feature to allow user to modify their own information."


    marked as Helpful.


    and it's not the first one that has been marked incorrectly as Helpful.
    WSS FAQ sites: WSS 2.0: http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007: http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com
    Total list of WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007 Books (including foreign language titles) http://wss.asaris.de/sites/walsh/Lists/WSSv3%20FAQ/V%20Books.aspx
    Sunday, February 8, 2009 9:27 AM
  • Mike:

    Well, if the propose feature worked as you suggest it would be hugely better than it is now.

    However, I think that Vote as Helpful could perform much the same role. I understand that a helpful post is not necessarily the answer, but it often is. One current problem with Vote as Helpful is that (I think) posts only appear in the helpful filter after they have received some number N of helpful votes. I'm not sure what N is, but I think it should be 1.


    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP
    Sunday, February 8, 2009 12:43 PM
  • I think they might have changed it (Helpful marking).

    I'm seeing Helpful (1) in some forums. Presumably this isn't 100 !

    Mike

    To be clear. I'm not objecting to Helpful. I think it's very useful. The combination of Helpful and Propose as Answer for instance is usually a good indication of the quality of a post. But I don't want Helpful to be a one-way street.

    I just removed an "Answer" marking (done by the OP) where the post that was so marked had a single sentence and that asked for more information and nothing more.

    I would like to be able to do the same thing for posts marked Helpful that clearly aren't. (My example wasn't so great - there are some that are even more clearly not Helpful; some people seem to click somewhat wildly _) 

    WSS FAQ sites: WSS 2.0: http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007: http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com
    Total list of WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007 Books (including foreign language titles) http://wss.asaris.de/sites/walsh/Lists/WSSv3%20FAQ/V%20Books.aspx
    Sunday, February 8, 2009 4:56 PM
  • Mike Walsh MVP said:

    The difference is that generally if a post is marked as propose as answer by a third-party (especially by a "known, trustworthy" third-party) then it usually is an answer.

    Self-marked posts sometimes are; sometime aren't. The moderators job is because of this made impossible especially in those specialist areas where he/she might not be able to judge some answers but where he/she is the only moderator. I have just made a special request in one such special area (sticky post) for third-parties to mark posts that really contain answers to give me a helping hand- something that has met with a reply expressing approval of that request. But self-marking still wouldn't help me even there because the "quality" requirement sinks to a low or lower level when own points are at stake.

    Yup, I understand. I'm trying to dig in and see #s on self-proposes, and to see what the difference in answer conversions is...



    davewilk said:

    I understand that a helpful post is not necessarily the answer, but it often is. One current problem with Vote as Helpful is that (I think) posts only appear in the helpful filter after they have received some number N of helpful votes. I'm not sure what N is, but I think it should be 1.


    Mike Walsh MVP said:

    I think they might have changed it (Helpful marking).


    I'm seeing Helpful (1) in some forums. Presumably this isn't 100 !

    Mike


    To be clear. I'm not objecting to Helpful. I think it's very useful. The combination of Helpful and Propose as Answer for instance is usually a good indication of the quality of a post. But I don't want Helpful to be a one-way street.

    I just removed an "Answer" marking (done by the OP) where the post that was so marked had a single sentence and that asked for more information and nothing more.

    I would like to be able to do the same thing for posts marked Helpful that clearly aren't. (My example wasn't so great - there are some that are even more clearly not Helpful; some people seem to click somewhat wildly _) 


    Helpful: a post will show as being helpful within a thread with 1 vote. A thread will be marked helpful (and thus, be filterable) when a post receives 5 helpful votes.

    At one point, we had "not helpful" as well, but found that the interface was too crowded and people aweren't using it. We're thinking about bringing it back with the interface updates, possibly with a Digg-style +/- or a thumb up/thumb down. What do you think?

    Matt
    Matt Fraser, STO Forums Software Developer
    Monday, February 9, 2009 2:40 AM
  • Matt:

    What I am suggesting is that N should be 1 for filtering also. Right now (at least in the Visual C++ forums that I use), the only threads that filter as Helpful are very old posts with thousands of viewings.

    Since I was the one who pressured for the removal of Vote as Unhelpful, I am very opposed to reintroducing it. What we need is simple, bug-free forums, not bells and whistles.

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP
    Monday, February 9, 2009 3:08 AM
  • davewilk said:

    Matt:

    What I am suggesting is that N should be 1 for filtering also. Right now (at least in the Visual C++ forums that I use), the only threads that filter as Helpful are very old posts with thousands of viewings.

    Since I was the one who pressured for the removal of Vote as Unhelpful, I am very opposed to reintroducing it. What we need is simple, bug-free forums, not bells and whistles.


    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP



    The problem here is that "helpful" isn't meant to be a yes/no sort of thing. It's meant to be voted on by the community. Once "Answer" is set, that's it. But "helpful" can and should be reinforced by several people. A post isn't helpful just because one random member of the community thinks it is. It takes several people to agree on it. With this in mind, "removing helpful" isn't logical. The logical thing to go with "vote helpful" is "vote not helpful" as a balance.

    Honestly, if we keep the helpful feature, then I think it need the balance, but with a new UI treatment to make it a) more obvious and b) differentiated from "Answer". A post can be helpful, even if it's not the answer to a question.

    Matt
    Matt Fraser, STO Forums Software Developer
    Monday, February 9, 2009 5:08 AM
  • Quick update here. The orignal problem ("answered" threads are showing up whan you select the "proposed answers" filter) will be fixed in our March release.
    Matt Fraser, STO Forums Software Developer
    Monday, February 23, 2009 4:56 PM
  • Great.

    Very useful.

    Thanks, Matt.

    ------------------------------------

    Now to get User Threads to provide up-to-date information. I have yet another spammer driving me mad with pseudo posts all of which by a strange coincidence plug a product from the same company. With up-to-date user threads I can get rid of his posts almost at once if I'm on line.

    WSS FAQ sites: WSS 2.0: http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007: http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com
    Total list of WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007 Books (including foreign language titles) http://wss.asaris.de/sites/walsh/Lists/WSSv3%20FAQ/V%20Books.aspx
    Tuesday, February 24, 2009 7:18 AM
  • The original bug repoorted in this thread looks to have been fixed. Would you agree?
    Matt Fraser, STO Forums Software Developer
    • Marked as answer by mattfras1 Friday, April 24, 2009 8:59 PM
    Friday, April 24, 2009 5:40 PM
  • Certainly all the ones listed are all only listed with the icon for proposed as answer (and there are far fewer than there were before), so I think it's safe to say that this has been cleared up (and I can use it again!).

    Mike

    Later: There is still a problem, however. The list of Proposed as Answer threads includes this one 

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/sharepointgeneral/thread/db24600e-6c3f-4c6e-9771-8d2f20f2b3b6

    which has none of the posts proposed.

    Could it be because it was moved ?

    WSS FAQ sites: WSS 2.0: http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007: http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com
    Total list of WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007 Books (including foreign language titles) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/Lists/v3%20WSS%20FAQ/V%20Books.aspx
    Friday, April 24, 2009 6:24 PM
  • Later: There is still a problem, however. The list of Proposed as Answer threads includes this one 

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/sharepointgeneral/thread/db24600e-6c3f-4c6e-9771-8d2f20f2b3b6

    which has none of the posts proposed.
    I would say it's related to this other but (with answered) I'm looking into:

    http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/suggest/thread/f0151984-49b8-4598-a22a-dd4d5b810013/

    Looks like we're just not unmarking the thread when we inmark an answer/proposed answer
    Matt Fraser, STO Forums Software Developer
    Friday, April 24, 2009 8:59 PM