none
Can we have our TechNet font back please RRS feed

  • Question

  • It had to happen I suppose. Sometime in the past ten hours TechNet forums have changed to the absolutely terrible font that has been used for MSDN forums for some time.

    In order to be able to use the forums (and especially in order to be able to clearly see the difference between a read and an unread thread), I need to increase the size of the font on all pages.  Even then the font is a pain to use.

    Please give us our solid TechNet font back and leave the "sexy but useless" font to the MSDN people who clearly don't know any better.


    Mike Walsh

    It's not even any good (un-zoomed) in IE !


    FAQ sites: (SP 2010) http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com; (v3) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com and (WSS 2.0) http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com
    Complete Book Lists (incl. foreign language) on each site.
    Wednesday, March 3, 2010 4:21 AM

Answers

All replies

  • I will join Mike as it is really hard to differentiate Bold from Regular and even the characters themselves are not clear either...
    Please think about the technicians who have to read a lot of threads daily, don't think about the design only...

    Dom
    System Center Operations Manager 2007 / System Center Configuration Manager 2007 R2 Support
    Wednesday, March 3, 2010 4:40 AM
  • I must admit, too, that the font looks better but is harder to read. In addition, the line pitch is too narrow for a font of this height, ascending and descending letters are often touching each other.
    "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers.” (Thomas J. Watson, Sr.)
    Wednesday, March 3, 2010 8:55 AM
  • Thanks for the feedback on the fonts, I was wondering what you all thought. I like it but I can certainly understand how it is difficult for some to read.
    Community Forums Program Manager
    Thursday, March 4, 2010 5:42 AM
    Answerer
  • Hi

    I like the new font and forum interface.

    The only thing that is a bit disconcerting is that when composing or replying to a message, the font appears to be smaller in the compose window than it is after you submit the post.

    I use IE8. Here is an example.



    Regards,


    Ronnie Vernon MVP
    Thursday, March 4, 2010 8:09 AM
  • Hi Dabur

    This doesn't seem to have any effect, other than making everything larger in both boxes as displayed in the image I posted?

    The text in the compose window is still smaller than it is in the message window that I am replying to.

    Thanks,


    Ronnie Vernon MVP
    Thursday, March 4, 2010 10:18 AM
  • > I can certainly understand how it is difficult for some to read.


    Brent,

    If you want to really appreciate how difficult it is to read, look at using it on a 13.3" screen or less.

    Lot's of the non-MS people supporting the forums do it in their own time and if on the road they'll be using small notebooks or even smaller net books.

    I remember when MSDN changed to this font I was unable to do any forum support on a 13.3 inch MacBook using Safari. It was squint; squint; squint just trying to identify which posts were bold (unread) and which not. As reading all the unread (by me) threads (i.e. the bold ones) is the way I moderate forums that wasn't good. I hate to think what it would be like on a 10.1 inch Netbook which is what I would be using if I ever decided to take a computer on holiday with me.


    On a very large (square not wide-screen) "professional-level" HP screen it's actually quite a pleasant experience (much less on a cheaper 22-inch wide screen btw unless I go to Large for those pages), but you can hardly carry such a screen around with you. Even when at home I even have a portable on my lap rather than sit at a desk with that screen.


    Meanwhile MS official support (being paid and) working in Offices will of course have such screens so don't expect *them* to complain.


    Mike


    FAQ sites: (SP 2010) http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com; (v3) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com and (WSS 2.0) http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com
    Complete Book Lists (incl. foreign language) on each site.
    Thursday, March 4, 2010 10:35 AM
  • As I already posted in : http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/tnfeedback/thread/8a22bce1-3184-449b-8666-2d9a19abbddf#686a7705-f12a-4fc7-91be-75a5dd1cf977

    I so much don't like it. There used to be a rule saying something like "it's not broken, don't mend it."
    Does apply here I'd say.

    The overall feeling is 'cheap'. This might be different for the webdesigners who obviously have (at least) 25 inch screens. Ordinary mortals (people who buy their own screens) do not always have access to that kind of display. I suppose it will amaze some of the players around, but some people actually work with 17 inch screens.

    I don't think the font is nicer, because everything that hampers readability can't be nice.

    Just an idea, give us the possibility to skin the site the way we want to by choosing a predefined Technet skin.

    Anyway that's just my tuppence...

    Rem

    Thursday, March 4, 2010 11:39 AM
  • The following  image was just taken from the screen of my 15.6 inch screen. Win7 / IE8 with the size of the page at normal settings.

    http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/Shared%20Documents/WhichIsBold.jpg

    I had to concentrate hard to see that one of the three items was bold (unread) and I really only was certain when I also saw that it was a so recent post that I hadn't had a computer open in the time.

    This isn't good enough. If it's as bad as that on a late 2009 portable with that size of screen and a good graphics card, what can you expect from smaller screens and built-in graphics ?


    Mike Walsh

    Later: The only workaround I can think of if TechNet as a whole won't change is that the forum software not only makes the Title of a post Bold but also increases the font size. Then with both Bold and a large font size combined it might be possible to distinguish the all-important Unread threads from the rest. 

    FAQ sites: (SP 2010) http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com; (v3) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com and (WSS 2.0) http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com
    Complete Book Lists (incl. foreign language) on each site.
    • Edited by Mike Walsh FIN Thursday, March 4, 2010 3:21 PM Later: para added
    Thursday, March 4, 2010 3:08 PM
  • Well that's it. The difference on this screen is so minute that I am giving up for the evening and waiting until tomorrow morning when I have an external and large screen where the difference is at least just visible.


    So far the sole advantage of this new font is that I can now spend my evenings doing something else, because getting up-to-date (i.e. reading all threads I haven't yet read) is impossible on this notebook.

    So a 12-14 hour break between Moderation rather than an 8 hour one.


    Mike Walsh


    FAQ sites: (SP 2010) http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com; (v3) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com and (WSS 2.0) http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com
    Complete Book Lists (incl. foreign language) on each site.
    Thursday, March 4, 2010 5:26 PM
  • You don't need to understand the following text (look at it like blindtext, "lorum ipsum..."). But those posts without any paragraphs are rather frequent. Can you read that without becoming blurred?

    Hola. Resulta que un dia estaba jugando al juego Resident Evil 5 y se tranco de repente. Intente alt+F4 , Administrador de tareas e incluso el boton de suspension del teclado pero no respondia asi que apague el PC manualmente. Luego de esto el ATI Catalyst control center no cargo mas, decia que no se podia ejecutar el MOM.exe. Mirando por internet decia que era el Microsoft NET Framework, asi que instale el 3.5 pero no hubo caso. Intente obviamente reinstalar drivers, incluso a unos mas viejos y nada daba efecto. Luego se me ocurrio ir al Visor de eventos para ver los errores exactamente y cuando daba click derecho/Administrar a Equipo no abria el Administrador, me saltaba un error de MMC.exe y no iniciaba nada. Asi que pense que era un virus y no tuve opcion asi que formatie la particion donde estaba Windows 7 y lo volvi a instalar. Luego de eso todo parecia marchar bien y cuando entre de nuevo al Resident Evil 5 se tranco de nuevo y me salto al escritorio con un error de un archivo del juego y en eso salto la famosa "Blue Screen", pantallazo de la muerte. Luego cuando inicio windows queria entrar a mis discos en Equipo y el explorador de windows se reiniciaba; pasaba lo mismo cuando queria buscar algo desde inicio: el explorador se reiniciaba y ademas el CCC ya no iniciaba mas tampoco (me decia que no tenia controladores de graficos). Asi que formatie de nuevo y ahora nuevamente me han surgido problemas. Pensando que era el Resident Evil 5 el problema o el Catalys Control Center, no los instale. Solo instale el Display Driver y el Aliens vs Predator. Cuando jugaba al AvP salto otro error de Aplicacion, es decir del mismo juego y dije: "aca esta pasando algo" y al entrar al firefox no me dejaba pero con un reinicio ya me dejo. No se como era posible que sigan los errores si habia formateado ya dos veces! Intente actualizar y buscar todas las actualizaciones disponibles y ahora hay errores para actualizar. Error 80070246.

    I can't. The only way is reading it word by word and remember that at the next line. Please repair this. Forums like the MS Answers MSE Forums still have the old look, and you can read the post wayyy faster.
    "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers.” (Thomas J. Watson, Sr.)
    Thursday, March 4, 2010 9:06 PM
  • Hi Brent

    I must agree with everything being posted here.

    I'm now seeing results that just plain look bad. If I type text in a reply, and then paste a line of text, from Notepad with no formatting, when I click the Submit button i get a post with 2 different font sizes?

    Like Mike stated, this will slow things down to an unacceptable level.

    Thanks,

    Edit: Take a look at the 4th post in the following thread for another example.

    Win 7: My Taskbar is stuck in the middle of screen



    Ronnie Vernon MVP
    Thursday, March 4, 2010 9:18 PM
  •  But those posts without any paragraphs are rather frequent.

    While I am happy to get support for changing the font back, I'm not 100% convinced this 'post without paragraph' has anything to do with the font change.

    I've seen them before the font change (not often but often enough) and they were caused by the tools or browsers that people were using to post their messages to a forum. (I have a feeling there is a particular version of Firefox that got rid of all line feeds in people's posts but it might have been some other browser).


    [Meanwhile I'm back at a 22 wide screen and the difference between a bold and a non-bold post is clear enough (as it was on a much more expensive non-wide - thus bigger! - 20inch screen). But the 15.6 inch with a glossy screen really did make it virtually impossible to tell the difference in color and although I've not checked it with TechNet, on my MacBook's more matt 13.3 inch screen MSDN forums were equally difficult.]

    FAQ sites: (SP 2010) http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com; (v3) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com and (WSS 2.0) http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com
    Complete Book Lists (incl. foreign language) on each site.
    Friday, March 5, 2010 4:55 AM
  •  But those posts without any paragraphs are rather frequent.

    While I am happy to get support for changing the font back, I'm not 100% convinced this 'post without paragraph' has anything to do with the font change.
    I'm not with you on this one. Readability is linked to both font and paragraph setup. Whereas the old font maintained this readability even though the poster was a noob at writing, the new font no longer allows this.

    As I said earlier, the webdesigners must have those big fancy high-end screens you're using now. Well, I don't.
    And I'm certainly not going to buy one just for the readability of TechNet's sake.

    Although I know that website are continually in progress, are being improved, enriched in functionality etc... I wonder who asked for the change in layout over here.

    Regards

    Rem
    Friday, March 5, 2010 7:11 AM
  • Just trying something,

    This font is better for quick reading on ordinary screens. You'll have to open the html editor for each post though.


    Rem
    Friday, March 5, 2010 7:19 AM
  • In order to be able to use the forums (and especially in order to be able to clearly see the difference between a read and an unread thread), I need to increase the size of the font on all pages.  Even then the font is a pain to use.

    I think you might be imagining a difference anyway because frequently the only way to tell that there is unread material in a thread is by the timestamp of the last post.   The whole feature is extremely unreliable and unusable IMO.   Much easier to get caught up using the bridge (provided the bridge and WLMail in tandem don't delete my subscriptions but that's another issue.)


    Robert
    ---
    Friday, March 5, 2010 3:43 PM
  • >I think you might be imagining a difference anyway because frequently the only way to tell that there is >unread material in a thread is by the timestamp of the last post. 


    Certainly now with the new font that is the only way with small screens.

    I had breakfast and as usual on Saturdays then went back to bed to use a MacBook (matt 13.3) to go through the forums.

    The only way to spot new posts (apart from looking at timestamps!) was to go down the list until there was a non-italic font and then tilt the screen backwards and forwards until it reached the exact location where you could just see that a post was very slightly darker than the next.

    Luckily on Saturday and Sunday mornings there aren't that many new posts, but you still have to find them.

    FAQ sites: (SP 2010) http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com; (v3) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com and (WSS 2.0) http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com
    Complete Book Lists (incl. foreign language) on each site.
    Saturday, March 6, 2010 5:53 AM
  • How are the font size's for TechNet after the 3/18 release? I know we've made some font size fixes for Forums in general. Did the latest update helped readability for the list of Threads? (read (unbold) and unread (bold))

    Thanks.


    Forums Test Lead
    Friday, March 19, 2010 4:04 PM
  • The fonts used in the posts are much better, now. Despite of being smaller, they are more readable. I didn't notice any changes in the thread lists, however (on a laptop). The difference of regular and bold seems, like before, a question of a) good sight and b) big screens.
    "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers.” (Thomas J. Watson, Sr.)
    Friday, March 19, 2010 6:30 PM
  • Hi Don

    The 3/18 update solved the problem that I described in my previous message here.

    Thank You,


    Ronnie Vernon MVP
    Friday, March 19, 2010 6:45 PM
  • fare better now thanks

    Dom


    System Center Operations Manager 2007 / System Center Configuration Manager 2007 R2 Support
    Friday, March 19, 2010 6:57 PM
  • > The difference of regular and bold seems, like before, a question of a) good sight and b) big screens.

    I agree with that assessment.

    I have noticed no difference when using either of my usual portables compared with before - in fact I didn't know there was an upgrade (which proves it).

     


    FAQ sites: (SP 2010) http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com; (v3) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com and (WSS 2.0) http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com
    Complete Book Lists (incl. foreign language) on each site.
    Friday, March 19, 2010 8:43 PM
  • I have noticed no difference when using either of my usual portables compared with before - in fact I didn't know there was an upgrade (which proves it).

     

    FWIW I think it is a bit better bold too.  However, I notice you could still use a workaround such as was discussed in your other thread, to customize the CSS more to your liking.   E.g. if the washed out blue color is the problem you could try red instead.   So far I have only worked out how to change it using the Developer Tools (instead of e.g., by a JavaScript fragment) but it's pretty easy:

    1. F12
    2. Ctrl-b
    3. Switch to the forum window and click on an unread thread listing
    4. Switch back to the Developer Tools
    5. Click on Trace Styles
    6. Expand Color:
    7. Overtype Color: red (or whatever you would prefer)

    Note that the original color from the MasterPage.css  was overridden somehow (perhaps making more washed out color instead of plainer easier to see color? <eg>).  Making the color that value  #0000ff  also seemed to help when I tried that before the latest update and it still does somehow make bold look "bolder" IMO.

    There's probably something you could do in the CSS tab to the .bold attribute (currently just font-weight: bold) but I don't know enough about it to say what you could change it to, probably just right-click and Add Attribute intelligently.  ; )


    Good luck

    Robert
    ---

    Friday, March 19, 2010 10:03 PM