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WGA not being Forth Coming or Answering my Questions RRS feed

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    Repeatedly,

      I have submitted questions to Microsoft via their contact tools and have received nothing back from them except boiler plate responses suggesting I visit and use the WGA diagnostic tool to help determine what my problem is using WGA.

      When you ask specific questions and get no relevent reply, what is the use of the tool any way?

      Here's the deal. I do not want to install the WGA validation tool until I have assurances from Microsoft that my machine will not become a Nag box. It's already been determined that once your machine has been branded with the WGA Validation tool it can not be removed.

      Microsoft further does not provide explicit proof that they do not collect PII (Personally Identifiable Information). They explain that their process has been reviewed by a certified and experienced German Computer Security Company, who's page when you first go to it is in German. You get past that by locating the English version. Then there's the problem of actually finding the 'Methodology' used to ensure that Microsoft doesn't collect PII.

     If I could get written statements saying what all the various Windows Genuine Advantage software are and what they do. As it seems there are several different components to this software designed to enhance my Windows Experience. I feel sure I would be more at ease with joining the Windows Genuine Advantage people.

     I bought my HP computer from Circuit City unboxed. Meaning someone had used it before me. I have no problem if there were a software that would check my machine but not install itself permanently to repeatedly complain 'I'm not Genuine' I paid the price for my computer. I do not want some company ruining my 'Windows Experience' because they decide to corrupt my computer with their Marketing software.

     In my previous contacts with Microsoft I have asked, what happens if I replace my harddrive since WGA records it's serial number. If I have a crash, want a larger drive, decide it's too slow or that the sky should be pink. I don't want to suddenly end up with a non-genuine computer. Disaster hits and my intel processor dies and has to be replaced, or the motherboard ends up with bad capacitors and as to be replaced?

     Microsoft has gone to great lengths to put positive spin on this great Windows Genuine Advantage campaign. Making people see the advantages of it all, luring them with new softwares and 'Gasp' the chance to actually patch your system if someone finds a remote exploit. But they have done little to really define, detail and explain all the different softwares? For all I know the one piece of software I'm refusing to let Windows update install, may not be the Windows Genuine Advantage Notifications thing and I don't have to worry about microsoft adding one more Pop-up notice window to my computer complaining that I'm running my computer not in the same way Microsoft feels I should run it.  

     That Microsoft states clearly that they do not collect any Personally Identifiable Information (PII) after explaining they record hard drive serial numbers, bios check sums and versions, and IP addresses. It doesn't really say specifically what it does not record. And that it updates itself dynamically through your internet connection at Microsoft's whim is I think the most egregious self serving operation of a 'Proven Monopolistic Company'. Not only do they not tell people what will cause their machines to become non-genuine, they do not tell people what is not collected, they do not tell people that their IP address is logged and not the MAC address of their ethernet adapter. Etc.

     What's more, what happens if Microsoft Marketing decides they want or need a little more information? Thankfully everyone who's run WGA is infected with a great marketing remote control letting them collect whatever information they want. They specifically say that the WGA is/will be updated and that the Privacy policy they use can and will be updated as they see fit.

      Please Microsoft, if you want me to believe in you, have faith that you mean no harm, State what you do not collect and what you will not collect and what will cause a violation of your 'Purity' test.

     

    Thanks.

    Thursday, July 27, 2006 2:21 PM

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     Davon Shire wrote:

    Oh my gawd Phil, probably the very best reply so far.

    Thanks! I do enjoy trying to help all users understand the WGA program.

     Davon Shire wrote:

    1. What are all the points of data WGA Validation collects from a person's computer. (Don't point me to the FAQ, because that says. 'Some of the info' It does not list all of them.)

    This information can be found in the Microsoft Genuine Advantage Privacy Statement, as well as the WGA Notifications EULA.

     Davon Shire wrote:

    2. What are all the factors involved in voiding one's EULA after a machine has passed WGA validation? (Not very long ago, there was a huge problem with motherboard makers buying cheap defective capacitors. This caused motherboards to fail in the thousands.) From what's been revealed here in this forum, it would seem that if you didn't buy a retail version of Windows XP. You will most likely end up having to buy a new Windows XP to continue using your machine if you have your motherboard replaced. (just an example)

    Unfortunately, I cannot answer this question - this question can only be answered by Microsoft Legal team. Unfortunately, the best way to directly contact them is to go through the Microsoft feedback link.

     Davon Shire wrote:

    3. Why is Microsoft after more than 4 years of distrubuting this operating system now coming out with this new validation and notification system, why not include it in the new Vista OS so people really do have a choice?

    It takes time to develope and release a program as large scale as this. I do believe implementation in Vista is on the drawing board.

     Davon Shire wrote:

    4. What are all the components and softwares involved in the WGA program, and what do they do?

    WGA Validation - Only validates the system when trying to access certain things. IE7, WMP11, Defender, some aspects of Download Center, some aspects of Windows Update.

    WGA Notifications - Notifies user of the genuine status of their machine and allows them to resolve it instantly if chosen. Also notifies users of SP1 and RTM that SP1 automatic updates support is stopping very soon (this can be disabled).

     Davon Shire wrote:

    5. Are there any non system binding ways for Microsoft to validate a user's OS? One's that don't require the permanent installation of software? Why can Microsoft not provide an uninstall package so people can remove the software if it troubles them, or they feel they can not comply with the EULA?

    Users have the ability to reject the EULA before installation.

     Davon Shire wrote:

    6. Where is the EULA for WGA validation and WGA Notification that people can read before they download the software? If it's not available for people to read online, why is it not available? Could someone post the EULA's so people can read them?

    The EULA for WGA Notifications is embedded in the installer. You must attempt to install before prompted the EULA. Users have the ability and option to reject the EULA if they feel they do not want the WGA Notifications program.

     Davon Shire wrote:

    7. If WGA Validation passes, why must WGA notification be installed to get all the goodies. Why can people not manually update critical and high priority drivers from Windows Update?

    WGA Validation is only required to get "goodies". :). They can manually update it from Windows update...

     Davon Shire wrote:

    8. If the WGA program is so great for customers, why use bait (free software and updates) to entice people to install it on their computers?

    Its a benefit for only genuine users. 

     Davon Shire wrote:

    That's pretty much the hash of my questions I posed almost a month ago via Microsofts contact/feedback system.

    Anyone taking bets on how many questions will actually get answers?

    Ciao

     

    I have recieved user complaints of the atititude in the posting. I am not deleting it, because I deem that the answers have merit. However, anymore and I will have to lock the thread, unfortunately.

     

    -phil

    Friday, August 4, 2006 6:47 PM

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    Davon,

    All of your issues have been addressed in postings in this forum.  Try searching for some of your issues.

    A little quality time spent with Google will also get you more information than you ever wanted to know about your concerns.

    Thursday, July 27, 2006 3:07 PM
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    Dan,

      Thanks for taking the time and being so helpful. In the way that someone says something that carries little if any specific information.

      You are not an employee of Microsoft. You can not make any factual statements about the internal workings of this software or Microsoft's plans now or in the future. You have informed me that if I spent a little quality time searching here or Google, I would have all the answers I brought questions too.

      You have been as helpful as Microsoft in your reply. I have searched this forum as you suggest for 'What are all the wga softwares and what do they do?', 'check my windows XP without installing WGA Notifications', 'information not collected by wga', 'bios wga'

      In most of the posts I've found on WGA what it does, and what it means if you don't install it. You do become a volunteer of the Microsoft Marketing team. Microsoft wants something back for offering updated software, non-critical but important patches, and new software to help Microsoft be more important in your life.

     I try to put the burden of response on 'Responsible' Microsoft people, by interfaces that are provided by Microsoft on their website. That failed, they do not read or reply in any salient or meaningful manner other than, install our software and if you you have a problem. You are most likely in violation of the EUL and must enjoy the friendly reminders to become Genuine, wipe your system completely and reinstall your windows system and all the software packages and data, and then enable automatic Updates (AU), so it automatically pulls critical updates for your machine for you. It can help keep track of you since you won't let WGA do it's job, or buy a fresh license from Microsoft.

     Microsoft offers bulk sales of it's amazing operating systems to manufacturers, who are 'Suppose to comply' with Microsofts Genuine guidelines. If they don't and you end up with a problem, they say contact your vendor, (An electronics department store), who tells you they don't do anything by sell it, contact the maker of your computer, who tells you to use the reinstall disk that came with your system. So you're back to wiping your machine, being banned from software updates and fixes, and it's all your fault because you won't do what Microsoft wants you to do. As you say, if you don't like it, don't use it. The fact that a considerable amount of cost for your computer was for the price of this Microsoft Software. Shouldn't matter to you. You don't own anything, you're simply renting your software from Microsoft till they decide you are done with it.

     So you clearly are solid with Microsoft and have the same attitude that Microsoft has. Don't blame them, they didn't make you buy your computer, they don't make you install their software. It's all your fault for using Windows XP in the first place. If you think there is a update for a part of your software that is screwing up like say ACPI and you don't want to put your faith in us that we will not do you wrong. Then suffer our defective drivers, libraries and browser. There are lots more people willing to obey.

      You want to speak as someone who is very up on WinXP and all this. Then tell me, what doesn't get recorded by WGA? What will set off a notification after you've been validated? Is there a validation tool that is 'NON-invasive' Does not install it'self on your computer so you can use their windows update site to try and fix their defective software?

      The whole purpose of a forum is to have an ever growing repository of salient information about a topic, subject or product that has real people responding who know what they are saying and want to contribute. If real answers come to the questions I've made in this topic. Than infact it will be easy and informative. Right now, I find nothing that suits me. And that's really what it all comes down to isn't it? Suit the person who spent the money to buy the product and wants to be happy with what he bought?

     

    Thanks again

    Thursday, July 27, 2006 4:49 PM
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    What you're looking for is the WGA Privacy statement: http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/downloads/PrivacyInfo.aspx

    Let me know how I can help.

    -phil

    Friday, July 28, 2006 4:48 PM
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    Phil

      Thanks for your contribution, I can assure you I read that page quite thoroughly and it does not answer all questions I have posed. It answers 2 to a point. There are two components both of which are permenantly tied to your operating system. The validator and the Notifier. Further research determines that there is also the wga diagnosis and whatever else but none of this stuff is cleanly laid out so people can directly understand what they giving away their rights to.

      I quote "The tools collect such information as:" and it lists off the items. Perhaps I'm a stickler for things but the phrase 'Such Information as'  indicates that this is not a definitive list but rather an example of information that is collected. This is like saying Microsoft produces software such as MASM, QuickBasic and various windows operating systems.

      Please Microsoft if you are listening. Tell us why we must invite you into our computers forever? You make us agree to the EULA (whither we read it or not.) and give us absolutely no way to revoke, change or resend the agreement without destroying everything we have on our computers and reinstalling? And even then it  only gives us the chance to revoke. What's so special about your software or so incredibly weak that people can not decide they don't want to be part of your marketing scheme? They don't want to be nagged again that a new Service pack is out for their computer. All the while you retain the power to change, alter, revoke or disreguard the contents of the EULA and do as you please.

      I asked simple questions of Microsoft via their contact feedback system. They responded with boilerplate copy that answered nothing I hadn't already read. I came to their forum and ask simple questions and am told. 'That information is already covered (somewhere) in this forum just search for it, or visit Google and search there.

      Thanks Phil for being one of the Microsoft good guys and telling me exactly what is on the Genuine website without even reading my questions and considering if your reply is really related. You make me feel good that I can pay for something and know Microsoft will stretch the truth, play with words and exclude anything information wise that might let someone who's thinking understand just how much power you give to Microsoft every time you agree to their EULA's.

      The first guy who wrote me has mentioned several times how Microsoft licenses can be Tricky and all too often people (everyday people who bought a computer) Probably are in violation or using an expired license. It seems to me Microsoft has given everyone a good reason to be cautious about anything Microsoft writes. It's guarenteed to have as much positive spin as they can apply even if it omits important information that people might not so readily agree too.

     

    Thanks again. I'm still looking for my answers.

     

    Friday, July 28, 2006 6:43 PM
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     Davon Shire wrote:

    Repeatedly,

      I have submitted questions to Microsoft via their contact tools and have received nothing back from them except boiler plate responses suggesting I visit and use the WGA diagnostic tool to help determine what my problem is using WGA.

    I'm sorry, but there is only so much we can provide through the support channel. Additional quesitons should be directed to our Legal and Public Relations department. At this time, we can only provide what is readily availble via public press statements and the website privacy and FAQ.

     Davon Shire wrote:

      Here's the deal. I do not want to install the WGA validation tool until I have assurances from Microsoft that my machine will not become a Nag box. It's already been determined that once your machine has been branded with the WGA Validation tool it can not be removed.

    If you validate fine, you should be okay with WGA Notifications.

     Davon Shire wrote:

     If I could get written statements saying what all the various Windows Genuine Advantage software are and what they do. As it seems there are several different components to this software designed to enhance my Windows Experience. I feel sure I would be more at ease with joining the Windows Genuine Advantage people.

    These are readily available via the www.microsoft.com/genuine FAQ. Details about WGA notifications can be found http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/AboutNotifications.mspx?displaylang=en

     Davon Shire wrote:
      I bought my HP computer from Circuit City unboxed. Meaning someone had used it before me. I have no problem if there were a software that would check my machine but not install itself permanently to repeatedly complain 'I'm not Genuine' I paid the price for my computer. I do not want some company ruining my 'Windows Experience' because they decide to corrupt my computer with their Marketing software.

    We cannot be responsible for the software the previous user has placed on the machine you have purchased. The purpose of the WGA program is to inform and update the current user the status of their machine and licenses they have purchased regarding Windows and Office.

     Davon Shire wrote:
     In my previous contacts with Microsoft I have asked, what happens if I replace my harddrive since WGA records it's serial number. If I have a crash, want a larger drive, decide it's too slow or that the sky should be pink. I don't want to suddenly end up with a non-genuine computer. Disaster hits and my intel processor dies and has to be replaced, or the motherboard ends up with bad capacitors and as to be replaced?

    If you are using a retail copy of Windows XP, you should be fine with a simple reactivation. Changing hardware out of a certain tolerance may break the EULA with OEM/System Builder licenses. This can be found at www.howtotell.com

     Davon Shire wrote:
     

    Thanks.

     

    You're welcome.

    Friday, July 28, 2006 7:01 PM
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     Davon Shire wrote:

    Phil

      Thanks for your contribution, I can assure you I read that page quite thoroughly and it does not answer all questions I have posed. It answers 2 to a point. There are two components both of which are permenantly tied to your operating system. The validator and the Notifier. Further research determines that there is also the wga diagnosis and whatever else but none of this stuff is cleanly laid out so people can directly understand what they giving away their rights to.

      Please Microsoft if you are listening. Tell us why we must invite you into our computers forever? You make us agree to the EULA (whither we read it or not.) and give us absolutely no way to revoke, change or resend the agreement without destroying everything we have on our computers and reinstalling? And even then it  only gives us the chance to revoke. What's so special about your software or so incredibly weak that people can not decide they don't want to be part of your marketing scheme? They don't want to be nagged again that a new Service pack is out for their computer. All the while you retain the power to change, alter, revoke or disreguard the contents of the EULA and do as you please.

    At this time, the Notifications program is opt-in and is very explicit in the EULA as to what we are legally bound to. This is a legal document that we MUST follow.

     Davon Shire wrote:

      I asked simple questions of Microsoft via their contact feedback system. They responded with boilerplate copy that answered nothing I hadn't already read. I came to their forum and ask simple questions and am told. 'That information is already covered (somewhere) in this forum just search for it, or visit Google and search there.

    That specific support line is very limited to what we are allowed to disclose outside of public newsletters, press releases, and website pages.

     Davon Shire wrote:
      Thanks Phil for being one of the Microsoft good guys

    Sure. You're welcome.

     Davon Shire wrote:
        The first guy who wrote me has mentioned several times how Microsoft licenses can be Tricky and all too often people (everyday people who bought a computer) Probably are in violation or using an expired license. It seems to me Microsoft has given everyone a good reason to be cautious about anything Microsoft writes. It's guarenteed to have as much positive spin as they can apply even if it omits important information that people might not so readily agree too.


    I believe what you're referring to is licensing USAGE that is causing confusion.

     

    -phil

    Friday, July 28, 2006 7:05 PM
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     Phil thanks so much for the replies to some of my questions and statements, it irks me something fierce that after all this effort on my part to get real answers I end up with. "I'm sorry you'll have to contact our lawyers if you want any deeper answers or responses." Fact is, you won't get anything technical out of the lawyers other than 'Microsoft is technically within their rights to not discuss anything they don't want to.'

     The information gleaned through my rather exhaustive queries and posts amounts to this.

    Microsoft will not supply a complete list of information collected from your computer for their WGA program. It's up to you to trust Microsoft that they really are not collecting Personally Identifiable Information. Microsoft went all the way to a German Computer Security company to have them test their methods and ensure that such information is not collected. (They however only provide a link to the German version of the company's website and they do not give direct reference to 'The Methodology involved.' You have to find that somewhere on their site.)

    Microsoft provides a detailed EULA for WGA notifications, (Not WGA Validation), that explains the rights you give up to let them put this software on your computer. Agreeing to this electronic document is permanent, in so long as your os remains on your hard drive and you do not do a fresh reinstall which is the only way to revoke your agreement. Microsoft however reserves the right to update or change the EULA at their whim.

    Microsoft openly admits that various marketing and demographic information is collected with this WGA system and will try to lure you with new software, patches and warm fuzzies in exchange for letting them brand your computer and let it help them with their marketing programs.

    Microsoft's system can not be complete without WGA notifications being installed. It's current functions described by Phil, indicate that it is there to let you know if you've slipped out of compliance with the EULA of your issue of Windows XP. Further the website details that it will also let you know of new service packs available and perhaps more hard to say without talking with their lawyers.

    Microsoft can and will update WGA Validation and WGA Notification, which may or may not contain new ideals of what makes your OS valid and what information is supplied to Microsoft.

    WGA notification for those who fail to validate, can turn off the notifications if it bothers them, but depending on updates it may let you know again you are not in compliance.

    Lastly, even if (like my machines) you validate via WGA validation. Microsoft still wants WGA notification on your computer to help keep you informed. Kind of like how Real Networks and other companies install popup windows to let you know of something new happening. We all love those.

    WGA Validation program let's Microsoft place the burden of purity on you if you fail their test, perhaps you pirated the software, perhaps it was improperly installed by the company who built your computer, or maybe you had a bad motherboard and are suddenly faced with buying a new license. It's not sufficient that they check that you're OS is valid when you try to get updates or new software from their site. They want you to agree to let them NAG.. err notify you when ever they feel like it.

    For a very long time, I've held what I think is a pretty fair view of Microsoft. It's not easy making an operating system like Windows, windows XP etc. It takes a huge investment in money, brilliance, dedication, and marketing. I love windows in general because it has succeeded for the most part as the 'Everyone's' operating system. It's done so better than any other OS on the planet.

    If I had any real complaints about The WGA it would be that it is designed to help Microsoft, not it's customers. Microsoft who's marketing team developed probably hundreds of marketing tiers for a few dozen products. It would be lots easier for people if their were only one version of Windows XP. But Microsoft has developed all these tiers to maximize income from every avenue. OEM licenses are much more restrictive than Retail licenses. So the Manufacturer doesn't have to charge as much or pay as much for their Windows they sell installed on the computers people buy.

    The tragety when you buy a computer with an OEM version of Windows installed on it, you've paid for that version that is locked to an agreement the manufacturer made with Microsoft. And if something happens to that machine that fails WGA validation. You now have to satisfy Microsoft and buy a new license. It probably would have been a better service to you to not have had an OS on the machine in the first place. How many people buy a new OS for a new Machine that already has an OS and all it's drivers on it?

    Thanks.

     

    Friday, August 4, 2006 3:07 PM
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    Could you clarify your question?

     

    Thanks!

     

    -phil

    Friday, August 4, 2006 5:20 PM
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    Oh my gawd Phil, probably the very best reply so far.

    To list the questions involved in all this. I'll do my best to make it simple.

    1. What are all the points of data WGA Validation collects from a person's computer. (Don't point me to the FAQ, because that says. 'Some of the info' It does not list all of them.)

    2. What are all the factors involved in voiding one's EULA after a machine has passed WGA validation? (Not very long ago, there was a huge problem with motherboard makers buying cheap defective capacitors. This caused motherboards to fail in the thousands.) From what's been revealed here in this forum, it would seem that if you didn't buy a retail version of Windows XP. You will most likely end up having to buy a new Windows XP to continue using your machine if you have your motherboard replaced. (just an example)

    3. Why is Microsoft after more than 4 years of distrubuting this operating system now coming out with this new validation and notification system, why not include it in the new Vista OS so people really do have a choice?

    4. What are all the components and softwares involved in the WGA program, and what do they do?

    5. Are there any non system binding ways for Microsoft to validate a user's OS? One's that don't require the permanent installation of software? Why can Microsoft not provide an uninstall package so people can remove the software if it troubles them, or they feel they can not comply with the EULA?

    6. Where is the EULA for WGA validation and WGA Notification that people can read before they download the software? If it's not available for people to read online, why is it not available? Could someone post the EULA's so people can read them?

    7. If WGA Validation passes, why must WGA notification be installed to get all the goodies. Why can people not manually update critical and high priority drivers from Windows Update?

    8. If the WGA program is so great for customers, why use bait (free software and updates) to entice people to install it on their computers?

     

    That's pretty much the hash of my questions I posed almost a month ago via Microsofts contact/feedback system.

    Anyone taking bets on how many questions will actually get answers?

    Ciao


     

     

    Friday, August 4, 2006 6:36 PM
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     Davon Shire wrote:

    Oh my gawd Phil, probably the very best reply so far.

    Thanks! I do enjoy trying to help all users understand the WGA program.

     Davon Shire wrote:

    1. What are all the points of data WGA Validation collects from a person's computer. (Don't point me to the FAQ, because that says. 'Some of the info' It does not list all of them.)

    This information can be found in the Microsoft Genuine Advantage Privacy Statement, as well as the WGA Notifications EULA.

     Davon Shire wrote:

    2. What are all the factors involved in voiding one's EULA after a machine has passed WGA validation? (Not very long ago, there was a huge problem with motherboard makers buying cheap defective capacitors. This caused motherboards to fail in the thousands.) From what's been revealed here in this forum, it would seem that if you didn't buy a retail version of Windows XP. You will most likely end up having to buy a new Windows XP to continue using your machine if you have your motherboard replaced. (just an example)

    Unfortunately, I cannot answer this question - this question can only be answered by Microsoft Legal team. Unfortunately, the best way to directly contact them is to go through the Microsoft feedback link.

     Davon Shire wrote:

    3. Why is Microsoft after more than 4 years of distrubuting this operating system now coming out with this new validation and notification system, why not include it in the new Vista OS so people really do have a choice?

    It takes time to develope and release a program as large scale as this. I do believe implementation in Vista is on the drawing board.

     Davon Shire wrote:

    4. What are all the components and softwares involved in the WGA program, and what do they do?

    WGA Validation - Only validates the system when trying to access certain things. IE7, WMP11, Defender, some aspects of Download Center, some aspects of Windows Update.

    WGA Notifications - Notifies user of the genuine status of their machine and allows them to resolve it instantly if chosen. Also notifies users of SP1 and RTM that SP1 automatic updates support is stopping very soon (this can be disabled).

     Davon Shire wrote:

    5. Are there any non system binding ways for Microsoft to validate a user's OS? One's that don't require the permanent installation of software? Why can Microsoft not provide an uninstall package so people can remove the software if it troubles them, or they feel they can not comply with the EULA?

    Users have the ability to reject the EULA before installation.

     Davon Shire wrote:

    6. Where is the EULA for WGA validation and WGA Notification that people can read before they download the software? If it's not available for people to read online, why is it not available? Could someone post the EULA's so people can read them?

    The EULA for WGA Notifications is embedded in the installer. You must attempt to install before prompted the EULA. Users have the ability and option to reject the EULA if they feel they do not want the WGA Notifications program.

     Davon Shire wrote:

    7. If WGA Validation passes, why must WGA notification be installed to get all the goodies. Why can people not manually update critical and high priority drivers from Windows Update?

    WGA Validation is only required to get "goodies". :). They can manually update it from Windows update...

     Davon Shire wrote:

    8. If the WGA program is so great for customers, why use bait (free software and updates) to entice people to install it on their computers?

    Its a benefit for only genuine users. 

     Davon Shire wrote:

    That's pretty much the hash of my questions I posed almost a month ago via Microsofts contact/feedback system.

    Anyone taking bets on how many questions will actually get answers?

    Ciao

     

    I have recieved user complaints of the atititude in the posting. I am not deleting it, because I deem that the answers have merit. However, anymore and I will have to lock the thread, unfortunately.

     

    -phil

    Friday, August 4, 2006 6:47 PM
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    Phil,

      I'm serious this time, thank you for the answers you provided. While not everything received an answer to my satisfaction. Important questions, critical questions I think were answered in a clear and concise way that are not provided in the FAQ or anywhere else on this forum.

      That it has taken so much effort and time of myself and those who gave replies I think says volumes about how difficult it is to communicate with Microsoft. If people complained because I presented an attitude, I would say they should meet me in real life. I have used neither profanity nor insults in my replies or statements here. And I would happily say everything I've said here in public before a person, a judge or an audiance.

      Rarely are people presented with EULA's to read when doing updates from Windows Updates. When I saw WGA validation and Notifications in my update list I was afraid they would be installed like so many other updates are installed, completely blind and and eventually after the software was permanently bound to my computer, I would be notified I could accept the EULA or not etc. If you think this unreasonable, sorry but I'd say I'm not alone in having this worry.

      This forum topic was for people who had questions or worries about the WGA program to get replies and create discussion. I ask hard, direct, specific questions several times here. And after 9 tries I got enough to be ok with the WGA prorgam as far as validation goes. Is it any wonder people get frustrated and rumors get started?

      I made 5 replies to the responses from the feedback tools on the genuine site. After the third, they escalated my questions to the manager, who said he would forward on my questions. But after that I never heard another word.

      My apologies to the people who felt I didn't present an attitude that they were comfortable with, clearly you've had better experiences with Microsoft than I have. I'd like to have really good experiences with Microsoft.

    Thanks again Phil you did give some very important answers.

     

    Friday, August 4, 2006 8:32 PM
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     Davon Shire wrote:

    Repeatedly,

      I have submitted questions to Microsoft via their contact tools and have received nothing back from them except boiler plate responses suggesting I visit and use the WGA diagnostic tool to help determine what my problem is using WGA.

      When you ask specific questions and get no relevent reply, what is the use of the tool any way?

      Here's the deal. I do not want to install the WGA validation tool until I have assurances from Microsoft that my machine will not become a Nag box. It's already been determined that once your machine has been branded with the WGA Validation tool it can not be removed.

      Microsoft further does not provide explicit proof that they do not collect PII (Personally Identifiable Information). They explain that their process has been reviewed by a certified and experienced German Computer Security Company, who's page when you first go to it is in German. You get past that by locating the English version. Then there's the problem of actually finding the 'Methodology' used to ensure that Microsoft doesn't collect PII.

     If I could get written statements saying what all the various Windows Genuine Advantage software are and what they do. As it seems there are several different components to this software designed to enhance my Windows Experience. I feel sure I would be more at ease with joining the Windows Genuine Advantage people.

     I bought my HP computer from Circuit City unboxed. Meaning someone had used it before me. I have no problem if there were a software that would check my machine but not install itself permanently to repeatedly complain 'I'm not Genuine' I paid the price for my computer. I do not want some company ruining my 'Windows Experience' because they decide to corrupt my computer with their Marketing software.

     In my previous contacts with Microsoft I have asked, what happens if I replace my harddrive since WGA records it's serial number. If I have a crash, want a larger drive, decide it's too slow or that the sky should be pink. I don't want to suddenly end up with a non-genuine computer. Disaster hits and my intel processor dies and has to be replaced, or the motherboard ends up with bad capacitors and as to be replaced?

     Microsoft has gone to great lengths to put positive spin on this great Windows Genuine Advantage campaign. Making people see the advantages of it all, luring them with new softwares and 'Gasp' the chance to actually patch your system if someone finds a remote exploit. But they have done little to really define, detail and explain all the different softwares? For all I know the one piece of software I'm refusing to let Windows update install, may not be the Windows Genuine Advantage Notifications thing and I don't have to worry about microsoft adding one more Pop-up notice window to my computer complaining that I'm running my computer not in the same way Microsoft feels I should run it.  

     That Microsoft states clearly that they do not collect any Personally Identifiable Information (PII) after explaining they record hard drive serial numbers, bios check sums and versions, and IP addresses. It doesn't really say specifically what it does not record. And that it updates itself dynamically through your internet connection at Microsoft's whim is I think the most egregious self serving operation of a 'Proven Monopolistic Company'. Not only do they not tell people what will cause their machines to become non-genuine, they do not tell people what is not collected, they do not tell people that their IP address is logged and not the MAC address of their ethernet adapter. Etc.

     What's more, what happens if Microsoft Marketing decides they want or need a little more information? Thankfully everyone who's run WGA is infected with a great marketing remote control letting them collect whatever information they want. They specifically say that the WGA is/will be updated and that the Privacy policy they use can and will be updated as they see fit.

      Please Microsoft, if you want me to believe in you, have faith that you mean no harm, State what you do not collect and what you will not collect and what will cause a violation of your 'Purity' test.

     

    Thanks.

    Saturday, February 3, 2007 12:59 PM
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    Thanks for bumping this.  Microsoft continues to want more personal information from it's customers while putting roadblocks up to finding out what they are up to with such probing into our personal computer usage, IP addresses, storing computer information on CD's we burn without a choice to put it there or not, not giving us the choice of whether we want "historys" of files viewed to be logged somewhere, always trying to ram IE down our throats, etc, etc, and, of course, trying to regulate how we use their software and for what period of time before we are slapped back like children. XP was bad enough but it looks like Vista will take the award.
    Sunday, February 4, 2007 2:51 AM
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    I think the document the original poster is looking for can be found here:
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302878#5h

    This documents what the Hardware hash ID consists of, which indeed includes the network MAC address, which can be considered a unique machine identifier.  This is similar to the CPU "serial" number idea that Intel wound up removing due to pressures for personal privacy.

    Thursday, February 8, 2007 7:48 PM
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    This is a long and fascinating thread, sorry for not jumping in sooner.

    As Director for the program, let me make a very simple statement:  Microsoft is not interested in learning the personal identities of customers through this program.  We do not wish to contact users (good, honest customers or pirates) so we do not use any of the information collected to identify or contact our users.  The purpose of the program is to serve as a reminder to please pay us for our work.  We want customers when they buy a computer or new software to remember to say, "by the way, is this a genuine copy;" and the dealer to think, "I'd better give this person the real thing, they know what's what."  We are well aware that not everyone will be sway by our program, and that the hard-core pirates probably won't.  And we absolutely want to ensure the program is a positive experience for honest customers who have paid for their software.

    I hope that this statement of intent (not meant to be a legal listing of term & conditions, merely intent) is helpful.

    Thanks,

    David

    Saturday, February 10, 2007 12:52 AM