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HP Mediasmart hardware

Question
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I was just looking at pictures of the HP Mediasmart home server. A few question arise. There is no optical drive. If you had to reinstall the OS, I presume there is a hidden partition with original image. Otherwise you would have to attached a usb Dvd drive, which I guess would work. What really has me perplexed is the lack of a graphics port. If you ever need to re-install will it be unattended installation or is there such thing as a usb-to-vga port?
Any thoughts on these?Wednesday, June 20, 2007 5:04 PM
Answers
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I don't have any details on this particular model but here is the basic procedure that OEMs will be using.
On the server there will be a "Recovery" button. If this button is pressed during startup the BOIS will boot to a recovery mode, in this mode the recovery software running on a different compuer on the network will be able to access the hard drives and reimage the system drive.
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:00 PM
All replies
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It's likely that you will either obtain a new system drive from HP (or whoever) or you will be able to install over your network in some fashion. It's not uncommon for headless servers to have that sort of network reinstall functionality, though I don't know exactly how it works.Wednesday, June 20, 2007 5:08 PMModerator
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I don't have any details on this particular model but here is the basic procedure that OEMs will be using.
On the server there will be a "Recovery" button. If this button is pressed during startup the BOIS will boot to a recovery mode, in this mode the recovery software running on a different compuer on the network will be able to access the hard drives and reimage the system drive.
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:00 PM -
I thought I heard somewhere that microsoft will be suggesting vendors putting in a flash memory chip into their systems that will act as system restore storage.... Heck, 2 Gig SD+CF cards + 2 Gig flash drives can often be purchased for less than $30 dollars at the consumer level.... an OEM buying thousands of them could probalby add this to their system for $5-10 bucks... that would be worth it to more.
Joel
Friday, June 22, 2007 12:48 PM -
teststrips wrote: I thought I heard somewhere that microsoft will be suggesting vendors putting in a flash memory chip into their systems that will act as system restore storage.... Heck, 2 Gig SD+CF cards + 2 Gig flash drives can often be purchased for less than $30 dollars at the consumer level.... an OEM buying thousands of them could probalby add this to their system for $5-10 bucks... that would be worth it to more.
Joel
For that matter, include a USB Stick drive with the boot image on it. Set it to read only, so the user can't format and use for something else, and you're set.
Friday, June 22, 2007 2:05 PM -
Prelector wrote: teststrips wrote: I thought I heard somewhere that microsoft will be suggesting vendors putting in a flash memory chip into their systems that will act as system restore storage.... Heck, 2 Gig SD+CF cards + 2 Gig flash drives can often be purchased for less than $30 dollars at the consumer level.... an OEM buying thousands of them could probalby add this to their system for $5-10 bucks... that would be worth it to more.
Joel
For that matter, include a USB Stick drive with the boot image on it. Set it to read only, so the user can't format and use for something else, and you're set.
That's a much more simple solution... sometimes its hard to see the obvious answer.
Friday, June 22, 2007 5:24 PM -
Here is the information I have from a MS produced PowerPoint presentation
Recovery can be used when: - Home Server primary hard drive crashes
- Windows Home Server password is forgotten
- Change of locale on the server
System Builders
- Reboot from installation DVD
- Select "Server Reinstallation" option
OEM Device
- OEM creates system image
- User boots home server device from flash ROM
- Use Home Server Recovery application from one of the home computers
Note that MS doesn't specify what they mean by "flash ROM" or where the image will be stored.
I have an idea that wouldn't require any recovery media but I'm not sure if it will work with WHS.
Create an OS image on a read only Disk on Chip module and use the Embedded Write Filter to redirect all writes to a disk overlay on the first hard drive. Since all changes that are being made are being written to the overlay, the OS can be restored to factory condition simply by wiping the overlay or replacing the disk.
Friday, June 22, 2007 10:07 PM -
I got some more information about the recovery procedure. Keep in mind that the actual recovery procedure will be developed by OEMs and not Microsoft but Microsoft does provide some hardware requirements
Core-016: Windows Home Server must meet recovery button requirements
Required: A user-accessible button that, when pressed, indicates that the BIOS should boot in recovery mode.Firm-001: Windows Home Server systems must meet BIOS boot order requirements
Required:- The BIOS boot order for normal operation must include the Primary disk as the first boot device.
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The BIOS boot order when in recovery mode must be as follows:
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External USB Flash
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USB CD/DVD
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Internal Flash (if implemented)
Sys-005: Windows Home Server flash memory must meet minimum requirements if present
If-implemented definition: If the system is designed to use flash memory for system recovery, it must comply with this requirement.
Windows Home Server flash memory, if present, must meet the following requirements:-
Minimum of 256 MB
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The system must be able to boot from the flash memory
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The flash memory must be updateable.
Flash memory of 256 MB would never be able to contain an OS image but it could contain enough code to start a network based recovery.
Friday, July 27, 2007 3:22 AM -
The cheapest 2GB USB flash drive I can find on NewEgg is under $20. It's slow, but it would be good enough for a recovery, don't you think?Friday, July 27, 2007 3:40 AMModerator
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Since I'm building my own WHS, will this recovery ability be available to us as well?Friday, July 27, 2007 4:57 PM
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Since it's a hardware function, if you can find a motherboard that supports it (the only one I've seen announced so far is the Gigabyt board, but there are probably at least a couple of others) I assume the hardware side of it will be. You might have to outfit your WHS with a special "recovery" button that hooks up to a header on the MB, or something like that.
And I bet you'll have to come up with the "recovery" code yourself, because that's probably tied to OS and hardware customizations that OEMs are doing. The recovery code is the hard part, of course.Friday, July 27, 2007 5:17 PMModerator -
Freight77 wrote: Since I'm building my own WHS, will this recovery ability be available to us as well? As long as you start with a motherboard designed for WHS. It will be up to you to develop the recovey program, the recovery button only changes the boot order. Keep in mind that your program has to run headless so any user input has to be done over the network.
Friday, July 27, 2007 8:59 PM -
It has to be simple -and it has to be effective - taking a snapshot AFTER the home user has set his system up :
this is what I did :
http://green-pcs.co.uk/2007/09/01/the-keys-to-success/
thanks for everyones support.
Saturday, September 1, 2007 5:17 PM -
So, I'm reading the blog post you linked. I have a comment, which is that you did an admirable end run around the question of a server reinstallation, but I don't see why you bothered. If you choose your hardware to work with WHS, then you don't need to bypass a reinstallation, and the data actually lost is fairly minimal. It's the work of an hour to recreate the users, add the PCs back in, and reinstall any add-ins. Other software will take longer, but most users won't install other software. Heck, most users probably won't install any add-ins (beta testers excluded
).
And I'm afraid I have to ask this, because your blog post doesn't say anything sufficiently concrete that I would want to recommend others rely on your method:
If I simulate a serious software error by e.g. formatting C: (so there's absolutely nothing left), then try a restore, what happens? Have you done this, or are you extrapolating from tests that you have done? If you're extrapolating, what tests did you perform that you're extrapolating from?Saturday, September 1, 2007 5:55 PMModerator -
Ken,
It's always good to read your responses, you know we have exchanged views and ideas before ?
How concrete is the solution - well it's hardened concrete ! It has to be.
It's based on the creation of a capsule (image of the C: drive) - which is then positioned after the DATA drive (normally takes about 3GB)....... it's based on a world class 'image/recovery' solution (one of the top 5 anyway). We've just tweaked it and made it work with our BIOS.
The creation of the capsule is done under WinPE from a USB flash (HDD), all silent and effective - if you attach a monitor, you can see the activity. The design, is that the image creation can be done at any time - ie after a user setup (and can be updated at any time - ie after a new user / new HDD / major update.
The recovery 'operation' simply boots the system (WinPE), and puts the image back to the C: partition
(again, IF there was a VGA monitor, you can see it).
All done from 2x USB sticks, part of the 'trick' was the BIOS setup, ie ALWAYS booting from a USB flash (HDD), if one was present - the WHS OEM hardware is like this - by pressing the 'recovery' button, it forces the BIOS to change it's boot order. With our hardware, it's not like that we dont need the button.
We've successfully tested the solution, ie erase a MAJOR folder structure from C: - then re-start (it wouldn't re-start) - then inserted the 'green' key (USB recovery device) - and 6-7 minutes later the system shuts down (completed) - remove the key and presto - back to the 'setup state'....... what could be easier.
Always welcome your feedback Ken
Saturday, September 1, 2007 8:35 PM -
I had a pretty good idea what you were doing, though the details are appreciated.
The major folder structure I'm most interested in hearing about a successful recovery from is C:\FS. That folder doesn't contain any actual files, instead it contains mount points, which aren't quite as easy to deal with. The other thing I'd be interested in hearing about is recovery of files with alternate data streams.
Oh, and am I correct in thinking that a server reinstallation will wipe your hidden partition? Or have you found a way to avoid that?Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:00 PMModerator -
Ken,
I'll have to wait until Monday for the labs to look at C:\FS - I'm sure it's not a problem - I can see on my 'recovered' system here that deep in \FS there are picture files - they aren't really there - as they are not taking up space, but they are 'registered' and the attached 'duplication' HDD still is showing in the 'pool', and 'OK' - the pictures are viewable via browsing a 'shared' folder from a 'client' PC.
As the 'image' is a capsule of the entire C: partition, I can't see any issues.
We checked AFTER recovery if the shared folders / HDDs / etc were still mapped OK, and yes, they were - just like they were before the 'deletion' / 'wrecking' of the system partitionRe re-installation - well, we don't plan to have to offer that - we don't provide a Optical drive, and the solution we have does seem to remove the requirement. (Re-install wipes C: or C: + D: + all other partitions ?, sorry I haven't personally seen a 're-install' - as it's not in our plans). The 'hidden' partition is 'after' D: - it has no ID as such. It has an independent system layout (e.g. a separate hard disk partition) that will stay operable should the active file system be damaged.
This not be the 'best' solution, or the most cost effective, but it's simple, it works, and it's looking very good right now - just as long as you can either fix your BIOS (as we did) to boot USBHDD (automatic priority), or use another way to boot from USBHDD.
We've looked at other solutions, but all require 'user' input - even if only pressing an 'F' key - but we can't do that - so it's not an option.
Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:23 PM -
A server reinstallation will probably be required, even for your design, if you ship a unit and it suffers a major hardware failure (i.e. motherboard) during the warranty period. I would assume you'll ship a new unit. I haven't experimented a lot with this side of things, but I would expect that your customer's best bet would be a reinstallaiton, which will rebuild the D: partition to match their storage partition drives.
Or do you have a different plan?Saturday, September 1, 2007 10:58 PMModerator -
A main board (or other fatal) fault, is a different matter, than just an OS (C
problem, which may be caused by 'user error' etc.
At present, we offer a RTB warranty period onall of our equipment, this does not however cover data protection.
It is certainly worth considering that IF there should be any other failure, than the primary HDD itself, that there should be a 'tool set' to recover as much of the user data / settings as possible. Of course the 'recovery capsule' is maintained on the primary HDD, so there's nothing much anyone can do IF the primary HDD fails (except of course to rely on the fact that precious data is still held on the 'duplicated' drive (s).
I will present this task (recovery tool set) to my team next week, and see what solutions we come up with. As an organisation, customer satisfaction is our number one priority - in deed and word. Providing a 'fatal system error ' recovery service is a must, for WHS users (the data is MOST precious) - and we will certainly be ensuring that such a service mechanism is reviewed,and offered.
Sunday, September 2, 2007 6:55 PM -
I'm a bit confused about what your recovery solution gains. Since the image is being stored on the hard drive it doesn't protect against hard drive failure. Since the image is created after OOBE it doesn't help in case of a lost password.
Making a server automatically boot to external media without intervention doesn't seem to be such a good idea. A server restore is something that is done so infrequently so you can trouble your customers with the procedure of setting up a local console.
Wednesday, September 5, 2007 1:33 AM -
I would go further to say that with the shear number of boot viruses, would you want to allow booting from a reprogrammable media? I would much prefer a CD launched program on a LAN computer that polls the WHS, then you press a recovery button on the WHS, and finally the WHS answers the poll and initiates a secure console connection - this would give virus protection ability from the client side, and provide a more interactive recovery option.
Is there also any LED to indicate whether the server is in recovery mode or normal mode? It would be nice to say indicate
- Powering up
- Critical failure/cannot connect to clients
- In recovery mode/rebuilding
- Normal operation
- Powering down
You could do it with a pair of lights with solid on and/or flashing sequences - the printers for the ATMs I work on have only 3 lights on them, but they can show over a dozen different conditions just by how the lights are displayed.
Monday, September 10, 2007 8:14 AM