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How do I backup my documents when they are stored on the server RRS feed

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    Hello,

    I moved the My Documents folder from my local machine to WHS so that I can access it from my laptop as well.  This seems to work just fine, with one downfall.  When stored locally, I have backups through time of the My Documents folder, but if it is stored on the server, I just have the current version.  If I accidentally delete or modify a file, it is permanent.  Is there a way to continue to backup the My Documents folder through time, even when it has been moved to the server?

    Maybe a more generic version of the same question... Is there a way to keep backups of the users folders on WHS over time?

    Thank you.

    Miles
    Friday, November 27, 2009 10:50 PM

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    Hello,

    Maybe a more generic version of the same question... Is there a way to keep backups of the users folders on WHS over time?


    Hi,

    WHS does not offer ways to make historical backups of the data in your WHS folders. Also note that even though WHS makes historical backups of the client PC's the purpose of these backups is mostly to enable you to restore the client in case of failure. WHS client backups are not protected by duplication. If any of the servers disk fails you will not lose any data from shared folders having duplication set. However it is very likely that you will lose part (or possibly all) of your client PC backups.

    You can make backups of you WHS folders using the WHS data backup feature. For this you connect an additional disk to your server (preferably externally connected by firewire or USB). Next, from the console storage tab, add it as a server backup disk. You can now backup your WHS shared folder data.
    Repeat this procedure on a regular base and store the backup disk(s) on a safe place. This way you will allways have a copy of your valuable data when something "bad" (like total hardware failure, fire, theft) happens to your server. If you not haven done so allready and value you data: I would strongly advise you to backup your server data as soon as possible.

    Apart from this, I would not use a WHS shared folder as a users Document folder for storing and editing files. The first reason is as you mention (you will not have historical backups). The second reason is that when editing a file stored on WHS it will be locked. As a resulting WHS will not bee able to duplicate the file and possibly generate warning messages on it.

    - Theo.
    No home server like Home Server
    Saturday, November 28, 2009 1:28 PM
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    As an alternate suggestion, keep the "My Documents" folder on your local machine so that you have "Previous Versions" available to you. Place a copy of the folder on your WHS for access from your laptop. Use a file synchronization program like Karen's Replicator or Microsoft SyncToy to automatically synchronize any change (from either location) on a periodic basis. I set up a scheduled task to do this twice daily; 8 AM and 5 PM.

    I've been doing this for several years now (at work with a network file share; not WHS) and have found the method to be 100% reliable. You can change files on your local machine, or on your laptop, and be confident that any change will eventually be copied to both locations. The only pitfall is that if you accidentally delete a file on the WHS there is no Recycle Bin to recover it from, so you have to remember to go back to your local machine and re-copy the file to the network share again before the next automatic synchronization occurs. Then again, if the local machine has Previous Versions available and if it is being backed up by WHS, the chances of losing a file permanently are slim to none.
    Saturday, November 28, 2009 2:13 PM

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    Hello,

    Maybe a more generic version of the same question... Is there a way to keep backups of the users folders on WHS over time?


    Hi,

    WHS does not offer ways to make historical backups of the data in your WHS folders. Also note that even though WHS makes historical backups of the client PC's the purpose of these backups is mostly to enable you to restore the client in case of failure. WHS client backups are not protected by duplication. If any of the servers disk fails you will not lose any data from shared folders having duplication set. However it is very likely that you will lose part (or possibly all) of your client PC backups.

    You can make backups of you WHS folders using the WHS data backup feature. For this you connect an additional disk to your server (preferably externally connected by firewire or USB). Next, from the console storage tab, add it as a server backup disk. You can now backup your WHS shared folder data.
    Repeat this procedure on a regular base and store the backup disk(s) on a safe place. This way you will allways have a copy of your valuable data when something "bad" (like total hardware failure, fire, theft) happens to your server. If you not haven done so allready and value you data: I would strongly advise you to backup your server data as soon as possible.

    Apart from this, I would not use a WHS shared folder as a users Document folder for storing and editing files. The first reason is as you mention (you will not have historical backups). The second reason is that when editing a file stored on WHS it will be locked. As a resulting WHS will not bee able to duplicate the file and possibly generate warning messages on it.

    - Theo.
    No home server like Home Server
    Saturday, November 28, 2009 1:28 PM
    Moderator
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    As an alternate suggestion, keep the "My Documents" folder on your local machine so that you have "Previous Versions" available to you. Place a copy of the folder on your WHS for access from your laptop. Use a file synchronization program like Karen's Replicator or Microsoft SyncToy to automatically synchronize any change (from either location) on a periodic basis. I set up a scheduled task to do this twice daily; 8 AM and 5 PM.

    I've been doing this for several years now (at work with a network file share; not WHS) and have found the method to be 100% reliable. You can change files on your local machine, or on your laptop, and be confident that any change will eventually be copied to both locations. The only pitfall is that if you accidentally delete a file on the WHS there is no Recycle Bin to recover it from, so you have to remember to go back to your local machine and re-copy the file to the network share again before the next automatic synchronization occurs. Then again, if the local machine has Previous Versions available and if it is being backed up by WHS, the chances of losing a file permanently are slim to none.
    Saturday, November 28, 2009 2:13 PM
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    The Server Backup feature actually does keep backups over time. When you add a drive as a server backup drive, and bak up a share to it, Windows Home Server will copy only files that have changed since the last time you backed up to that drive. As long as the previous backup is left on that drive (and it will be left until you explicitly delete it) you have the previous version of that file.

    However, as Theo said, you really shouldn't try to redirect your users' shell folders to your server. it's possible to do so, but users have had problems accessing some file types when stored in a remote shell folder, especially one which is configured to use Offline Files (which you might want to do for a laptop, since it's presumably taken out of the home regularly).

    For more information about the server backup feature, you can consult the help files in the console.
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Saturday, November 28, 2009 2:56 PM
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    Hello,

    Thank you for all of your answers.

    I've thought about using SyncToy or something similar, and this might work just fine, if I can figure out how to schedule it like offline file synchronization.  Is there a way to get it to run when a user logs off?  What about when they lock the computer?  The ability to schedule offline file synchronization this way is a real advantage.

    It really surprises me that redirecting user's folders to WHS is discouraged.  It is based on Windows Server 2003 and surely in a corporate environment, this is a reasonably common practice.  I know it is done where I work.  As for duplicating locked files...  Was shadow copy invented after Windows Server 2003?

    I wasn't looking for this to give me the ability to forever restore old versions of my files.  I was just thinking of a different type of disaster recovery, for example, where I accidentally delete a file.  I wasn't planning on relying on the backups of my computers to be available on WHS indefinitely.  Hopefully, it is unlikely that a hard drive on a computer fails at the same time a drive on the WHS fails.  While I don't currently back up WHS, I do have off site back up for my financial documents, photographs and home videos, which are the only files that cannot be replaced.  Offsite backup is the only way to safeguard against fire, theft, earthquake, etc.

    Thank you again.

    Miles
    Saturday, November 28, 2009 5:08 PM
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    Miles:

    Yes, you can schedule SyncToy to run as a scheduled task. It can then be triggered by any event available to you in the Windows Task Scheduler. The schedulers for Vista and Windows 7 are quite flexible. It's been a while, so I forget what trigger events are available in the XP scheduler.
    Saturday, November 28, 2009 5:19 PM
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    Miles:

    Yes, you can schedule SyncToy to run as a scheduled task. It can then be triggered by any event available to you in the Windows Task Scheduler. The schedulers for Vista and Windows 7 are quite flexible. It's been a while, so I forget what trigger events are available in the XP scheduler.
    There are no triggers in XP.  You have to create your tasks manually (i.e. a batch file), then point the scheduled task to that file.
    Saturday, November 28, 2009 5:36 PM
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    The details aren't really important, but Drive Extender and offline files don't work well together, and as a result some applications can't open files stored in folders on your server and synced using offline files. Add to that the fact that most home computers don't have the professional, enterprise, or ultimate edition of whichever version of Windows they have installed, so they don't support offline files in the first place, and it's something that I wouldn't expect Microsoft to put any effort into. After all, a "corporate environment" is a very different beast from the average "home environment", and Windows Home Server is a "home" product.
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Saturday, November 28, 2009 5:55 PM
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    Well, I have two XP, one Vista, and one 7, so I guess I'm not going to be able to come up with a common solution for all of them.  If only my wife's employer would upgrade their ipsec VPN to work with something other than XP...

    Thank you for your help.

    Miles
    Saturday, November 28, 2009 6:16 PM
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    Well, I have two XP, one Vista, and one 7, so I guess I'm not going to be able to come up with a common solution for all of them.  If only my wife's employer would upgrade their ipsec VPN to work with something other than XP...

    Thank you for your help.

    Miles
    Actually, I should clarify what I said before:  when you create a scheduled task on XP, you can have it run a program by selecting it in the list (assuming that it supports it, I've seen some apps that don't work as expected).  My previous comment was referring more along the lines of how Vista/7 have a bunch of pre-configured event triggers already built-in (i.e. Defrag, WindowsBackup, etc.)  Since you would have to run whatever app you installed on each client anyway, they would all have a common solution (although the setup screens for XP will be different than for Vista/7).
    Saturday, November 28, 2009 7:03 PM
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    Miles:

    I just fired up an XP VM to have a look at XP Task Scheduler. The choices of trigger events are more limited than in Vista/W7 and include Daily, Weekly, Monthly, Once, At System Startup, At Logon, and When idle. On Vista/W7 they include On a schedule, At log on, At startup, On idle, On an event, At task creation/modification, On connection to user session, On disconnect from user session, On workstation lock, and On workstation unlock. The "On an event" is the most versatile since it can be linked to any event that is logged.

    In any event, you should be able to come up with an appropriate trigger event for each OS. The scheduled task itself is just to run the command-line version of SyncToy:

    SyncToyCmd.exe -R

    which will execute all of the synchronization tasks that you have set up in the GUI and are marked as "Run All". The program's help menu includes extensive documentation on how to schedule automatic synchronization.
    Saturday, November 28, 2009 7:21 PM
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    However, as Theo said, you really shouldn't try to redirect your users' shell folders to your server. it's possible to do so, but users have had problems accessing some file types when stored in a remote shell folder, especially one which is configured to use Offline Files (which you might want to do for a laptop, since it's presumably taken out of the home regularly).


    Hello, I was considering to redirect "my documents" to my WHS user share in order to be able to access my documents from all available PC in the house. Mainly using Word and Excel, is there any risk as you mentionned? Could you please elaborate what file types are concerned by that problem?

    Thanks in advance
    Emmanuel
    Monday, February 8, 2010 9:21 AM