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Is Microsoft actally listening to its customers? RRS feed

  • Question

  • Having followed this saga for a while now, it is obvious that the threads in these forums are just going round in circles.  Someone with some clout e.g. Mr Ballmer (sp), within MS needs to be made aware of the anger the companies actions are generating among their genuine customers, who include SysAdmins and people responsible for large IT budgets, which include buying software licences!

    As far as I am aware MS have not made any public statement or apology for all the problems they have caused.  This ranks alongside the Sony rootkit debacle.  MS dont seem to realise that they have shot themselves in the foot bigtime.  The evidence is the number of people and companies on this and other places now considering moving to Linux or something else, other than windows.

    This whole thing seems to be trying to be swept under the rug.  Before I found this forum I had a look at the 'normal' MS newsgroups and could not find any reference to WGA at all!

    Monday, July 3, 2006 1:27 PM

Answers

  •  Ferenc52 wrote:

    Posts are edited; users have been banned. I may be, for this.

     

    Not without reason.

     

    -phil liu

    Tuesday, July 4, 2006 11:52 PM

All replies

  • Obviously Not!
    Monday, July 3, 2006 7:40 PM
  • The best analogy I can come up with is that Microsoft has determined that the solution to finding sex offenders is to require everyone to wear an ankle bracelet tracking their movements. From what I've read, the only "improvement" the latest version of WGA has is that, instead of presuming a user to be guilty each and every time he logs in, it now only presumes his guilt once every two weeks.
    Tuesday, July 4, 2006 3:01 AM
  • NO THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO US. ITS ANNOYING.
    Tuesday, July 4, 2006 4:28 AM
  • 1. The NNTP newsgroups are outside Redmond's control.  They propagate.  That was the old internet.  Welcome to control.  They are in full control here.  Posts are edited; users have been banned. I may be, for this.

    2. I've concluded that Microsoft's solution to the piracy program is to treat all users as though we ran a street stall in Kuala Lumpur.  This offends a great many of us, mightily.

     

    Tuesday, July 4, 2006 2:40 PM
  •  Ferenc52 wrote:

    Posts are edited; users have been banned. I may be, for this.

     

    Not without reason.

     

    -phil liu

    Tuesday, July 4, 2006 11:52 PM
  • It makes perfect sense for Microsoft to ban posters who complain about the forced installation of the WGA Trojan onto customer property.  If they weren't banned, the people behind the curtain in Redmond may actually come to realize that they are screwing up. I doubt there is a single manager left on campus that wants to hear something like that.

     

    Wednesday, July 5, 2006 3:27 PM
  • Microsoft doesn't have to listen to the customer complaints.  Since they are the only viable OS for the mass PC market (exluding those with the training, ability and curiousity to setup and use Linux) there is no other option for those people with a PC.  Sure, they could buy a Mac, but if they have a PC already then that is a much higher expense.

    If Microsoft had real competition then they would start to listen.

    Just my opinion.

    Wednesday, July 5, 2006 8:34 PM
  • Maybe Mr. Jobs will port the MAC OS to generic PC hardware and give Micro$oft a run for the money. The Activation and continued Validations are an insult to honest customers. I am now using Linux and Open Office on almost 80% of my PCs. It's able to do what I need it to do. It's also inexpensive, compared to the Windows option. The initial cost is a download, or if one feels compelled to purchase a distro, it's still less costly. The initial shock to the IT guys will be over and they will find that there is more time to do useful things, rather than chase down WGA tools that need to re-install every two weeks or so.

    Microsoft has slapped me in the face, figuratively speaking. It's an insult to be subjected to this Activation/Verification nonsense. I am deeply offended and am reminded just how much, each time this KB905474 update downloads to install. I fixed the problem. I now use Linux more, and will eventually replace Windows. The Enterprise customers apparently don't have any need to do this, and if they were subjected to it, Micro$oft would lose quite a few of their larger customers. I am against piracy, but more against unreasonable measures to enhance the greed of a large monopoly holding it's customers hostage.

    There is no opening for further discussion. You can flame away, disagree, but you can't deny the facts.

    Thursday, July 6, 2006 4:09 AM
  •  ckamin wrote:

    There is no opening for further discussion. You can flame away, disagree, but you can't deny the facts.

    Well, I distilled all of the hyperbole, conjecture, irrelevancies, asides, and personal prejudices out of your post and the above is what's left.

    Other than ths factual statement, "...you can't deny the facts," there were no facts.

    Friday, July 7, 2006 2:48 AM
  • Dan:

    There are more facts than I would care to post. Get your head out of the sand and look for them on your own. I don't care to spoon feed them to you and you would be in denial anyway. I have looked at the facts and it is actually amazing at just how bad the customer relations with Microsoft has become. I don't need to hear from some obnoxious holier than thou Microsoft hardliner about how wrong I am. I have been working with computers since the dark ages and know a bit about customer service too. I have been offended most recently by one company, and now one particular individual that thinks he owns this forum and is NEVER wrong. There are other opinions than yours, that are just as valid, if not more so.

    http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS5029665134.html

    http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS6544431885.html

    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1766920,00.asp

    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1840634,00.asp

    I have provided a few links to get you started on your quest for the truth. When you have read over 100 articles on the issue, then feel free to post back and question my opinion.

    Friday, July 7, 2006 8:29 PM
  • All:

     

    While we appreciate the feedback, and our entire team (and even executive staff) reads the forum on a DAILY basis - please do not stray too off topic (will clarify below).

     

    We find this type of feedback very useful and we do read and listen intently to customer suggestions. However, this post, I fear, is starting to move toward personal attacks and really digresses from the purpose of postings such as this one. I would rather have meaningful context and conversation than to have to delete a post due to complaints and personal attacks.

     

    Thanks,

    -Phil Liu

    Friday, July 7, 2006 8:37 PM
  •  ckamin wrote:

    Dan:

    There are more facts than I would care to post.

    Can you at least post one?

    You linked to four articles, two of which are from 2005 and are not even remotely pertinent to the discussion.

    The other two are third hand "reporting" of what someone else wrote and not original research, which is normally a component of the "truth."  Not to mention that what is being reported is more of the typical confusion of so-called technology reporters who can't seem to understand that WGA and the Notifications Tool are two separate programs doing two separate jobs.

     ckamin wrote:
      Get your head out of the sand and look for them on your own. I don't care to spoon feed them to you and you would be in denial anyway. I have looked at the facts and it is actually amazing at just how bad the customer relations with Microsoft has become. I don't need to hear from some obnoxious holier than thou Microsoft hardliner about how wrong I am. I have been working with computers since the dark ages and know a bit about customer service too. I have been offended most recently by one company, and now one particular individual that thinks he owns this forum and is NEVER wrong. There are other opinions than yours, that are just as valid, if not more so.

    http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS5029665134.html

    http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS6544431885.html

    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1766920,00.asp

    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1840634,00.asp

    I have provided a few links to get you started on your quest for the truth. When you have read over 100 articles on the issue, then feel free to post back and question my opinion.

    Thanks, but no, thanks, I don't feel a need to question your opinion.  This section of the forum is loaded with uninformed and misinformed opinion, so there's no need for any more.

    Fact?  Well, that's in short supply.

    Saturday, July 8, 2006 4:13 AM
  • Dan,

    I did indeed post a fact. Your head is in the sand or so far up where the sun doesn't shine, you fail to realize you might be wrong on this one. Since you are the self proclaimed "Expert" here, why don't you go ahead and explain the details of EXACTLY what WGA is and does. Exactly what information is sent/retrieved and how often. AND Exactly what "DOES" Microsoft use this information for? If you can't do that, then you have no right to question any one else's opinion on this matter, in this forum.

    I'm also NOT going to do your homework for you. I asked you to read 100 articles on the subject before posting again and you probably didn't even read four. Your attitude is inappropriate for a forum that is geared towards helping Microsoft cutomers and is EXACTLY what the end users are complaining about. Your attitude towards posters in this forum illustrates my point and that of others quite well.

    You did indeed feel the need to question my opinion, otherwise you would not have replied to this post!

    The Misinformed and Uninformed opinion you complained about is indeed a problem and you seem to continue posting here regardless! You have provided quite enough of it, so I guess it's full?

    If Micro$oft is so concerned about it's customers, it would start to treat them better. WGA is only one part of the picture in the entire customer experience. Add it to the rest of Micro$ofts actions and you have a problem. If you can't speak for Micro$oft directly, then you would not speak at all. I am a Micro$oft end user, am tied to several major corporate users, and the customer experience is less than satisfactory. If Micro$oft was indeed actively listening to it's customers, it would respond and not leave it up to broken individuals like yourself.

     

    Saturday, July 8, 2006 6:05 PM
  • Ckamin,

    In this section of the forum called Feedback and Comments, a lot of what is posted is opinion, some of it informed opinion but sadly most of it uninformed or worse, ill-informed.

    I do not agree with you that reading 100 articles about this topic constitutes "homework."  Reading one million articles containing conjecture, misinformation, rumor, and third-hand information is no way to get to the truth.

    Reading just about every post in this forum, all three sections of it, IMO is much more likely to bring one closer to the truth.  So my "homework" assignment for you is to do that---read EVERY post in this forum, all three sections of it.

    And it is a sad commentary on the state of one's conversational and debating skills when one has to resort to such comments as "Your head is in the sand or so far up where the sun doesn't shine" and "and not leave it up to broken individuals like yourself."

     

    Sunday, July 9, 2006 2:50 AM
  • Sadly, in all 3 of these forums no-one from MS is addressing the real concerns of the paying customers. 

    All we are getting are very patronising responses, from people who are not even MS employees.  These people also seem to be saying 'all opinions but mine are in error, and yours is of no value whatsoever'.

    There is a wider world 'out there' and people (customers) talk to each other.  A great many people and colleagues I deal with daily, have expressed concern about Microsofts actions and have asked 'is there another make of operating system we can use instead of windows?' 

    I suppose one could always revert to DOS - non MS of course :-)

    Sunday, July 9, 2006 9:05 AM
  • Technobob:

    There is a decent alternative to Micro$oft. Linux and the associated GNU community. I had stated in an earlier post that I have migrated much of my hardware to that platform. I also use MAC, but the hardware is prohibitively expensive and proprietary in nature, although it is a viable alternative. After a short familiarization with Linux and OpenOffice, you'd be surprised at how easy it is to use and maintain. You can always download or obtain a "Live" disk like Knoppix, Suse, Mandriva One, Ubuntu, Kanotix, Slax, etc. That way you can evaluate the OS and Software without actually installing it to your system. They usually have enough software to do everyday communications and data manipulations/retrievals. All without using Micro$oft products. Many file formats are also compatible with the Micro$oft formats, so there is a chance you can communicate with those in the Micro$oft part of the world. If it is within your own enterprise, it should present no major issues. AND most of the forums are friendly and helpful.

    Phil Liu MSFT:

    I will apologize to you and the other "reasonable" posters on this forum. I do have an issue when someone acts and posts as if this forum is their own territory. Someone took it upon themselves to cut me off at the knees on my "very first post" on this forum. I would expect that I be respected and that my opinion be respected as well. There is someone here actively trying to suppress free thinking and expression and obviously thinks they "Own" the forum. Maybe I would have that attitude after 1000+ posts, but it was uncalled for and rude. That begets a similar response. "Ye shall reap what ye has sown." A wise statement indeed. If you look at my initial post, just what part of it deserved the sort of response it received? Please send this message to the executive staff at Microsoft. They have just lost another long time supporter and customer. I will not use Microsoft products as a first choice now and in the future. The reason? The way they treat their customers! Without us, you are out of business. Everyone that converts to an alternative OS is a loss to Microsoft. Trust is a big issue indeed. It went downhill with product activations and then hit bottom with WGA. Enterprise customers would NOT stand for it, so they are really not subjected to it. Only the retail customers seem to be the target here. You need to fix the problem. Maybe under new leadership, you can move forward and rebuild the consumer confidence that once existed. Listen to the Customers! That is your challenge!

    Dan at IT associates:

    I'm done here. My communication skills are just fine. If you understood my message, then it's a done deal.

    To All:

    I will now unsubscribe from this forum. It's of little help and my first experience here will certainly be my last!

    Sunday, July 9, 2006 10:42 PM