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Shut down clients when auto backup is complete RRS feed

  • Question

  • I'd like to have a feature in further releases that enables the WHS home admin to tell the server to shut the clients down when the auto backups are completed. (just to save power)

     

    now i tried to solve the problem by changing the power settings on one of the clients (i told the system to go to stand-by after 2 hours of inactivity), but the computer didn't go to standby when the backup was completed. (could this be a bug?)

    Saturday, February 24, 2007 3:52 PM

Answers

  • Waking the computer up from Standby (S1 or S3), Hibernation (S4), or Shut down (S5) via a network isn't hard and wouldn't be a problem if the WHS team included Wake-on-Lan ability in WHS.  I started a thread requesting that capability be built into WHS earlier in this forum at

    http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsHomeServer/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1223666&SiteID=50

    Since I didn't get much feedback on that thread (i.e. there is no hope that the feature will be included), I gave up wishing that this ability would be added into WHS and wrote my own program to use with WHS that will send WOL (magic) packets to my computers to wake them up (from any of the power states above).  All I will need to do is schedule WHS to run my program to wake the computers three minutes before the WHS backup begins.  As an aside, since I wrote that program, I added the ability to remotely turn my computers on from any power state, and then start a remote desktop session from ANY (XP or Vista) computer connected to the Internet.  So in the end, I have a program that I carry on my key drive now (which I carry all the time), and all I have to do is run that program on my key drive (requires no installation on the computer) from any Internet connected computer, and I can remotely tell my own computers at home to turn on and start a Remote Desktop session.  So in a bid to add a simple feature to WHS that I really wanted, I ended up nullifying the Remote Desktop feature in WHS that I was initially excited about.

    I also plan to write my own program to shut the computers down after the backup because again, I don't think it is (or will be) included (although I keep my fingers crossed).  However, I am just going to wait until I get WHS to test on for that (I am not in Beta since I don't have any spare computer parts around to use).  Nonetheless, I am with you guys for adding the autoshutdown feature to WHS (it would be great if WHS could turn on all the home computers for a backup, and turn those computers off when the backup is done - I am all about saving power, and if the WHS team doesn't add either of those capabilities, then I will definitely be disappointed - that just leaves extra programming for me to get an otherwise great product to do what I really want, and think it should do)

    Sunday, February 25, 2007 4:31 PM

All replies

  • I came to post the very same thing. When backup completes... could start a visible 5 minute timer to cancel shutdown (in case someone is still using the PC late at night for example) and then if timer expires then it shuts down.
    Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:41 AM
  • i didn't find your thread when i created mine, sorry for posting this again..

    anyway i'm glad i'm not the only one who wants this feature, i hope they put it in the next release

    Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:53 AM
  • Personally, I want my home PCs to go into hibernation after a backup, not shut down. A PC that's shut down completely won't wake up during the next backup period, which will eventually lead to annoying "Network Health" pop-ups. I would prefer to see the PC drop into hibernation after a backup, which I can configure (sort of) through the Power Options Properties dialog. I've done so on my desktop machines, with 2 and 4 hour delays for standby and hibernation. Laptops, of course, normally have power saving enabled already.

    Regardless, this has been bugged on Connect. If you want to have this feature, you should probably vote there.

    --
    Ken Warren
    Sunday, February 25, 2007 1:58 PM
    Moderator
  • Waking the computer up from Standby (S1 or S3), Hibernation (S4), or Shut down (S5) via a network isn't hard and wouldn't be a problem if the WHS team included Wake-on-Lan ability in WHS.  I started a thread requesting that capability be built into WHS earlier in this forum at

    http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsHomeServer/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1223666&SiteID=50

    Since I didn't get much feedback on that thread (i.e. there is no hope that the feature will be included), I gave up wishing that this ability would be added into WHS and wrote my own program to use with WHS that will send WOL (magic) packets to my computers to wake them up (from any of the power states above).  All I will need to do is schedule WHS to run my program to wake the computers three minutes before the WHS backup begins.  As an aside, since I wrote that program, I added the ability to remotely turn my computers on from any power state, and then start a remote desktop session from ANY (XP or Vista) computer connected to the Internet.  So in the end, I have a program that I carry on my key drive now (which I carry all the time), and all I have to do is run that program on my key drive (requires no installation on the computer) from any Internet connected computer, and I can remotely tell my own computers at home to turn on and start a Remote Desktop session.  So in a bid to add a simple feature to WHS that I really wanted, I ended up nullifying the Remote Desktop feature in WHS that I was initially excited about.

    I also plan to write my own program to shut the computers down after the backup because again, I don't think it is (or will be) included (although I keep my fingers crossed).  However, I am just going to wait until I get WHS to test on for that (I am not in Beta since I don't have any spare computer parts around to use).  Nonetheless, I am with you guys for adding the autoshutdown feature to WHS (it would be great if WHS could turn on all the home computers for a backup, and turn those computers off when the backup is done - I am all about saving power, and if the WHS team doesn't add either of those capabilities, then I will definitely be disappointed - that just leaves extra programming for me to get an otherwise great product to do what I really want, and think it should do)

    Sunday, February 25, 2007 4:31 PM
  • thx for supporting this thread.

    i realy hope the WHS programming team makes this possible, my programming skills arn't high engough (yet) to built an app that is can do such things(shutting down, waking up etc)...

    also, WHS will be used by "normal" people, so this includes people who don't know too much about configuring computer, and there will be even more who have no experience at all with servers... that's one of the reasons why i realy want this feature in next releases, WHS will have to be as simple as possible to configure, and all basic things should work perfect, without having to use add-ons or other (third party) software.

    Sunday, February 25, 2007 4:53 PM
  • I would like another way of backup.

    What do you think about backups, initialized by the windows home server connector, when shutting down the computer manually?

    with a status screen with a function to interrupt the backup ( will be helpful, if a restart is needed after installation of something ).

    so this would guarantee an actual backup every time.

    Saturday, March 3, 2007 7:20 AM
  • this is a good idea too

    only this should be an "extra", if this makes it to RTM, since your computer won't be backed up if you don't shut them down manualy.

    Saturday, March 3, 2007 12:33 PM
  • I've been testing WHS for a whole day now and my first impression is that while it's a very nice product, it isn't very 'Green' so to speak. The ability for ALL connected computers AND server to come in/out of hibernation when needed would make this product much more appealing to me and probably many more as well. The idea of having the 5 computers in my household running 24/7 is wasteful in terms of both electical energy and money. Too late for v1 no doubt but a thought for later versions.

    Sunday, March 4, 2007 12:04 AM
  • Your WHS is intended to be an "always on" appliance. Your other PCs can be controlled through the normal Power Settings Control Panel applet. I have mine set to sleep after an hour. I find that sleep draws little enough power to satisfy my Scots ancestry.
    Sunday, March 4, 2007 2:46 AM
    Moderator
  •  Ken Warren wrote:
    Your WHS is intended to be an "always on" appliance. Your other PCs can be controlled through the normal Power Settings Control Panel applet. I have mine set to sleep after an hour. I find that sleep draws little enough power to satisfy my Scots ancestry.

    Hi Ken and thank you for your comment.

    I'm aware it's intended and designed to be an 'always on' appliance. But I also have electrical bills to pay. My Scottish ancestors won't do that. It's the cost of ownership that concerns me and why I submit the suggestion. 

    It is for sure a neat appliance. Obviously the hope is it will be someday a common appliance. But its not a very smart appliance. I can set my car to start automatically anytime of the day to warm itself up for a few minutes when it gets too cold outside and it will do that repeatedly. I can set my home furnace to come on and warm the house up before I get up in the morning and then turn itself down during the day while I'm at work. I can set my coffee maker to come on before I get up and later it will shut off automatically. I can even get my digital camera to come on, meter, focus, take a picture, shut down to save power and repeat the process later at specified intervals. 

    As an appliance I see a lot of potential in it and I'm quite excited about it. As a hobby photographer I like the idea that even when I'm away from home I can access my photos that are not with me. But the idea that this appliance has to be kept 'always on' 24/7 365 days of the year to make if functional when my other seemingly smarter appliances don't isn't that appealing. If I can wake my computer by a movement signal from my mouse, why can't a signal from another computer at home or across the internet do the same thing? Wouldn't it be cool if my server computer, and the computers connected to it, were smarter than my car starter?

    Sunday, March 4, 2007 4:53 PM
  • I have to a gree with Gary here.

    I have recently purchased a pre-built MCE PC after years of building my own, because I could never get the powersaving features to work reliably. Unfotunately the prebuilt mce pc is still not as reliable as I would like at going in and out of hibernation or standby to record etc.

    However this is the ideal as I too am concerned about the amount of electricity my house is using, and that was with a laptop and one MCE PC. Now I am adding a server into the mix, which requires to be left on 24/7. What I do not understand is that if a NAS device can sleep, power down the HD etc, and only wake on lan activity why cant the WHS do the same. I also agree that the WHS should wake if required to perform a backup and be able to wake the MCE PC to back it up and then put it to sleep to.

    Ideally (as discussed in other threads) the WHS should be able to stream and record TV and the MCE simply becomes a Media Center Extender. still thats another topic

    Ash.

    Tuesday, March 6, 2007 11:38 AM
  • Why not try the Shutdown command?

    http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/shutdown.mspx?mfr=true

    This should be present as HS is basically Server 2003.  You could script this to shut down any PC after a specific time.

     

    Wednesday, March 14, 2007 2:57 PM
  • The shutdown command works very well.  I have a scheduled batch file that runs it to shut the server down at night and the bios set to wake it up in the mornings.  Working very well so far.
    Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:23 AM
  •  Noonien Soong wrote:
    The shutdown command works very well.  I have a scheduled batch file that runs it to shut the server down at night and the bios set to wake it up in the mornings.  Working very well so far.

     

    Could you explain in detail how you did this including your scheduled batch file.  Thanks

    Monday, April 9, 2007 11:13 PM
    Moderator
  •  Brian_I wrote:

    Waking the computer up from Standby (S1 or S3), Hibernation (S4), or Shut down (S5) via a network isn't hard and wouldn't be a problem if the WHS team included Wake-on-Lan ability in WHS.  I started a thread requesting that capability be built into WHS earlier in this forum at

    http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsHomeServer/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1223666&SiteID=50

    Since I didn't get much feedback on that thread (i.e. there is no hope that the feature will be included), I gave up wishing that this ability would be added into WHS and wrote my own program to use with WHS that will send WOL (magic) packets to my computers to wake them up (from any of the power states above).  All I will need to do is schedule WHS to run my program to wake the computers three minutes before the WHS backup begins.  As an aside, since I wrote that program, I added the ability to remotely turn my computers on from any power state, and then start a remote desktop session from ANY (XP or Vista) computer connected to the Internet.  So in the end, I have a program that I carry on my key drive now (which I carry all the time), and all I have to do is run that program on my key drive (requires no installation on the computer) from any Internet connected computer, and I can remotely tell my own computers at home to turn on and start a Remote Desktop session.  So in a bid to add a simple feature to WHS that I really wanted, I ended up nullifying the Remote Desktop feature in WHS that I was initially excited about.

    I also plan to write my own program to shut the computers down after the backup because again, I don't think it is (or will be) included (although I keep my fingers crossed).  However, I am just going to wait until I get WHS to test on for that (I am not in Beta since I don't have any spare computer parts around to use).  Nonetheless, I am with you guys for adding the autoshutdown feature to WHS (it would be great if WHS could turn on all the home computers for a backup, and turn those computers off when the backup is done - I am all about saving power, and if the WHS team doesn't add either of those capabilities, then I will definitely be disappointed - that just leaves extra programming for me to get an otherwise great product to do what I really want, and think it should do)

     

    Any chance I could have a copy of your program, as it is just the thing I am after for my PC's.

    Monday, April 9, 2007 11:16 PM
    Moderator
  •  zentaur1ger wrote:

    I would like another way of backup.

    What do you think about backups, initialized by the windows home server connector, when shutting down the computer manually?

    with a status screen with a function to interrupt the backup ( will be helpful, if a restart is needed after installation of something ).

    so this would guarantee an actual backup every time.

     

    Now THAT would be a killer app  voor WHS! Really, that would make great extra benefit for using a Windows (XP or Vista) and WHS combination.

     

    Regards, Robin.

    Friday, June 22, 2007 8:45 PM
  •  

    Is it possible to WOL from off? not just hybernate. I would also like to turn the system off when backup complete.

     

    What would be nice. Is if the computer was in hybernate, go back to hybernate. If system was off go back to off, If system suspend go back in suspend.

    Monday, January 7, 2008 4:51 PM
  • Hi,

    No, it isn't possible to Wake a computer from off, it has to be either hibernating, or sleeping.

    The Connector software, in theory, has no control over how the client is set up. It's a function of your operating system/computer BIOS etc. What should happen, is, if the computer is hibernating or sleeping, then WHS will wake it up, do it's backup and then return it to whatever state it woke it from. There are quite a few problems with some people's systems not doing it, but I think the majority of computers operate correctly.

     

    Colin

    Monday, January 7, 2008 5:42 PM
  • Actually it is possible to configure the system's Wake-On-LAN feature to power a computer up from 'off' / S5 if your motherboard supports this.  However it can be tricky to do depending on the equipment in your home network - if the Wake-On-LAN packet is broadcast to the subnet you should be fine, however if you're sending the packet remotely across the Internet you need to configure your broadband router so that it can resolve the IP address you're port forwarding to, to a MAC address. In most cases the web administration pages of your router won't give you this level of control.  After a period of being off your router will flush your computer's MAC address from it's ARP table; so the only way to get round it is to create a static ARP entry, or be lucky enough to have a router that can port forward UDP to your homenetwork's subnet.

    To summarise I have two WHS issues which I've worked around:

    1. WHS likes to wake itself up from standby/hibernation every 20-30 minutes - so I can't for instance have my WHS sleep from 9am to 5pm when most of the family are out.

    2. The connector software dutifully wakes up the client computers to perform backups but doesn't put them to sleep again when done.

    My workaround was as follows:

    - I created a static ARP entry by telneting into my Speedtouch broadband router (once setup I never have to think of it again); I wrote a web application running remotely which essentially sends a wake-on-lan packet to WHS (and my other computers if desired) at a predefined time each day of the week.  I have a second application (an NT service) which runs on both WHS and my client computers.  This service listens for a shutdown event, also sent from the remote application allowing each computer (including WHS) to determine when to initiate a shutdown or transition to standby/hibernation.  With these two basic signals I'm able to manage when my WHS and computers are running and when they're not.  Typically I power up my WHS at 5pm and leave it running until 9am the following day; I also have the option of powering it up at any time remotely on the rare occasion I need a file etc. while I'm at work.

    - My service also performs a secondary 'standalone' function, running on each client computer, it is able to tell when a back up has successfully completed and whether the computer was asleep prior to that (woken up to perform a backup); in which case it transitions the client computer back into a sleep state.

    I wish I didn't have to engineer these workarounds, perhaps Power Pack 1 will go some way to addressing these issues, then again perhaps not...

    Albert
    runtime360.com/blog
    Monday, January 7, 2008 9:05 PM