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Is 20Gig enough? RRS feed

  • Question

  • I tried to resize my C:\ partition because I'm trying to see if I can add HTPC and home automation to WHS and I wanted more free space. Technically I could fit everything that I wanted to install (for now) but I like to have more free space than I was left with. Resizing caused problems and soon, I'll need to re-install one of my WHS servers.

    I'm sure I've read threads where some people thought that 20G was even too much, to each their own. However, "to each their own" is exactly the problem, for enthusiasts like me because I can't do anything different. If people want a 10G partition that should be an option just as 20G, 40G or even 100G should be an option. I searched dell.com, the smallest SCSI drive they sell is 36G and the smallest notebook hard drive is 80G, with desktop and server SATA drives being even larger yet WHS forces the size of the C drive to 20G. It's just too small, IMHO. While 10G or 20G may work for most people, if WHS is also targeting the "Sam persona" (enthusiasts/geeks) we need more flexibility. How do you expect developers to develop if we don't have any options to do the things we want to try? Additionally, since the people that buy WHS pre-installed won't be installing it themselves, the drives could be kept smaller in that instance, but when a geek like me wants to develop something bigger, we may need more resources. I know I do.

    One of the devs said they wanted to control the environment but I'm asking for more flexibility. Somebody asked to be able to devote an entire drive to C, if you had multiple drives, and that'd be good suggestion too. If you want *some* control, instead of the installers being able to pick ANY number, how about the options of 10/20/40/80/100G, depending on drive size? A 1T drive with a 20G C drive and a 980G D drive seems silly, let us pick larger partitions. If you have to pick ONE number, at least make it 40G so the geeks and enthusiasts can play too.

    Unfortunately, the more I play with WHS the more it seems like Macintosh for PC, aimed at idiots. Can't really tweak much and development is limited. You claim that Sam is part of the target market but you really don't throw us many bones. You take away options and throw away they key, limiting us at every turn. I'm glad that WHS is changing the password strength story (not soon enough, imho) but I certainly hope they give those of us that are actually *doing* the WHS installs a little more flexibility in partition sizes too.


    That's my 2 cents...and I expect change. Wink

    Friday, July 6, 2007 4:23 AM

Answers

  • selectable partition size is a good option, even having one drive as a dedicated OS dirve should be an option, imo.

     

    Until (and IF) that happens, there are work-arounds, for the SAM types, adding another hard drive as a directory under drive management.  (before I reformatted, I had a small system partition for the OS, that soon ran out of space as with my kids using the computer... so I had to be inventive, or reinstall/repartition... I was lazy so I had wierd partitions attached to my cBig Smilerive which was a nightmare after awhile, but usable. 

    Friday, July 6, 2007 6:11 PM
  •  jstueve wrote:

    selectable partition size is a good option, even having one drive as a dedicated OS dirve should be an option, imo.

    Until (and IF) that happens, there are work-arounds, for the SAM types, adding another hard drive as a directory under drive management. (before I reformatted, I had a small system partition for the OS, that soon ran out of space as with my kids using the computer... so I had to be inventive, or reinstall/repartition... I was lazy so I had wierd partitions attached to my crive which was a nightmare after awhile, but usable.



    I agree that both are good options but I'd even settle for a few options or double the current limit.

    I haven't given up yet, my next attempt (after I build a slipstreamed DVD) will be to build it as default, use Ghost to back up each partition and then format the drive the way I want it and restore using the ghost images. I could add a hard drive, as a directory but I'm hoping for a better solution. Wink

    Friday, July 6, 2007 6:42 PM
  • If you want to resize the partition the best time to do it is between the Textmode stage and the GUI stage of the setup.
    Friday, July 6, 2007 10:20 PM
  • I agree, you should be given the option set the size of the C: partition, min 20GB and up.

     

    Have you looked at dynamic disks and mount point/volumes?

     

     

    Saturday, July 7, 2007 7:53 PM
  •  VSawler wrote:

    I agree, you should be given the option set the size of the C: partition, min 20GB and up.

    Have you looked at dynamic disks and mount point/volumes?



    Indeed, we should have options.

    It's been suggested, twice, to use another hard drive to expand or supplement the C drive but I have to reject that idea because my C drive is on a 4 drive RAID5 array and I don't want to mix a slower drive with the faster array for installed programs.

    Luckily, I have managed to resize the C and D drives to give me the space I need. It took several hours to complete but it did work and I've only found one minor bug, so far. The WHS Console still reports 20G for the system drive and it doesn't notice the missing 80G from D so I'll have to pay attention to free space. That isn't a problem because, as I said, I like to keep *plenty* of free space on my machines so they're never very full. I didn't interrupt the install (maybe I should have) as suggested by one posters, I resized after. I'm almost tempted to try again but since it was such a PITA to get this machine resized and running I may not bother until I have to re-install.

    Perhaps we'll have more options by then but I'm not holding my breath. I don't think they care about "Sam" as much as they claim. *shrug*

    Saturday, July 7, 2007 8:19 PM
  •  Joel Burt wrote:
    I'd be interested in seeing what happens during a "Server Reinstallation" after your partition size increase.

     

    I tried a reinstall with a 40GB system partition. It worked perfectly. A reinstall doesn't touch the MBR, it just reformats the system partition and reinstalls. Next I'll try with a smaller partition.

    Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:25 PM

All replies

  • I see what you are saying, but I think 20 gigs is OK, even for trying to adding HTPC or home automation to WHS.
    For adding HTPC, the media (Recorded TV, music, Pictures, dvds) can be on data D:\ drive in the shared folders, and just load the apps on C:\ drive.
    Friday, July 6, 2007 4:06 PM
  • If 20G works for you, have at it. You have no idea what I'm doing other than the generic terms HTPC and home automation, I had installed some of the desired SW but I was down to under 5G free and I prefer more freespace than that. That is all programs on the C drive, it included no media data. I know what I'm doing, I just want more space.
    Friday, July 6, 2007 5:36 PM
  • selectable partition size is a good option, even having one drive as a dedicated OS dirve should be an option, imo.

     

    Until (and IF) that happens, there are work-arounds, for the SAM types, adding another hard drive as a directory under drive management.  (before I reformatted, I had a small system partition for the OS, that soon ran out of space as with my kids using the computer... so I had to be inventive, or reinstall/repartition... I was lazy so I had wierd partitions attached to my cBig Smilerive which was a nightmare after awhile, but usable. 

    Friday, July 6, 2007 6:11 PM
  •  SME wrote:
    . You have no idea what I'm doing other than the generic terms HTPC

    I have some idea what you are doing (I'am MCE MVP)  Smile, just surprised you would have only 5 gigs remaining on the C:\ drive, if thats the case then yes larger partition would be needed.

     

    Friday, July 6, 2007 6:41 PM
  •  jstueve wrote:

    selectable partition size is a good option, even having one drive as a dedicated OS dirve should be an option, imo.

    Until (and IF) that happens, there are work-arounds, for the SAM types, adding another hard drive as a directory under drive management. (before I reformatted, I had a small system partition for the OS, that soon ran out of space as with my kids using the computer... so I had to be inventive, or reinstall/repartition... I was lazy so I had wierd partitions attached to my crive which was a nightmare after awhile, but usable.



    I agree that both are good options but I'd even settle for a few options or double the current limit.

    I haven't given up yet, my next attempt (after I build a slipstreamed DVD) will be to build it as default, use Ghost to back up each partition and then format the drive the way I want it and restore using the ghost images. I could add a hard drive, as a directory but I'm hoping for a better solution. Wink

    Friday, July 6, 2007 6:42 PM
  • SME I had a problem installing RC1(fixed now), but this problem may help you, the problem was with the partition on C:\ drive RC1 sould have 20gigs (as already you know) but C:\ did not partition on install it stayed at 10 gigs but it was showing the new build number for RC1.

    So this is a long shot, try to make the C:\ partition larger then reinstall not a clean install but a reinstall of WHS, see if WHS RC1 installs and keeps the larger partition.

     

    Friday, July 6, 2007 6:58 PM
  •  Richard A Miller wrote:

    SME wrote:
    . You have no idea what I'm doing other than the generic terms HTPC

    I have some idea what you are doing (I'am MCE MVP) , just surprised you would have only 5 gigs remaining on the C:\ drive, if thats the case then yes larger partition would be needed.



    Well, I'm doing things differently, MCE has nothing to do with it, and I haven't given details, intentionally. It's really a bit more than *just* HTPC and home automation, in fact, I haven't even gotten to the home automation part yet so I know I'll want more space than 20G. Maybe calling it a Home Entertainment Server would be more accurate, for now. I'm not sure what it'll be called, if I can ever make space enough to build it. Unfortunately, I may end up using another OS. Like I said, WHS is more MAC like (not a compliment), than I prefer. I like a little control and flexibility.

    It's a shame they feel the need to treat the "Sams" like "Peters" (no pun intended) by locking us out of options that we need as enthusiasts/geeks. Since Sam will be doing the installing and Peter the buying, it shouldn't be hard to give Sam a little slack in the background.



     Richard A Miller wrote:

    SME I had a problem installing RC1(fixed now), but this problem may help you, the problem was with the partition on C:\ drive RC1 sould have 20gigs (as already you know) but C:\ did not partition on install it stayed at 10 gigs but it was showing the new build number for RC1.

    So this is a long shot, try to make the C:\ partition larger then reinstall not a clean install but a reinstall of WHS, see if WHS RC1 installs and keeps the larger partition.



    I was told that re-installing would resize the C drive to 20 again. *shrug*

    Friday, July 6, 2007 7:02 PM
  • SME A clean install will give you 20 gigs, but when I first installed RC1 it only gave me 10gigs it did not partition the C:\ drive I have no idea why.
    Good luck I hope you get it to work,
    Friday, July 6, 2007 7:43 PM
  • I was told that a re-install would reset it too, the clean install is how I got 20G to start with, it just wasn't enough. How you only got 10, I have no idea. I haven't given up...yet. Wink

    Friday, July 6, 2007 8:03 PM
  • Are you working with Cubytes on his "new" system?????

     

    Seriously though, what if you added another drive to the system, but not to the storage pool?  I could be wrong, but I assume it would show up as the E:\ drive.  Could you install your software to that drive or does it have to reside on the system drive partition?

    Friday, July 6, 2007 9:44 PM
  •  Buzz wrote:

    Are you working with Cubytes on his "new" system?????

    Seriously though, what if you added another drive to the system, but not to the storage pool? I could be wrong, but I assume it would show up as the E:\ drive. Could you install your software to that drive or does it have to reside on the system drive partition?



    No, my applications actually exist. This isn't something I just pulled from my rear. I had some of it working, I just killed WHS trying to resize it. Wink

    I've already said that I could add another drive but since C is on a 4x250G SATA RAID5 array, it's faster if I could just pick something more appropriate to my needs rather than use a slower drive for some installed programs.
    Friday, July 6, 2007 10:03 PM
  • If you want to resize the partition the best time to do it is between the Textmode stage and the GUI stage of the setup.
    Friday, July 6, 2007 10:20 PM
  •  Bezalel Geretz wrote:
    If you want to resize the partition the best time to do it is between the Textmode stage and the GUI stage of the setup.


    Interesting, I never thought about interrupting the install to resize. Have you done this on WHS already?

    Friday, July 6, 2007 10:25 PM
  •  SME wrote:
     Bezalel Geretz wrote:
    If you want to resize the partition the best time to do it is between the Textmode stage and the GUI stage of the setup.



    Interesting, I never thought about interrupting the install to resize. Have you done this on WHS already?

    I've interrupted setup before the Textmode stage, examined the contents if the hard drive and then built an unattended DVD that would boot directly into windows setup, eliminating the need for the PE stage. This also allows me to customize windows before it is installed. (Most of this work was done while I was attempting to install WHS on a Dell PowerVault 715N)

    Friday, July 6, 2007 10:45 PM
  • I still may have to give that a try. I'm building a slipstreamed DVD as we speak but not a true unattended install, just drivers and hotfixes with a few tweaks.

    Friday, July 6, 2007 11:35 PM
  • I agree, you should be given the option set the size of the C: partition, min 20GB and up.

     

    Have you looked at dynamic disks and mount point/volumes?

     

     

    Saturday, July 7, 2007 7:53 PM
  •  VSawler wrote:

    I agree, you should be given the option set the size of the C: partition, min 20GB and up.

    Have you looked at dynamic disks and mount point/volumes?



    Indeed, we should have options.

    It's been suggested, twice, to use another hard drive to expand or supplement the C drive but I have to reject that idea because my C drive is on a 4 drive RAID5 array and I don't want to mix a slower drive with the faster array for installed programs.

    Luckily, I have managed to resize the C and D drives to give me the space I need. It took several hours to complete but it did work and I've only found one minor bug, so far. The WHS Console still reports 20G for the system drive and it doesn't notice the missing 80G from D so I'll have to pay attention to free space. That isn't a problem because, as I said, I like to keep *plenty* of free space on my machines so they're never very full. I didn't interrupt the install (maybe I should have) as suggested by one posters, I resized after. I'm almost tempted to try again but since it was such a PITA to get this machine resized and running I may not bother until I have to re-install.

    Perhaps we'll have more options by then but I'm not holding my breath. I don't think they care about "Sam" as much as they claim. *shrug*

    Saturday, July 7, 2007 8:19 PM
  • I'd be interested in seeing what happens during a "Server Reinstallation" after your partition size increase.
    Friday, July 13, 2007 10:25 PM
    Moderator
  •  Joel Burt wrote:
    I'd be interested in seeing what happens during a "Server Reinstallation" after your partition size increase.


    If WHS allowed an inplace upgrade, or supported other sizes than 20G, it might be OK but I'm pretty sure it'd hose my resize. That's what I was told anyway.
    Friday, July 13, 2007 11:08 PM
  • What is unclear to me is why WHS requires 80 GB to install in the first place if it will run just fine on 20 GB and utilizing slave \ secondary for data backup storage.
    Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:20 PM
  •  undelay wrote:
    What is unclear to me is why WHS requires 80 GB to install in the first place if it will run just fine on 20 GB and utilizing slave \ secondary for data backup storage.

    I guess they needed to use partitions, on one drive, in order to support one-drive installs. I think it should be an option to install C on it's own drive, if you have multiple drives but I can see the need to support single drive installs too.

    While completely unsupported, it may be possible to use something similar to the resize operation to move the data to separate drives. It may not work, at all, and it'd have to be done earlier in the install process than a more simple resize if it were to have any chance. I've been thinking about it but I'm not sure that I want to attempt it because it just seems like too much trouble for not a lot of pay-off, imo.

    Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:40 PM
  • Relying on a single drive for the OS and backup partitions is irresponsible. Reminds me of the cookie cutter XP \ Vista systems with minimum RAM.
    Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:45 PM
  •  undelay wrote:
    Relying on a single drive for the OS and backup partitions is irresponsible. Reminds me of the cookie cutter XP \ Vista systems with minimum RAM.


    Relying on one drive *isn't* recommended but they have to set minumum specs somewhere. The PDF that comes with the RC package not only lists minimum specs, it also lists recommended specs too.

    Monday, July 16, 2007 12:03 AM
  • Since RTM has shipped, I assume that we're still stuck with the 20G hard limit? Unfortunately, since resizing is still unsupported, that's a big red flag for my use, I need more than 20G. Sad

    Monday, July 16, 2007 7:45 PM
  •  Joel Burt wrote:
    I'd be interested in seeing what happens during a "Server Reinstallation" after your partition size increase.

     

    I tried a reinstall with a 40GB system partition. It worked perfectly. A reinstall doesn't touch the MBR, it just reformats the system partition and reinstalls. Next I'll try with a smaller partition.

    Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:25 PM
  •  Bezalel Geretz wrote:

    Joel Burt wrote:
    I'd be interested in seeing what happens during a "Server Reinstallation" after your partition size increase.

    I tried a reinstall with a 40GB system partition. It worked perfectly. A reinstall doesn't touch the MBR, it just reformats the system partition and reinstalls. Next I'll try with a smaller partition.


    Good info...

    Does the WHS console still report 20G for the system drive and does free space now report correctly?

    Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:59 PM
  •  SME wrote:
     Bezalel Geretz wrote:

    Joel Burt wrote:
    I'd be interested in seeing what happens during a "Server Reinstallation" after your partition size increase.

    I tried a reinstall with a 40GB system partition. It worked perfectly. A reinstall doesn't touch the MBR, it just reformats the system partition and reinstalls. Next I'll try with a smaller partition.


    Good info...

    Does the WHS console still report 20G for the system drive and does free space now report correctly?

     

    It reports 40GB. My method changes the partition size before the WHS software is installed so there is nothing to confuse the software.

    Thursday, July 19, 2007 2:39 AM
  • That's actually good to know, a server re-install should fix those values for my resized drive too then. I thought that 20G value might have been hard coded into the WHS console too. Nice.


    Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:35 AM
  •  Bezalel Geretz wrote:

     Joel Burt wrote:
    I'd be interested in seeing what happens during a "Server Reinstallation" after your partition size increase.

     

    I tried a reinstall with a 40GB system partition. It worked perfectly. A reinstall doesn't touch the MBR, it just reformats the system partition and reinstalls. Next I'll try with a smaller partition.

     

    I tried with a 15GB partition and this time I only got the option to do a new install.

    Sunday, July 22, 2007 8:58 PM
  •  Bezalel Geretz wrote:
     Bezalel Geretz wrote:

     Joel Burt wrote:
    I'd be interested in seeing what happens during a "Server Reinstallation" after your partition size increase.

     

    I tried a reinstall with a 40GB system partition. It worked perfectly. A reinstall doesn't touch the MBR, it just reformats the system partition and reinstalls. Next I'll try with a smaller partition.

     

    I tried with a 15GB partition and this time I only got the option to do a new install.



    I've broken my array and clean installed using the resized 320G (C is now ~70G) as the system drive and the 4x250G in the pool, all in IDE mode, not RAID and not AHCI. The install, of course, needed no storage drivers and the resize went quicker than resizing the former array. I did interupt the install, after the textmode portion while installing win2k3sbs, to do the resize, and all values report correctly after. Additionally, balancing seems to be quicker in this configuration. I'll need to update the tutorial to reflect the updated information, eventually.

    I still hope that MS seriously considers giving us system builders the choice of system drive sizes (even a dedicated C drive if there are multiple drives detected) or at least the option to double it to 40G.
    Wednesday, August 1, 2007 10:48 PM