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OneCare Warning - Serious Quality Issues RRS feed

  • General discussion

  • Windows Live OneCare is in serious trouble.

     

    My first year of service worked well.  My second year of service has me very concerned.  The problems generally fall into three categories.  OneCare appears to turn off the local firewall.  OneCare won't update itself.  OneCare clocks the CPU near 100%.

     

    The solutions should give everyone at Microsoft chills.  A 'Firewall Fixer' download?  A 'OneCare Cleaner' download?  A 'fix it' button?  Turning off multiple services manually because they interfere with OneCare?  People on these forums are pleading for help!  There are regular end users that don't know what an INF file is - only that a big RED icon in the bottom right hand corner is bad.  You are messing with people's sense of security.  OneCare is suppose to keep us safe, not raise incorrect warnings about problems created by Microsoft itself.

     

    I eventually conceded that the only solution on my XP machine was a complete reinstall.  All of the endless fixer programs and fix it buttons and reboots did nothing except waste my time.  My Vista machine has the same problem, and I know the only way I'll get OneCare to stop complaining about not being up to date is a complete reinstall.  And yet, a few months ago, in November/December, I did a reinstall, for the same reason.  How many times do I need to reinstall this product?

     

    And so here is the message:  Microsoft, there are serious problems with OneCare.  When you need to start shipping utilities to take care of a program that is suppose to be taking care of your customers computers, something is seriously wrong.  And I'm paying for this!  I can't bare yet another reinstall.  Frankly, I'd rather look at the red icon and hope it goes away some day.

     

    Here is a suggestion: make your product free again until it actually works.  Stop working on feature changes and enhancements until you have something that is rock solid.  Acknowledge publically that there is a problem that is getting your serious and significant attention.  Apologize to your customers.  Help Stephen out on this forum - help the people out there that don't understand why there is a big RED icon starting at them.  Stop with the fixer programs that rarely work and waste everyone's time.  Ship products that work, and if they don't work - fix them directly!  Use your update network to send out the fixes, the same way everything else gets fixed.

     

    Thank you for listening.

    Tuesday, March 4, 2008 3:54 AM

All replies

  • Jeff,

     

    Though I understand your concern with these issues, you need to realize that literally millions of users don't have these problems at all. What that means is that something specific to your PC is causing them, though obviously a few others have similar issues. The unfortunate thing is that though the symptoms are the same or similar, the actual cause may be completely different.

     

    I didn't look around for any other posts you've made here in an attempt to fix this, but if you haven't worked with support to this point you should at least give it a try. If you have, ask if the issue can be escalated and reference any earlier support tickets you've opened to attempt to fix it.

     

    I find the best way to deal with such long term issues is via email support, since I can do it whenever I have time, avoid timing issues and missed calls and always have a record of both sides of the converstation I can refer to and resend if required.

     

    What you've described in your last sentence is exactly how OneCare works, but until a specific issue causing the symptoms is discovered, no update can be sent out. The largest problem with the release of the update to 2.0 appears to be that not enough users with different PCs and/or software where involved in the beta, so more of these issues were missed on less common configurations.

     

    Note that I'm not saying there's no problem here, but I am stating that without at least a few user's direct involvement in support incidents, they are unlikely to be fixed. No beta can ever detect all possible combinations of hardware/software or catch all bugs unless absoulely every user of the product is involved in that beta.

     

    OneCareBear

    Thursday, March 6, 2008 4:46 PM
    Moderator
  • OneCareBear,

     

    While I am sure that millions of users do not have these problems, quite a few factors point to a more severe problem beyond a few exception cases: the tools on Microsoft download, the volume of posts both here and on blogs around the world, and the sticky posts in these forums are all examples.

     

    I suspect there are other signs that I don't have access to.  For example: the number of downloads of the firewall fix tool.  I would expect to see a significant jump in the number of support cases opened as of last November, with no significant decrease in that volume.  If I had access to this informaiton, I would expect to see more clear signs of a quality issue.

     

    I posted because I think Microsoft needs to do more here.  I'm not asking for help specifically for the problems that I have, though I appreciate your suggestions.  Through many hours of troubleshooting, I know I can make the symptoms I have go away by reinstalling.

     

    To your point about how OneCare works.  Can you name another Microsoft program that has a "Fix It" button?  That leaves a big red icon in your system tray if it needs a patch?  The experience with OneCare is fundementally different than other Microsoft programs, and I think that is a problem.

     

    Just last night I needed to VPN into my office from my Vista machine, and it wouldn't work.  It works from my other two machines, so I knew the problem was with my Vista box.  I eventually figured out that the issue was with OneCare - VPN access wasn't enabled.  Why couldn't OneCare tell me that?  Vista doesn't know that OneCare exists.  All Vista knows is that its firewall is turned off, and therefore if the VPN doesn't work, it can't be a Vista firewall issue.  OneCare doesn't know that it should ask the user if they want to enable the VPN feature, given the fact that they are trying to VPN somewhere (or at least, it didn't ask me).  Regular users can't figure this stuff out... it is too hard.  OneCare isn't finished.

     

    If Microsoft wants a direct involvement to address issues, and if they were isloated, then Microsoft would not issue blanket programs that attempt to fix specific problems.  Instead they would want those customers to call them so they could go through a discovery process.  Customers would do what ever other product requires: call Microsoft, open a SRX, explain the problem, and if there is a fix for that specific problem that hasn't been rolled up into a service pack, be provided with instructions for downloading and installing it.

     

    Thank you for responding.  I only ask that this perspective get back to the Product Manager that owns LiveCare - I'm just saying 'hey, you've got a serious quality problem that needs a proactive solution that is beyond what you're doing right now'. 

     

    This isn't the only area where Microosft has a qualilty concern.  There has been press around Microsoft Home Server, and how it corrupts files.  Around the Vista SP1 update process and how some computers ended up in an endless reboot cycle.  Around Vista itself.  The list goes on.  Thankfully, the press haven't latched onto OneCare that I know of.

     

    This post turned out to be long and rambling... and I apologize for that.  I am passionate about Microsoft being successful, and I think the product management team needs to adjust their approach.  I thought I would invest some time to make that point.

     

    -Jeff

    Thursday, March 6, 2008 5:27 PM
  • Jeff,

     

    I am that end user you are describing.  I currently have a message telling me I am in need of an Urgent Update to my virus and spyware protection.  When I click the update button, nothing happens.  This kind of situation has happened to me for the past year.  Then, in a couple of weeks, it is as if the "update" finally comes and the Urgent Action to be taken goes away.  I have emailed technical support as OneCareBear has suggested and received no responses.

     

    As a way of another example of end user frustration with the big red icon at the bottom of my computer screen:  For a month OneCare informed me I needed to renew my subscription.  I would click the button to sign back up for this poor service and be taken to a screen that informed me OneCare was unable to perform my request.  I was without OneCare "protection" for an entire month before the Subscription renewel actually worked.  Once again, there was an icon I could click to tell customer support of the issue I was facing, and I clicked it -- but did I get a response, NO!.

     

    I have no idea what all those letters (VPN, SRX) you typed meant, but I am that stupid end user that is very frustrated with OneCare.  I am seriously considering switching virus and spyware protection next year.

     

    I have never been to this forum before, but I was willing to read anything that might help me solve my current situation.  Based on your message and OneCareBear's response, I have very little hope.

     

    Jeff, thank you for expressing in a more concise and technical manner what I am feeling.

    Friday, March 7, 2008 1:56 PM
  • Let me tell my story and maybe it will clear up why OneCare is going down the tubes.

     

    I used version 1.6 for over a year and had no problems whatsoever.

     

    OneCare has not been starting automatically at bootup for me since I received the update to 2.0 on Dec. 3, 2007. There were also a load of other problems at first but that is the main one that remains. I have been given every instruction imaginable by "support" and have detailed that monumental waste of time on this forum. They have not responded to emails at every level yet suddenly can receive them again when exposed here. They have given instructions that have made the issues worse. They have given those same instructions more than once. I was finally told I would be contacted by the head of the OneCare development team. After not contacting me at the first time he scheduled, he called me the next day and attempted to etablish a remote session and couldn't even make that work properly. After telling me that he had not seen my exact problem before (OneCare does not start automatically about one third of the time, giving no warning whatsoever of its status and must be started manually) he lost interest at exactly five o'clock his time. Quitting time, I guess. I was told that I would be contacted if they needed to do another remote session (hah!) and have not heard from him since. One would think that the head of the OneCare team might be interested in getting to the bottom of problems he has not seen before, but I guess not.

     

    The update to version .22 that was later released did not fix this issue or any other I have been experiencing. Surprise, surprise!

     

    Oh, he gave me a code for a free year of OneCare (ooooooh, aaaaaaah) but I don't want to use it because I'm worried that it will end up causing one of the "expired subscription" problems that have been all over this forum for months. 

     

    The fish rots from the head first. Add to that programming that is outsourced to the absolute lowest bidder on the other side of the world and released without sufficient testing. Mix with these a support system that can't work properly when the program is malfunctioning. I don't think the "OneCare team" really understands the pile of spaghetti that they have created. If they did they would have fixed it by now. They haven't even posted to their own blog (which is filled with complaints, as well) in months. They haven't even responded to the moderators questions in this forum after many weeks.

     

    The ONLY way to get a response from anyone at Microsoft is to get the press to question them. They do not respond to lowly beings such as paying customers. It should be a huge embarrassment to Microsoft that after months of trying they cannot produce a security program for their own operating system that doesn't require constant troubleshooting by the user.

    Friday, March 7, 2008 4:15 PM
  •  9Scott20 wrote:

    Jeff,

     

    I am that end user you are describing.  I currently have a message telling me I am in need of an Urgent Update to my virus and spyware protection.  When I click the update button, nothing happens.  This kind of situation has happened to me for the past year.  Then, in a couple of weeks, it is as if the "update" finally comes and the Urgent Action to be taken goes away.  I have emailed technical support as OneCareBear has suggested and received no responses.

     

    As a way of another example of end user frustration with the big red icon at the bottom of my computer screen:  For a month OneCare informed me I needed to renew my subscription.  I would click the button to sign back up for this poor service and be taken to a screen that informed me OneCare was unable to perform my request.  I was without OneCare "protection" for an entire month before the Subscription renewel actually worked.  Once again, there was an icon I could click to tell customer support of the issue I was facing, and I clicked it -- but did I get a response, NO!.

     

    I have no idea what all those letters (VPN, SRX) you typed meant, but I am that stupid end user that is very frustrated with OneCare.  I am seriously considering switching virus and spyware protection next year.

     

    I have never been to this forum before, but I was willing to read anything that might help me solve my current situation.  Based on your message and OneCareBear's response, I have very little hope.

     

    Jeff, thank you for expressing in a more concise and technical manner what I am feeling.

    Friday, March 14, 2008 11:08 PM
  • THIS IS MY FIRST TIME FINALLY GETTING THRU TO SOMEONE, I HOPE I DO.  I AGREE WITH ALL OF THE FRUSTRATED AND FINALLY FINISHED WITH ONE CARE FOLKS OUT THERE.  I KEEP SEEING THE RED ICON ALSO AND WHEN I TRY TO GO TO ONE CARES SITE, I GET AN ERROR MESSAGE TO SEND OR DONT SEND TO MICROSOFT. OF COURSE I SEND IT EVERY TIME TO NO AVAIL.  WHAT THE HE-- IS GOING ON AND WHEN SHOULD WE EXPECT A REFUND CHECK?  VERY DILIGENTLY SEEKING LEGAL REPRESENTATION AND I HOPE FOR ONE CARE'S SAKE, I DON'T LOSE IMPORTANT DATA OVER THIS THING THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR WAY WAY TOO LONG NOW.  THANKS, JUST WAITING FOR AN ANSWER!!!!!!!

    Friday, March 14, 2008 11:13 PM
  • SOMEONE SAID THE ONLY WAY TO GET THRU TO MICROSOFT WAS TO CONTACT THE PRESS.  WELL WATCH THE NEWS THEN BECAUSE I PLAN ON CONTACTING THEM ASAP AND GET SOMETHING STARTED.  I HAVE HAD WAY TOO MUCH ALREADY!!!

    Friday, March 14, 2008 11:16 PM
  •  Frustrated212 wrote:

    THIS IS MY FIRST TIME FINALLY GETTING THRU TO SOMEONE, I HOPE I DO.  I AGREE WITH ALL OF THE FRUSTRATED AND FINALLY FINISHED WITH ONE CARE FOLKS OUT THERE.  I KEEP SEEING THE RED ICON ALSO AND WHEN I TRY TO GO TO ONE CARES SITE, I GET AN ERROR MESSAGE TO SEND OR DONT SEND TO MICROSOFT. OF COURSE I SEND IT EVERY TIME TO NO AVAIL.  WHAT THE HE-- IS GOING ON AND WHEN SHOULD WE EXPECT A REFUND CHECK?  VERY DILIGENTLY SEEKING LEGAL REPRESENTATION AND I HOPE FOR ONE CARE'S SAKE, I DON'T LOSE IMPORTANT DATA OVER THIS THING THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR WAY WAY TOO LONG NOW.  THANKS, JUST WAITING FOR AN ANSWER!!!!!!!

    You're posting to a community forum - users helping users. I recommend that you contact support for help with your problems - 

    How to reach support (FAQ) - http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsOneCare/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2421771&SiteID=2

    -steve
    Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:44 AM
    Moderator
  •  Frustrated212 wrote:

    SOMEONE SAID THE ONLY WAY TO GET THRU TO MICROSOFT WAS TO CONTACT THE PRESS.  WELL WATCH THE NEWS THEN BECAUSE I PLAN ON CONTACTING THEM ASAP AND GET SOMETHING STARTED.  I HAVE HAD WAY TOO MUCH ALREADY!!!

    Once again, have you reached out for OneCare support?

    How to reach support (FAQ) - http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsOneCare/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2421771&SiteID=2

     

    -steve

    Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:45 AM
    Moderator