none
s&t does not acknowledge correct route RRS feed

  • Question

  • Example,

    routing from Lansing, MI to Chicago.

    correct route would be  I-69 South exit 38 then I-94 West.

    S&T routes I-69 South to exit 36 and on to I-94 business route before finally joining I-94 Westat exit 104

    this problem also  exists when routing from  Detroit to Chicage at the same interstate junction only in this case  it routes off of I-94 West at exit 112 and on the I-94 business route joining  I-94 west at exit 104. This  problem exists in s&t 2013 and existed in s&t 2011

    for some reason it does not like the junction of I-69 and I-94,  but  only when going east to  west. and  south to west.  Works fine west  to east and west to north I haven't tried  it in other  directions

    Sunday, July 22, 2012 10:31 PM

All replies

  • I have not investigated the specific case you mention above.

    I have, however, experienced the same defect in the 2011 version of S&T in two very "minor" locations on a route between Arizona and Quebec.  When I installed the trial version of S&T 2013, the problem became even more egregious. 

    You can read my rant here

    http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/2380-review-microsoft-streets-trips-p5

    here

    http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/2380-review-microsoft-streets-trips-p6

    and here

    http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/4843-many-routing-bugs-no-one-microsoft-cares

    To sum up my problem described in the above posts, on a simple route between Phoenix and Flagstaff in Arizona, which essentially contains but one possible direct route along Interstate 17, S&T 2013 (set to "fastest") routes me off the Interstate along back country roads, and then returns to  Interstate 17 to complete the trip, adding approximately 20 miles to the distance.  This occurs only in a south to north direction.  Obviously a bug!!

    Though I have not had a direct response from Microsoft, others have reported that Microsoft has attempted to subrogate the responsibility to the producer of the map data;  while this may be the underlying cause, the fact that Microsoft will not address the issue, and offer patches to fix it, amounts to offering a product that does not work as advertised.

    The problem is so blatant and egregious (occuring along a major Interstate) that I have concluded that this product is not worth purchasing and have uninstalled it from my laptop.


    joshuals


    • Edited by joshuals Tuesday, July 24, 2012 1:16 PM
    Tuesday, July 24, 2012 1:11 PM
  • The problem is so blatant and egregious (occuring along a major Interstate) that I have concluded that this product is not worth purchasing and have uninstalled it from my laptop.

    Then that problem should persist with a Garmin or Magellan or Google maps application, too. It is not Microsoft's problem, it is NAVTEQ's. Don't blame the messenger.


    “There is nothing - absolute nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats” -Ratty, The Wind in the Willows, Kenneth Grahame Michigan Paddling Council web site is http://sites.google.com/site/michiganpaddlingcouncil/ Facebook Group at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=360964961348

    Tuesday, July 24, 2012 2:26 PM
  • Then that problem should persist with a Garmin or Magellan or Google maps application, too. It is not Microsoft's problem, it is NAVTEQ's. Don't blame the messenger.


    The fact is, it doesn't persist outside of S&T 2013 (on the highway described).  When I transfer the route from S&T 2013 into MapSource (maps updated recently), and then on into my Garmin Nuvi (maps updated recently), the problem disappears and the route calculates correctly.

    Let me offer this:  Suppose you went to your Chevy dealer and bought a new Chevy with Dunlop tires on it.  When you arrive to take delivery, you notice one of the tires has a large bulge in it.  When you point it out to your salesman, he says, "Well, Chevy didn't manufacture the tires, so you'll have to call Dunlop and tell them about it, and just maybe they'll send you a replacement....someday....and then we'll mount the replacement tire for you for a fee of $50."

    If that happened to me, I'd cancel the sale and go elsewhere; what would you do?

    Extend this analogy to ANY other product you might purchase.....a TV, a computer, a vacuum cleaner.....would you want the manufacturer of a product to tell you that its defects are the fault of one of his suppliers and leave you to deal with a partly-functional product?  It seems that ONLY in computer software does the manufacturers expect that those who purchase their product (for a fair market price) are tasked with helping them find and report the bugs, and THEN when the bugs are supposedly fixed, said purchaser has to pay again for the "fixed" version....which then turns out to be defectuous in other ways......it never ends!!

    It is my opinion that the consumer has a right to expect a product to perform as it is advertised to perform.  And one of the main functions of S&T is routing.  If it can't be relied upon to do as what it's advertised to do, then that is an issue that the manufacturer of the product needs to address.  If the real fault lies with their employees, their suppliers, or their subcontractors, it's STILL the manufacturer's problem to fix, expeditiously, and at his expense.....and, if for no other reason than so that manufacturer's "good name" is not damaged.


    joshuals



    • Edited by joshuals Tuesday, July 24, 2012 3:47 PM
    Tuesday, July 24, 2012 3:45 PM
  • The fact is, it doesn't persist outside of S&T 2013 (on the highway described).  When I transfer the route from S&T 2013 into MapSource (maps updated recently), and then on into my Garmin Nuvi (maps updated recently), the problem disappears and the route calculates correctly.

    There you are. What you say reveals the problem. Apparently S&T does not update its maps more than once a year. Most GPS programs feature more frequent updating. OTOH GPS is not the main feature of S&T. I used it for years without the GPS plugin.


    “There is nothing - absolute nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats” -Ratty, The Wind in the Willows, Kenneth Grahame Michigan Paddling Council web site is http://sites.google.com/site/michiganpaddlingcouncil/ Facebook Group at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=360964961348

    Tuesday, July 24, 2012 3:55 PM
  • There you are. What you say reveals the problem. Apparently S&T does not update its maps more than once a year. Most GPS programs feature more frequent updating. OTOH GPS is not the main feature of S&T. I used it for years without the GPS plugin.


    I'm unable to follow your logic.  The problem I described (on I-17) DID NOT exist in S&T 2011 (or previous versions back to 2009).  Now, in S&T 2013, the problem suddenly appears.  I can't comment on when S&T updates their maps, but SOMETHING happened between S&T 2011 and S&T 2013 that brought about this problem.  (As I'm sure you are aware, there was no S&T 2012)

    I am also unable to follow your comment about GPS.  I stated that "a main function of S&T is ROUTING" (how to get from here to there).  That functionality is touted in BOTH the non-GPS version and the fullblown GPS version and is the main impetus  for purchasing the product.  Whether or not S&T is used for GPS functionality (aka "navigation") is neither relevant to this topic nor to the problem I am experiencing.


    joshuals


    • Edited by joshuals Tuesday, July 24, 2012 4:22 PM
    Tuesday, July 24, 2012 4:14 PM
  • I'm using 2010 S&T.  I set a trip from Northern Canada down to Phoenix, and 60 miles from  my home it takes me down a bush road that used to be an old railway line.  Nothing has been there for 25 years.

    My 2006 version does not do this.  I'm scared to use the routing from 2010, if this is where it is going to take me.  What else is it going to do 2000 miles away from home.

    --

    Gordon

    Wednesday, July 25, 2012 3:47 AM
  • I'm using 2010 S&T.  I set a trip from Northern Canada down to Phoenix, and 60 miles from  my home it takes me down a bush road that used to be an old railway line.  Nothing has been there for 25 years.

    My 2006 version does not do this.  I'm scared to use the routing from 2010, if this is where it is going to take me.  What else is it going to do 2000 miles away from home.

    --

    Gordon

    Well said!  That's the big tragedy of this issue: the loss of trust that users are going to have for the product, especially for long trips through unfamiliar territory.

    It's probably not much consolation to you, but I did not experience this problem UNTIL S&T2011.  That doesn't mean it didn't exist in previous versions of S&T, but I didn't experience it.

    The only thing I can suggest, and I know this isn't a good way to spend your time, but zoom in to where you can only see about five miles of the route on your screen and drag the screen the entire length of your trip to see if there are any other obvious deviations from the route that makes sense to you.  It gets pretty boring doing this, but that's how I discovered the routing problem in 2011.  I would rather discover the problems BEFORE I get behind the wheel.....

    The only other thing I could suggest is to download a fourteen day trial of S&T2013 and see if perchance the problem has been fixed in your area of concern.

    Good luck


    joshuals

    Wednesday, July 25, 2012 5:43 AM
  • As I said, S&T apparently updates its maps once a year, while GPS navigation programs usually update several times a year. And when I make a correction to S&T, it gets kicked up to NAVTEQ, where corrections are made for the benefit of all GPS users. Except apparently for S&T users, who only get map updates when they purchase a newer version of S&T.

    Whenever I get a S&T routing, I almost always modify it to accommodate my peculiar preferences and my local knowledge. That's what I like about S&T. Other GPS program's routings are much more difficult or impossible to modify.


    “There is nothing - absolute nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats” -Ratty, The Wind in the Willows, Kenneth Grahame Michigan Paddling Council web site is http://sites.google.com/site/michiganpaddlingcouncil/ Facebook Group at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=360964961348

    Wednesday, July 25, 2012 1:27 PM
  • As I said, S&T apparently updates its maps once a year, while GPS navigation programs usually update several times a year. And when I make a correction to S&T, it gets kicked up to NAVTEQ, where corrections are made for the benefit of all GPS users. Except apparently for S&T users, who only get map updates when they purchase a newer version of S&T.

    Whenever I get a S&T routing, I almost always modify it to accommodate my peculiar preferences and my local knowledge. That's what I like about S&T. Other GPS program's routings are much more difficult or impossible to modify.


    “There is nothing - absolute nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats” -Ratty, The Wind in the Willows, Kenneth Grahame Michigan Paddling Council web site is http://sites.google.com/site/michiganpaddlingcouncil/ Facebook Group at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=360964961348

    Yes....the reason I purchased S&T in the first place is that it's much more versatile and user friendly that anything else I have used.

    I can easily understand why a particular version of S&T might not have every highway in the US and Canada exactly as it exists on the ground at the time the product is released. There's too much ongoing highway construction for Microsoft (or NAVTEQ) to keep up with the changes on a real time basis, and I'm happy to accept that even a brand-new version of S&T might be "out of date" before it's released.

    What I'm having trouble getting my arms around is the fact that a major route of long-standing, that has experienced no re-construction in forty years, and which routed correctly in S&T 2011 (and previous versions) does NOT route correctly in S&T 2013.  The problem lies near coordinates N34-26-14, W112-15-02 (degrees/minutes/seconds).  If you attempt to snap the route to any point on the northbound lane of I-17 in this locality the software will simply refuse to put a via point there.  Try creating avoidances and the program will route you further "out of the way".  The I-17 NB roadway linework is correctly illustrated, but the coordinate points are evidently not there for that section of road.

    As a highway surveyor, I understand about how coordinate databases work and have at least a minimal knowledge of how S&T must use a coordinate database to "do its thing".  I also have seen what chaos it causes for a surveyor when a portion of a coordinate database gets "lost" (i.e. deleted) as the data is handled by people and computers.  I suspect that not enough care is being excercised by someone involved in the workflow of getting the coordinate data from one version of S&T to another.

    Furthermore, I spend a lot of time planning this route each year and transferring data from S&T to the Garmin (who updates their maps four times a year).  In all the planning and checking that I do, I have never seen a version of a map in the Garmin that exhibited the same behavior as the one in S&T.....never....anywhere in the US or Canada.  I dunno....maybe Garmin uses another source for their map data.....?

    You state above that "I almost always modify it to accomodate my peculiar preferences....".  I agree that this should be part of the process of creating a route.  However, when the route cannot be modified (i.e. "forced") onto the route you KNOW to be your "peculiar preference" due to a fault in the software (or the database is uses) what do you do (besides report it to Microsoft) ? 


    joshuals

    Wednesday, July 25, 2012 6:42 PM
  • I won't be buying a new version to correct their problem.  If it is taking me down unused bush roads 50 miles from my home, I won't trust it 2000 miles away where I know nothing about.

    The program is sad.

    They should be able to have an available download to correct problems for registered users.

    --

    Gordon

    Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:29 PM
  • and I should add.....this bush road is not a passable road.  There was two deaths on the road a couple years ago where 2 guys froze to death after getting stuck.

    --

    Gordon

    Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:31 PM
  • I won't be buying a new version to correct their problem.  If it is taking me down unused bush roads 50 miles from my home, I won't trust it 2000 miles away where I know nothing about.

    The program is sad.

    They should be able to have an available download to correct problems for registered users.

    --

    Gordon

    Yes, they should. Just like they have construction updates.

    “There is nothing - absolute nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats” -Ratty, The Wind in the Willows, Kenneth Grahame Michigan Paddling Council web site is http://sites.google.com/site/michiganpaddlingcouncil/ Facebook Group at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=360964961348

    Thursday, July 26, 2012 2:27 PM