locked
VAIL final release Killed? Why give MS any information if they ..... RRS feed

  • Question

  • Hi,

    I know this is a question MS only knows but has anyone any idea when to espect the final release of WHS VAIL?

     

    thankx in advance...

    Sunday, August 1, 2010 6:58 AM

Answers

  • It comes down to this:

    Microsoft will have to make that announcement. Nobody else is authorized, and probably nobody else has a date that's more than a personal guess (Mine is: RTM close to the end of the year, GA early next year).

    Watch the Windows Home Server team blog for details on when RTM might be; watch Connect and the blog for future beta builds.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Monday, August 2, 2010 12:52 PM
    Moderator
  • (Responding to the edited title)

    No, Microsoft has not killed Vail. Enough enthusiasts saying "put DE back or we walk", if presented in a believable manner, could conceivably have that effect, I suppose. I don't think the 3,300 votes on the request to put it back over on Connect rises to the level of "enough", though.

    H1 2011 is the expected release for all three products built on the Vail codebase.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Saturday, November 27, 2010 1:06 PM
    Moderator

All replies

  • Hi,

    I know this is a question MS only knows but has anyone any idea when to espect the final release of WHS VAIL?

     

    thankx in advance...


    My guess is as good as yours...

     

    I'll put a bet on "when it's done". :-)


    A WHS v1 machine in the basement + Vail on an AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+, 3 GB RAM, a mixed setup of harddrives in and outside the storage pool...
    Sunday, August 1, 2010 9:30 AM
  • Hi,

    I know this is a question MS only knows but has anyone any idea when to espect the final release of WHS VAIL?

    thankx in advance...

    MS has not made any announcements about release dates.  However, considering Vail is a codename (and presumably not the name of the final product), I would say it's still quite a ways away.
    Monday, August 2, 2010 3:37 AM
    Moderator
  • It comes down to this:

    Microsoft will have to make that announcement. Nobody else is authorized, and probably nobody else has a date that's more than a personal guess (Mine is: RTM close to the end of the year, GA early next year).

    Watch the Windows Home Server team blog for details on when RTM might be; watch Connect and the blog for future beta builds.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Monday, August 2, 2010 12:52 PM
    Moderator
  • Well the Windows Home Server team blog has not been updated since Aug 16, we are talking 3 months.

    Maybe they should post a "were not on vaction still" message ;)

    I need to rebuild my server, mother board is having problems, and would prefer to do it with the new version but I guess since that could be anywhere from 3 months to a year I guess I will have to do it twice.

    John


    John J. Hughes II
    www.functioninternational.com
    Monday, November 22, 2010 6:56 PM
  • Well i,am not shure about this one. I think Microsoft is eager to het Vail in the store very soon!!

    Monday, November 22, 2010 7:16 PM
  • Well, the current version expires in January, IIRC.  So hopefully, there will be an update if not a release by then.
    Tuesday, November 23, 2010 2:25 AM
  • Hi,

    It looks like MS is  not intend to launche VAIL at all, because DE is needed for home use.

    Homeserver v1 is great, i have 8TB storage and 2,5 TB free!!!!! and it works fine for me.

    Saturday, November 27, 2010 7:10 AM
  • (Responding to the edited title)

    No, Microsoft has not killed Vail. Enough enthusiasts saying "put DE back or we walk", if presented in a believable manner, could conceivably have that effect, I suppose. I don't think the 3,300 votes on the request to put it back over on Connect rises to the level of "enough", though.

    H1 2011 is the expected release for all three products built on the Vail codebase.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Saturday, November 27, 2010 1:06 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi Ken,

     

    With respect but i don,t think that MS wil be impressed about the 3,300 votes....

    Saturday, November 27, 2010 8:37 PM
  • That are exactly Ken's words....
    Re-read....

    Hi Ken,

     

    With respect but i don,t think that MS wil be impressed about the 3,300 votes....


    Have a nice day!
    Saturday, November 27, 2010 9:29 PM
  • Hi Ken,

     

    With respect but i don,t think that MS wil be impressed about the 3,300 votes....

    3300 votes in what, 2-3 days?  Still, yeah it's not a massive number of people, but they tended to be the decision maker types of IT people.  If they alienate every WHS customer they're generating a lot of bad feeling and people who use WHS are often the ones who recommend to others what they should buy.

    Is it worth it to Microsoft to spend $X (whatever probably large amount of money it would take to keep Vail a useful product by solving the DE problem) in order not to alienate Y people and drive them to Linux or other solutions?   I don't know.

    It reminds me a bit of TV shows.  I've had my fill of some channels abruptly ending good shows and I no longer trust them, so I try to avoid these channels and not watch any of their new shows.

    It also reminds me a bit of the Silverlight debacle.  The way Microsoft announced their shift in focus on Silverlight was poorly done and it pissed a lot of people off and gave heart to their enemies.  You had Flash fanbois running all over the web proclaiming that if you invested your time in Silverlight you were wasting it on a dead end product.  I like Silverlight and we use it exactly where MS is focusing (Line of business) and I had to fend off mails from my boss wondering about the "end of silverlight?".

    In the long run this small hole in MS's credibility may grow with the others they are fostering and come back to bite them.  It might be less expensive in the long run to foster good will than to look at the immediate bottom line.

    Saturday, November 27, 2010 10:06 PM
  • Let the imagination flow...

    "Let's look into it".

    Ballmer may have summoned the minions!


    One WHS v1 machine in the basement with a mixed setup of harddrives in and outside the storage pool. And now, next to it, a Vail Refresh brother for beta duties.
    Sunday, November 28, 2010 1:23 PM
  • No-one knows but further bad news:

    "Microsoft Press Cancels Windows Home Server Vail Inside Out Book

    Over at usingwindowshomeserver.com, Andrew Edney has announced today that Microsoft Press have taken the decision to cancel his forthcoming book,Windows Home Server Inside Out.

    The disappointing news comes in the wake of widespread criticism of Microsoft’s decision to remove Windows Home Server Vail’s core storage feature, leading many existing users to state that they would not upgrade to the new platform. Vail is slated for release in the first half of next year.

    Andrew’s announcement reads as follows:

    It is with some regret that I have to announce that my forthcoming book, Windows Home Server Inside Out by MS Press has been cancelled. Following the news last week that Microsoft have removed Drive Extender from Windows Home Server Code Name Vail, and seeing the large amount of comments on UWHS, and all the other sites, MS Press really had no other choice than to cancel the book.

    I don’t blame them at all for this decision – after all, any other author will tell you, there really isn’t much money these days in print books and if the general feeling out there is that people won’t or even may not use Vail, then there certainly won’t be much of a need for a book!"

    Tuesday, November 30, 2010 1:34 PM
  • I sure hope they move forward with something, even without DE.  I would be happy getting a nearly fully functional 2k8 server for what we got WHS v1 for.
    Thursday, December 2, 2010 12:08 AM
  • I sure hope they move forward with something, even without DE.  I would be happy getting a nearly fully functional 2k8 server for what we got WHS v1 for.

    What I do know is that Microsoft has told me that they are committed to moving forward with Vail. I know this because they've told me so. :) They've also told the world the same thing. It could be that factors will align such that they decide to stop development on Vail, but I don't honestly see that as a high probability.

    So yes, I firmly believe that Vail will see the light of day. What will it look like when it does? The magic 8-ball says "Reply hazy, try again."


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Thursday, December 2, 2010 1:39 AM
    Moderator
  • What I do know is that Microsoft has told me that they are committed to moving forward with Vail. I know this because they've told me so. :) They've also told the world the same thing.

    The people who are permitted/forced to talk to MVPs are low in the feeding chain compared to the people who make these kinds of decisions at Microosft and may not even know what may have already been decided as their future. Money was in its death throes LONG BEFORE they said anything less than gung ho to mere MVPs.

    That having been said, I'm not necessarily predicting they won't ship something called WHS [next version marketing designation]. Even if they are working on the "exit strategy" as we speak, it might even live on one or two versions after that. Like a worm cut in two.

    Thursday, December 2, 2010 2:42 AM
  • Let me put that more plainly, Dick, because you missed the subtle cynicism, I think. All I know is that Microsoft told me something at some point. Doesn't actually matter what they told me, because I know perfectly well that I may not have gotten the true story, and I didn't say they gave me the true story.

    However, I do believe they'll keep the product around a little longer even if they are working on an exit strategy.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Thursday, December 2, 2010 3:08 AM
    Moderator
  • Looks like HP has nailed their exit strategy.
    Thursday, December 2, 2010 7:16 AM
  • Hi all,

     

    HP is pulling out there media smart server, MS is pulling out there VAIL books.. So what is there to believe for a simpel home user?

    Thursday, December 2, 2010 6:19 PM
  • the end is near?

    Gary

    "jef beenkens" wrote in message news:3ce1ea28-001c-4428-808c-7a0a58f56bef@communitybridge.codeplex.com...

    Hi all,

    HP is pulling out there media smart server, MS is pulling out there VAIL books.. So what is there to believe for a simpel home user?

    Saturday, December 4, 2010 11:15 AM
  • Hi All,

     

    It seems to me that MS is not interrested at all in home users any more when it come,s to WHS.... They simply used us for them develloping Aurora.... Look at the public beta release......

    Saturday, December 11, 2010 4:30 PM
  • I hope they keep the Drive Extender. I really like it and use it to my advantage. I record my TV shows on my computer and store them on my WHS and share them to all my other computers on the network. And with some shows getting to be as big as 2-3 gig's and some as big as 4-5 gig's, even with a 1tb drive, I would have to move the older shows to another drive and change all my computers to add the other drive. Where as now with DE, I had two 2tb drives in and started to run out of room (Itunes movies, TV shows, Music, Pictures etc.) I added another 2tb drive and all is well, I just keep adding to my server just as normal.. No other modifications at all. I will just have to see how that would work with the new OS (which I hope they don't just drop WHS and convert it to the new SBS, that would suck) and see how they change or maybe make something better. Raid maybe?
    Friday, December 17, 2010 3:47 AM
  • Enough with the title changes on this thread, Jeff...
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Friday, December 17, 2010 4:11 AM
    Moderator
  • Hi Kenn,

    No problem, i only try to find out what the majority of us home users think of MS regarding VAIL. Sometimes you have to tease to get response. I untherstand that you as a MS die hard can,t  appriciate what i,am doing. Oke i,ll stop changing the titel....

    Friday, December 17, 2010 6:16 PM
  • If you have a new question, start a new thread. That's all I ask. :)
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Friday, December 17, 2010 6:40 PM
    Moderator
  • Does this mean the HomeServer Vail Refresh will deactivate in January? What about Preview? I have one of each running.
    Tuesday, December 21, 2010 1:17 AM
  • Hi,

     

    If you ask me, i don,t know. But Vail without DE = SBS essentials 2011!!!! So i think that MS has no reasen to launch VAIL seperate...

     

    Greetz.....

    Tuesday, December 21, 2010 6:53 AM
  • I think HP killing their server line is a big vote!  Also the Aurora product is an in between product.  Too Big for home....
    Monday, December 27, 2010 7:43 PM
  • It seems to mee that there are more and more people out there who are dissapointed about VAIL. Also it,s strange that MS did not talk about VAIL during CES.

    Saturday, January 8, 2011 7:37 AM
  • I don't get it, what's all the commotion for the Drive Extender??? Isn't or couldn't this simple be solved by using a second (SATA) RAID-controller to merged the disk used for the data sharing part?

     

    Regards,

    Manta23

    Tuesday, February 8, 2011 9:13 PM
  • >>I don't get it, what's all the commotion for the Drive Extender??? Isn't or couldn't this simple be solved by using a second (SATA) RAID-controller to merged the disk used for the data sharing part?
    =========
    Drive Extender is supposed to be simple and easy to use. Also, the cheapest way out because you can add whatever drives you have on hand, or that are on sale, no matter the size, for additional storage.

    As to RAID, there is no way it's cheap or even economical for your average home user. Further, very few home users (except those of us who can be called Technical Beta Testers) will have the technical expertise to set up a RAID system.

    A few years back, someone did a survey of those testing Vista, I think. You would be amazed at how many of us are retired and on fixed income. A large percentage of the rest of us are of the family persuasion, which means they don't have much, if any more income than us retirees. With just these two groups, it's plain there's not that much disposable income to throw around.

    Finally, Windows HOME Server is just that; for those of us who want to use it for HOME computer backup.

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward
    Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:27 PM
  • >>I don't get it, what's all the commotion for the Drive Extender??? Isn't or couldn't this simple be solved by using a second (SATA) RAID-controller to merged the disk used for the data sharing part?
    =========
    Drive Extender is supposed to be simple and easy to use. Also, the cheapest way out because you can add whatever drives you have on hand, or that are on sale, no matter the size, for additional storage.

    As to RAID, there is no way it's cheap or even economical for your average home user. Further, very few home users (except those of us who can be called Technical Beta Testers) will have the technical expertise to set up a RAID system.

    A few years back, someone did a survey of those testing Vista, I think. You would be amazed at how many of us are retired and on fixed income. A large percentage of the rest of us are of the family persuasion, which means they don't have much, if any more income than us retirees. With just these two groups, it's plain there's not that much disposable income to throw around.

    Finally, Windows HOME Server is just that; for those of us who want to use it for HOME computer backup.

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward


    Nancy:

    The "average home user" will buy a PC backup system from a major computer supplier.  The RAID chip (Intel or AMD) will already be on the motherboard. If he wants the "Data Integrity" option, it will come with 2 drives already configured with RAID 1. He/she won't know the difference.

     

    Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:50 PM
  • >>I don't get it, what's all the commotion for the Drive Extender??? Isn't or couldn't this simple be solved by using a second (SATA) RAID-controller to merged the disk used for the data sharing part?
    =========
    Drive Extender is supposed to be simple and easy to use. Also, the cheapest way out because you can add whatever drives you have on hand, or that are on sale, no matter the size, for additional storage.

    As to RAID, there is no way it's cheap or even economical for your average home user. Further, very few home users (except those of us who can be called Technical Beta Testers) will have the technical expertise to set up a RAID system.

    A few years back, someone did a survey of those testing Vista, I think. You would be amazed at how many of us are retired and on fixed income. A large percentage of the rest of us are of the family persuasion, which means they don't have much, if any more income than us retirees. With just these two groups, it's plain there's not that much disposable income to throw around.

    Finally, Windows HOME Server is just that; for those of us who want to use it for HOME computer backup.

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward


    Nancy:

    The "average home user" will buy a PC backup system from a major computer supplier.  The RAID chip (Intel or AMD) will already be on the motherboard. If he wants the "Data Integrity" option, it will come with 2 drives already configured with RAID 1. He/she won't know the difference.

     

    With Zero ability to expand this protected storage, verses WHSV1 where it was possible.  New version, with a crucial missing feature, simple as that.
    Tuesday, February 8, 2011 11:00 PM
  • >>The "average home user" will buy a PC backup system from a major computer supplier.  The RAID chip (Intel or AMD) will already be on the motherboard. If he wants the "Data Integrity" option, it will come with 2 drives already configured with RAID 1. He/she won't know the difference.
    ========

    I have to disagree to an extent. I live out here in the boonies where every dime is watched. It is amazing how many folks decide to keep and upgrade what they have. Further, many of them build their own. Kind of keeps me busy straightening out their messes.

    Oh? And what happens when they want to expand their storage? Yeah, what I thought. No matter how you slice it or dice it, the fact remains that the HOME user just won't be caught going with RAID.

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward
    Wednesday, February 9, 2011 12:19 AM
  • Actually, that vote started back in November I think. 
    D.W.
    Wednesday, February 9, 2011 1:53 AM
  • Hi all,

    If you ask me RAID is to complex for home users, DE was simpel en works still great. My statement was that with killing DE VAIL becomes the same product as SBS2011, except for the price and the numbers of CAL.

     

    Greetz, Jef...

    Wednesday, February 9, 2011 6:54 PM
  • Drive extender is gone in WHS 2011. Well done Microsoft and I mean that. WHS 2011 is sooooo much more flexible. I actually know where things are and the 2Tb limit per drive actually helps when it comes to backup.

    WHS 1 DE works fine until it doesn't and then what happens ? You have no idea where your data is with DE and no idea if something fails how much of an impact there will be. Drives fitted at the same time, can easily die at the same time, so how robust is DE ? Then how do you backup your "pool" of drives ? I have 2 x 10Tb Tranquil Servers and 2 x 5Tb Other WHS V1 servers. I have to copy Server to Server to back them up reliably. Otherwise I have to "remember" how to partition everything into 2Tb chunks, so that I can backup to an attached USB. With WHS 2011, life is so much better. I take the 1st 2Tb disc and make that Movies, I take the second and make that Music, the 3rd Photos, I can use the 4th and 5th until required as backup so yes in 2011, I actually know my real risk and where my data is actually stored. I can also plug in a 2Tb external USB disc and copy any of my WHS 2011 discs easily - guaranteed.

    Also with a RAID WHS V1 DE always reported "Disc issues" as did WHS 2011 Beta 1 with DE. With WHS 2011 (I don't use RAID I just use the RAID exppansion card to have more drives - now 8 !), this all just works. Why ? Having worked in software dev for 30 years, there is a great addage - never try and add architecture, it needs to be there at the beginning. DE totally violates this rule and MS have obviously found some horror scenarios with DE that they can't reliably fix. So well done MS and thank you for removing the DE clunkiness and providing a bulletproof OS.  

    Thursday, March 17, 2011 5:07 AM