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Does WHS eat up 2TB drives? RRS feed

  • Question

  • OK, I have built lots of computers. But this is a strange one for me.

    I am rebuilding my WHS. I had 2 1TB drives installed. I wanted to move to 2 2TB drives. So I bought 2 brand new Barracuda ST32000542AS drives and I have not been able to get the system properly installed and running without errors. I tried this before and when copying data to WHS I was getting bad sector errors on the D drive. Hmmmm.... maybe a new bad drive. So here are the steps I have taken (multiple times) and the results I am getting. I have also performed the same steps on the other 2TB drive I bought, same results.

    Same motherboard for previous working system and new system.
    Same RAM
    Same controller
    Same cables
    Same power supply

    I installed the first drive.
    I verified that the drive has the latest Seagate firmware
    Ran Seatools long diagnostic and it proved no errors
    Ran Seatools zero out the entire drive, no errors
    Ran Seatools long diagnostic again, no errors
    [BTW, I ran Seatools self booting DOS version which speaks directly to the drives through the same hardware]
    Installed WHS, loaded all updates, patches, Power packs.
    Ran chkdsk /r /f /v on the D drive. And this is what I am getting:
    If you look at the numbers it seems it always truncates everything over about 1TB. Or one of the drivers does not like 2TB and rolls over on itself at 1TB.

     

     

    Checking file system on D:

    The type of the file system is NTFS.

    Volume label is DATA.

    A disk check has been scheduled.

    Windows will now check the disk.

    Cleaning up 3 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.

    Cleaning up 3 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.

    Cleaning up 3 unused security descriptors.

    CHKDSK is verifying Usn Journal...

    Usn Journal verification completed.

    CHKDSK is verifying file data (stage 4 of 5)...

    File data verification completed.

    CHKDSK is verifying free space (stage 5 of 5)...

    Free space verification is complete.

    Adding 219939347 bad clusters to the Bad Clusters File.

    Correcting errors in the Volume Bitmap.

    Windows has made corrections to the file system.

    1932531142 KB total disk space.

    648808 KB in 17 files.

    20 KB in 24 indexes.

    879757388 KB in bad sectors.

    125674 KB in use by the system.

    65536 KB occupied by the log file.

    1051999252 KB available on disk.

    4096 bytes in each allocation unit.

    483132785 total allocation units on disk.

    262999813 allocation units available on disk.

    Internal Info:

    e0 00 00 00 35 00 00 00 41 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ....5...A.......

    01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 13 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................

    5a 62 02 00 00 00 00 00 1c 4e 0e 00 00 00 00 00 Zb.......N......

    2a 75 15 00 00 00 00 00 7e e6 d3 03 00 00 00 00 *u......~.......

    c4 59 59 c3 1a 00 00 00 3e 6c 2a 15 1b 00 00 00 .YY.....>l*.....

    40 fa d0 b2 00 00 00 00 3d 9f 82 7c cc 01 00 00 @.......=..|....

    11 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 a0 99 27 00 00 00 00 ...........'....

     

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    Tuesday, January 5, 2010 4:12 PM

Answers

  • Thanks emdrei!

    Just to bring closure to this. I stepped away from this product for months because I was so p'oed. I have back and read your other thread. Did some new tests. My problem all along is IDE mode versus AHCI. The GIGABYTE MOBO's I used have no IDE mode versus AHCI. They do have a SATA RAID setup that turns on AHCI. But I was not using SATA RAID. GIGABYTE does not see this as a deficiency. And XP worked fine with 2TB drives even on the GIGABYTE MOBO. But for Server 2003 and hence WHS, the MOBO has to be set in AHCI mode to work properly. You get a false security with IDE mode until you run CHKDSK as the other threads state. The you find out it rolls over at greater than 1TB. WS03 and WHS require the AHCI setting but XP does not for some reason. EVen under WHS if you run error checking tools under Windows it seems to work OK with 2TB drives but that may be false. But the problem shows up right away when you run CHKDSK /f /r either under command prompt or reboot.

    I hope this brings closure to the issue and I dont discover I lose a bunch of data on my 2TB drives. At one point Microsoft would priority fix any bug that was security related or data loss related. This is clearly a data loss scenario but since it is WHS the attitude I get is basically "Oh well".

    Sunday, September 12, 2010 5:01 AM

All replies

  • Is there anything in the Windows driver stack or perhaps the WHS filter drivers that is causing this problem? When chkdsk runs it goes smoothly and quietly until it hits the 1 gig mark and then spews out all the bad clusters very rapidly. Like so fast that it could not have even attempted retries on the disk.

    The motherboard is a GIGABYTE board with a RealTek disk controller. I have 8 other machines all built with GIGABYTE and no problems. I double checked both the GIGABYTE and the RealTek web sites and I am running the latest drivers they have.
    Wednesday, January 6, 2010 12:36 AM
  • You maybe the first one to try and use a 2TB hard drive for the system drive if I read your post correctly.  Most seem to try using a smaller drive for the "C" and "D" and use the larger drives for the storage pool.  Does not solve your issue, but, just an observation.
    Wednesday, January 6, 2010 12:58 AM
  • You are correct. A 2TB drive that becomes the C and D drives. I thought that by starting with the larger drive it would make the largest file capacity maximum. Of course I don't have any 1TB+ files at the moment. But you never know. I have taken the machine down and now running a hardware diagnostic suite where I am hammering the 2TB drive and the RAM. So far no reported errors.
    Wednesday, January 6, 2010 1:08 AM
  • For me, that would be a high risk set-up.  The system drive can't be backed up and recovered "easily".  I hope you're using duplication, otherwise all the data on that drive is gone if it goes bad.  Just a friendly warning.

    Wednesday, January 6, 2010 1:27 AM
  • The intent is to use duplication. I was trying to set up a new 2 2TB system by first getting 1 2TB drive online then add the second. And later add more if needed. The cost for a 2TB drive is marginally higher than a 1TB drive. I also wanted the D drive (staging drive) to be as large as possible while I am going through this exercise.

    With all the testing I am doing I am beginning to think that the DE filter driver has a problem above 1TB. It has some known limitations already like only supporting MBR drives. I may be totally wrong but I am trying to systematically eliminate each piece of the puzzle. I have another WS03 standard server with the same model 2TB drive running flawlessly. It is pretty much down via elimination to be something unique in WHS. I took one of the drives I am trying to use on WHS and tried it on the WS03 Standard server. I created a single NTFS volume and it is running with no errors.

    There really is only 2 changes from what I was running with the 2 1TB drives.

    First is the obvious fact that I am running a new drive. But I have tried more than 1 2TB drive and the entire hardware platform running Seatools passes both drives with no errors using exhaustive tests.

    Second all the software is the same as the 1TB drive setup. The only difference is that the software stack has to deal with a drive that is 2TB rather than 1 TB.

    Seagate will be glad to replace all the drives with new ones if Seatools showed some error.
    Wednesday, January 6, 2010 1:54 AM
  • For what it's worth, I've been running 2 1.5TB drives for about 3 months now without any problems.  However, I will continue to follow this thread with interest as I plan to add 2 2TB drives soon myself.  Please keep posting your findings here.
     
    Thanks

    --
    ______________
    BullDawg
    Associate Expert
    In God We Trust
    ______________
     
    "Steve Smegner" <=?utf-8?B?U3RldmUgU21lZ25lcg==?=> wrote in message news:6bcd6eaf-5323-42b 7-8ae9-73f145ce542f...
    The intent is to use duplication. I was trying to set up a new 2 2TB system by first getting 1 2TB drive online then add the second. And later add more if needed. The cost for a 2TB drive is marginally higher than a 1TB drive. I also wanted the D drive (staging drive) to be as large as possible while I am going through this exercise.

    With all the testing I am doing I am beginning to think that the DE filter driver has a problem above 1TB. It has some known limitations already like only supporting MBR drives. I may be totally wrong but I am trying to systematically eliminate each piece of the puzzle. I have another WS03 standard server with the same model 2TB drive running flawlessly. It is pretty much down via elimination to be something unique in WHS. I took one of the drives I am trying to use on WHS and tried it on the WS03 Standard server. I created a single NTFS volume and it is running with no errors.

    There really is only 2 changes from what I was running with the 2 1TB drives.

    First is the obvious fact that I am running a new drive. But I have tried more than 1 2TB drive and the entire hardware platform running Seatools passes both drives with no errors using exhaustive tests.

    Second all the software is the same as the 1TB drive setup. The only difference is that the software stack has to deal with a drive that is 2TB rather than 1 TB.

    Seagate will be glad to replace all the drives with new ones if Seatools showed some error.

    BullDawg
    Wednesday, January 6, 2010 5:30 AM
  • I use 2Tb drives (but not as the system drive) without issues...so far.

    YMMV...


    "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." -- Thomas Paine
    Wednesday, January 6, 2010 7:21 AM
  • I could imagine, that the drive is faulty or the controller driver cannot handle these large disks (have seen this with NVidia at the introduction of 1.5 TB disks).
    If you have a Vista/Win7 DVD, boot the server from it and run chkdsk against that drive from its command prompt in the system repair environment.
    Best greetings from Germany
    Olaf
    Wednesday, January 6, 2010 8:10 AM
    Moderator
  • His bios may not support the larger drives either...
    "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." -- Thomas Paine
    Thursday, January 7, 2010 12:21 AM
  • I escalated a case to Seagate hoping they will help. I have 2 cases with GIGABYTE that they have not responded to.

    I have more details. I tried this experiment again on a 3rd GIGABYTE motherboard which is a different model.

    GIGABYTE with Intel ICH9R chipset and Intel drivers (my WHS machine) fails.

    GIGABYTE with nVidia chipset: works

    GIGABYTE with Intel ICH7 chipset and Intel drivers fails.

    The BIOS reports the right size and Seatools passes the drives on all 3 machines. Once Windows loads protected mode drivers the BIOS pretty much falls out of the picture correct?

    I am leaning more towards the Intel drivers. I may submit a case with Intel as well. I am hoping the case with Seagate gets the most traction.
    Thursday, January 7, 2010 4:33 AM
  • I am fully understanding why people get so PO'ed working with Microsoft and others in a multi-vendor issue.

    I have 3 different 2TB Seagate drives - all same model number. Seatools passes the drives on 3 different GIGABYTE motherboards using extensive tests. They are all the latest firmware. I believe that Seagate does not have the issue. The drives are ST32000542AS. If Seatools provided some error or some low level format issue I would know they have the issue.

    GIGABYTE ships signed Intel drivers for the onboard SATA disk controllers. I have the latest version from GIGABYTE dated 8/5/2009 version 9.1.1.1016 signed by Intel. I tried 3 different GIGABYTE motherboards, all with the latest BIOS, all with either the Intel ICH7 or ICH9R chipsets. GIGABYTE says I need to get fixed drivers from Intel.

    You know where this is leading don't you.......... :-(

    Intel says that I have to get everything from GIGABYTE.

    Microsoft says it is a Seagate / Intel / GIGABYTE issue.

    BUT....... XP works fine with the same hardware / drivers. WS03 Standard and WHS both fail with the same drivers / hardware. Windows shows the proper drive size. But when running chkdsk or even a format Windows fails all sectors over 1.1TB or so. For a hard example: Disk management says the drive is of size 1863.01 GB. With only a single primary partition for the whole drive, after running a format or chkdsk it says that 1023.91 GB is good and chkdsk reports 1953512000 KB total disk space, 879734592 KB in bad sectors, 1073344600 KB available space.

    I worked for MSFT for nearly 10 years before I was laid off. I actually do know what I am doing and not just a weekend plugger. No one is willing to step up and troubleshoot this.

    I am not sure what else I can do. It is either an Intel driver issue or a WS03 kernel issue and neither vendor is willing to step up.
    Friday, January 15, 2010 6:31 AM
  • I know you shouldnt have to, but have you tried using a PCI SATA controller until this gets resolved?
    Iknow that a lot of the mainstream MOBO manufacturers do not cope well with lots and lots of storage,I had a similar issue a while ago with ASUS, I guess that the board has more than one SATA controller have you tried the drives on seperate controllers?
    Friday, January 15, 2010 12:29 PM
  • I was thinking of trying that this weekend. What threw me for a loop was the fact that XP worked properly and WS03 failed. I find it hard to believe that the WS03 kernel would not support 2TB drives. There may be some strange interaction between the controller, driver and the kernel.
    Friday, January 15, 2010 4:06 PM
  • For those following this I have new data. I purchased a SIIG SATA II PCIe controller. Using same OS, same BIOS on the same 3 GIGABYTE motherboards, same cables, same drives, same everything except for the SIIG. The 2 2TB Seagate drives worked flawlessly. Seatools pass the drives flawlessly. Plugging the drive back into the Intel based controller and the drive fails at the 1.1TB mark. I am using the latest Intel signed driver available on the Intel web site and the GIGABYTE website. I still suspect it is the faulty Intel driver. The drive shows the proper sizes but shows continuous disk errors starting at the 1.1TB mark. The 3 GIGABYTE motherboards all fail the same way. They all have the latest BIOS installed. They have either the ICH7 or ICH9R chipsets. You know where this is headed right? GIGABYTE says they got the driver from Intel and it is Intel signed. So I have to get the updated driver from Intel. Intel in reciprocation says that I have to get the driver from the OEM. Neither GIGABYTE or Intel is willing to step up and resolve this.... well at least as of now as I type this.
    Thursday, January 21, 2010 1:18 AM
  • From what you have said I would say that its a fault with the Controller, if the add in one works as a stand alone controller and the onboard one doesnt says it all to me.
    Either a fault or a limitationof the onboard controller (which may be why the 'buck' is being passed)
    Just as another thought there are normally 2 controllers on boards that have more than 4SATA ports - have you enabled both within the BIOS as it may need both for some reason?
    Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:06 AM
  • This sounds similar to the problem I was having.

    http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en/whshardware/thread/c36d7aa9-50d4-4af7-9ff9-dd465f31216d

    Are you running in IDE mode or AHCI? 
    Friday, February 26, 2010 6:18 PM
  • Thanks emdrei!

    Just to bring closure to this. I stepped away from this product for months because I was so p'oed. I have back and read your other thread. Did some new tests. My problem all along is IDE mode versus AHCI. The GIGABYTE MOBO's I used have no IDE mode versus AHCI. They do have a SATA RAID setup that turns on AHCI. But I was not using SATA RAID. GIGABYTE does not see this as a deficiency. And XP worked fine with 2TB drives even on the GIGABYTE MOBO. But for Server 2003 and hence WHS, the MOBO has to be set in AHCI mode to work properly. You get a false security with IDE mode until you run CHKDSK as the other threads state. The you find out it rolls over at greater than 1TB. WS03 and WHS require the AHCI setting but XP does not for some reason. EVen under WHS if you run error checking tools under Windows it seems to work OK with 2TB drives but that may be false. But the problem shows up right away when you run CHKDSK /f /r either under command prompt or reboot.

    I hope this brings closure to the issue and I dont discover I lose a bunch of data on my 2TB drives. At one point Microsoft would priority fix any bug that was security related or data loss related. This is clearly a data loss scenario but since it is WHS the attitude I get is basically "Oh well".

    Sunday, September 12, 2010 5:01 AM
  • ...
    I hope this brings closure to the issue and I dont discover I lose a bunch of data on my 2TB drives. At one point Microsoft would priority fix any bug that was security related or data loss related. This is clearly a data loss scenario but since it is WHS the attitude I get is basically "Oh well".

    Note that there's no "bug" here. You must use drivers that work for your OS. The OS doesn't get adapted to work with whatever drivers the vendor feels like tossing out there, the drivers get adapted for the OS. If drivers for mode X don't work for a particular OS, but drivers for mode Y do, then you use mode Y. The "data loss scenario" you experienced is a result of failing to understand who's responsible for what.

    In this particular case, you're using a desktop motherboard, I believe, and Intel doesn't supply drivers for server operating systems to be used with desktop motherboards. So if Gigabyte is saying "use this driver for Windows Server 2003" they've either tested an XP driver on the server OS (usually not a very in depth test, either) or they've customized a reference driver themselves. Mostly, those drivers will work just fine, but caveat emptor applies.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Sunday, September 12, 2010 3:07 PM
    Moderator
  • No, there is a bug there. In IDE mode WS03 and WHS shows the drive to be 2TB. Running Seatools under a booted WS03 and everything is OK. Going to computer management -> disk management -> properties -> tools -> error-checking -> check now -> with 'scan for and attempt recovery of bad sectors' seems to work with no errors or bad sectors reported. But run 'chkdsk /f/r' either from a command prompt or on reboot and chkdsk will fail all sectors beyond 1TB.

    Without spending tons more time on this I believe it is a bug above the OEM driver in the stack. I have tried motherboards with Intel chips / OEM stack, SIIG chips / OEM stack, NVidia chips / OEM stack, and a AMD chipset / OEM stack and they all fail in the same way if the drive is set for IDE emulation mode. In my set of permutations on setting the MOBO / chipset into AHCI mode will WS03 / WHS work properly with drives above 1TB. It could be a problem in CHKDS, volume / mount manager part of the stack I don't know.

    In the case of the BIOSTAR MOBO, they identify and have the exact same driver for XP x86 and WS03 x86. Booting and running XP with BIOSTAR / BIOSTAR driver / IDE mode works just fine. Same MOBO, same driver, same IDE mode and WS03 / WHS fails. So I dont see how you can blame the BIOS / chipset / OEM driver since it is the same for XP and WS03.

    Sunday, September 12, 2010 4:43 PM
  • ... In IDE mode WS03 and WHS shows the drive to be 2TB. Running Seatools under a booted WS03 and everything is OK. Going to computer management -> disk management -> properties -> tools -> error-checking -> check now -> with 'scan for and attempt recovery of bad sectors' seems to work with no errors or bad sectors reported. But run 'chkdsk /f/r' either from a command prompt or on reboot and chkdsk will fail all sectors beyond 1TB.
    ...

    Please remember that though they are similar Windows XP doesn't equal Windows Server 2003. A driver for XP is a driver for XP. If the manufacturer labels that driver for Windows Server 2003 as well, that's not a guarantee that it will work, unless the hardware is certified for Windows Server 2003 use with that driver. Most likely the MB manufacturers never tested your scenario. It's not a problem with Windows Server 2003 because, if it were, it would happen pretty much universally, and it doesn't. My test server ran V1 fine for years, with a variety of drives ranging up to 2 TB installed and configured as legacy IDE devices. chkdsk never caused the issue you describe on that server.

    Everything you describe will be the result of driver, BIOS, or hardware incompatibility issues. If the drivers work in Windows XP but don't in Windows Server 2003 (what's under Windows Home Server) then that tells me that the drivers aren't compatible with Windows Server 2003.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Monday, September 13, 2010 10:05 AM
    Moderator
  • I had exactly the same problem with a WHS set up on a Compaq Desktop MB with a Seagate Barracuda LP : Seatools didn't see any problem and the Disk Mgmt console couldn't finish a full format. The BIOS of the Compaq MB didn't have an AHCI option and the HD was recognized in it at its full size of 2TB.

    What worked for me: I reinstalled the nvidia driver (15.124 for XP, worked fine on WHS) and first the Disk Management console did a full format, then the hard drive was added without problem in the WHS console.

    Tuesday, October 5, 2010 10:01 AM