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Definition update bug fix Idea RRS feed

  • Question

  • Wouldn't having a manual install of the updated defs help solve some issues like what's cropped up ?

    Say wloc stopped updating for some reason couldn't I just go download the newest definitions and update my wloc manually? Which next time it checks it would say hey I have the new defs install already let me check for newer ones. maybe some kind of installer that has a repair defs app and updates that could be downloaded manually on monthly bases this at lease in sure the system be update reguardless of a server issue or not.

     

    It's just a thought.

    Sunday, October 28, 2007 4:51 PM

Answers

  • It would be a good thing, but the bigger concern that I have is why should OneCare go red because there is a problem on the server side that I can't do anything about as a user? If I have connectivity and all appears to be good between my PC and the OneCare servers, just because no new update is being offered, why should OneCare warn me? OneCare is still providing protection, it just doesn't have the very latest definitions until Microsoft fixes the server side. Since OneCare uploads status to the servers on each connection, typically one or more times daily, Microsoft can see the signature versions deployed in their reporting. If the latest signatures are version x, and a significant portion of the installed base is reporting that it is on version x-1 or older, that would alert the operations people that there is a problem on their side, I would think. We should *not* have to manually download and iinstall definitions!

    -steve

     

    Sunday, October 28, 2007 7:42 PM
    Moderator

All replies

  • It would be a good thing, but the bigger concern that I have is why should OneCare go red because there is a problem on the server side that I can't do anything about as a user? If I have connectivity and all appears to be good between my PC and the OneCare servers, just because no new update is being offered, why should OneCare warn me? OneCare is still providing protection, it just doesn't have the very latest definitions until Microsoft fixes the server side. Since OneCare uploads status to the servers on each connection, typically one or more times daily, Microsoft can see the signature versions deployed in their reporting. If the latest signatures are version x, and a significant portion of the installed base is reporting that it is on version x-1 or older, that would alert the operations people that there is a problem on their side, I would think. We should *not* have to manually download and iinstall definitions!

    -steve

     

    Sunday, October 28, 2007 7:42 PM
    Moderator
  • That's a good point Steve, a server issue doesn't mean there is a problem with Onecare on my machine. Also true about manual downloads, this is a set and forget application therefore the user shouldn't need to do any updates.

     

    The other downside of Onecare showing red (where it's a matter of updates not being downloaded) is that if you look in the help files, for this topic, you are given a number of possible solutions leading upto a reinstall.  Which given the latest issue would be wholly inappropriate - Onecare should only show amber/red if there is a problem with the application (either on the machine or in a circle).

     

    A slightly different question is - when is a virus database out of date? Some AV packages don't seem to worry about a couple of days yet Onecare gets upset over a day.

    Tom

    Monday, October 29, 2007 9:25 AM
  • It's out of date after 10 days.

    -steve

     

    Monday, October 29, 2007 4:57 PM
    Moderator
  • This further supports then Onecare not having a red fit over a day or so.

     

    Tom

    Monday, October 29, 2007 5:07 PM
  •  Tom_g35 wrote:

    This further supports then Onecare not having a red fit over a day or so.

     

    Tom

    Exactly! As I think I said in my reply to Mikro, if OneCare is uploading information to the servers each time it connects - version, signature and engine versions, firewall status, infections found, etc., then there should be adequate monitoring on the server side for report data that doesn't make sense. Let's say a new signature is deployed to 1,000 clients (it's way more that that, actually) on version 2.x on Monday. By Tuesday, you would expect the reports to show that some percentage of the 2.x clients are using the new signatures. If all 2.x clients are still on the old signature, wouldn't that reveal a problem with the deployment?  

    -steve

    Monday, October 29, 2007 5:20 PM
    Moderator
  • Certainly does!

     

    As this is the 2nd server issue (that I'm aware of) with Onecare, I think Microsoft have to consider some quick decisions.

     

    If things stay as they are and we get another server problem then people are, as I said, going to think their copy of onecare has a problem and start troubleshooting/badgering support, too many times and it's bye bye Onecare (and the computer magazines will slate it).

     

    Or follow your suggestion (but no client side red warning)

     

    Or add in a noticeboard for urgent messages within onecare (either actually within the application or via a hyperlink) that lets people know the latest issues (and still drop the red warning on the client) updates.

     

    Or just only have a red/amber symbol on the client if the client has a problem

     

    Or is this too many ors?

     

    Tom

     

    Monday, October 29, 2007 5:32 PM
  • Lots of "ors" is fine. I agree with your assessment. This would be the 3rd server side signature deployment problem that I'm aware of, added to the Circle/Centralized Backup settings problem that the 2.0 beta was hit with a while back - none of which should cause a red status!

    -steve

     

    Monday, October 29, 2007 5:35 PM
    Moderator
  •  Stephen Boots wrote:

    Lots of "ors" is fine. I agree with your assessment. This would be the 3rd server side signature deployment problem that I'm aware of, added to the Circle/Centralized Backup settings problem that the 2.0 beta was hit with a while back - none of which should cause a red status!

    -steve

     

    How about gray icon when it can't connect to server.

    Tuesday, October 30, 2007 3:09 AM
  • I think these are good suggestions - how do we get the project people for the beta to comment on the possability of including them?

    Tom

    Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:56 AM
  • My impression is they already have everything they plan to do plotted out on some Gandt Chart somewhere and we are just decorations.  Who wants photo backup on line anyway?  Not something I'd want or even use.  I am here for RELIABLE protection that is ALWAYS on, from what happened this weekend I'm sure some would say that is in doubt.

     

    Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:31 PM
  • The nature of all software developments is that there must be an overall plan otherwise how will you know what you have achieved? But there has to be testing with any development - ask your employer about the last time they implemented a new system, they didn't just switch it on one morning - they will have had a test plan of one sort or another.

     

    I believe that Microsoft have noticed our comments and whilst they may not act on them today that doesn't mean it'll never happen - just that the budget for this application cannot run to it.

     

    I don't really want photo backup online but I know lots who do and more companies are offering online backup - so Microsoft would be silly not to join in.

     

    You are totally correct about reliability - Steve points out that there has been 3 server failures which have had detremental effects on Onecare that are above inconvinient, and I think that Microsoft would be unwise to ignore totally the suggestions made in this post about how to minamise future problems.

     

    Tom

    Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:50 PM
  •  Tom_g35 wrote:

    The nature of all software developments is that there must be an overall plan otherwise how will you know what you have achieved? But there has to be testing with any development - ask your employer about the last time they implemented a new system, they didn't just switch it on one morning - they will have had a test plan of one sort or another.

     

    I believe that Microsoft have noticed our comments and whilst they may not act on them today that doesn't mean it'll never happen - just that the budget for this application cannot run to it.

     

    I don't really want photo backup online but I know lots who do and more companies are offering online backup - so Microsoft would be silly not to join in.

     

    You are totally correct about reliability - Steve points out that there has been 3 server failures which have had detremental effects on Onecare that are above inconvinient, and I think that Microsoft would be unwise to ignore totally the suggestions made in this post about how to minamise future problems.

     

    Tom

     

    I'm sorry, I pretty much meant it the way you took it; but it looks to me like they are putting 'glitz' on it when there are problems in the core.  The last time the update problem happened they said it was fixed, obviously it is not. 

    Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:26 AM
  • The last time the update problem happened it was fixed. I hope that it never happens again in production. Keep in mind that we are using 2.0 against the beta environment - it is like production, but not quite. Something broke or someone set something incorrectly. That's bad.

    As for feedback - trust me, they want it and they are happy to get it. Feedback is incorporated into product planning. Sometimes we wonder why our feedback seems to be ignored, but it may have been considered and decided to be tabled for later or put aside based on other feedback. Or, the suggestions may be contrary to the design goals of the product.

    In any event, I'll be sure to point this thread out to them, Tom, although I suspect that they are already aware of it before my mention. :-)

    -steve

     

    Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:15 AM
    Moderator
  • It is a serious shortcoming that OneCare (at least version 1.6) does not have a manual download feature for virus definitions.  Until 4 weeks ago I was a happy, contented user of OneCare. The program ran and updated itself entirely unattended.  4 weeks ago I moved to Nigeria for humanitarian work.  Since I have been in Nigeria, OneCare has not been able to update itself.  I have a fairly good internet connection, but it never seems to download.  I have tried everything short of reinstalling the software (an unavailable option to me unless I get OneCare to call me in Africa or e-mail me).  I spend most of my time in a village situation without internet.  When I come to the city for internet I should be able to download virus definitions.  Furthermore, there should be a way for me to contact someone in customer support.  I cannot make a telephone call and wait on hold forever from Africa - that would bankrupt me (also the connection is sponateously dropped).

    PLEASE GIVE ME A TOOL THAT WILL ALLOW ME TO DOWNLOAD VIRUS DEFINITIONS MANULLY or HAVE A WEBSITE I CAN LOG ON TO TO DOWNLOAD DEFINITIONS.

    Thank you,

    Andy

     

    Sunday, December 2, 2007 10:20 AM
  •  Andy (in Nigeria) wrote:

    It is a serious shortcoming that OneCare (at least version 1.6) does not have a manual download feature for virus definitions.  Until 4 weeks ago I was a happy, contented user of OneCare. The program ran and updated itself entirely unattended.  4 weeks ago I moved to Nigeria for humanitarian work.  Since I have been in Nigeria, OneCare has not been able to update itself.  I have a fairly good internet connection, but it never seems to download.  I have tried everything short of reinstalling the software (an unavailable option to me unless I get OneCare to call me in Africa or e-mail me).  I spend most of my time in a village situation without internet.  When I come to the city for internet I should be able to download virus definitions.  Furthermore, there should be a way for me to contact someone in customer support.  I cannot make a telephone call and wait on hold forever from Africa - that would bankrupt me (also the connection is sponateously dropped).

    PLEASE GIVE ME A TOOL THAT WILL ALLOW ME TO DOWNLOAD VIRUS DEFINITIONS MANULLY or HAVE A WEBSITE I CAN LOG ON TO TO DOWNLOAD DEFINITIONS.

    Thank you,

    Andy

     

    When you have an Internet connection, is it proxied or dial-up? If it is via a proxy server, it won't update. If it is via dial-up, you may not be connected long enough to get the full updates.

    This is *totally* unsupported, but I believe that the Forefront Security definitions file will also install to OneCare - http://www.microsoft.com/security/portal/

     

    If it fails and makes a mess, use the cleanup tool - http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsOneCare/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=828910&SiteID=2 and reinstall. As long as you are not behind a proxy server that requires authentication, you can install and activate OneCare anywhere in the world since you already have a subscription.

     

    -steve

    Monday, December 3, 2007 1:34 AM
    Moderator