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New points system discourages (non-MS) Moderator work RRS feed

  • Question

  • As I've said many times I see little point in getting more points and achievements as you can't trade them in for anything.

    However there are people out there who are very keen to get as many of them as possible.

    My worry is that such people will be completely uninterested in doing Moderator work if it offered to them once they see that the new points system does not "reward" such work *at all*.

    I've noticed (it's in front of me every time I access the forums) that my points score doesn't increase at all if "all" that I have been doing for the past days has been spending hours a day in moderating including many moves to correct forums; marking up posts; locking threads; deleting off-topic posts in threads etc.(to do all of which I need to read many threads)

    Achievements stay the same as well.

    So the advice to points grabbers must be - do not spend your time on Moderation. Instead spend much less time on answering the occasional question. Resulting in a noticeable points increase.

     

     

     

     


    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters
    Wednesday, August 3, 2011 7:16 AM

Answers

  • > What suggestions or changes do you propose Mike, to help with this?

    What a good question´:)

    I have no idea. It just seems that the point hunters won't do much Moderator work once they realise there are no points in it for them.

    There are problems with everything I can think of. A point per move and you could get moves just for the sake of it (although they are rather a messy and longish process); points for deleting off-topic posts could mean the definition of what is off-topic gets stretched; points per locked threads and you could get threads locked as soon as a MS support person has marked a post as an answer (which they often do just because a week has gone by with no post from the OP) etc.

    Mike


    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters
    Wednesday, August 3, 2011 4:27 PM
  • Moving threads to the right place is a valuable function, I'm just not sure points are the right reward. I did consider rewarding moderators points who move something that ends up getting answered, but we are trying to keep points aligned with contributions with achievements going towards effort and the other tasks that are also important, but don't speak to the community perception of an individuals contribution. We'll give this more thought though, maybe we con figure something out.
    Community Forums Program Manager
    Wednesday, August 3, 2011 4:46 PM
    Answerer
  • Could the move be changed to proposed move? I think if those actions get reviewed by peers there are less incentive to game the system. 

    The following is signature, not part of post
    Please mark the post answered your question as the answer, and mark other helpful posts as helpful, so they will appear differently to other users who are visiting your thread for the same problem.
    Visual C++ MVP
    Wednesday, August 3, 2011 6:51 PM

All replies

  • What suggestions or changes do you propose Mike, to help with this?
    Community Forums Program Manager
    Wednesday, August 3, 2011 4:18 PM
    Answerer
  • > What suggestions or changes do you propose Mike, to help with this?

    What a good question´:)

    I have no idea. It just seems that the point hunters won't do much Moderator work once they realise there are no points in it for them.

    There are problems with everything I can think of. A point per move and you could get moves just for the sake of it (although they are rather a messy and longish process); points for deleting off-topic posts could mean the definition of what is off-topic gets stretched; points per locked threads and you could get threads locked as soon as a MS support person has marked a post as an answer (which they often do just because a week has gone by with no post from the OP) etc.

    Mike


    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters
    Wednesday, August 3, 2011 4:27 PM
  • Moving threads to the right place is a valuable function, I'm just not sure points are the right reward. I did consider rewarding moderators points who move something that ends up getting answered, but we are trying to keep points aligned with contributions with achievements going towards effort and the other tasks that are also important, but don't speak to the community perception of an individuals contribution. We'll give this more thought though, maybe we con figure something out.
    Community Forums Program Manager
    Wednesday, August 3, 2011 4:46 PM
    Answerer
  • Could the move be changed to proposed move? I think if those actions get reviewed by peers there are less incentive to game the system. 

    The following is signature, not part of post
    Please mark the post answered your question as the answer, and mark other helpful posts as helpful, so they will appear differently to other users who are visiting your thread for the same problem.
    Visual C++ MVP
    Wednesday, August 3, 2011 6:51 PM
  • I think it will be even more work and complications. Of course, if the forum to move the thread is not clear, we may want a proposed move, but in majority of situations I believe it should be just move to the correct forum.

    In the forums I'm frequent, all current moderators perform moves correctly as well as other moderator's work, but many threads that have problems are left unchanged - also, many moderators don't do any moderator's work at all, so they are only 'moderators' on paper.


    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog
    Thursday, August 4, 2011 3:57 AM
    Moderator
  • > Could the move be changed to proposed move? I think if those actions get reviewed by peers there are less incentive to game the system.

     

    All moves are already in effect proposed moves because a different moderator can then move them somewhere else. (or a thread may develop in such a direction that the original mover moves it on to somewhere else).

    Moderators generally don't want to move again a thread another moderator has moved (out of fellow Moderator considerations) but Microsoft Employee moderators seem to think of themselves as above all such considerations and have been known to move threads right back to where they came from if they don't want them dealt with in their forum(s).  [Because I am aware of that for one set of forums I now move those particular off-topic posts to the Off-Topic forum rather than to the forum they imo belong to.]


    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters
    Thursday, August 4, 2011 6:09 AM
  • As I've said many times I see little point in getting more points and achievements as you can't trade them in for anything.

    However there are people out there who are very keen to get as many of them as possible.

    My worry is that such people will be completely uninterested in doing Moderator work if it offered to them once they see that the new points system does not "reward" such work *at all*.

    I've noticed (it's in front of me every time I access the forums) that my points score doesn't increase at all if "all" that I have been doing for the past days has been spending hours a day in moderating including many moves to correct forums; marking up posts; locking threads; deleting off-topic posts in threads etc.(to do all of which I need to read many threads)

    Achievements stay the same as well.

    So the advice to points grabbers must be - do not spend your time on Moderation. Instead spend much less time on answering the occasional question. Resulting in a noticeable points increase.

     

     

     

     


    SP 2010 "FAQ" (mainly useful links): http://wssv4faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    WSS3/MOSS FAQ (FAQ and Links) http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com/default.aspx
    Both also have links to extensive book lists and to (free) on-line chapters


    The danger there is if there are many more achievements and points available only to the Moderators (less than 1% of the users), then the community will get upset about it. They already balked a little because they can't get the "Thread Mover" I, II, and III achievements. So those are there to encourage some thread movement by moderators.

    I agree that thread moving should be opened up more. Ultimately a system could be where you can suggest a thread move to a specific forum (select the forum from a list). Then a moderator approves the move, and the Move Proposer gets the points or marks toward an achievement.


    Ed Price a.k.a User Ed, Microsoft Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)
    Friday, October 14, 2011 11:20 PM
    Owner
  • This seems more like a discussion (a good one) than a question (with a right answer). Could we change the thread type?
    Ed Price a.k.a User Ed, Microsoft Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)
    Friday, October 14, 2011 11:22 PM
    Owner
  • This seems more like a discussion (a good one) than a question (with a right answer). Could we change the thread type?
    Ed Price a.k.a User Ed, Microsoft Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)


    I'm changing the thread type to Discussion as I mentioned 10 days ago, and no one disagreed. (There's no real answer to this; it's all about preferences.) So if you disagree now, reply here. Thanks!

    I also marked answers for this before changing the type to Discussion. The reason is because it was still showing up as unanswered (because it was originally an unanswered question, changing it to a Discussion without answering it makes the system think it's still unanswered... and there's no way to answer it). So this takes care of that issue. Thanks!


    Ed Price a.k.a User Ed, Microsoft Experience Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)
    Monday, October 24, 2011 7:16 PM
    Owner