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finding exact number of investment shares in MSunset RRS feed

  • Question

  • Money stores investment shares quantities as double prescision floats, i.e., with more digits than it typically displays. Mutual fund splits, for instance, can create cases where the share balance for an investment is not what is typically displayed which can cuase problems when, say, trying to sell "all shares". E.g., it might show 11.234 shares and agree with your brokerage account, but it really thinks you have 11.233999 shares.

    I recall once upon a time knowing a way/place to get Money to show the full precision share balance. From that, you can enter an Add/Remove Shares transaction for the fractional share error to get back to the correct number. But now I can't recall/find it.

    Anybody remember a way/place to get Money to show the full precision share balance?

    Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

    Wednesday, June 13, 2018 1:21 AM
    Moderator

All replies

  • To see  what the the rest of the digits are, you could do a 1000:1 or a 10000:1 split, look at the quantity then, and then delete the split to undo it.

    I don't know a way to have Money just display more decimal places on the number of shares.

    To get the share amount to a known amount, from the Account Register click  AccountSummary->AccountUpdate. That  lets you update positions to known values. It does an add shares or remove shares to adjust the number to what the broker says you have.



    Wednesday, June 13, 2018 4:12 AM
    Moderator
  • The account update may be what I was thinking of. But, IIRC, it has "complications" if you try to do it on a retirement/401(k) account.

    I was thinking there was some kludgey way to get the answer more directly, but if you don't know what it is, my memory is probably defective. It happens more and more lately.

    Wednesday, June 13, 2018 4:17 AM
    Moderator
  • If you try to do a Sell with more shares than you have, it will warn you that you only have "x" shares. It then asks if you want to remove "x" shares. Clicking Yes will zero the balance. In your case, the 11.234 should have brought up the dialog, or you could have used 11.24 shares.

    Bob - MSN Mobile

    • Proposed as answer by Fiat124 Thursday, June 21, 2018 5:10 PM
    Thursday, June 14, 2018 12:39 AM
  • I was remebering something like that, but when I try it, all I get is a message saying "Please enter an amount...that is not more than the amount you have in this account on this date" but no hint exactly what that amount is or offer to remove "x" shares.

    Similar to Cal's way, there is also Portfolio Manager | Work with investments | Update your shares. Neither of these let you pick an as of date for your share reconciliation. So you may have to back into that.

    Thursday, June 14, 2018 1:23 AM
    Moderator
  • If you try to do a Sell with more shares than you have, it will warn you that you only have "x" shares. It then asks if you want to remove "x" shares. Clicking Yes will zero the balance. In your case, the 11.234 should have brought up the dialog, or you could have used 11.24 shares.

    Bob - MSN Mobile

    This is what has worked for me in recently. I'm using MS Money Deluxe Sunset Edition.
    Thursday, June 21, 2018 5:12 PM
  • I just tried entering a RemoveShares of 100 shares of Ball Corp in Money Plus. I got this pop-up.  Clicking Yes entered a RemoveShares for 78 shares. If I were just trying to check the balance, I could have clicked No. Sell works the same, except with sell, you have to enter a price.

    After removing all of the shares, I tried another remove shares. I then got this:

    Thursday, June 21, 2018 5:23 PM
    Moderator
  • Maybe it's a function of the transaction date vs any other transactions for that investment on the same or subsequent dates. Can't say why. But I just tried this again in my case and got this message

    Same as Cal's second case. I tried both Remove Shares and Sell transaction types.


    Thursday, June 21, 2018 8:37 PM
    Moderator
  • I tried the same thing for a mutual fund instead of a stock. That gave a number as in my first case.

    I also tried splitting a stock to where I had less than one share remaining. That gave a number also.

    Presuming you have more than one share, try removing one share of Pimco Income Cl A. I am just wondering if there is something odd that the 1 share remove attempt would disclose.

    If you have less than 1 share hiding, try adding 1 share followed by removing 2 shares.


    Thursday, June 21, 2018 9:05 PM
    Moderator
  • I can remove one share on the problem date. Easy. Up pops the lots dialog as expected.

    I can sell/remove more share than I have today--with no following transactions for this investment--and I get the exact number dialog. But if I try to do it on the problem date, I get the unhelpful dialog. I *suspect*, but haven't created a testcase/modified my data set to prove, the difference is transactions for this investment after the date of the transaction that attempts to remove too many shares. Maybe they were just too lazy to code a query to get the As Of date share balance?

    Thursday, June 21, 2018 9:28 PM
    Moderator
  • I did not try a remove-shares that pre-dated any transactions.

    I think I would Void all of the subsequent transactions, starting with newest. Do the RemoveShares. And un-Void transactions starting with oldest.

    I just looked. PONAX has a distribution every month, and that was probably reinvested. Ouch.


    Thursday, June 21, 2018 9:38 PM
    Moderator
  • Yes, the void a bunch of subsequent transactions method would be how I'd attack it if I hadn't already backed into the right number through other methods.

    I wouldn't have had to go very far. This whole thing stems from a conversion of PONDX->PONAX back on 3/23. I was oh so close to 1:1. Just not quite. The split ratio I used--as the least bad way to do this since MS Money never had an Exchange transaction type--was 63640:63651. Now, of course, all the old lots are these messy post-split numbers. This will be a gift that keeps on giving for years of transactions.

    Thursday, June 21, 2018 9:48 PM
    Moderator
  • Wouldn't AccountSummary->AccountUpdate put a stop to new "giving"?

    Were you trying to do the RemoveShares for a date before or after the split?


    Thursday, June 21, 2018 9:56 PM
    Moderator
  • I didn't do this, at least in some accounts, until after subsequent transactions. I dated the split on 3/23 and entered the Add/Remove shares adjustments (hold this investment in multiple accounts) also using a transaction dated 3/23, entered after the split.

    The going forward problem is that all transactions, lots, that added shares prior to the split (conversion treated as Split in MSM) now have these bruised numbers of shares. And, sooner or later, every one of those lots will get sold. Say I reinvested $120 at $12/ long ago, and had, at the time, 10.000 shares. After this "split", that lot, in Money, now has 10.000044(s) shares or something. I can sell (real world) 10.000 shares. Can't sell (MS Money World) 10.000044 shares. Account Update/Remove Shares/Add Shares does nothing for undoing all these bruised numbers. It just wedges the total amount. I'm not sure how Fidelity, broker, treats its view of my lots for these converted shares. I assume, somewhere or other, they have the same problem.


    Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:23 PM
    Moderator
  • Re: 'investment shares quantities'. sunriise tool might be of help. What I am going to show might be geeky at best so here goes

    2002-07-02T07:00:00.000+0000 	Buy 	Woodgrove Money Market 	5024.66 	5024.66

    Header:

    date, investmentActivity, investmentName, quantity, amount

    In this example (I am using sunset sample data), I don't see quantity precision more than 2 digits but I believe if there are more precision digit in your *.mny file, you will see it.

    Each output line is tab separated, you can copy and paste into a spreadsheet and tally up the final quantities.

    Saturday, June 23, 2018 12:31 AM
  • Yeah, if all else--i.e., ways in Money--had failed, I was prepared to go with summing shares data that is ex-Money. (Via your export to ACCDB/my tools for converting it all to an ACCDB schema.)
    Saturday, June 23, 2018 2:15 AM
    Moderator