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  • Question


    Hello from Colombia:

    I’m a university student from UPTC (http://www.uptc.edu.co/). I’m working with C# 16 months ago, and now I have the mission to train to 12 classmates and 3 professors in .NET Technologies (starting with C# 2008 and VB 2008).  I’m looking for educational resources on Internet. I’m seeing in Colombia the five-star developer program, but currently it is for Visual Studio 2005. I want something much more exciting, with much more effort from ourselves. So, I’m looking for a program in English rather than Spanish (personally, I dislike that I as Colombian must go out to a general Microsoft Latin American site or to the Spain Microsoft site).

    We’ve just begin the beginners program (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/default.aspx) and the Ramp Up program (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/rampup/default.aspx ), but I feel this is not enough, mainly, because I’m thinking in build a course that combines Software Engineering + OO .NET Programming at the same time (I believe that it is possible that  a student can learn Software Engineering principles and techniques while he/she is learning C# programming).

    Do you know about a program a little more advanced and formal, but not too much, please? I’d like to change the C# learning experience (at least, for my university, of course).

    Other resources will also be useful.

    • Edited by Eder Andres Wednesday, October 15, 2008 2:49 AM
    Wednesday, October 15, 2008 2:46 AM


All replies

  • I think you need to know objects from experts like Craig Larman before doing objects Microsoft way, so start with the first link at Objects by design with the tutorials and you may need either the book or Video.



    Then you need to spend time with the Microsoft object experts and look at what is implemented by Microsoft in the blog below.  When you understand what Microsoft implemented in objects you can just add the .NET languages as needed.  The next version of Visual Studio comes with UML designer and Microsoft have joined the object board again so we are expecting more object support and integrated tools.  This should get you started.


    Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCTS TFS, MCITP BI and DBA
    Friday, October 17, 2008 10:12 PM
  • Thanks for your answer. I saw those books and they're interesting. However, I was thinking to follow the activities  in the Head First Object Oriented Analysis and Design (http://www.headfirstlabs.com/). These activities are well designed for beginners (like my classmates, ... and myself); the activities are written in Java, but my goal is to "translate" them to C# and VB. The books you've recommended me complements very well and formalizes OO concepts. So it is possible combine Head First + Larman's books.

    My own challenge is to fusion programming learning + software engineering AT THE SAME TIME not just first programming and later engineering. For example, we're also reading the Architecute jornal issue 15 (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/arcjournal/default.aspx) about The Architect professional.

    Can you recommend me a book about Bussiness Process modeling?

    I'll be visiting your blog in this week. Thank for your help! If you know about other learning and training resources, I'll very thankful.

    Saturday, October 18, 2008 5:19 PM
  • Headfirst is simple Craig Larman is the IBM OOAD exam prep book before IBM bought Rational his work is language agnostic, so you could start with Headfirst but to free object model you need to start with Craig Larman and later look at Martin Fowler's UML Distilled.  Then you go to Martin Fowler's Enterprise Architecture.  Craig Larman is solid foundation in objects, one more thing Martin Fowler is working on a DSL book.




    Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCTS TFS, MCITP BI and DBA
    • Marked as answer by Eder Andres Tuesday, October 21, 2008 6:10 PM
    Saturday, October 18, 2008 5:33 PM
  • Hi Caddre:

    Yes, you have the reason. I was thinking in that Head First doesn't provide a well specified UML foundation, so it is an important point to take care of. But I have a question: since UML standard is very classic (showing attributes instead of fields, getter and setter methods instead of properties), where can I find a complete resource talking about well practices to model UML artifacts in a .NET manner? I mean, How can I make a class diagram that shows properties and attributes (the .NET attributes classes, of course!)  without Visual Studio 2008 Professional or Visio 2008?

    Deitel & Deitel's Visual C# 2005 book proposes the use of stereotypes for the declaration of properties, but it becomes more complicated state that, for example, a property is public readable (public get) and protected writable (protected set). I propose a stereotype like <<+ R #W>> Count, for example, when we're are creating our own collection.

    UML standard is important, but UML for .NET is also important.
    • Edited by Eder Andres Tuesday, October 21, 2008 6:17 PM
    Monday, October 20, 2008 12:43 AM
  • The next version of Visual Studio due out in 2010 will support UML Design built in but Microsoft now provide two Architecture forums, Class Designer and free Modeling tools you can download and use as needed.  Developers architecture needs are addressed based on posts, like in the threads below about using DI(dependency injection).  So Microsoft provides design tools but not comprehensive clean package.




    (I mean, How can I make a class diagram that shows properties and attributes (the .NET attributes classes, of course!)

    C# 3.0 comes with new properties check the link below be sure to read the comments by other developers


    Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCTS TFS, MCITP BI and DBA
    Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:00 PM

    Hi Caddre:

    I’ve grow up to 25 people interested in .NET!. We’re currently learning about Console, variables and expressions. This will take us a month. But I need your help again: for methods and decision instructions I want to model small processes (chemical, industrial, or others) that can be modeled without the concept of OO (interfaces, classes and objects), I mean, using methods, loops and variables.

    I was looking over Internet, but I don’t find a simple, educative, impressive example. Maybe, you as a MVC have faced with a business process such it can help me in this course. 

    If you have a little free time, please look at this book: Software Development: Case Studies in Java by Davide Brugali and Marco Torchiano (http://vig.pearsoned.co.uk/catalog/academic/product/0,1144,0321117832-TOC,00.html). This can be an excellent book after we finish classes.

    Another question: How can I convince my university about the Microsoft Academic Alliance? What can I say further that "We need it!"?

    Postscript: I'm preparing a quiz about .NET Philosophy fundamentals :)

    Saturday, October 25, 2008 4:36 PM
  • Eder,

    I've spend most of my career in the Microsoft education/training industry helping developers learn best practices with MS tools and technologies. My former employer http://www.appdev.com licenses .NET courseware/curriculum and materials to Universities (and they can customize them) all over the world, in English. They have great samples and labs too. They also offer the .NET courses online and via DVD. They have been educating developers since 1992 mostly in MS tools. The material is advanced and formal and covers many topics. The majority of their authors are tops in the field and some are MVPs. 

    Regarding the Microsoft Academic Alliance - That is a good question. Here is what I have found - most Universities don't offer the MAA and thus are not providing their students with the experience they need when they go into the work force. Microsoft tools education (Visual Studio) is essential. Doing so will offer an advantage they other universities don't have.

    If there is anything I can do please let me know.

    Monday, October 27, 2008 5:31 PM
  • Hello Tavis:

    I'm looking for a UML for .NET (C# and VB) specification. You know that UML is an standard and programming languages must agree it. Due to .NET has new elements, some of these cannot be modeled with the traditional UML.

    For example, how do you specify a method parameter as by value, by reference and by out in an activity diagram? how do you specify a public read-only property to other classes but protected write to subclasses?

    UML is universal, however we, the .NET Developers, use special elements that UML standard only qualify with a "stereotype". I feel that UML standard say us: "hey .NET: you are a revolution that goes against me, but I won't change for you!".

    So, can you help me with this UML for .NET?
    Tuesday, October 28, 2008 8:03 PM
  • Eder,

    Please go to the old MSDN forum site in the link below and get my email address it is in my profile.  Send me an email so we can take your needs off line because I can put you in touch with Colombian MVP who is a VC++, Biztalk and XML expert so we can cover all you and your teams .NET needs but you need to buy the .NET factory it covers the .NET object conversion.  I will also contact the Colombian MVP lead so you can get tools help as needed.  In the mean time please close the other thread and send me an email.



    Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCTS TFS, MCITP BI and DBA
    Monday, November 10, 2008 7:07 PM
  •  Hi Caddre:

    OK, I've just emailed you showing a project I have in mind. Your help is very important since I need to create a special course for my "classmates". Really, I need .NET professionals in our learning. I have only two years of experience, but a great reponsability.
    • Marked as answer by Eder Andres Tuesday, December 2, 2008 10:58 PM
    • Unmarked as answer by Eder Andres Tuesday, December 2, 2008 10:58 PM
    Tuesday, November 18, 2008 10:38 PM
  • Hi Caddre.

    I emailed you last month, but I've not receive your reply. That's a pity! I'd like talk with you and other developers here. Well, I'm still looking for more knowledge.
    Tuesday, December 2, 2008 11:01 PM
  • Hi Eder Andres,

    I made a call to the Developer Division community program manager and told him your situation about your need for tools.  He told me to send him an email so he will pass your issue to the correct person in the developer division to handle tools.  So be patient some one will contact you soon with some solution to your problem.  In the meantime start with either Express or trial versions, if you use trial versions remember to backup your code in an external drive.

    Asp.net MVP, MCPD Web C#, MCTS TFS, MCITP BI and DBA
    Tuesday, December 2, 2008 11:07 PM
  • Hi Caddre:

    Ok, Don't worry. I'm pattient, we can survive with Express Editions for the next six months, I think (the required time for administrative aproval of MSDN AA).

    Thanks for helping us in this side of the world.

    I want to share this "secret". In Colombia the Universidad de Los Andes has written a book using the Java programming language:

    Fundamentos de Programación: Apprendizaje basado en Casos (Programming Fundamentals: Active Programming based on Cases).
    (Spanish Preview: 
    -> http://www.pearsoneducacion.net/
    -> In the combobox, Select Colombia
    -> Next in the upper right corner change the combobox to Búsqueda por Autor, type in the box Jorge A Villalobos, press Enter
    -> clik on "Hojear" triangle)
    -> navigate using the larrows Página anterior and Página siguiente 

    In this book, authors show the programming learning process via real problems (well, not too real because this is an introduction to programming, of course). This book is little similitar to head first books, but the incovenient is the solution to the included problems are not in the book itself.

    In a head first book, you'll always find a problem followed by possible solutions until find the correct solution. In Fundamentos de Programación you'll find many blank spaces, and even white pages (see page 12/12 of the book preview). However, this is a good book ... for Java programmers.

    My professors told me the possibility to write guides about C# and VB 2008 programming, both at same time. Using Head First Style but a little more depply about some details. Guides not forming a book, maybe a magazine (month to moth) until complete a level. Well, they're only ideas.
    Tuesday, December 2, 2008 11:59 PM