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Microsoft is their own worst enemy when it comes to piracy! Why is that? RRS feed

  • Question

  • I have made several reports regarding a US seller (Micro_Tech1) on eBay selling computers with Windows 7 Ultimate N and Windows Office Professional Plus and not including the required DVD or COA for either product. So many reports made to eBay fell upon deaf ears and was told eBay doesn't care until MS files a VERO or customers complain. Reports to Microsoft piracy resulted in no action. Therefore, a purchase of 1 of their systems through a 3rd party, I was able to confirm that Windows 7 was activated with a MSDN key. I contacted Microsoft customer service and explained the situation and the CS asked me for the product key which I was able to retrieve using Jellybean Keyfinder. MS CS said that key was indeed a MSDN key and had been activated over 900 times. 900 TIMES??? Why and how could that be happening?

    One would have thought that when this was brought to MS attention, MS would have immediately blocked that key. NOPE So I was able to obtain a copy of Ultimate N for testing purposes, installed and used the same product key. I could not activate online however when I did the phone activation and was asked "How many computers this version of Windows has been installed on" I replied 1. VERIFIED !!!!! and then the computer read back all those digits and now Windows was activated.

    I looked at the PID and sure enough the code was 076

    So my question is why this has been allowed to happen over such a long period of time or does MS not really care how much money they lose, how much money legit sellers lose, how many customers are being ripped off?

    Did not know if it was allowed to post the product key used or not so I left it off.

    Monday, August 27, 2012 2:51 PM

Answers

  • It takes time to work though the system and get into the block lists - MS have to follow strict procedures.

    MSDN Keys are allowed a much higher number of activations than normal retail Keys before they trigger threshholds - but I must admit to surpise that aKey hedn't been blocked well before 900 attempts, unless they were all on the same apparent hardware.

     Here's my standard spiel on the time-delays involved in tagging abused keys....

     

    For MSDN Keys:- MS can only act once a key hits a threshold (and they won't tell an outsider what that threshold is, understandably). They then have to put it through internal systems to ensure that all relevant parties are informed, just in case it's an oversight - then it enters the queue for the next update to the system.

    I have no idea how often the WAT checking system is updated, but I would suspect that it's no more than weekly because of admin and timing issues. The internal MS processes could therefore take easily a couple of months. It therefore depends on how close to the end of a vendors sales list you are, and how quickly he's selling them.

    The cannier ones will sell just enough to stay under the threshold for each product (MSDN subs include a huge number of products), until they've maximised the profits, then try and flood the market before disappearing into the sunset, laden with your cash.

    This could take anything up to a year or more.

     

     For products sold using a loader:- The loader gets around online activation by fooling the computer into thinking that the OS is installed onto the correct machine, by modifying certain files.

    Because of a number of factors, it's impossible to stop this, so MS came up with the WAT update - which has the ability to scan the relevant files, and detect the use of a loader tool. If the user fully updates the machine, including recommended updates and optional updates, then the WAT update is installed and starts work, and within 3 days, a loader-installed machine will get a notification.

    However, the WAT update is a voluntary one, at least at the first update run, and can be uninstalled or refused. The other time the WAT update is installed is when you validate Windows for some reason - it is part of the validation process, rather than the activation process. This time, it does the scan immediately, and again this will show as non-genuine if a Loader is present. If a user never needs/wants to validate, then they need never install the WAT update, and may never see a non-genuine notification.


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth

    Monday, August 27, 2012 5:06 PM
    Moderator

All replies

  • It takes time to work though the system and get into the block lists - MS have to follow strict procedures.

    MSDN Keys are allowed a much higher number of activations than normal retail Keys before they trigger threshholds - but I must admit to surpise that aKey hedn't been blocked well before 900 attempts, unless they were all on the same apparent hardware.

     Here's my standard spiel on the time-delays involved in tagging abused keys....

     

    For MSDN Keys:- MS can only act once a key hits a threshold (and they won't tell an outsider what that threshold is, understandably). They then have to put it through internal systems to ensure that all relevant parties are informed, just in case it's an oversight - then it enters the queue for the next update to the system.

    I have no idea how often the WAT checking system is updated, but I would suspect that it's no more than weekly because of admin and timing issues. The internal MS processes could therefore take easily a couple of months. It therefore depends on how close to the end of a vendors sales list you are, and how quickly he's selling them.

    The cannier ones will sell just enough to stay under the threshold for each product (MSDN subs include a huge number of products), until they've maximised the profits, then try and flood the market before disappearing into the sunset, laden with your cash.

    This could take anything up to a year or more.

     

     For products sold using a loader:- The loader gets around online activation by fooling the computer into thinking that the OS is installed onto the correct machine, by modifying certain files.

    Because of a number of factors, it's impossible to stop this, so MS came up with the WAT update - which has the ability to scan the relevant files, and detect the use of a loader tool. If the user fully updates the machine, including recommended updates and optional updates, then the WAT update is installed and starts work, and within 3 days, a loader-installed machine will get a notification.

    However, the WAT update is a voluntary one, at least at the first update run, and can be uninstalled or refused. The other time the WAT update is installed is when you validate Windows for some reason - it is part of the validation process, rather than the activation process. This time, it does the scan immediately, and again this will show as non-genuine if a Loader is present. If a user never needs/wants to validate, then they need never install the WAT update, and may never see a non-genuine notification.


    Noel Paton | Nil Carborundum Illegitemi | CrashFixPC | The Three-toed Sloth

    Monday, August 27, 2012 5:06 PM
    Moderator
  • I have made several reports regarding a US seller (Micro_Tech1) on eBay selling computers with Windows 7 Ultimate N and Windows Office Professional Plus and not including the required DVD or COA for either product. So many reports made to eBay fell upon deaf ears and was told eBay doesn't care until MS files a VERO or customers complain. Reports to Microsoft piracy resulted in no action. Therefore, a purchase of 1 of their systems through a 3rd party, I was able to confirm that Windows 7 was activated with a MSDN key. I contacted Microsoft customer service and explained the situation and the CS asked me for the product key which I was able to retrieve using Jellybean Keyfinder. MS CS said that key was indeed a MSDN key and had been activated over 900 times. 900 TIMES??? Why and how could that be happening?

    One would have thought that when this was brought to MS attention, MS would have immediately blocked that key. NOPE So I was able to obtain a copy of Ultimate N for testing purposes, installed and used the same product key. I could not activate online however when I did the phone activation and was asked "How many computers this version of Windows has been installed on" I replied 1. VERIFIED !!!!! and then the computer read back all those digits and now Windows was activated.

    I looked at the PID and sure enough the code was 076

    So my question is why this has been allowed to happen over such a long period of time or does MS not really care how much money they lose, how much money legit sellers lose, how many customers are being ripped off?

    Did not know if it was allowed to post the product key used or not so I left it off.

    this happens to Windows 8 in China as well.

    there's at least 20 keys leaked to the Chinese public and many Chinese IT forums have disclosed these keys and recommended activation by phone. they say, try to call UK activation number instead of any other country to increase the chance of a successful activation. 

    next time, when microsoft blame people for using priated windows, they should ask themselves first why it is so easy to pirate a Windows?

    by the way, those laptops / desktops with Windows 7 home basic presintalled sold in China, always get the genuine home version replaced by pirated Ultimate version. when people buy a new laptop, even though it's preinstalled with genuine Windows 7 home, the first thing they do is to erase it and installed a pirated Ultiamte version 

    when i ask why everyone using pirated "Windows 7", i got replies like, "I don't see a genunie version is better than pirated version anyway", "is it difficult to pirate Windows 7? No!", "all my money gone to that expensive display card and i don't have any money left.... "  

    Chinese PC enthusiasts willing to spend 2000 dollars for a super powerful PC but never willing to spend 90 dollars for a Windows.

    (Windows 7 Home Premium cost around 550 Chinese Yuan ($87) at software shops)

    Saturday, September 15, 2012 10:52 AM