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Maximum PC Thwacks Microsoft over WHS RRS feed

  • General discussion

  • I bought the April issue of Maximum PC and there's an article titled "Where are They Now? Windows Home Server Edition".

    Leaving the boring details out, I quote: "Microsoft also ran into a buzz saw of bad publicity when consumers learned that the best feature of WHS--Drive Extender-- was pulled from the latest version. An explanation of Drive Extender followed.

    The article continues: "Many WHS users say that without Drive Extender, there's simply no point in even running the OS any more."

    One person wrote, "It boggles my mind that this team has decided to kill this product and tick off its core user base. We've spoken, yet this team, and/or its management, has failed to listen. This product, at the home consumer level, will fail."

    There's more, but this is all I'm comfortable with posting from the article, even though I'm giving full credit for the article to Maximum PC. Since this is such a new issue, I don't think the article will be found online yet.

    I guess Maximum PC accurately reported our feelings on the issue.


    Nancy Ward
    Thursday, March 3, 2011 6:27 PM

All replies

  • But yet on connect they talk about the next version.  I found that article rather biased.  Everyone just seems to hop on the train, cause they aren't getting there way.  So I'll be the advocate.  Here is an article about whats good in 2011 .


    D.W.
    Saturday, March 5, 2011 12:41 PM
  • But yet on connect they talk about the next version.  I found that article rather biased.  Everyone just seems to hop on the train, cause they aren't getting there way.  So I'll be the advocate.  Here is an article about whats good in 2011 .


    D.W.

    I don't know... Sean Daniel's blog entry has a certain defensive ring to it. If you read it carefully there are a few quotes that at least to me stand out as a bit bizarre, like where he encourages the reader to get rid of data "Do you really need to be a digital hoarder and save everything? People save a lot, and it costs money, but do you really need it all? ". Read the rather thoughful comments to the entry. It's also posted here: http://sbs.seandaniel.com/2011/02/why-i-plan-on-using-new-windows-home.html with even more relevant comments.

    Personally I have close to half a million photos, a large portion of which are raw files and gigabyte-sized drum scans from large format film images - perhaps not a typical WHS user but lots of people use WHS1 to store recorded HDTV and ripped DVD collections. The thing is, when you make a storage server you kinda have to expect people to use it to store stuff. If I had to make a decision what to keep I'd have to make almost a million decisions. Life is too short for that. The only rational way of managing digital assets is to use technology to minimize the number of such decisions. The time when the you hit the 2TB limit on backup size is not the right time for such decisions.

    Perhaps Daniel is unaware of how people actually use WHS1 - but that's highly unlikely as he is Senior PM of WHS. More likely the strong user criticism of lately has put him and his team against the wall, and he is trying to do something about the perception of Vail. I'd call that "marketing", rather than "an article". Considering the source I'd say it's certainly more biased than the Maximum PC article.

    There's certainly a lot of good features in Vail - it just addresses a different user segment than Vail.

    Saturday, March 5, 2011 3:38 PM
  • Well it goes both ways. I have been told I have a biased opinion, because I like the product.  I'm not defending it, I just like it.  So is pointing out the good points in something being defensive? 

     

    I also think Maximum PC went a little too far by saying WHS is dead.  HP jumped ship, and drive extender is gone = WHS is dead?  Yet a major release is just around the corner.  It just felt like a tabloid article.  A lot of speculation, and not many facts.


    D.W.
    Saturday, March 5, 2011 5:08 PM
  • So is pointing out the good points in something being defensive? 
    Well, if you gloss over the bad points, as Sean Daniel does, then, yes, I think you could say that.
    Saturday, March 5, 2011 5:21 PM
  • And where were the good points that were glossed over in the maximum pc article? 
    D.W.
    Saturday, March 5, 2011 5:32 PM
  • Sure, there are two sides represented in the two texts we are discussing (though I haven't read the Maximum PC article). Product marketing shows a product in the best possible light, whereas a journalist is expected to be critical and investigative. No surprise there.

    The key message here, I think, is that Vail is not a product that replaces WHS1. Users expect it to be a replacement for WHS1 (in part due to MS marketing), thus the disappointment among WHS1 users. Sean Daniel's blog entry sells the replacement image even more as he tries to strengthen the product positioning, thus the harsh comments to the blog. Perhaps it would be wise for MS to consider positioning Vail as a different product than WHS1.

    Saturday, March 5, 2011 7:00 PM
  • Wow, has anyone besides Nancy who is posting here read the maximum pc article?
    D.W.
    Saturday, March 5, 2011 9:47 PM
  • I've read it, interesting read.  I agree and don't agree.  I have adjusted what I use WHS for and I like 2011..
    Saturday, March 5, 2011 11:01 PM
  • I have been a subscriber to MPC for many, many years. I read what I read, they have an opinion like others. My own testing of this is what I go by and so far for my home environment it works for what I need.
     
    Now saying that there is a lot of things to say between old and new but I am working with what I have now and seeing where it can go. In the setup that I have I have done backups, images and so forth for a long time. I am so used to doing it that I still have that running as I am testing so nothing is getting lost.
     
    This is not a positive or a negative against anything that is posted, it is just my opinion.
     
    I will patiently wait to see what happens in the near future, there are a lot of people developing third-party apps so it might be the course to go.

    --
    Don
    Saturday, March 5, 2011 11:18 PM
  • Wow, has anyone besides Nancy who is posting here read the maximum pc article?

    Doesn't look like it, D.W. Did you?

    Mainly what I was trying to point out is that the word's getting out that Microsoft isn't listening to us. However, as I've said before, it may be that they can't do what the vast majority of us want to happen.


    Nancy Ward
    Sunday, March 6, 2011 12:32 AM
  • Yeah I get that.  I did read the article.  The thing with microsoft is that they can't please everybody, and business platforms are where the money is.  I also thought the article jumped to a lot of conclusions about WHS being dead.
    D.W.
    Sunday, March 6, 2011 1:07 AM
  • I wish I could read it.  It takes 60-90 days for the print versions of most magazines to reach my APO address as they send it "boat" mail and not by air.   For Maximum PC, I'll just have to wait for the current edition to hit the pdf archive on the web.  I can access the web archive before the printed version would make it here.


    _______________

    BullDawg
    In God We Trust
    _______________
    <Nancy Ward> wrote in message news:16a547d5-cc7c-4f90-851f-45c4d0a344ab@communitybridge.codeplex.com...

    Wow, has anyone besides Nancy who is posting here read the maximum pc article?

    Doesn't look like it, D.W. Did you?

    Mainly what I was trying to point out is that the word's getting out that Microsoft isn't listening to us. However, as I've said before, it may be that they*can't* do what the vast majority of us want to happen.


    Nancy Ward


    BullDawg
    Sunday, March 6, 2011 1:30 AM
  • Yeah I get that.  I did read the article.  The thing with microsoft is that they can't please everybody, and business platforms are where the money is. I also thought the article jumped to a lot of conclusions about WHS being dead.

    Well, it seems to me the consumer market is pretty lucrative for Microsoft also. As examples, there're several versions of Microsoft Office, such as Home and Student and Professional, to name two. Then there's Windows (all versions). We have Ultimate, Professional and Home Premium to name a few. There's the professional Forefront for business as well as the free Microsoft Security Essentials for home computer use. Then we have the free Windows Live Essentials with its suite of apps such as Windows Live Mail, Windows Live Messenger, Family Safety, Windows Live Mesh, Windows Live Writer, etc.

    Why on earth should we not hold Microsoft's feet to the fire and insist on the Windows Home Server they set out to produce in the first place? Is that too much to ask? Especially in light of all the consumer apps above that don't even begin to list everything available for consumers from Microsoft. Is it so unreasonable to expect Windows Home Server to remain a Home program, rather than to divert it to something most home consumers won't be able to use? It's not like we're asking them to do away with Server 2008 R2 or the Small Business Server.

    Microsoft set out to produce, and quite successfully did produce, Windows Home Server v1. It was easy to use, and for the most part, home users had no problems using it. Then, Microsoft set out to produce Windows Home Server 2011; however, for reasons known only to them (I doubt it could be for monetary reasons only) they diverted to something much more complicated and less useful than a Home server and more like a business model. So much so, that I'm inclined to agree with your assessment that Maximum PC is saying WHS is in danger of being let die by Microsoft.

    At any rate, no, Microsoft can't please everybody, but they can please the majority. And there's no doubt that the majority want DE back. :) There's also no doubt that the majority of HOME users won't have the skill set to set up or use RAID. And I will wager that the vast majority won't be willing to put out the extra money it would take to set up RAID. I'd be willing to bet the majority aren't able to afford it in the first place.

    There may be more money in the business platform; however, we lowly consumers are nothing to be sneezed at! Without us, Microsoft would surely feel the loss.


    Nancy Ward
    Sunday, March 6, 2011 4:26 AM
  • "...There's also no doubt that the majority of*HOME* users won't have the skill set to set up or use RAID. And I will wager that the vast majority won't be willing to put out the extra money it would take to set up RAID. I'd be willing to bet the majority aren't able to afford it in the first place..."

    Well, I did mess around with RAID a few years back.  Decided it was great for businesses, but not home, so I most likely have the skill set.  Do I have the time to bother with it  AT HOME?  No, I have better things to do if I am not getting paid for it!  As for the money; a good hardware setup will most likely cost me a few hundred extra that I would rather spend on BEER and/or WILD WOMEN!  (Just a hypothetical example, may not necessarily reflect the opinion of this writer as my wife is wild enough and keeps the beer refrigerator well stocked.)

    Bottom line:  I have neither the time nor money to bother with RAID on my HOME system.

    Second bottom line:  I see no compelling reasons to move away from V1 anytime soon.

    Last bottom line:  My "hands on" testing of Vail is over, but I will stick around and voice my opinion from time to time.  If a MS DE replacement (no third party) solution surfaces, I will resume testing.  Stablebit and Drive Bender are good starts.  Perhaps MS should buy out the better and take the same route as they did with Giant Antispyware in Dec 2004, which became MS AntiSpyware, then Defender, then MSE.  It appears MS has the skill set for this business model.  (Subtle sarcasm about non-innovation is intended!)


    _______________

    BullDawg
    In God We Trust
    _______________

    <Nancy Ward> wrote in message news:84b86033-965f-431a-9e65-209b0687399b@communitybridge.codeplex.com...

    Yeah I get that. I did read the article. The thing with microsoft is that they can't please everybody, and business platforms are where the money is. I also thought the article jumped to a lot of conclusions about WHS being dead.

    Well, it seems to me the consumer market is pretty lucrative for Microsoft also. As examples, there're several versions of Microsoft Office, such as Home and Student and Professional, to name two. Then there's Windows (all versions). We have Ultimate, Professional and Home Premium to name a few. There's the professional Forefront for business as well as the free Microsoft Security Essentials for home computer use. Then we have the free Windows Live Essentials with its suite of apps such as Windows Live Mail, Windows Live Messenger, Family Safety, Windows Live Mesh, Windows Live Writer, etc.

    Why on earth should we not hold Microsoft's feet to the fire and insist on the Windows*Home* Server they set out to produce in the first place? Is that too much to ask? Especially in light of all the consumer apps above that don't even begin to list everything available for consumers from Microsoft. Is it so unreasonable to expect Windows *Home* Server to remain a *Home* program, rather than to divert it to something most home consumers won't be able to use? It's not like we're asking them to do away with Server 2008 R2 or the Small Business Server.

    Microsoft set out to produce, and quite successfully did produce, Windows *Home* Server v1. It was easy to use, and for the most part, home users had no problems using it. Then, Microsoft set out to produce Windows*Home* Server 2011; however, for reasons known only to them (I doubt it could be for monetary reasons only) they diverted to something much more complicated and less useful than a*Home* server and more like a business model. So much so, that I'm inclined to agree with your assessment that Maximum PC is saying WHS is in danger of being let die by Microsoft.

    At any rate, no, Microsoft can't please everybody, but they can please the majority. And there's no doubt that the majority want DE back. :) There's also no doubt that the majority of*HOME* users won't have the skill set to set up or use RAID. And I will wager that the vast majority won't be willing to put out the extra money it would take to set up RAID. I'd be willing to bet the majority aren't able to afford it in the first place.

    There may be more money in the business platform; however, we lowly consumers are nothing to be sneezed at! Without us, Microsoft would surely feel the loss.


    Nancy Ward


    BullDawg
    Sunday, March 6, 2011 7:44 AM