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Disable Automatic Updates off OneCare warning. RRS feed

  • Question

  • Is there a way to disable the at-risk warning (All these warning should really be configurable by the user from a OneCare dialog box on what they consider and want to be warned about)?  I've read about the Ad-Aware and other non-MS programs causing this but these are Microsoft software only development PCs.

     

    I keep automatic updates turned off and OneCare considers this a risk and annoys the heck out of us with the message to turn it on. We don't want the automatic updates on because we do a system backup before allowing Windows updates to run in case an update alters SQL Server or Visual Studio in an undesireable way. System Restore doesn't always due a true rollback. 

     

    Thanks.

    Wednesday, February 13, 2008 4:56 AM

Answers

  • Unfortunately, no.

     

    The best you can do is configure AU to install at a time you specify.

     

    The concept of OneCare is that users don't always make the best choices. Allowing you to ignore a warning and accept the consequences isn't something OneCare will ever do, in my opinion.

     

    However, I do think that OneCare's approach in the AU area is too simplistic. OneCare should be smart enough to see that an update has been made available and to change your risk status based on the time elapsed since the update was offered. Only after a set amount of time (days?) and based on the type of update - important vs. critical - should OneCare install the update automatically and reboot the PC as needed. The same goes for updates to OneCare itself.

     

    -steve

     

    Wednesday, February 13, 2008 4:45 PM
    Moderator

All replies

  • Unfortunately, no.

     

    The best you can do is configure AU to install at a time you specify.

     

    The concept of OneCare is that users don't always make the best choices. Allowing you to ignore a warning and accept the consequences isn't something OneCare will ever do, in my opinion.

     

    However, I do think that OneCare's approach in the AU area is too simplistic. OneCare should be smart enough to see that an update has been made available and to change your risk status based on the time elapsed since the update was offered. Only after a set amount of time (days?) and based on the type of update - important vs. critical - should OneCare install the update automatically and reboot the PC as needed. The same goes for updates to OneCare itself.

     

    -steve

     

    Wednesday, February 13, 2008 4:45 PM
    Moderator
  • You are dead on! That would be an awesome feature!

     

    Is it on the list? I'm probably going to jump ship in Feb if this keeps up. I'm just learning to ignore TWO warning balloons, now.

     

    Smile

     

    Friday, April 25, 2008 4:18 AM
  •  Henry2 wrote:

    You are dead on! That would be an awesome feature!

     

    Is it on the list? I'm probably going to jump ship in Feb if this keeps up. I'm just learning to ignore TWO warning balloons, now.

     

     

    I wish I knew and could tell you it was in the pipeline. My gut feeling is, no, it won't change, but they might surprise me!

    -steve

    Friday, April 25, 2008 2:57 PM
    Moderator
  • I am in agreement, I have always run my computer on windows xp sp 2 with the automatic updates turned off as I want to be able to decided what I want to download & install.  Now the system has to be set for automatice or the onecare icon goes to red.  There should be a way to configure the program for automatic updates to be off and the icon not always be red.  I really like the OneCare program, help beta test it two years ago and there was no problem with the Automatice updates being turned off.

    Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:42 PM
  • I have run into the problem where I have it configured to auto update and the switch is not saved because I constantly get warnings that I do not have it on.  This is very frustrating!

     Now, I received an email to let me know that I have one month left on my subscription.  Oddly enough, my Live One Care has stopped working all togther.  I think this is a built in un-documented enhancement to get you to update before you expire so that you only get 11 months of coverage.

     

    Has anybody else experienced this?  Is there a fix?  I have rebooted severla times with no results!!!

     

    Mike 

     

    Sunday, April 27, 2008 11:18 PM
  •  Mike Sr wrote:

    I have run into the problem where I have it configured to auto update and the switch is not saved because I constantly get warnings that I do not have it on.  This is very frustrating!

     Now, I received an email to let me know that I have one month left on my subscription.  Oddly enough, my Live One Care has stopped working all togther.  I think this is a built in un-documented enhancement to get you to update before you expire so that you only get 11 months of coverage.

     

    Has anybody else experienced this?  Is there a fix?  I have rebooted severla times with no results!!!

     

    Mike 

     

    There would be no relationship between a subscription expiring in one month and OneCare failing to start. Further, the problem you encountered where OneCare erroneously reports that Automatic Updates are off has been reported, but the cause is unknown. I've encountered this problem a number of times myself and simply clicking the warning in OneCare to turn it on resolves it.

    For OneCare no longer working, what is the exact condition you are experiencing? Is it reporting that OneCare has encountered a problem and is not protecting your computer? If so, you should probably consider reinstalling OneCare or contacting support  

    How to reach support (FAQ) - http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsOneCare/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2421771&SiteID=2

    -steve
    Monday, April 28, 2008 3:49 PM
    Moderator
  •  

    I don't agree. I should be able to turn it off. I'm not turning on Autoupdate.

     

    Your argument can go the other way. I leave AutoUpdate off. I'll just ignore it being red, and therefore *not* notice a "real" risk if one happened.

     

    The alternative you propose would be fine. But I'd rather turn it off...like you can do with the "No antivirus installed" message windows has. That message can be turned off. (Of course I have antivirus, you're missing the point)

     

    As it is right now, I've wasted my money on OneCare and plan on switching to something else...Avast, maybe McAfee.

    Saturday, August 30, 2008 12:43 AM
  • Check out Avast. I made this same complaint to a real MS employee and they said they switched to Avast for the same reason. It's getting rave reviews and it's free unless you want advanced features. It has a small footprint and active community support.

     

    MS could easily give us the configurability we're all asking for here. They just don't want to.

     

    To me it's no different than if your insurance company had the ability to turn on your check-engine light a month before your yearly payment is due. You would have to constantly have to look under the hood only to find out nothing is wrong, just a note telling you to pay us or else.  It sucks but that's the luxury monopolies have over us.  

    Saturday, August 30, 2008 3:34 AM
  • Although I believe that more configurability is needed for OneCare, you're missing the point. OneCare is not designed for you or I to tweak as we wish to micro-manage the computer's security. By using OneCare, we're subscribing to the theory that the OneCare program team is looking out for our PC's security. We don't need to think about it - it just works. In reality, it doesn't always just work, but it usually does. My wife is the perfect OneCare customer. She wants no configuration options, yet she wants to feel that her PC is secure. She doesn't want to have to think about updates, but she knows that the security updates are a good thing. When she used to be prompted to install an update, she would delay it. In any event, if you want granular control of your PC security settings, OneCare is *not* the appropriate product for you.

    -steve

     

    Thursday, September 4, 2008 2:20 PM
    Moderator
  •  

    I think you're missing the point. The OneCare message I'm referring to has nothing to do with micro-managing my computers security, configuration options, updates or system prompts.

     

    Annoying us and turning our OneCare status icons red (which I've been ignoring for 3 weeks now) has absolutely nothing to do with OneCare's prime objectives of being transparent security, which I like and appreciate.

     

    Asking Microsoft not to micro-manage the OneCare executable based on what I've done with my wallet has nothing to do with wanting granular control of my PC security settings.

     

    I do agree with you on this: "OneCare is *not* the appropriate product for you."

     

    But keep in mind that your assessment has many of us looking for alternatives to other MS products when we ordinarily wouldn't bother.

     

    OneCare's lack of concern for its customer’s financial privacy has me ready to go with Avast in a week or two when OneCare completely dies... and I'm downloading Google’s new "Chrome" browser as I type this; only because I'm not happy with this particular MS OneCare intrusion, not because I have any desire in the least to go through the hassle of changing browsers.

     

    Regards,

    Albert

     

    UCSD - MCSD

     

    Thursday, September 4, 2008 5:29 PM
  • I think Stephen is missing the point as well. If we use his argument, why does Microsoft let me turn off UAC? Why? Because its a nagging annoyance to those of us who are "advanced" users. 

    The same goes with OneCare. We want to be able to use it. But it needs to be more configurable for "advanced" users. If it's so important, why doesn't OneCare turn ON the automatic updates during installation...(don't tell me its a security feature. *Not* allowing software to turn OFF automatic updates would be the security feature.) 

    Bottom line we want to use it and as professionals, we want to recommend it to friends, family, and coworkers. Currently I am pissed that I've wasted my money and would never recommend OneCare to anyone. 

    Listen to your users, especially those that other people look to for recommendations and advice.


    Thursday, September 4, 2008 5:51 PM
  • Obviously, neither of you have been placed in the situation of needing to manage a PC where no one at the location has any real computer knowledge, or even common online sense for that matter. When those involved in using the computer on a daily basis don't really understand the ramifications of things like turning off Automatic Updates, which they'd also never perform on their own, they must have something built-in to do it for them.

     

    Both Steve and I know why you are arguing against this, since you both have your own good reasons for disabling AU, though we might not agree with this completely ourselves. This is one of the most common ways that many PCs become infected, since many users will forget to re-enable such a setting or perform the updates ever again.

     

    Steve has taken the tack of looking for a potential solution for this and proposing it as a potential future change to OneCare, which is fine. I however, have noticed over time that other than a few more technical users such as yourselves, virtually no one who really needs the support OneCare provides has ever complained about this setting. In fact, this is likely one of the reasons that OneCare has become so successful at protecting the Joe Average non-technical users it was really designed for.

     

    I fully understand why you are frustrated, since you see an otherwise excellent product doing something that you personally don't like. However, that simply proves the point that even those who don't like passing control to others can see the value that OneCare provides. It's the paradox of high-tech computer security today that some of the best products are actually those with the least technical 'in your face' presentation and those providing the least direct user control over its operation.

     

    My guidance to those such as yourselves has been consistent, go get something else. As Steve has aready stated, this is the only sure way to change this situation, since it's unlikely that OneCare development will change something so fundamental to the best practices and effective protection that the product provides to its intended user base.

     

    OneCareBear

    Thursday, September 4, 2008 8:03 PM
    Moderator
  •  

    OneCareBear, You're wrong. You shouldn't make assumptions about what I do for a living. You seem very arrogant. How old are you? Also, you should understand what a best practice is before you start using it.

     

    You haven't answered any of my questions. Here is another:  Why does the "best practice" only apply to OneCare?  Your argument, just like Steve's, is full of holes and this "best practice" is inconsistant with every other microsoft application. Please name a microsoft product that uses the "best practice" where I can't turn it off?

     

    By the way, what method would you like to use to refund my money? I have a paypal account if that is convient for you.

     

    It seems you don't care whether I use or recommend OneCare. This is my last post so you don't need to bother replying with more fluff. I won't be returning to this thread.

    Thursday, September 4, 2008 8:28 PM
  • No, you're assuming everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong.

     

    The best practice is that Automatic Updates should be enabled for systems where the user won't perform them by themselves. Since you apparently feel you can do these yourself, you are not a target user for OneCare, so this may not apply in your case. That doesn't requre that OneCare change, since you were never intended to be interested in it's purchase in the first place. This is why OneCare is provided online as a 90 day free trial, since those who don't prefer this type of protection can determine this without paying for it first.

     

    I really don't care if you recommend it, no, since I'm not an employee of Microsoft and make nothing from the sale of the product. I use it because it's effective at protecting the people who were its intended customers, not because I like every decision made within the product design. The point is that despite some minor differences I might have with specific design choices, OneCare has worked effectively for everyone I've recommended it to. However, I never recommend it to technical individuals for their own use, only for their less technical family and friends.

     

    The funny thing is that as a past Technician, Network Manager/Administrator and current Security Professional, I've seen the failure of most Anti-Malware products over time. Much of this failure has been the result of listening to the customers and adding features to the product based on the preferences of a few 'technical' users. Unfortunately, these technical users are now a very small minority and have very little actual insight into the tendancies of non-technical users.

     

    OneCare was specifically designed to cater to these non-technical users, so it's never surprising when a technical user doesn't like the product, only when they apparently didn't take the time to test it with the available 90 day free trial.

     

    OneCareBear

    Thursday, September 4, 2008 9:02 PM
    Moderator
  • Well said, OneCare Bear! Even us techy types enjoy the simplicity of OneCare. I know I do. I enjoy this program tremendously...

     

    Friday, September 5, 2008 12:26 AM
  •  justmicros wrote:

     

    I think you're missing the point. The OneCare message I'm referring to has nothing to do with micro-managing my computers security, configuration options, updates or system prompts.

     

    No, Albert. I'm not at all missing the point and have been answering this concern for several years with the same thing.

    Turning red because you have chosen to ignore the security offered by OneCare, whether or not you agree with it, is the job of OneCare as designed - it is performing its prime function.

    Yes, asking for more control over the security, selecting what you agree with or don't agree with is indeed managing your own system security, which is contrary to the design of OneCare.

     

    But keep in mind that your assessment has many of us looking for alternatives to other MS products when we ordinarily wouldn't bother.

    OneCare's lack of concern for its customer’s financial privacy has me ready to go with Avast in a week or two when OneCare completely dies... and I'm downloading Google’s new "Chrome" browser as I type this; only because I'm not happy with this particular MS OneCare intrusion, not because I have any desire in the least to go through the hassle of changing browsers.

    I'm sorry, but this seems a bit ridiculous, doesn't it? OneCare has been on the market for a few years. If you wish to use a 3rd party product, you're free to do so. The same goes for the other programs you use and the OS itself, but to state that OneCare's design is the reason to look at alternatives to other Microsoft products - well, that's your choice. Note that I don't work for Microsoft - I volunteer here because I believe in OneCare and want to help people. I may not agree with everything that the designers and developers have done in OneCare, but I believe that it is a great solution for many people.

    And how does the AU setting show a "lack of concern for its customer's financial privacy?"

    -steve

     

    Friday, September 5, 2008 1:34 PM
    Moderator
  •  Next wrote:

     

    OneCareBear, You're wrong. You shouldn't make assumptions about what I do for a living. You seem very arrogant. How old are you? Also, you should understand what a best practice is before you start using it.

     

    You haven't answered any of my questions. Here is another:  Why does the "best practice" only apply to OneCare?  Your argument, just like Steve's, is full of holes and this "best practice" is inconsistant with every other microsoft application. Please name a microsoft product that uses the "best practice" where I can't turn it off?

     

    By the way, what method would you like to use to refund my money? I have a paypal account if that is convient for you.

     

    It seems you don't care whether I use or recommend OneCare. This is my last post so you don't need to bother replying with more fluff. I won't be returning to this thread.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see OneCare recommend a user turn UAC back on if it has been turned off in some future version and then we'll have a whole other item to complain about.

    OneCare Bear made a statement, not an assumption.

    We've answered the questions to the best of our ability - since we are fellow customers, and not employees.

    As for Best Practices - they apply to OneCare because these decisions were made by the people at Microsoft responsible for the design and development of OneCare. They are not the same people who are responsible for hundreds of other Microsoft products.

    If you purchased OneCare online, you need to contact support to inquire about a refund. If you purchased at retail, see this page: http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/productrefund/refund.asp Once again, I'll state that the moderators here are volunteers.

     

    As for your closing line - yes, I care, but I also understand why OneCare is not the product for you. It is unfortunate that this will also cause you to not recommend OneCare to others for which it *is* a valid solution, but that's your choice, too.

    -steve

    Friday, September 5, 2008 1:45 PM
    Moderator
  •  Next wrote:
    why does Microsoft let me turn off UAC? Why? Because its a nagging annoyance to those of us who are "advanced" users. 

    The same goes with OneCare. We want to be able to use it. But it needs to be more configurable for "advanced" users. If it's so important, why doesn't OneCare turn ON the automatic updates during installation...(don't tell me its a security feature. *Not* allowing software to turn OFF automatic updates would be the security feature.) 
     
    I could let this go unanswered. It is only my personal opinion, though.
     
    I believe that UAC is allowed to be turned off because the developers of Vista want you to use Vista, UAC is new to Windows and the developers likely knew that there would be resistance. Personally, I believe that people complaining about UAC are complaining needlessly. I rarely get prompted and when I do I understand why I do and click Yes to proceed. Minor annoyance. And I'm an advanced user. Yes, there are improvements to be made in the way that UAC is implemented, but it works well today.
     
    And, honestly, I would not be surprised if there were heated discussions in the designing of OneCare regarding OneCare turning on AU if it was found to be off and not even telling the user about it. Perhaps we'll even see this changed in the future.
    -steve
    Friday, September 5, 2008 1:52 PM
    Moderator
  • Actually I am at a customers site right now where windows arbitrarilly installed an update on his laptop while running on battery, without the customer's permission. The battery ran out during the update and the computer was toast.

    A $190 service call later, the customer wants updates to ask permission to install. Onecare won't let it.

    Arbitrary automatic updates that restart the computer are one of the biggest security risks to a PC. The thousands of dollars of lost productivity and data and business are incaculable.
    Friday, September 5, 2008 7:58 PM
  • That's strange, whenever I'm on my laptop on battery power and windows has an update to download it tells me it requires an AC power source to continue with the update process. It will not update until I switch to AC power. It seems to detect my power source before it downloads and installs updates. I would think most main line laptops had this feature. Dell does.

    Friday, September 5, 2008 8:43 PM
  • Though a fully ACPI compliant laptop might cause Automatic Updates to pause, that really shouldn't be necessary.

     

    For at least a couple years now, any system where I've had Automatic Updates configured will always ask before it installs any updates. The only time it will actually perform these automatically is the time I have configured in the Automatic Updates Control panel dialog. Otherwise, it will only download the updates and display the yellow shield offering me the option to install whenever I prefer. It will also offer to install the updates when I shut the PC down or restart it, though I can override that also by making the correct selection.

     

    The only ways that your customer could have possibly started an actual Windows Update was to have:

     

    1. Configured his laptop to perform the daily Automatic Update Installation at the time his battery was in use, rather than the normal default of 3:00am. It's always best to leave this configured for the middle of the night, so it doesn't trigger while you're using the PC and otherwise works as I described above.

     

    2. Started the Windows Update himself by clicking on the yellow shield and selecting Next in the dialog box.

     

    3. Shut down or restarted the PC without deselecting the option to perform the Windows Updates that were waiting.

     

    All of these require the user to accept or have selected the configured time in the first place.

     

    It's quite possible that some other program updater, including the one built into OneCare itself might have begun an installation, though I don't know if any of these might also check for battery power before they begin.

     

    In any case, you've made my point quite well, since if this person were to turn off Automatic Updates it's quite unlikely that he'd ever turn them back on or perform the installation of updates when they were available. Both Steve and I have seen many PC desktops with the yellow shield blinking and dozens of updates waiting, never to be installed. This is true of both my commercial customers and individual PC users in general.

     

    Over the last several years with Windows XP, Microsoft has experienced how many of these same PCs end up becoming part of a botnet or infected by malware that steals the owner's personal information (identity theft). The probability of this malware scenario is much more likely than the situation that your client claims to have experienced. So although that one individual might believe he'd be better off with Automatic Updates disabled, he's really just been unlucky and is still uninformed, as the data from the last several years supports exactly the opposite probability.

     

    The other point I haven't made is that OneCare can not change the way that Automatic Updates operate, this would have to be changed by the Windows/Microsoft Update development group, since they control its operation. OneCare can only choose how to manage the display of the fact that Automatic Updates are configured a specific way and nag about that setting. Nothing about this requires you to set AU any specific way, it simply nags you about it if you don't.

     

    OneCareBear

     

    < EDIT > I found a TechNet article that mentions both the fact that Windows XP Service Pack 2 (August 2004) began the installation processes I mentioned above and the battery exception mentioned by Marc Romero in the 'Windows Install Updates and Shutdown Option' section.

     

    Managing Windows XP Service Pack 2 Features Using Group Policy
    Automatic Updates Policy Settings

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb457141.aspx

     

    Though this article also discusses group policy, most of the sections discuss the default operation first.

     

    The following article 'Understanding Windows automatic updating' covers Vista and also mentions battery operation. See 'When are updates installed?

    http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/84fee4a4-2000-4de5-98a9-1e897e87f5661033.mspx

    Saturday, September 6, 2008 3:00 AM
    Moderator
  • This issue is closed as far as my original question is concerned (which by the way, my original issue was never addressed or answered).

     

    I've been told "OneCare isn't for you" because the subscription renewal button is considered critical.

     

    Microsoft doesn't care. Use a different product if you don't want to renew a month before your current subscrition expires.

     

    Recommend and install the OneCare replacement you choose for others if you want. Again, Microsoft doesn't care.

     

    Use Google "Chrome", Quicken and/or any other non-Microsoft products you wan't. Microsoft doesn't care.

     

    That's enough for me moderators. Geeeesss, let it go.

     

    I understand what "we don't care" means.

    Saturday, September 6, 2008 3:28 AM
  • No justmicros, you've been told a dozen times including Steve's first response that NO, there is no way to disable the at-risk warning. You just don't want to hear it, so you don't.

     

    You've been clearly told that you don't have to re-suscribe until your subscription expires, but it will nag you until you do to protect you from forgetting. If you simply re-subscribe now, your new subscription will be added to the end of the old one, so you won't loose any portion of the existing suscription. But you don't like that either.

     

    FYI, Chrome is nothing but a re-compiled stripped down version of Mozilla, which adds no features that don't already exist in any other major browser, except maybe Google Ads? Who'd want it? It can only reduce your security, since like any program you add to your PC it simply adds to the total vulnerabilities your PC contains. But of course you know that, you're a programmer right?

     

    So I'll say again, you as a programmer were never the target market for OneCare, if you'd ever come here and asked I'd have told you that immediately. I have yet to see a serious programmer who can tolerate the level of control that OneCare takes on their development PC. This doesn't make it bad, in fact that's exactly what it's supposed to do for those who don't program, or the other 90% or so of non-technical users.

     

    The fact that it wasn't made for you doesn't mean Microsoft doesn't care, they just know that dozens of other companies already make products that could better suit you. They aren't trying to take over the entire security product market, just the portion for non-technical users who've never had a product designed for them. Now you know how it feels to be on the other side, imagine how the non-technical users have felt up until now.

     

    I'm a highly technical user and I use it on the family PCs I support, plus a couple of my own. I don't, however, use it on all of my own PCs, since for some (Windows 2000, another business desktop with specialty software and commercial protection software) I require other products. That's just common sense, since it wasn't designed for those situations.

     

    OneCareBear

    Saturday, September 6, 2008 4:28 AM
    Moderator
  • 40 minutes ago, I was writing a long email, suddenly, machine automatically shutdowns, and install updates. WHAT. I just lost 45 minutes plus the time writing this.

    Seems your nice Antivirus program have modified the way Windows Update is configured, now is every day 3:00 AM. It does everything without asking.

    Okay, I say. Let’s change windows update to automatically download the updates, but ask me first. So I can choose when the computer will be reset….or at least save my data. Now I have a big At Risk in Red….

    I know you want everything automatically. Fire and Forget. But….

    Or Microsoft change the way the computer updates. or you give the user an option to disable the At Risk in this case.

    This way is unacceptable…

    Thursday, September 11, 2008 6:53 AM
  • Maximo, you have the option to change the time for the updates. You just can't disable the warning and must use the option to install updates, not just prompt.

    -steve

     

    Thursday, September 11, 2008 2:07 PM
    Moderator
  • That nullifies the objective of your previous posts, you want a transparent application that simplifies users life. Remembering when you computer may reset or be proactive on update schedules is not.

    Seems you all overreacted on the affair in here, and don't want to twist their arm. But this is a legitimate problem.

    I can live with nag screens, and auto-update if you don't answer the nag in time. But closing users work, by design, should be not enforced in any way by your program.

    Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:56 PM
  • Maximo, I'm a fellow customer. I have learned to accept the reboot and the current automatic update setting. I think it could be handled much better. I suggest you submit feedback to Microsoft - http://feedback.live.com

    -steve

     

     

    Thursday, September 11, 2008 5:02 PM
    Moderator
  • Your problem is not with OneCare, it's with the Windows Automatic Updates system itself, since that's what performs the default operation. However, I've never seen Automatic Updates reboot a PC without providing a warning first, though the warning may become hidden if you are typing in an application and don't notice when the dialog box flashes on the screen. Also, it's fairly rare that most people would be working on their PC at the default reboot time of 3:00am, though of course this is also easily changed for those who require it.

     

    The real issue here is one of making Automatic Updates a 'pleasant experience' rather than feeling as if it's dictatorial, though by necessity this is exactly what it must be to insure the protection of the PC and thus its users. Though OneCare only enables the already existing Windows/Microsoft Automatic Updates system on the PC, there are some available configuration parameters that might make this more acceptable for a greater number of users.

     

    Though I don't want to get into great detail here, the Blog entry below covers these configuration options quite well and also includes a link to the official "Software Update Services Deployment White Paper" that contains this information.

     

    http://blogs.msdn.com/tim_rains/archive/2004/11/15/257877.aspx

     

    It seems to me that the described 'NoAutoRebootWithLoggedOnUsers' discussion quite clearly indicates both the potential improvement in user experience, but also the increased risk created by the use of this configuration. I can see why the OneCare Team have chosen the more agressive option, since this quite clearly offers the best protection, albiet at the loss of some user friendliness.

     

    Unfortunately, the malware against which OneCare is actually defending sometimes appears quite friendly on the surface, but is often stealing you blind in the background at the same time. This is the real choice you are making, between a high level of protection and a 'nice' user experience. I'll take the high level of protection for those systems I support every time, I've seen the results of the other choice too many times and they're never a 'nice' experience for those involved.

     

    OneCareBear

    Thursday, September 11, 2008 5:25 PM
    Moderator
  • Thanks, just forward my feedback Smile

    Thanks
    OneCareBear for the insight.

    IMHO:
    The problem is you can schedule Windows Update every week, and that actually negates OneCare. i should update you ASAP or else.

    For me, Automatic updates should be checked every hour, and download them according, also it should automatically install everything. If some archives are in use. It should start the nag screen. If the update is critical it can have a countdown. The user will be notified, and for sure the computer will be reset before the week passed.
    But the user should have control on the reset, otherwise the stuff happens to me, can happens to other person, and that other person could lost a valuable document and contact a lawyer. There is a liablity of closing/loosing documents by design. You can extend the EULA, but that is open to interpretation.

    I don't know if yesterday have some critical updates, but for sure, no dialog asking me for reset appeared. Maybe its just my computer bad configured. But before, it'll always nag me. But never reset without asking.


    Thursday, September 11, 2008 5:32 PM
  •  

    The update itself for some of us isn't really that bad but could they at least NOT allow AU to restart my computer!!! I had left some apps running last night and when I came in this morning they were all lost due to AU restarting my computer. Can we at least turn that aspect of AU off? (I'm asking this because you seem to be in the know on it).
    Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:31 PM
  • OneCareBear

    Where does it say that on the box? If that is going to be the attitude of software vendors, and I mean any software, then they should clearly put it on the box or allow me to return it when I find after use that it is a technically inferior product. I have had problems with backup on one machine and the non-customizable nature of the warnings is a real nuisance.

    Perhaps they should have a rating system on the boxes for technical capability. I'll leave the designations to your imagination.

    Becoming Dissatisfied with OneCare AFTER 90 Days
    Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:37 PM
  •  Maximo Piva wrote:
    Thanks, just forward my feedback

    Thanks
    OneCareBear for the insight.

    IMHO:
    The problem is you can schedule Windows Update every week, and that actually negates OneCare. i should update you ASAP or else.

    For me, Automatic updates should be checked every hour, and download them according, also it should automatically install everything. If some archives are in use. It should start the nag screen. If the update is critical it can have a countdown. The user will be notified, and for sure the computer will be reset before the week passed.
    But the user should have control on the reset, otherwise the stuff happens to me, can happens to other person, and that other person could lost a valuable document and contact a lawyer. There is a liablity of closing/loosing documents by design. You can extend the EULA, but that is open to interpretation.

    I don't know if yesterday have some critical updates, but for sure, no dialog asking me for reset appeared. Maybe its just my computer bad configured. But before, it'll always nag me. But never reset without asking.

     

    However, as you have already proven most won't ever even change the default setting of every day at 3:00am, though you have the ability if you wish, so there's already a fairly large range of options available. The real issue is that once the updates have been installed, the PC should really be restarted A.S.A.P. since it is in an indeterminate state which might cause stability and even security issues.

     

    Windows Automatic Updates on Windows XP checks for updates everfy 18 hours by default, as I recall, downloads any that are avilable, then waits until the next time scheduled to perform the installation.

     

    I think I may have discovered how an apparent reboot without warning could appear to occur. I read in a comment somewhere that the dialog requesting that you reboot can be answered by pressing the space bar, which accepts the default action of reboot. If this is true, which I haven't confirmed, then if you happened to press the space bar just at the moment the dialog box appeared, it would immediately reboot the PC. In this case you might never actually notice the dialog, even if it displayed for a split second, since you're paying attention to typing your email message.

     

    OneCareBear

    Friday, September 12, 2008 4:43 AM
    Moderator
  •  mschore wrote:

     

    The update itself for some of us isn't really that bad but could they at least NOT allow AU to restart my computer!!! I had left some apps running last night and when I came in this morning they were all lost due to AU restarting my computer. Can we at least turn that aspect of AU off? (I'm asking this because you seem to be in the know on it).

    Please thisk about this for a minute. What happens if the PC looses power, or something else on the PC happens to fail?

     

    It's really just a bad policy to leave programs with files open, since any kind of issue could reboot the PC or corrupt files.

     

    I think the only valid complaint is that someone doesn't wish to reboot immediately and needs to complete some work. However, this is really how it works already, though it does nag quite often (every 5 minutes I believe) by default. That's why I pointed out one of a few options I've seen that increase this time or turn off the reboot altogether.

     

    OneCareBear

    Friday, September 12, 2008 4:51 AM
    Moderator
  • OneCareBear and Steve - Please you guys are dead wrong. I agree with you that some Microsoft products are not for us software developers. But, it is just arragoance to think that Microsoft and some late to the market, rookie team of One Care personell should control our computers. I don't want ANYONE controlling my computer. It is NOT good for any user's laptop to randomly reboot when they plug in their laptop and find out, after doing work for 10 minutes, that automatic updates were installed. Automatic updates is turned off by us saavy users for a reason. If you want to build a competative product you should base your arguements on more user feedback instead of just arguing ignorantly on newsgroups. I'm sure a survey would result in a lot of users demanding the one care red and yellow balloons being configurable.
    Friday, October 31, 2008 4:50 PM
  • You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. I've stated mine repeatedly - I don't like the simplistic way that OneCare handles AU monitoring and I also hate my PC being rebooted when I didn't expect it to be rebooted. As I've also stated repeatedly, I'm quite sure that the decision for forcing this setting on us was discussed and even argues vehemently amongst those responsible for the design of OneCare. And, please don't accuse us of arguing, ignorantly, or otherwise. I'm not arguing the point, I'm stating my opinions. I would like to see this setting handled differently, but I do not think that it should allow a user to turn off automatic updates completely and still remain green/good status, particularly if updates are not installed.

    -steve

     

    Friday, October 31, 2008 6:34 PM
    Moderator
  • thank you Stephen Boots -

    This is the answer I spent 2 hours on the phone with OneCare tech support to get.  I only wanted to know if it was possible to have OneCare NOT change my automatic update settings for me, and the tech support person was unable to find this answer even after I explained it clearly five times, and he spoke to his upper level tech for information.

    OneCare seems to have been made to give security for "dummies" (no offense intended to anyone).  For those who are not very versed in what updates for windows are or why they are important and it seems to function only for those who want everything done for them.

    I have a computer degree and with Windows Vista I have noticed that it does not tell me when it begins to download updates automatically, only when it goes to install them later.  It's the automatic downloading I seem to have problems with since it taxes my internet connection horribly.  (I have DSL.)  I turn off the auto updating and have it notify me when there is an update so I can pause what I am doing to download and install it without having it crash my computer because I have no idea it's trying to do this at the same time I am trying to do other things.

    OneCare doesn't like that I function this way and tries to do it for me by warning me and then sometimes turning on the update feature without my permission, once again, causing a freeze because I have no idea it did this.

    I wish either OneCare had advanced user options for those of us users who DO know what we are doing (with a disclaimer) and an automatic and easy setting for others.  Either that or that windows vista told you when it was going to start a download automatically (I have home premium edition 32 bit).  It would make my life easier.

    I like the OneCare program, but since it will not work with my intelligence level, I am going to go ahead and get rid of it in favor of other non-microsoft products for protection that allow me to handle my own settings.

    For the record - it's slightly insulting that a program microsoft charges for has the "concept that users don't always make the best choices."  That's a general assumption.
    Thursday, June 4, 2009 8:43 PM
  • I'm sorry that support wasn't able to answer you. This behavior in OneCare has been around since it's earliest beta days and I complained about the simplistic approach to the Program Manager in person. <g> (Since they didn't change it, you can see that my complaint wasn't acted upon!)
    Keep your eye out for the release of Morro later this year by Microsoft. It will be a free antimalware product that will replace OneCare, which is at end of life (annoucement above).
    -steve

    Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare & Live Mesh Forum Moderator
    Friday, June 5, 2009 1:31 PM
    Moderator