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Backup file size VS. Updated Backup file size (now indicating an "EMPTY" backup folder...) RRS feed

  • Question

  •  

    During my Second "backup" which finally successfully ran two weeks ago, I had a backup file equaling about 3/4 the overall volume of the data contained on my HDD... Considering I did a "full" system backup that seemed correct, bearing in mind double files, and compression.. ? or so I thought.

     

    Last weekend when my backup ran... it completed successfully, or so the report indicated. So I didn't bother to check it over, as far as the "file size" was concerned. Today I was hooking up my dedicated external backup HDD, so tonight when the program runs, everything is good to go... Well in checking over the backup from last week, which should have been a "write over..." of the "New or Changed" files from the "Full" backup of "All" file types the previous week. I noted that the folder containing the backup file still contains two files, one folder labled "XP Backup," only now it indicates that the folder is "EMPTY" with no data volume at all and a "System" file; "DO_NOT_DELETE.mediaID" with a stated file volume

    of 1 KB... if you try to "Open" the folder, you are prompted that it can not be "opened..." and I didn't attempt to open the system file, for obvious reasons.

     

    The overall HDD volume indicates that there is still about 9 GB of data used, which is about right in comparison to the HDD this drive is backing up... What I want to know is this:

     

    Why did the "volume" of the folder change? From almost 9 GB prior to last weekends "Backup" to "EMPTY" now...

     

    Is the data actually still there... ? Even though the folder is indicating that it is "EMPTY"

     

    Should I need to access this backup in the case of a failure... what is the process, I realize that it is probably somewhere in the documentation, but for the sake of including a brief explanation here... I would appreciate it, I have actually never used "backup" procedures prior to this... and while I understand the principles invloved, I am suprised these files don't give you any access to the "backup" of your documents... Provided that they are "really" still there...

     

    Can I access anything in this "Backup" file... or is it "Only" for a System Failure... and then I will have to load the OneCare program again... and Recover the backup files via OneCare... Thus restoring my OS, drivers, updates, doc's... etc.

     

    ** ** ** ** ** ** **

     

    Additionally... Today against my better judgement, and considering that "Overall..." the OneCare Program does work as advertised... all be it with a number of "Issues" as yet "Unresolved..." I "bought" the CD via a local Retail Store...

     

    The reason for the edit is as follows:

     

    I note that the booklet contained with my "Key" indicates that OneCare "Backup":

     

     "Easily restores specific file or all files backed up from your PC in the event of data loss"

     

    This would seem counter to the actual situation I have encountered... there does not appear to be "any" way to access the backup to recover a specific file... and further the text indicates that I could create a CD or DVD via my system... while I have a DVD writer, and it was "located" by the OneCare backup program... It would not or could not send the backup file created to it... I tried to "set" the default to write a disk, and it wouldn't accept either of my DVD Writers, with or without a blank disk in the drive...(DVD-RW/DL) Nor would it send the backup file to my "Secondary Internal HDD" It is properly formatted and in my "System folder" although apparently it is not "available" to OneCare...? This one of my now two week old pending "Service Requests..." as yet unanswered...

     

    Hopefully now that I have "Paid" for the OneCare service... I will be getting some sort of responce to both of my "Open" Service Requests... one can only hope... But while I continue to wait... any help on this backup situation would be most appreciated... Thank You-

     

     

    Sunday, February 3, 2008 1:40 AM

Answers

  • Having determined the process for "Configuring" the Optical Drive... All that remains is that the disk needs to be:

    1) Inserted "After" the config is completed, whether doing an "on the spot" or a "weekly" backup-

    2) The disk used needs to be a +R due to the incompatability with/of +RW disks-

    2a) A new +R disk needs to be used for "Every" backup due to the lack of overwrite ability-

    3) While the backup is "Actually" there... although not "visable" it is none the less available via the Restore command-

     

    Lastly, if I wish to use my "Secondary Internal HDD" as the backup destination I need to:

    1) Make sure it is "shared" in the "Circle/Network"

    2) Create a "Folder" called Share or Backup... basicly something that OneCare will reconize as the destination

    3) There is no need for OneCare to be installed on the Secondary Internal HDD... (?? I still need to confirm this...)

     

    As I see it, I think that wraps up this situation... I didn't think that NERO, really had any place in the situation, I just mentioned it to indicate what "other" writers and drivers I had available to illistrate the "process" for creating disks that I was fimilar with, and to indicate that my drivers and my optical drive were "Not" I suspected the cause of the "issue." Which in the end was apparently just a bit of "Formatting" on the part of how the configuraton was handled... not ultimatly a software issue but a process issue... Although the information on the disks themselves is important to note. I guess that if I wish to create a backup disk, it will be a process I carry out perhaps every 6 months or so just so that I have a hard copy to fall back to in the case of a major system failure. I cannot see running the backup weekly and using a "new" disk every time... that just doesn't seem practical to me. Now that I have purchased the External Encloseure to use with a spare HDD... that seems like the most effective solution. If I can get my secondary internal HDD to function, that will be a plus, so I will give it another try and see if your final suggestion works...

     

    As for the "Empty" file situaiton in the backup folder... I think we can assume it is "Not" actually empty, just not being reconized by Windows for some reason... The overall volume on the drive, considering it is dedicated and has no other data on it... pretty much confirms that the backup data is there, just only accessable to the "Restore" process... Which is fine, as long as its not corrupted... I just wish there was a way to confirm its functionallity... When my system crashed a couple months ago... due to a partial failure of one of a pair of HDD's in a RAID zero configuration ... My "recovery" was hampered by the fact that I had been backing up my files for weeks... only to find out that my bad HDD was not backing up its "share" of the RAID data... Though the good HDD was... So in the end what I "recovered" was... All the file folders for XP and my Documents... but "Nothing" in them... It appeared as though my backups were fine... when in reallity all I had was "EMPTY" folders... with no contents... therefore my 'Data" was all gone... So you can understand my concern over finding "Empty" folders when trying to determine if my "Backup" was working correctly.... I hope.

     

    Again, Steve... Thank You for all your help, and the prompt responces to my issues/posts... You are a credit to this program... I only wish I could say the same for the "OneCare Customer Service Dept." I continue to "Wait" for their responce(s)... or solutions to these situations... But I really appreciate all your help... Thank You- John

    Wednesday, February 6, 2008 1:52 AM
  • I have been working on the phone and via ldirect ink to my desktop with the OneCare Customer Service Dept... We got that "Network Share" situation taken care of... but also apparently there was another "Issue..."

     

    When I formatted G:\ Drive, after installation to the tower... while I did correctly set the partition to "Basic" and configured it correctly for my "System" I apparently set the drive as "Hidden" from outside connections... Once the drive was "Un-Hidden" the Network Share connected just fine... and OneCare Reconized the Drive... I have just completed a "limited" backup... the Tech. is going to be contacting me shortly to figure out how to get a "Full" backup. Apparently since a "Full" backup has previously been run on the system, it doesn't know the difference between the various backup destinations, nor did it reconize that the "New" drive location didn't have the "previous" backup on it... I will post the final outcome here later today. It would appear the whole issue was caused by the "Hidden" aspect of the drive, when it was "originally" Formatted/Installed a setting. As we went through the list of possible issues, I don't doubt we would have gotten to it too.

     

    I did make serious mention to him about what I felt was "Extremely Poor" Customer Service, with reguards to the duration of time it took for someone to get back to me... He aggreed with my observation that had I not "Paid" for the service even with 70+ days left on my Trial Subscription, I would "Still" be waiting... He indicated that he has a "Meeting" with the "Development Team" this afternoon and that he would discuss my concerns reguarding Service Proceedures relating to "Trial Subscriptions" and agreed that I should not have had to wait nor been left hanging as I was... I hope that in the future they address this situation, and I explained that had I not received the level of Prompt and Courteous Assistance from the Forums that I did... I would not be buying this service... and that the lack of communication from Customer Service was unacceptable.

     

    Thank You Again for all your help- John

    Thursday, February 7, 2008 4:23 PM

All replies

  • The backup folder is protected by OneCare. You can view the files for restore by performing a custom restore from within OneCare.

    Yes, in the event of needing to do a restore, you need to install OneCare first, and then it can restore your backed up data.

    Note also that incremental backups do not overwrite the prior backups, but updates the catalog of files - the map of your current PC drive state - and saves the new and changes files in addition to the previously backed up files.

    -steve

     

    Monday, February 4, 2008 5:24 PM
    Moderator
  • Sorry...missed the latter part of your post.

    If your backup plan is configured to backup to the external drive, to change the location you need to start a new full backup, abandoning the external drive backup.

    Open OneCare

    Click Change Settings

    backup tab

    Click change settings in the lower left

    Make sure that the first screen for Centralized Backup has "No Centralized backup" selected

    Click your PC on the left.

    Uncheck the selection for "Turn on backup for this PC."

    Click Next and save the revised plan.

     

    Go back to the backup tab and click Change Settings in the lower left once again.

    Select your PC and click.

    Click Turn on backup

    Select the change location link and select the drive you want to use for backup

    Modify the schedule as desired for "When"

    Select the file types as desired for "What"

    Click next and save the revised plan with the new selection.

     

    And, OneCare cannot perform a backup "to" an internal drive except by using Centralized Backup and a workaround that involves creating a network Share on the internal drive.

     

    -steve

    Monday, February 4, 2008 5:26 PM
    Moderator
  • Thank you, once again for your prompt responce to my inquiry... and concerns. The process you indicate here is precisely the one that I took when I first attempted to configure my OneCare backup plan... I was able to "Set" the default and select the optical drive, OneCare accepted the configuration... then when the first scheduled backup ran... I awoke to a "Notice" stating that the backup was unable to "Run" due to an inability of OneCare to "Reconize" my optical drive... Even though I had a blank DVD-RW/DL installed and the volume of data to be written was below the "Dual Layer" abilities of the disk... having previously done a backup via the existing XP backup procedures.

     

    While attempting to resolve this issue, I ran a number of directed attempts at backing up my system and selected both of my optical drives individually... to the same end... OneCare for some reason I don't understand wouldn't allow or configure either one of my optical drives "Properly" such that a backup could be written via one of them... Which is the point I attempted to utilize my "Secondary Internal HDD" which is a dedicated, backup for all my files... photos, etc. I had a complete failure of one of my two RAID 0 configured drives and lost everything a couple months ago... and since then, I would much rather have a backup on something other than an HDD... DVD's are much more reliable and not prone to corruption or other disasters once written... and fit nicely into a fire safe...

     

    What I had suspected the issue to be in this case was that this particular HDD does not contain an "OS" it is just an NTFS formatted 160 GB drive, with a correct drive letter assigned in "My Computer/ System Folder" again, for reasons which I don't understand, and considering that the XP Backup configuration was able to utilize this HDD to write a backup to it with no difficulty... as with the previous situation with the optical drive... I confirmed that the HDD was "available" to the system by writting a  "compltete system file backup" to it.... all be it via my OS, not OneCare...

     

    So as you can see, I have attempted a number of work-a-rounds to this situation, and thought it out prior to writting my Forum thread, I don't seem to be able to format any other option than the one I finally did... Go out and buy another "External HDD housing" for one of my spare IDE HDD's and configure another HDD to my system... because even if I could get OneCare to accept my "Secondary Internal HDD" there is no way to apply a "Network" setting to it since it has no Operating System to install OneCare to and thus call it into a Network... I have tried that already too, to no avail... at least that is what I surmise my situation to be...

     

    Lastly, I am not sure you addressed my question about the "Empty" folder situation... Is the "Data" still there even though the folder indicates its empty...? I went into the "restore" setup area, and while I didn't follow through completly with a restore, since I don't have a file which needs restoring... I will assume that I will be able to access it via this process... and hope for the best should I need to backup a lost file... Also, I really wished that there was a "Spell Check" that would work here in the forum thread... I downloaded the "iespell" to use else were in Microsoft... but it does not work here... just in the beta of Live Office... too bad, might be something to consider... I know there are mis-spelled words in my text... a bit frustrating for those of us who rely on it...

    Monday, February 4, 2008 8:47 PM
  • I'll work backwards through your post.

     

    Yes, I also overlooked addressing the apparently empty folder. OneCare protects the folder, so it appears as empty to you. You can take ownership of the folder and see the files. You would need to right click and select permissions, depending on the OS (pro, Home, etc), but the restore process in OneCare will see the files.

     

    You can indeed create a network Share on the other internal drive. From Instant Help:

    Set user permissions for a centralized backup device

    Before you can use a shared network drive or external hard disk as a central backup device for all computers in your OneCare circle, you must make sure that all users on the network have the correct permissions to access it.

    By default, Windows XP uses simple file sharing. If the centralized backup device is connected to a computer that's running Windows XP Home Edition, all users on the network automatically have the correct permissions to access the device. However, if the centralized backup device is connected to a computer that's running Windows XP Professional Edition or Windows Vista, simple file sharing is turned off when you create a backup plan that uses a centralized backup device. Before you can access the device from other computers in your circle, you must set permissions that allow access to all users.

    To configure the shared backup device so that all users on the network can access it:
    1. On the computer that the backup device is connected to, navigate to the appropriate backup folder or drive.
    2. Right-click the backup folder or drive, and then click Properties.
    3. In Windows XP, on the Sharing tab, click Share this folder, and then click Permissions.

      –or–

      In Windows Vista, on the Sharing tab, click Advanced Sharing. Click Share this folder, and then click Permissions.

    4. Under Group or user names, make sure that Everyone is selected.
    5. Under Permissions for Everyone, in the Allow column, select the Full Control check box

    Finally, for the optical drives, have you tried backing up to plain old DVD-R single layer media? I suspect that the media you were trying to use may be at fault. The burning software used by OneCare may not understand DL for your drives, despite the fact that it is supported by other burning software.

     

    -steve

    Tuesday, February 5, 2008 1:47 AM
    Moderator
  • I can not believe what just happened... I was proof reading my reply, and confirming my informaton when my page "Terminated..." it was "Timed out by the Forum Server..." I just lost about a half hour worth of typing and documention.... That sucks... hope I remember all the stuff I was trying to get to you...

     

    I will check into the "Ownership" situation of the backup file, but as for the "Share" aspect of the Secondary Internal HDD, it is already set to "Share the Folder" and the user limit is set to "Manimum Allowed" Although when I attempted to open the "Permissions" as you instructed, I received a "Error/Warning" stating that "This has been shared for Administrative purposes. The Permissions cannot be set." Therefore I was unable to complet your instructions, although it would appear that the drive is as "Shared" as it can be...

     

    Secondly, I am running XP Pro, and also have Office 2000 Pro installed on the Single Central Computer/Hub on the OneCare Service, and that is the Tower I am using presently... although I do have two other computers connected to my DSL modum, two of the three I own are running Micorsoft OS's, and "communicate" between each other, although it had to be done "manually" due to the 98SE network situation of the second tower... The third unit, is actually a "server" not functioning as one presently, and running PCLinuxOS 2007... so that is entirely bear of a different tribe... Back to the XP Pro Tower.... The secondary HDD, has no OS, and is listed as shared... but will not accept "Networking" for some reason... although its listed as "Shared" and XP has directed a system backup to it... as discribed above... So what else can be done in this situation, I don't know...

     

    Lastly, the DVD+R(W) vs DVD+RW/DL backup solution...  I will give this a try, it was a dual layer disk that I attempted to use previously due to the overall volume of my system backup... and I am running NERO 8 Ultra, with a brand new DVD Writer... the XP backup used virtually a whole DL disk, so I figured that OneCare would do the same... Will it "compress" the file, so it fits on a single layer disk... considering this runs in the middle of the night... I wouldn't be watching it to insert a "second" disk... also would I use a "Re-Writeable" disk insted of a single use disk? So that it would be used "again" the following week... when the "new/updated" backup was created... Or would a "Disk" backup not be considered a "Weekly" backup... but a "Final" hard copy... only done now and then to create a "Earthquake, flood... Katrina" proof type disk... not a regular weekly backup...?

     

    Finally, I would like to say Thank You, for all your assistance... your help has been both timely and appreciated. I don't understand what is going on with my "Service Requests" but now that I have "PAID" for the OneCare Service... I "Expect" that these will be addressed... I will commend your performance I have been receiveing when I get the opportunity... as well as express my distain for the lack of service rendered by the OneCare Customer Service Dept. Although, I wanted to express my appreciation to you... Thank You-

    Tuesday, February 5, 2008 4:07 AM
  • Here are the follow-up "Answers" relating to my previous post:

     

    As for the "Ownership" of the backup folder, it is set to "Allow Everyone on the Network Access" and Permissions are set to "Full" although it will still not allow me to access the folder, and remains "apparently" empty... at least when the "Properties" tab is accessed... Though as I indicated earlier, the overall volume of the HDD indicates that this is not the case... I suspect that while the "Folder" has the indicated "Ownership" and "Permissions" set correctly for the backup to occure... The files are there, just not accessable or viewable... and had I continued with the "Restore" I began when investigating this situation yesterday... Perhaps... I would be able to "View" individual files, or at least I would hope so... for the sake of repairing a "Individual" lost or damaged file... That being said, I think I will continue to backup my Documents In Progress as I have been... by Saving them to my "Local Disk" as usual and then saving a "Copy" to my Secondary Internal HDD for a rainy day... While running the OneCare Weekly System wide backup, as scheduled to maintain the overall health of my computer.

     

    On the DVD Drive situation... I did manage to get the drive "Configured," although the process was not what I would have considered nominal. The Drive had to be configured via the OneCare backup proceedures, only "Without" a disk in the drive... even for a "Backup Now" situation where you wanted to run a backup on the spot as it were... There cannot be a blank disk in the drive prior to the configuration, only "After" the configuration is complete are you able to insert the disk to be written to... For some reason, when the disk is inserted prior to configuration, it would appear that OneCare sees that drive as "Taken" or otherwise "Unavailable" and will not allow the drive to be designated as the backup drive... Which from past experiance writting disks, is a bit counter intuative... usually you must insert the media to be written to, "Prior" to the designation of the drive... so that it can be "scanned" or otherwise "verified" as suitable for the writting process... Apparently that is not the process with OneCare, hence the issue which I encountered... My final "Question" thus remains: "Will OneCare ReWrite over a disk with a previous backup on it?" In otherwords, to utilize a DVD-RW and as new backup files are nessissary, re-write to the disk and add to it the "new/changed" files... as you would on an HDD or the usual use of a "RW" disk...?

     

    To also mention it... The overall volume of the backup I attempted to write was 3.3 GB, so I can only assume that since the overall volume of my HDD is almost 9 GB... that inorder to put the backup onto a single DVD... OneCare is somehow "Compressing" the data... Either that or it is selectively backing up files... and not following my settings for a "Full" backup... any idea which...? This may explain why I am unable to or doubtful that "Individual" files can be accessed... Ultimatly I may have to "Create" a test file and damage or other wise corrupt it... and see what happens when I attempt to "Restore" it via the OneCare Backup... Although I don't know that I really want to carry out that kind of a "Test..." it seems a bit like messing with fire... What do you think?

    Tuesday, February 5, 2008 1:09 PM
  •  scoutxlt wrote:

    I will check into the "Ownership" situation of the backup file, but as for the "Share" aspect of the Secondary Internal HDD, it is already set to "Share the Folder" and the user limit is set to "Manimum Allowed" Although when I attempted to open the "Permissions" as you instructed, I received a "Error/Warning" stating that "This has been shared for Administrative purposes. The Permissions cannot be set." Therefore I was unable to complet your instructions, although it would appear that the drive is as "Shared" as it can be...

    You're welcome, of course. :-)

     

    And, sorry about the loss of your post due to forum problems...

     

    You will need to create a folder on the drive - call it "backup" or whatever you desire, and then Share that.

     

    The fact the Nero is installed, may or may not be an issue with the backup to DVD by OneCare, but it should not. OneCare will use its own burning routines and pays no attention to 3rd party software. There have been many problems reported with RW discs, especially if you try to erase it and use it again, so I suggest plain R.

     

    When it uses the first disc, you'll be prompted to insert another. Backup to CD/DVD doesn't allow for unattended backup.

     

    -steve

     

     

    Tuesday, February 5, 2008 9:00 PM
    Moderator
  • OneCare does compress the data into .zip files. And, yes, individual files can be restored from the backup. You don't need to damage any files to do the restore. If you select a custom restore, it will not overwrite an existing file, but can restore to an alternate location.

    I think I answered the other questions in my other reply. Let me know if I overlooked any.

    -steve

     

    Tuesday, February 5, 2008 9:06 PM
    Moderator
  • Having determined the process for "Configuring" the Optical Drive... All that remains is that the disk needs to be:

    1) Inserted "After" the config is completed, whether doing an "on the spot" or a "weekly" backup-

    2) The disk used needs to be a +R due to the incompatability with/of +RW disks-

    2a) A new +R disk needs to be used for "Every" backup due to the lack of overwrite ability-

    3) While the backup is "Actually" there... although not "visable" it is none the less available via the Restore command-

     

    Lastly, if I wish to use my "Secondary Internal HDD" as the backup destination I need to:

    1) Make sure it is "shared" in the "Circle/Network"

    2) Create a "Folder" called Share or Backup... basicly something that OneCare will reconize as the destination

    3) There is no need for OneCare to be installed on the Secondary Internal HDD... (?? I still need to confirm this...)

     

    As I see it, I think that wraps up this situation... I didn't think that NERO, really had any place in the situation, I just mentioned it to indicate what "other" writers and drivers I had available to illistrate the "process" for creating disks that I was fimilar with, and to indicate that my drivers and my optical drive were "Not" I suspected the cause of the "issue." Which in the end was apparently just a bit of "Formatting" on the part of how the configuraton was handled... not ultimatly a software issue but a process issue... Although the information on the disks themselves is important to note. I guess that if I wish to create a backup disk, it will be a process I carry out perhaps every 6 months or so just so that I have a hard copy to fall back to in the case of a major system failure. I cannot see running the backup weekly and using a "new" disk every time... that just doesn't seem practical to me. Now that I have purchased the External Encloseure to use with a spare HDD... that seems like the most effective solution. If I can get my secondary internal HDD to function, that will be a plus, so I will give it another try and see if your final suggestion works...

     

    As for the "Empty" file situaiton in the backup folder... I think we can assume it is "Not" actually empty, just not being reconized by Windows for some reason... The overall volume on the drive, considering it is dedicated and has no other data on it... pretty much confirms that the backup data is there, just only accessable to the "Restore" process... Which is fine, as long as its not corrupted... I just wish there was a way to confirm its functionallity... When my system crashed a couple months ago... due to a partial failure of one of a pair of HDD's in a RAID zero configuration ... My "recovery" was hampered by the fact that I had been backing up my files for weeks... only to find out that my bad HDD was not backing up its "share" of the RAID data... Though the good HDD was... So in the end what I "recovered" was... All the file folders for XP and my Documents... but "Nothing" in them... It appeared as though my backups were fine... when in reallity all I had was "EMPTY" folders... with no contents... therefore my 'Data" was all gone... So you can understand my concern over finding "Empty" folders when trying to determine if my "Backup" was working correctly.... I hope.

     

    Again, Steve... Thank You for all your help, and the prompt responces to my issues/posts... You are a credit to this program... I only wish I could say the same for the "OneCare Customer Service Dept." I continue to "Wait" for their responce(s)... or solutions to these situations... But I really appreciate all your help... Thank You- John

    Wednesday, February 6, 2008 1:52 AM
  • Lastly, if I wish to use my "Secondary Internal HDD" as the backup destination I need to:

    1) Make sure it is "shared" in the "Circle/Network"

    2) Create a "Folder" called Share or Backup... basicly something that OneCare will reconize as the destination

    3) There is no need for OneCare to be installed on the Secondary Internal HDD... (?? I still need to confirm this...)

     

    You can call the shared folder anything you want - *you* need to recognize it. :-) OneCare can use any folder, but it needs to be a "network share" with permissions set for all users to be able to change files in that Share.

    No, OneCare is only installed to Windows. Your secondary drive is simply a data drive to the operating system, which lives on the %system% drive, typically c:\

     

    You're welcome. You caught me on my last sweep before closing the browser down for the evening!

    -steve

    Wednesday, February 6, 2008 2:02 AM
    Moderator
  • As for the Secondary Internal HDD, that would appear to be the case...  it is set as "Shared, for All in the OneCare network/circle" with "All" being myself/Admin., and the one computer... within which this drive is installed. XP Pro is installed on local disk C:\  (actually two brand new WD 80GB HDD's in RAID Zero) and the Secondary Internal drive (One Seagate 160GB HDD) is labled as: G:\ which is also "Shared" within XP system environment as well, although again it has no OS, its just an NTFS formatted disk that I can write/save to the from anywhere within local C:\... Further G:\ drive is configured as the "Backup Destination" for XP's own backup plan... and I actually have run it a number of times prior to downloading OneCare, as well as creating a "Recovery Disk Set" which is set aside as my "End of the World" backup...

     

    The problem aside from this "Empty" folder situation we seem to have resolved... is that OneCare wouldn't "Reconize" the drive located "In" my Tower. I can get the External HDD Configured with no difficulty, that actually would appear to be OneCare's "Prefered" backup destination, if I were to go by how hassle free the configuration was for an External Encloseure. Also once I figured out how to "correctly" configure the Optical Drive, that situation  is pretty streight forward... (now) But nothing I have tried as yet seems to work for getting this internal HDD in the "circle." From what I can tell, it is shared correctly, it is formatted correctly, and it is working correctly within the Windows Environment. The last thing I have to try is putting this "Designated" file/folder on the drive and making sure it is "Reconized" by the OneCare backup plan... but if that doesn't work, I am at a loss. Tonight I will go through this final process and see whether I can get it properly reconized. I will let you know what happens in the morning.

     

    Thanks Again for all your help... John

    Wednesday, February 6, 2008 3:26 AM
  • I put that "designated" folder in  G:\ so that OneCare has somewhere to direct the backup plan... OneCare will not accept the file location... I named it pretty obviously "OneCare backup file" and followed the path correctly which was actually G:\ OneCare backup file... and the configuration "wizard" wouldn't accept the file... indicating it wouldn't accept the "name" and kicked me back an example \\system\server (why its turning into a hyperlink here is another matter altogether) but that is what OneCare suggested I name the file... Which as I am sure you are aware is "Impossible" within Windows... no symbols are allowed for file names... The file I created was also "Shared" at the "Full" level with all available access designated... it was "Wide Open" as it were... But OneCare still wouldn't accept the file... Nor allow the Drive to be designated as a Backup destination... 

     

    I did finally receive an email from a "New" OneCare Customer Service Rep. and I replied to his email... but as yet I have not heard back... via email or phone, as I did instruct him to call me and provided my phone number... If he comes up with a "Solution" beyond what we have discussed, I will post it here as an answer... Considering it is part of this "Backup" situation... If you want to link it to another forum, or Indicate a better place to post it... I would be happy to work with you on it... but as of now, that situation remains unresolved. 

    Wednesday, February 6, 2008 10:57 PM
  • I know we've had quite a series of posts here, and my brain is fuzzy right now, but...

     

    That folder you created on the internal drive has to be a Network Share.

    The example of \\system\share is a URL due to the forum software.

     

    If your PC is called "Bob" and the shared folder has been given a network shared name of "Backups" the path is \\Bob\Backups

     

    Set user permissions for a centralized backup device

    Before you can use a shared network drive or external hard disk as a central backup device for all computers in your OneCare circle, you must make sure that all users on the network have the correct permissions to access it.

    By default, Windows XP uses simple file sharing. If the centralized backup device is connected to a computer that's running Windows XP Home Edition, all users on the network automatically have the correct permissions to access the device. However, if the centralized backup device is connected to a computer that's running Windows XP Professional Edition or Windows Vista, simple file sharing is turned off when you create a backup plan that uses a centralized backup device. Before you can access the device from other computers in your circle, you must set permissions that allow access to all users.

    To configure the shared backup device so that all users on the network can access it:
    1. On the computer that the backup device is connected to, navigate to the appropriate backup folder or drive.
    2. Right-click the backup folder or drive, and then click Properties.
    3. In Windows XP, on the Sharing tab, click Share this folder, and then click Permissions.

      –or–

      In Windows Vista, on the Sharing tab, click Advanced Sharing. Click Share this folder, and then click Permissions.

    4. Under Group or user names, make sure that Everyone is selected.
    5. Under Permissions for Everyone, in the Allow column, select the Full Control check box.

    Note that you *must* use Centralized backup if you wish to backup to a drive inside your computer. You cannot create a backup plan to use a Share located on your PC on an internal drive for a single PC backup.

     

    -steve

    Thursday, February 7, 2008 2:48 AM
    Moderator
  •  

    I named the Folder "OneCare backup file"  and when I used the "Configure Backup" wizard, accessed the "Browse" feature and directed it to the correct location G:\ OneCare backup file... at which time I received that notice indicating that OneCare wouldn't accept the "Name" and the box contained the example \\server\share suggesting that was what my file ought "to say...? or look like...?" I am not sure which... So when I tried to input it in a form like that I got the Windows warning about "symbols" in file names....

     

    The share permissions are set for a "Centeralized backup device" also... and have been right along, aside from when I was trying to configure the Optical drive, but I reconfigured them back after I got the Optical drive to function correctly... So they are again set to "Centeralized"


    Thursday, February 7, 2008 3:22 AM
  •  scoutxlt wrote:

     

    I will check into the "Ownership" situation of the backup file, but as for the "Share" aspect of the Secondary Internal HDD, it is already set to "Share the Folder" and the user limit is set to "Manimum Allowed" Although when I attempted to open the "Permissions" as you instructed, I received a "Error/Warning" stating that "This has been shared for Administrative purposes. The Permissions cannot be set." Therefore I was unable to complet your instructions, although it would appear that the drive is as "Shared" as it can be...

     

     

    I did check this earlier... and this was what I discovered... Not sure what more I can do on this situation... The Drive is "shared"  to "All on the Network & Circle" and also listed in "My Computer" as such... and the new "Folder/file" I created in G:\ is as well. I can't imagine either of them being any more wide open than they are set... OneCare just doesn't want to access the G:\ disk for some reason, my other attempts are written in the previous cell or two... Let me know what you think...

     

    Lastly, The "New" Rep. never got back to me today... also the Service Request "File Number" is for the most part the same, although it does have a few extra charactors in it now, if you would like it let me know... At least this one included an email address for his "Supervisor..." If he doesn't get back to me, I will not tolerate the lack of communication as I have been, now that I am a paying OneCare customer...

    Thursday, February 7, 2008 3:35 AM
  •  scoutxlt wrote:

     

    I named the Folder "OneCare backup file"  and when I used the "Configure Backup" wizard, accessed the "Browse" feature and directed it to the correct location G:\ OneCare backup file... at which time I received that notice indicating that OneCare wouldn't accept the "Name" and the box contained the example \\server\share suggesting that was what my file ought "to say...? or look like...?" I am not sure which... So when I tried to input it in a form like that I got the Windows warning about "symbols" in file names....

     

    The share permissions are set for a "Centeralized backup device" also... and have been right along, aside from when I was trying to configure the Optical drive, but I reconfigured them back after I got the Optical drive to function correctly... So they are again set to "Centeralized"


     

    Creating the folder is not enough. You need to make that folder a network Share per the instructions in my reply from last night. Once you have created that folder as a Share, when you configure the backup setup for Centralized backup and select a network location, you will need to enter the location in the form \\PCname\ShareName

     

    -steve

    Thursday, February 7, 2008 1:28 PM
    Moderator
  •  scoutxlt wrote:
     scoutxlt wrote:

     

    I will check into the "Ownership" situation of the backup file, but as for the "Share" aspect of the Secondary Internal HDD, it is already set to "Share the Folder" and the user limit is set to "Manimum Allowed" Although when I attempted to open the "Permissions" as you instructed, I received a "Error/Warning" stating that "This has been shared for Administrative purposes. The Permissions cannot be set." Therefore I was unable to complet your instructions, although it would appear that the drive is as "Shared" as it can be...

     

     

    I did check this earlier... and this was what I discovered... Not sure what more I can do on this situation... The Drive is "shared"  to "All on the Network & Circle" and also listed in "My Computer" as such... and the new "Folder/file" I created in G:\ is as well. I can't imagine either of them being any more wide open than they are set... OneCare just doesn't want to access the G:\ disk for some reason, my other attempts are written in the previous cell or two... Let me know what you think...

     

    Lastly, The "New" Rep. never got back to me today... also the Service Request "File Number" is for the most part the same, although it does have a few extra charactors in it now, if you would like it let me know... At least this one included an email address for his "Supervisor..." If he doesn't get back to me, I will not tolerate the lack of communication as I have been, now that I am a paying OneCare customer...

    The Sharing of the Drive is not what you need to do.

    The instructions to create a new Network Share that is the new folder on the G:\ drive, currently called OneCare Backup, are in my post from last night. Your Share will be that specific folder, not the G:\ drive.

    -steve

    Thursday, February 7, 2008 1:31 PM
    Moderator
  • I have been working on the phone and via ldirect ink to my desktop with the OneCare Customer Service Dept... We got that "Network Share" situation taken care of... but also apparently there was another "Issue..."

     

    When I formatted G:\ Drive, after installation to the tower... while I did correctly set the partition to "Basic" and configured it correctly for my "System" I apparently set the drive as "Hidden" from outside connections... Once the drive was "Un-Hidden" the Network Share connected just fine... and OneCare Reconized the Drive... I have just completed a "limited" backup... the Tech. is going to be contacting me shortly to figure out how to get a "Full" backup. Apparently since a "Full" backup has previously been run on the system, it doesn't know the difference between the various backup destinations, nor did it reconize that the "New" drive location didn't have the "previous" backup on it... I will post the final outcome here later today. It would appear the whole issue was caused by the "Hidden" aspect of the drive, when it was "originally" Formatted/Installed a setting. As we went through the list of possible issues, I don't doubt we would have gotten to it too.

     

    I did make serious mention to him about what I felt was "Extremely Poor" Customer Service, with reguards to the duration of time it took for someone to get back to me... He aggreed with my observation that had I not "Paid" for the service even with 70+ days left on my Trial Subscription, I would "Still" be waiting... He indicated that he has a "Meeting" with the "Development Team" this afternoon and that he would discuss my concerns reguarding Service Proceedures relating to "Trial Subscriptions" and agreed that I should not have had to wait nor been left hanging as I was... I hope that in the future they address this situation, and I explained that had I not received the level of Prompt and Courteous Assistance from the Forums that I did... I would not be buying this service... and that the lack of communication from Customer Service was unacceptable.

     

    Thank You Again for all your help- John

    Thursday, February 7, 2008 4:23 PM
  • I'm happy to read that the backup situation is resolved at this point, John. :-) That hidden setting would certainly be an issue!

    I'm not sure that I'd agree that you would still be waiting for responses, but unfortunately, support via email can be *very* time-consuming with the back and forth.

    I don't do "official" tech support, yet, I've got an inbox full of mail that I really need to get back to for follow-up on some issues.

     

    Note that on changing the backup location, you will need to do a new, "full" backup and proceed from that point as OneCare cannot change destinations and resume a prior backup plan.

    What I often recommend is going through the backup configuration and turning off backup - both for the PC and centralized, then saving this revised plan. Then go back to the backup settings, and select the desired options of where, what, and when, and finally saving the new plan. Perform a backup and subsequent scheduled backups will respect the new plan and only back up new and changed files.

    -steve

     

    Thursday, February 7, 2008 5:25 PM
    Moderator
  • I basicly have done what you indicated, running a "New" backup plan... and creating a new backup on the now "Network Shared Drive" it has been configured and appears to be functional... Thanks for all your help...

     

    As for the "waiting for a responce" situation... it only took about 24hrs. for them to respond to my initial service request, which I have found to be about the industry standard... but my "Disappointment" lies with the "Three Week Long" wait between communication... While I agree and completely understand the delays incountered with a large volume customer service situation, as that is my business too... The complete lack of communication, not even responding with a "form letter" indicating there has been a volume delay or other type of service related issue... was not within standards... I felt that they took my service request, and either this guy couldn't figure out how to resolve it... and burried it... or in reality what I now find to be the case, because I was not a "Paying Customer" at the time... he "would not" or "could not" respond any further... until such time as I "Paid Up..." and the Tech. all but admitted that was the case in our conversation... He also confirmed that he discussed this situation with is supervisor and will be discussing it again in the "Development Department Meeting" this afternoon... Which is about all I can ask, hopefully someone else will not have to go through what I have been these past few weeks... Trial Subscriptions should not mean... Limited Customer Service... its just not good business practice... not in the long run.

     

    Thankfully you guys in the Forums, have been well and above that type of activity... and I fully appreciate all your assistance...

    Thursday, February 7, 2008 5:56 PM
  • The scheduled OneCare Full System Backup Plan ran this past Saturday AM, as configured and was saved to the proper location in the "Secondary Internal G:\ drive" as I had wanted from the start...

     

    I knew that some how it was a settings issue, not a compatability issue... As always it often takes Many Minds working on a problem to locate the solution... My Thanks to the Steve and the tech. dept. for getting this System/Network configuration situation streightened out...

    Monday, February 11, 2008 3:55 AM
  •  

    You're most welcome.

    -steve

    Monday, February 11, 2008 1:35 PM
    Moderator