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Why must One Care Pop Up So Often??? RRS feed

  • Question

  •  

    I like One Care overall, now halfway into the 90 day trial. However it has a maddening habit of popping up and informing me it needs to connect to the Internet. I find this behavior exceedingly annoying. If I happen to be playing a game when it decides to do this, I can unexpectedly find myself out of my game and at the desktop looking at this dumb prompt to let it do something it never defines. It never says why it needs to go online, it simply needs to and all too often to suit me.

     

    Windows in general has become laden with distractions, particularly in Vista with UAC prompts galore that never learn from experience, firewall prompts, One Care prompts about nothing, etc. It's kind of like a straw breaking the camel's back here. There has to be a better way to ensure security than to drive users insane with so many interruptions they want to pull their hair out.

     

    I realize this is not a Vista forum but I mention it because it's bad enough in Vista without this too making it even worse. It's a wonder I get anything done as I am constantly needing to babysit this grossly insecure operating system and its utilities.

     

    Enough already! If One Care needs to do something on the Internet, just do it. Don't tell me about it. Just connect and check whatever you want to check and leave me the heck alone please! If some take issue with this then fine. Please offer me a checkbox allowing me to waive all rights or whatever and allow it permanently.

     

    It's funny how UAC cannot learn from experience the way firewalls can. It's funny how security software has to pester you to death. It's so funny I am about ready to pull the plug on the router and live in peaceful isolation.

     

    No wonder some people prefer Linux despite the lack of applications and entertainment titles. At least the operating system tends to itself or better still by design rarely needs to. I wish the Microsoft followed Apple's lead (again) and grafted Aero ontop of some UNIX variant so we would not need the "solutions" we endure today. Honestly.

    Monday, April 7, 2008 4:24 AM

Answers

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    http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Lyolas/msgbox.jpg

     

    There you go. My bad. It did tell me what it wanted but I know now why I had forgotten for all the times I have dismissed this annoyance... there is nothing to do.

     

    I misread the "be sure you are connected" to mean it was about to connect. It didn't register that this was about trying to get me to register 45 days early. If I clicked renew, that is exactly where it would take me. But I don't need to renew now and what is more, there is a line of text in clear view every time the program starts telling me how many days are left on the trial period. Isn't that enough? I guess not.

     

    Now I know why you two never see this. You aren't using the trial edition. You should try it sometime and see what you think of being interrupted as often as it does even before you are 2/3 done a free trial period. I am talking daily at the minimum here and I think that is per hub PC. Playing PC games is something many home users do and as far as I know, we are the target market for this product. They have a business level offering for businesses, do they not? There are few things more annoying to a gamer than being killed in a game by adware popping up. I would have expected better from Microsoft but obviously I was wrong. It's annoying no matter what one might be doing. It is still an unwarranted interruption.

     

    This annoying pop is a misguided attempt to get me to subscribe earlier I guess. What else could it be for and why do I need to be wasting my time even thinking about it? Athough I am only halfway into a 90 day trial it frequently is interrupting me to tell me to Renew or seek help for some inexplicable reason. I am not sure what I am supposed to be seeking in the help system. It doesn't say. What would you suggest? I guess lookup renewing? I don't need help with that thanks nor do I need to renew 45 days ahead of schedule. Although looking up uninstalling might be useful to some when confronted by this repeatedly.

     

    What I need is to not be constantly interrupted. Once you click OK to dismiss this adware dialog, which I mistakenly assumed was wanting to access the Internet, the full One Care window takes its sweet time coming up while I die in my game I was playing. When it does come up, all systems are good, there is nothing wrong, there is no need to get help with anything and One Care Reports all is well.

     

    If they want to spam customers to subscribe constantly, they might as well be forthright about it in the messagebox to avoid confusion with a much more direct marketing message and if they tell you to seek help, they may as well tell you what for otherwise with all indicators telling you everything is fine you are left to wonder why it asks you to do that. I realize now now what this is since I bothered to read the thing more carefully and its even more maddening as such.

     

    You may disagree with or not like my reaction to this but this is real live user feedback. This isn't about what you think. It's about what I think as a potential paying customer. Smart developers welcome negative feedback as the opportunity it is to improve their product and consumer response to it.

     

    It wants to update my service information to continue monitoring PCs in my One Care Circle? Umm, sorta. It wants me to subsribe now, right? Even though I have a month and half to go it wants the money now and does not mind frequently interrupting me to tell me so? How do they expect people to react to that exactly? Like sheep maybe?

     

    It wants to update my "service information" to continue monitoring PCs in my One Care Circle. I need to know this why? What exactly does that mean? Well I guess it means if I want to compute in peace I need to deal with this shareware pop-up approach to in your face marketing or suffer the consequences. It wants to update my credit card info is what it wants. Why not just come right out and say so? Annoying customers with intrusive advertising that is thinly veiled like this just enough to lead to confusion as in this case is not good.

     

    It wants me to click help for what exactly? It doesn't say does it? Yeah I know I am harping on this but it makes me damned mad.

     

    I hope you'll forward this feedback to them because for every one customer who will bother to provide it there are another larger group of them who will just throw it away without a word.

     

    This software is like a diamond in the rough with a lot of potential but it needs work and it needs to drop the obnoxious marketing ploys which taint an otherwise generous trial period to test it and I have tested it thoroughly. It might seem inconsequential to you but I really, really hate in your face marketing ploys like this and I am most certainly not alone in this view. They just lost me without question over it in fact. I hope they will consider toning it down and let the software speak for itself. If it is good, it will sell itself by the end of a trial this long. If it doesn't, the answer is not obnoxious marketing, it is R&D and a new release.

     

    This topic is closed, answered, etc. No need to reply but I do hope you'll pass it on if you can or if not, I hope they have the sense to read these forums for user feedback.

     

    You were right Stephen. It is broken. I didn't realize that before but now I do.

     

    Thursday, April 10, 2008 6:05 AM

All replies

  • This article may bring you some UAC relief - http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/window-on-windows/?p=635

     

    Monday, April 7, 2008 5:21 PM
    Moderator
  • I think you may have another issue. OneCare should *not* be prompting you for Internet access. If you are connected, it goes. If you are not, it doesn't prompt you - or it should not.

    Are you perhaps getting a firewall prompt from OneCare to allow another program to have access? If so, you may need to look closely at the dialog. If OneCare is prompting you to allow itself access to the Internet, there's a problem and I'd recommend reinstalling OneCare after verifying that there is no other conflicting security software installed and active.

    -steve

     

    Monday, April 7, 2008 5:36 PM
    Moderator
  •  JimR1 wrote:
    This article may bring you some UAC relief - http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/window-on-windows/?p=635

     


    Thank you very much for that link. I will read his articles and try those suggestions out to tame it here. That's great. I appreciate you pointing that out to me.

    Tuesday, April 8, 2008 2:44 AM
  •  Stephen Boots wrote:

    I think you may have another issue. OneCare should *not* be prompting you for Internet access. If you are connected, it goes. If you are not, it doesn't prompt you - or it should not.

    Are you perhaps getting a firewall prompt from OneCare to allow another program to have access? If so, you may need to look closely at the dialog. If OneCare is prompting you to allow itself access to the Internet, there's a problem and I'd recommend reinstalling OneCare after verifying that there is no other conflicting security software installed and active.

    -steve

     

     

    I agree, One Care should not be prompting me - but it is. And no, its not the firewall nor is there any other conflicting or even any other security software installed at all. My thinking in trying out this product was I want to get in, turn the key and drive. I don't want to play mechanic uninstalling and reinstalling, testing beta software, etc. It either delivers the goods or its gone. If it was a trivial task for this same kind of reasoning, I'd have removed Vista and returned to XP which was stable and worked well with far less intrusive behavior and I had no security issues. I have never had security issues and I have been using PC's since the PC-XT. I was an early adopter and I love what personal computing brings to me here at home but at this stage of the game I am done reading books like Peter Norton's Inside the IBM PC and tinkering with assembly language to understand the workings of a microprocessor, etc. It was fun. I am done.

     

    At home I just want to check my mail, read articles of interest and go online to kill monsters, people and monsters of people, etc. for the fun of it. I do not want to work for this particularly when I pay for products that by design should be working for me so I don't have to. I am willing to pay for this when someone delivers the goods.

     

    The current total security focus by Microsoft today makes me feel sort of like I need to put on my uniform, grab my rifle and take the wheel of this tank firmly in hand as I manage it's every movement because in its current form the software is too braindead to manage much on its own with my constant approval.

     

    I want excellent security that is transparent to me in everyday use, not what we have today at all. Since I am willing to pay for this, I get to demand what I want and vote with my dollars. I don't think I will be voting for One Care now guys until they fix it and I am not helping them do it until they send me a test engineering position offer. Then we can talk about how hard I will work to assist in isolating and reproducing bugs that should not have shipped as well as questionable design decisions that lead to angst, ire and  forum rants not to mention lost sales.

    Tuesday, April 8, 2008 3:28 AM
  • Let me put this more simply; There is something wrong with the software on your PC.

     

    I have had OneCare installed on both Windows XP and Vista for over two years now and other than when it's first installed it is extremely quiet, unless there is an actual malware attack of course. If you are experiencing what you indicate, then I'd be looking closely at the software installed, especially games since they're infamous for being badly designed and written.

     

    UAC is designed to pop-up a dialog only when a program requires Administrative access to perform a task, which unless it's a management application or in the process of being installed, should simply never happen. Unfortunately, there's a segment of horribly designed software out there that still requires this access and should have died out ages ago. There are a few small issues with UAC itself that have been or are about to be dealt with by Vista Service Pack 1, but these are the exception and in most cases I've never seen a UAC prompt I didn't ask for (by doing something Administrative).

     

    There's nothing wrong with wanting your security to be as silent and unobtrusive as possible, but since the Windows OS was originally designed as an open development platform, it must work its way backwards towards a more secure model. This has become quite clear in the last couple years as the attempt to close the barn door results in lots of the older software being locked out. This will continue until we've returned to something that looks much more like the closed mainframe OS than the "Personal Computer" with MS-DOS that started all of this.

     

    I think the only question is whether the PC will still have a purpose by the time this occurs, since more and more dedicated and closed devices like smart phones, game consoles and other gadgets are taking portions of its traditional market. This actually makes sense, since the general purpose computer was really designed as a plaform to define and develop exactly such dedicated purpose devices.

     

    Eventually the home computer will probably disappear into your digital home entertainment system(s) as nothing more than a dedicated browser with access to either local or remote NAS like storage and whatever remains of a much more regulated Internet. The average home user never really needed more than this, though we had to work through the half-step of using Word to write letters until everyone started to accept email as direct correspondence. Now only some business and student users really even require this application, while most could do everything they need with a simple browser.

     

    OneCareBear

     

    < EDIT > BTW, Microsoft isn't worried about loosing sales of Windows Live OneCare, they simply want you to install some form of protection. What they're really doing is trying to protect sales of the Windows OS until they've had a chance to create their own dedicated products to compete with those of others, like the XBOX, Windows Mobile (Phones) and Zune for example. They know the PC itself is evolving, but they need to protect that market until they've positioned themselves to acquire portions of those emerging markets that will replace it.

    Tuesday, April 8, 2008 5:34 AM
    Moderator
  •  DirtyHarry50 wrote:
     

    I agree, One Care should not be prompting me - but it is. And no, its not the firewall nor is there any other conflicting or even any other security software installed at all.

     

    And, as I said before, it should not be prompting you for anything other than allowing or blocking applications from reaching the network that are not recognized by OneCare. If you allow a program through the firewall, and that program changes, it will prompt you again. UAC for Vista will prompt you for actions requiring administrative access - that's not OneCare.

     

    The only other prompts you'll get from OneCare are errors or reminders to subscribe as you near the end of your trial period. And, those reminder/status message balloons will happen shortly after you start the PC. You will get a message if a tune-up or backup is about to begin, but I'd think you would want to know that if you are in the midst of a gaming session lest your performance be impacted.

     

    So, if you are getting other prompts from OneCare, please provide the specifics.

    -steve

    Tuesday, April 8, 2008 3:47 PM
    Moderator
  • Let me put this simply to you: you are in no position to judge the status of a system you cannot see.

     

    I have been using PC's since the PC XT and I do not really need a lot of philosophical views about the direction of personal computing, Microsoft's intent's which you can at best only surmise, not know, etc.

     

    I do appreciate your reply but you are not correct in assuming that if your PC's have no issues then the software is problem free as such. I have worked professionally in test engineering and trust me, we never took that sort of view because it isn't valid. Of course it works on some set of baseline computers one would hope else how could a major developer/publisher have shipped it? I give Microsoft much more credit than this. However, that does not mean that all scenarios ever were or could be tested and as such problems outside of predicted criteria can arise and are legitimate problems.

     

    The old, it works for me so your system must be broken does not apply to quality software design and testing. In that line of thinking, a developer could build something and find it runs fine on their development PC and Christen it perfect. That of course would not take into account literally millions of variables out in the so-called wild.

     

    In any case I do appreciate the efforts you guys go to on your own time to assist others and to discuss this particular product. I don't want the above to seem like a put down but I do want to remind you that your views are not all there is nor universally correct based on the limitations of your personal experience in a limited environment. As such it might be good to stop short of declaring other people's systems have something wrong with them when in reality there is no way for you to begin to know that is true or not. Surely you would not suggest any shipping software under the sun is bug-free? There is not one and therefore One Care does have bugs as well. They all do. The science of this points out that the odds to find everything in any test cycle are astronomical beyond belief. The complexity of modern code is such that today it is not humanly possible to ship anything without bugs. It's a miracle really that developers do as well as they do in working with what they have to work with.

     

    As such I am not saying One Care is a terrible or even bad product. I am saying it can be better and when it is, I might be willing to pay for it. At the end of the day, I do not care how it works for anyone else. I only care that it installs and works for me.

     

    What I have described is not an error condition. It is a design flaw. One Care is not in an error state nor in conflict with anything. It is not crashing nor is it informing me it has any problem whatsoever. It simply wants to check the internet for some purpose and bothers me each time to advise me of this. It has nothing to do with the system here. One Care was coded to do this operation and it does it. It is working as designed here and my issue is not with an error but with what I regard as an error in design.

     

    I just posted this as feedback for the developers who I hope look here for it. I wasn't seeking a solution to a "problem" you guys cannot fix unless you have the sources, the skill to edit and rebuild them and the time to do so and email me the improved version. ;-)

     

    Tuesday, April 8, 2008 3:55 PM
  •  DirtyHarry50 wrote:

     

    As such I am not saying One Care is a terrible or even bad product. I am saying it can be better and when it is, I might be willing to pay for it. At the end of the day, I do not care how it works for anyone else. I only care that it installs and works for me.

     

    On this point we most certainly agree.  OneCare is far from perfect and has its share of flaws - both design issues and defects.

     

     DirtyHarry50 wrote:

    What I have described is not an error condition. It is a design flaw. One Care is not in an error state nor in conflict with anything. It is not crashing nor is it informing me it has any problem whatsoever. It simply wants to check the internet for some purpose and bothers me each time to advise me of this. It has nothing to do with the system here. One Care was coded to do this operation and it does it. It is working as designed here and my issue is not with an error but with what I regard as an error in design.

     

    On this point we disagree. OneCare should *never* ask for access to the Internet for itself. If it is doing so, it is broken. Why, I can't tell you. It could be something wrong in OneCare or something specific to your system, settings, environment, or installed software. I can tell you that something is not right if it pops up a prompt to get access to the Internet.

     

    I'll trump you and tell you I've been using PCs since before the PC/XT. I started on CPM.  That's not important, though. What is important is that there have been a few reports of OneCare's firewall asking to allow itself access through the firewall. That shouldn't happen. It isn't asking for Internet access, it's asking for a firewall rule review by you for an unrecognized program, and that is clearly a broken OneCare. I'm not saying that's what you're seeing. I have been running OneCare on multiple PCs for a few years now and have been reading the forums and replying to posts daily and have never seen or read of a situation where OneCare is asking for Internet access except in the cases I noted above - which appears to be a problem only in 2.0 in some unexplained scenarios.

     

    -steve

    Tuesday, April 8, 2008 4:10 PM
    Moderator
  • Following what Steve has already mentioned, I realize that I was making blatant statements about your PC, but thay were based on the same knowledge that Steve has more clearly stated. I don't know what's wrong on your PC, but as Steve stated this is by no means normal or even somewhat common behaviour for OneCare, which is why I made such a blatant statement in the first place.

     

    The fallacy here is that all possible issues with OneCare operation will be fixed in the code itself. This is never going to happen as many cases are transient issues that are instead fixed using special utilities that modify or patch the existing system in some way. Including all of these directly in the code would simply bloat the product for everyone when only a small percentage may ever need a specific fix which only needs to be run once.

     

    In any case, the only way that such an issue can be resolved is if someone with the very knowledge you mentioned is allowed to investigate the situation on your PC. Without that happening, it's quite simply impossible to create or apply a software fix, since there's no information available that it even needs to occur.

     

    In my earlier post I was reacting more to your statement that you wouldn't attempt to aid in the resolution of this problem, since as you can now see, that's the only way it will ever be resolved. I don't need to know the specifics of your particular system to know this basic fact.

     

    OneCareBear

    Wednesday, April 9, 2008 5:12 AM
    Moderator
  •  

    http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Lyolas/msgbox.jpg

     

    There you go. My bad. It did tell me what it wanted but I know now why I had forgotten for all the times I have dismissed this annoyance... there is nothing to do.

     

    I misread the "be sure you are connected" to mean it was about to connect. It didn't register that this was about trying to get me to register 45 days early. If I clicked renew, that is exactly where it would take me. But I don't need to renew now and what is more, there is a line of text in clear view every time the program starts telling me how many days are left on the trial period. Isn't that enough? I guess not.

     

    Now I know why you two never see this. You aren't using the trial edition. You should try it sometime and see what you think of being interrupted as often as it does even before you are 2/3 done a free trial period. I am talking daily at the minimum here and I think that is per hub PC. Playing PC games is something many home users do and as far as I know, we are the target market for this product. They have a business level offering for businesses, do they not? There are few things more annoying to a gamer than being killed in a game by adware popping up. I would have expected better from Microsoft but obviously I was wrong. It's annoying no matter what one might be doing. It is still an unwarranted interruption.

     

    This annoying pop is a misguided attempt to get me to subscribe earlier I guess. What else could it be for and why do I need to be wasting my time even thinking about it? Athough I am only halfway into a 90 day trial it frequently is interrupting me to tell me to Renew or seek help for some inexplicable reason. I am not sure what I am supposed to be seeking in the help system. It doesn't say. What would you suggest? I guess lookup renewing? I don't need help with that thanks nor do I need to renew 45 days ahead of schedule. Although looking up uninstalling might be useful to some when confronted by this repeatedly.

     

    What I need is to not be constantly interrupted. Once you click OK to dismiss this adware dialog, which I mistakenly assumed was wanting to access the Internet, the full One Care window takes its sweet time coming up while I die in my game I was playing. When it does come up, all systems are good, there is nothing wrong, there is no need to get help with anything and One Care Reports all is well.

     

    If they want to spam customers to subscribe constantly, they might as well be forthright about it in the messagebox to avoid confusion with a much more direct marketing message and if they tell you to seek help, they may as well tell you what for otherwise with all indicators telling you everything is fine you are left to wonder why it asks you to do that. I realize now now what this is since I bothered to read the thing more carefully and its even more maddening as such.

     

    You may disagree with or not like my reaction to this but this is real live user feedback. This isn't about what you think. It's about what I think as a potential paying customer. Smart developers welcome negative feedback as the opportunity it is to improve their product and consumer response to it.

     

    It wants to update my service information to continue monitoring PCs in my One Care Circle? Umm, sorta. It wants me to subsribe now, right? Even though I have a month and half to go it wants the money now and does not mind frequently interrupting me to tell me so? How do they expect people to react to that exactly? Like sheep maybe?

     

    It wants to update my "service information" to continue monitoring PCs in my One Care Circle. I need to know this why? What exactly does that mean? Well I guess it means if I want to compute in peace I need to deal with this shareware pop-up approach to in your face marketing or suffer the consequences. It wants to update my credit card info is what it wants. Why not just come right out and say so? Annoying customers with intrusive advertising that is thinly veiled like this just enough to lead to confusion as in this case is not good.

     

    It wants me to click help for what exactly? It doesn't say does it? Yeah I know I am harping on this but it makes me damned mad.

     

    I hope you'll forward this feedback to them because for every one customer who will bother to provide it there are another larger group of them who will just throw it away without a word.

     

    This software is like a diamond in the rough with a lot of potential but it needs work and it needs to drop the obnoxious marketing ploys which taint an otherwise generous trial period to test it and I have tested it thoroughly. It might seem inconsequential to you but I really, really hate in your face marketing ploys like this and I am most certainly not alone in this view. They just lost me without question over it in fact. I hope they will consider toning it down and let the software speak for itself. If it is good, it will sell itself by the end of a trial this long. If it doesn't, the answer is not obnoxious marketing, it is R&D and a new release.

     

    This topic is closed, answered, etc. No need to reply but I do hope you'll pass it on if you can or if not, I hope they have the sense to read these forums for user feedback.

     

    You were right Stephen. It is broken. I didn't realize that before but now I do.

     

    Thursday, April 10, 2008 6:05 AM
  • Thanks for the screen shot! Yes, I know OneCare nags about subscribing, but I didn't know when it starts. I am running a trial mode on my newest PC before activating it just so I can see what happens. :-) I think I've been running it for less than 30 days if my memory isn't failing me too badly.

    I hear you on the Marketing, but that's probably pretty normal for any trialware. I guess the most annoying part is the randomness of the prompt. I would expect to see that pop at login and startup, but then not again until the next startup.

    And I do appreciate the feedback and will make sure to pass it on.

    Take care,

    -steve

     

    Thursday, April 10, 2008 12:49 PM
    Moderator
  • Steve,

     

    That screen shot has nothing to do with advertising, the Circle monitoring is having a problem connecting to the back-end servers to update system state information. It's clearly stating to check system time or the connection to the Internet. I don't know if there's a known reason for this to occur, but maybe there's some interference with the .NET 2.0 connection by something operating on the PC?

     

    Regardless, it's reporting a real problem, not advertising.

     

    DirtyHarry50: Regarding messages in general, that's an interesting subject all by itself. During the early beta I noticed a wide range of tolerance for pop-ups, no matter what the source. Some thought OneCare was too noisy and wanted the ability to turn off all but the most urgent direct prompts. Others wanted even more notification of things like when an update was occuring or some other background action was taking place.

     

    What the OneCare developers actually did was to drastically reduce the number and type of prompts overall. They then apparently worked to reduce the effect of things like updates on the PC so they were less noticeable, because we've had much less posting about this since, if any at all. The move has been to make OneCare's operation as unobtrusive as possible, with the only prompting being something the user needs to be aware of.

     

    However, there will obviously be some nagging when OneCare approaches time for renewal, since this is one of the most common reasons for PC infection, out of date protection. In this area OneCare errs on the side of "get them protected". It may be annoying, but of course it's actually intended to be, since it's always easier not to do something than get it done. OneCare must be as much a mentor to some sub-set of users as good protection, since this is the group of users at the most risk.

     

    Unfortunately, as you know, the state of the art in programming currently isn't able to differentiate between a highly technically knowledgeable user and one who needs this mentoring. So since it's initial design criteria was "fool-proof protection", it must err on the side of nagging to protect the user. The fact that we see few complaints in this area, though they do occur, seems to bear out that this is the correct decision.

     

    One of the things that's most confusing to technical users, especially those with a programming background, is that OneCare isn't being modified for them. This has usually been the case with software in the past, but has also lead to many of the issues for the non-technical user population. It's interesting how confusing this is to the "techies" since they're so used to getting everything they want, leading to much of the bloat and confusing configuration that up until recently was the norm for most security software.

     

    The most confusing thing for most technical users is that Microsoft as a whole really aren't concerned if you choose to go buy another product. The most important concern is that you have protection, but it isn't technical users with knowledge of how to protect their PC from malware who are the problem in this case. Sure, the OneCare Team still needs to meet some level of marketing, but the primary focus for the full range of MS Anti-Malware products is different, since their goal is protection of their OS product customers, not sales numbers for the Anti-Malware products themselves.

     

    OneCareBear

    Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:40 PM
    Moderator
  • Oh my God Carebear please! Read the message again? It is telling the user to go click the button to subscribe or to read the help but not saying what for or what about! That's it. There is no connectivity issue, no .NET issue, etc. Don't you think One Care would provide an error message telling you it can't connect if it can't connect? You really don't think that case would be coded in? That's a pretty fundamental error condition the handling for which would have been in version one I am sure. Read it again. It is not saying it is NOT connected. It is asking me to make sure it is connected and I have a correct system time before I go and click the Renew button. Why? Because these things need to be true for that to work such that I could fork over the 50 bucks and buy it right now.

     

    In fairness, I can relate personally to misreading that confusing dialog text. What angers me is that I get the impression it is vague on purpose whilst trying lead me to the buy me now page.

     

    Could you please cite some credible references for your statements like: Microsoft doesn't care about selling One Care they only care I have some form of protection? Are you making this up or can you provide me a link where someone at Microsoft actually comes out and says this? I'm sure shareholders would find such a link interesting as well.

     

    You also conveniently do not address my issue with being pestered 45 days into a 90 day trial on a daily basis minimally in a way that interrupts my computing experience. There is no pressing need for daily intervention with over a month of subscription to go. If it were the final week you might have a valid point there but it isn't. For example, a much more reasonable approach might be, warn the user explicitly when there is 4 weeks left and perhaps do this weekly until there is two weeks left then perhaps do it ever few days until the user has 1 week left then MAYBE once a day for the final week might be considered reasonable as at this point the issue of no updates or a disabled trial has finally become somewhat urgent. There is no way you can tell me that his is an urgent issue requiring my immediate attention over a month ahead of time and justifying daily pestering to do it.

     

    You can tell me you would like being pestered like that and I would not argue with you because you get to like whatever you want to. My point is, so do I so please stop trying to foist your view of what is OK and what is not on me. This is a matter of individual choice. You get yours. I get mine. Both are valid for each of us. End of story.,

     

    Arguing with a user about the validity of thier response to a design isn't helpful. Passing it on to the team to consider is though.

     

    What I am trying to tell you is that while your own take on One Care is completely valid as a user, so is mine and so is every other single individual using it. Think about the process of brainstorming for example: no idea is too far out, all are good in the process of coming to the best possible outcome. Well, user perceptions and feedback are exactly like this. It's not about my view is stupid and you need to enlighten and educate me. It's about this user doesn't like the product because of certain behaviors and that they bother to provide this feedback should be appreciated, not argued with.

    Thursday, April 10, 2008 5:19 PM
  • No, the OneCare Circle was only added in 2.0, so this message only came into existence at that time.

     

    Going back through your earlier posts I finally see where you mention the message directly, so now I understand the problem. It's really not intended as direct advertising, it's simply an anomaly created by the OneCare "Circle" feature, which I've never seen because I don't use it. What I don't understand is why you're seeing it if you don't have it enabled?

     

    If you enabled your PC as the "Hub" of the Circle at some point, the only way to disable it is to uninstall/reinstall I believe. Otherwise, there shouldn't be an attempt to gather the "service information" causing the message in the first place.

     

    In either case, it looks like this is actually some sort of bug or maybe a leftover from your testing. It would probably normally occur in the case of a subscription having run out, which is why the reference to 'Renew' and obviously a connection or date/time issue could cause it too. The timing of the messages would be based on how often the PC performs its server checks, which for updates are normally one hour, but may be something different for the Circle.

     

    The fact that we haven't heard other complaints is probably due to your gaming, since that sounds like the real conflict here. In most cases a user could just close the message, but in your case it sounds like it badly disrupts game operation.

     

    OneCareBear

    Thursday, April 10, 2008 6:40 PM
    Moderator
  • I imagine it continues because the machine was configured as a hub and I have not attempted to change that which is just as well given your telling me you have to uninstall to get rid of choosing to be a hub. That's pretty bad also. It should be possible to turn off hub or not on demand without having to remove reinstall.

     

    It is bad when gaming but frankly, I'd find it almost as annoying if I was working in Excel or whatnot as it not only displays the messagebox but then loads up the full One Care UI whether you want it or not anyway.

     

    I believe you about the messagebox corresponding to the circle feature introduction in 2.0 but what I meant earlier was that in any event that One Care needed to go online for anything, such as say self updates or newest anti-virus data, etc. there surely has to be error handling code for the event that it cannot go online with some sort of user notification of the problem. Then again, I'd accept the response that by design One Care simply will do nothing if it cannot get a connect, including not inform the user. I'd hope not though since this could mean it missed an important update and the user would remain blissfully unaware unless the software tells them so.

    Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:16 PM
  • Yes, that's one reason I haven't used the Circle myself, though you can remove all other members as I recall. That's why I don't understand you still seeing the message, since it should only need to see its own status and even then that should still be working. It sounded as if there were major plans for improvement in future versions, but I don't know how quickly they'll happen.

     

    Now I understand why you were confused, since the full GUI pop-up in combination with a rather cryptic error message and a renewal notice prominently displayed in both would make it look that way. Now I think you can see this was all just an unforseen side effect, though obviously annoying.

     

    There are separate messages for both network connectivity and eventually missed updates too. Over time these have been toned down since like the one you're getting they could be set off spuriously in some cases. The Red Icon for update issues now waits for certain triggers and timeouts before displaying which has reduced the complaints here to a minimal number.

     

    All of these situations can have transient communication failures and how quickly and loud to alert when they happen is difficult to judge. In some cases the issue is just a temporary hiccup on the wire, while in others it might actually be damage to either the networking or part of the Windows updating system that's used for transport. Telling the user too quickly begins to seem like crying wolf, even if it is actually correct, while waiting too long could place a user in danger as you mentioned.

     

    Glad I don't have to tune this.

     

    OneCareBear

    Thursday, April 10, 2008 9:46 PM
    Moderator