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Windows Home Server 2011 Release Candidate now available RRS feed

  • General discussion

  • Today we are pleased to announce the availability of the Release Candidate for Microsoft Windows Home Server 2011 (formerly Windows Home Server Code Name “Vail”). Affordable and easy-to-use, Microsoft Windows Home Server 2011 (WHS) is the ideal solution to help families keep their important digital files and PC’s automatically backed up, organized, and accessible.

    The Release Candidate (RC) signifies our last mile efforts for releasing this product to our customers, and prepares our network of software and hardware partners for its release.

    This WHS RC is the first public release to include changes in the storage features, so let’s look at some of the changes you can expect. All existing technologies such as server and client backup, health monitoring, remote web access, streaming media, and simplified dashboard management are still included.

    More details on our team blog...

    http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/windowshomeserver/


    This post is "AS IS" and confers no rights. Jonas Svensson [MSFT] Windows Home Server Community Program Manager
    Windows Home Server Team Blog
    Connect Windows Home Server
    Windows Home Server
    Thursday, February 3, 2011 7:00 PM

All replies

  • Thats great news.  I have a new RAID5 system all ready to go.  Now if I could just get it to download.  The servers sure are buys.  I thought no one was going to use vail because drive extender is gone? 
    D.W.
    Thursday, February 3, 2011 9:37 PM
  • I thought no one was going to use vail because drive extender is gone?
    ======
    Heh Heh . . . weren't moi said it. I've always said I'd give it a go to see if it's any better than the refresh. Even without DE.

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward
    Thursday, February 3, 2011 10:42 PM
  • If windows server 2008 r2 had a client backup service, i'd just use that.  But I like the look and feel of vail.  Much improved over WHS1.  I could care less about drive extender.
    D.W.
    Friday, February 4, 2011 12:03 AM
  • I wish you'd told us we need double sided DVDs before it got too late to go out and get them. And I probably won't be able to get them tomorrow because of the white stuff that's supposed to drop out of the sky tonight. Sigh . . .

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward
    Friday, February 4, 2011 5:42 AM
  • Hi Nancy

    How about a big enough memory stick? I suppose the same install way which works for win7 could also work for vail :)

    I haven't it tested though.

    pato

    Friday, February 4, 2011 9:11 AM
  • Well done MSFT another disaster in my opinion and in the views of others it seems disaster on the WHS roadmap of disasters.

    Not listening to what your customers wanted - Drive Extender/Media Center capabilities amongst others!

    I've stuck around during the file loss issues in WHS from the very start but you no longer have my support. I'd love to see what percentage of current WHS users you expect to upgrade to WHS 2011 as it really can't be many unless you're all delusional and then see how successful or more likely un-successful you are with WHS 2011 overall in the future! You only have yourselves to blame!
    Friday, February 4, 2011 1:00 PM
  • How about a big enough memory stick? I suppose the same install way which works for win7 could also work for vail :)
    ======
    I was going to try a a flash drive, but since I got the OEM version (that was taken down and replaced), it fit on a single sided DVD. I haven't tried to install it yet.

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward
    Friday, February 4, 2011 2:08 PM
  • I installed the OEM version, i have no idea what the difference is but its working ok here.

    I installed in HyperV though so didnt use any disks.

    Friday, February 4, 2011 2:34 PM
  • WHS2011 is a JOKE.   Shame on Microsoft for RUINING a great OS.
    Friday, February 4, 2011 3:17 PM
  • I installed the OEM version, i have no idea what the difference is but its working ok here.

    I installed in HyperV though so didnt use any disks.
    ======
    Very good! I'm sure that if you got it installed withHyperV, I can install it with the DVD. :)

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward
    Friday, February 4, 2011 3:31 PM
  • That will work just fine.  Thats how I just did it.  If you use the microsoft tool from the store, it works flawlessly.
    D.W.
    Friday, February 4, 2011 3:36 PM
  • Whats this OEM version people are talking about?

    What is the name of the file of the OEM verison and the CRC / SHA1 of it ?

    I downloaded this file : EN-US_WHS_PREM_InstallDVD.iso

    CRC             : 0xC191510A
    SHA1            : 0x65AB44627F12E6FC5268BE2ED9F5489CB98021DF


    Is this the OEM version or not ?

    Also the file above is 3,998.12 MB . So why would we need a DVD9 disk to record to ?

    DVD5 holds 4.37GB DATA so someone please explain why 3,998.12 MB can't fit into 4.37GB of space ??

    Friday, February 4, 2011 4:18 PM
  • WE, your customers, have spoken.  On Microsoft Connect, mediasmartserver.net, homeserverland.com, wegotserved.com, on Facebook (page WHS Users in Support of Drive Extender).

    It's clear Microsoft is not listening.  The Microsoft Connect vote, for instance, stands at 5690 in favor, 69 opposed to putting Drive Extender back into WHS Vail (2011).  That's 98.8% of a very large user sampling that wants this feature put back.

    Instead we've been given the "Move Folder Wizard" and partition limits of 2 TB, and to add insult to injury, drive letters!  With Drive Extender, we didn't need to worry about any of these.  WHS v1 with DE made drive management 100% automatic.  Duplication?  Automatic!  Parition limits?  No!  Storage limits?  None!

    WHS 2011, on the other hand, introduces a bunch of manual processes.  Move Folder Wizard is manual.  With 2TB limits, I have to manually break up larger shares and segragate data.  In other words, WHS 2011 has taken what used to be a hands-off process and turned it into a second job.  What home user is going to want to spend a bunch of time maintaining their home server, moving data around, haggling with 2TB partition caps, etc?  The whole point of WHS was to be a hands-off appliance, not a job for a server administrator.

    What this clearly says is that Microsoft does not care about the consumer market.  They wanted to make sure the business users didn't get alienated--businesses that likely have a server administrator on the staff to tend to the server.

    Needless to say, I have no intentions of upgrading to WHS 2011.  I like my server working quietly, faithfully, automatically.  I don't want to turn it into another job.

    EPIC FAIL.

    Friday, February 4, 2011 4:35 PM
  • On Fri, 4 Feb 2011 16:35:24 +0000, Matthew H. Sawyer wrote:

    businesses that likely have a server administrator on the staff to tend to the server.

    Actually this is totally incorrect. The versions of SBS that share features
    with WHS 2011 are aimed specifically and squarely at businesses the do
    not
    have a knowledgeable server admin on site. That's kind of the whole
    point.


    Paul Adare
    MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager
    http://www.identit.ca
    All computers run at the same speed...  with the power off.

    Friday, February 4, 2011 4:40 PM
  • Agree 100%.   The only pain point I can see down the line with my WHSv1 install is the 2TB Drive Limit.  

    I guess I will just make my next hardware build able to handle more drives cause I will not be moving off of WHS V1.

    WHS2011 - ROFL!

     

    Friday, February 4, 2011 5:31 PM
  • "Greg887" wrote in message news:5801686f-2b57-4dcc-9559-0b804b2fd9a8@communitybridge.codeplex.com...

    <Whats this OEM version people are talking about? What is the name of the file of the OEM verison and the CRC / SHA1 of it ?>

    If I remember the time correctly, I downloaded  at approximately 5:00 PM Central Time. At that time,
    EN-US_WHS_PREM_OEM_InstallDVD (note the OEM in the description) was available for download. I don't normally check the CRC /SHA1 of downloads, since I've never gotten it to work. :(

    <I downloaded this file : EN-US_WHS_PREM_InstallDVD.iso>

    <CRC             : 0xC191510A>
    <SHA1            : 0x65AB44627F12E6FC5268BE2ED9F5489CB98021DF>

    <Is this the OEM version or not ?>

    I don't think this is what I downloaded as shown above. The size of the file I downloaded is just under 4.1 GB.

    <Also the file above is 3,998.12 MB . So why would we need a DVD9 disk to record to ? DVD5 holds 4.37GB DATA so someone please explain why 3,998.12 MB can't fit into 4.37GB of space ??>

    I was prepared to redownload until I saw that a double sided DVD is required for that ISO. I kept the OEM ISO I had and burned it to a Memorex 4.7 GB DVD+R. I haven't installed yet, but will in awhile.

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward
    Friday, February 4, 2011 5:46 PM
  • The OEM one was removed from Connect site last night.  I downloaded the
    other one, which matches the one you have.
    So you don't have the OEM one, AFAIK.
    I burned it to a regular DVD, no need for a DL DVD.
     
    --
    Dave N.
    MS-MVP (Mail)
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64
    "Greg887" wrote in message
    news:5801686f-2b57-4dcc-9559-0b804b2fd9a8@communitybridge.codeplex.com...
     
    Whats this OEM version people are talking about?
     
    What is the name of the file of the OEM verison and the CRC / SHA1 of it ?
     
    I downloaded this file : EN-US_WHS_PREM_InstallDVD.iso
     
    CRC             : 0xC191510A
    SHA1            : 0x65AB44627F12E6FC5268BE2ED9F5489CB98021DF
     Is this the OEM version or not ?
     
    Also the file above is 3,998.12 MB . So why would we need a DVD9 disk to
    record to ?
     
    DVD5 holds 4.37GB DATA so someone please explain why 3,998.12 MB can't fit
    into 4.37GB of space ??
     
     

    Windows 7 32bit beta
    Friday, February 4, 2011 5:48 PM
  • Hey Nancy!

    You can install a HP-V box right from the .iso file.

    Gary

    "Nancy Ward" wrote in message news:73e7ed36-a5ae-45d3-b8c1-1fee0284e1c0@communitybridge.codeplex.com...

    I installed the OEM version, i have no idea what the difference is but its working ok here.

    I installed in HyperV though so didnt use any disks.
    ======
    Very good! I'm sure that if you got it installed withHyperV, I can install it with the DVD. :)

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward

    Friday, February 4, 2011 5:48 PM
  • I'm just stunned at the arrogance and stupidity of the Home Server leadership.  The one feature everyone bragged about they pulled.  I've been a Microsoft geek for decades, but I just can't stomache it much longer.  

    Jonas - I don't understand why you're "pleased to announce" something that just pisses off your most loyal customers. 

    Friday, February 4, 2011 6:26 PM
  • WE, your customers, have spoken.  On Microsoft Connect, mediasmartserver.net, homeserverland.com, wegotserved.com, on Facebook (page WHS Users in Support of Drive Extender).

    It's clear Microsoft is not listening.  The Microsoft Connect vote, for instance, stands at 5690 in favor, 69 opposed to putting Drive Extender back into WHS Vail (2011).  That's 98.8% of a very large user sampling that wants this feature put back.

    Instead we've been given the "Move Folder Wizard" and partition limits of 2 TB, and to add insult to injury, drive letters!  With Drive Extender, we didn't need to worry about any of these.  WHS v1 with DE made drive management 100% automatic.  Duplication?  Automatic!  Parition limits?  No!  Storage limits?  None!

    WHS 2011, on the other hand, introduces a bunch of manual processes.  Move Folder Wizard is manual.  With 2TB limits, I have to manually break up larger shares and segragate data.  In other words, WHS 2011 has taken what used to be a hands-off process and turned it into a second job.  What home user is going to want to spend a bunch of time maintaining their home server, moving data around, haggling with 2TB partition caps, etc?  The whole point of WHS was to be a hands-off appliance, not a job for a server administrator.

    What this clearly says is that Microsoft does not care about the consumer market.  They wanted to make sure the business users didn't get alienated--businesses that likely have a server administrator on the staff to tend to the server.

    Needless to say, I have no intentions of upgrading to WHS 2011.  I like my server working quietly, faithfully, automatically.  I don't want to turn it into another job.

    EPIC FAIL.


    I agree, and in reply to Paul Adare comments, how long will it be before any of those small businesses that don't have a server admin on site, will realise too late how much more work is involved. I for one carn't afford both in expence of buying new drives to make this storage system work at home or the extra time involved.

    Was trying to work out a fool proof (storage plan) today, what size drives to use and how many, to make sure if any drives failed in home server 2011. And it's just not worth it, i realise now how much i took the older versions of DE for granted, back to drab old WHSv1 all is forgiven.

    Home Server 2011 good to look at, but lacks the inner beauty of the true Home Server V1. 

    Friday, February 4, 2011 6:30 PM
  • Seriously all the people still here complaining about drive extender being gone, start your own thread.  Or how about this.  Just get over it.  It's done, it's over, and it's not going to change.  Do any of you think that your bickering and whining on a forum is really going to change the mind of a corporation like Microsoft?  It's over.  Move on.  Let these forums be for what they are supposed to be.  No matter what anyone says, it's not going to change anything.  I'm also pretty sure that windows home server 2011 is going to have plenty of support from consumers.  The fact that the download servers are so busy that it's hard to even get the ISO proves that. 
    D.W.
    Friday, February 4, 2011 6:42 PM
  • WE, your customers, have spoken.  On Microsoft Connect, mediasmartserver.net, homeserverland.com, wegotserved.com, on Facebook (page WHS Users in Support of Drive Extender).

    It's clear Microsoft is not listening.  The Microsoft Connect vote, for instance, stands at 5690 in favor, 69 opposed to putting Drive Extender back into WHS Vail (2011).  That's 98.8% of a very large user sampling that wants this feature put back.

    Instead we've been given the "Move Folder Wizard" and partition limits of 2 TB, and to add insult to injury, drive letters!  With Drive Extender, we didn't need to worry about any of these.  WHS v1 with DE made drive management 100% automatic.  Duplication?  Automatic!  Parition limits?  No!  Storage limits?  None!

    WHS 2011, on the other hand, introduces a bunch of manual processes.  Move Folder Wizard is manual.  With 2TB limits, I have to manually break up larger shares and segragate data.  In other words, WHS 2011 has taken what used to be a hands-off process and turned it into a second job.  What home user is going to want to spend a bunch of time maintaining their home server, moving data around, haggling with 2TB partition caps, etc?  The whole point of WHS was to be a hands-off appliance, not a job for a server administrator.

    What this clearly says is that Microsoft does not care about the consumer market.  They wanted to make sure the business users didn't get alienated--businesses that likely have a server administrator on the staff to tend to the server.

    Needless to say, I have no intentions of upgrading to WHS 2011.  I like my server working quietly, faithfully, automatically.  I don't want to turn it into another job.

    EPIC FAIL.

    Your forgetting about all the people who just don't care to do the little vote.  The ones who it isn't a "job" for to set up a RAID array, or move a few things around.  The ones who know, and prefer a superior kernel.

    D.W.
    Friday, February 4, 2011 6:48 PM
  • You just sound as ingorent as Microsoft is threating it's current WHS V1 customers. Please have customers have their own opinion here and please don't tell anyone what to do and not to do/write here. If you're as stupid to agree with the MS changes, good for you. WHS users just don;t agree with you and see this all as step(s) back while an upgrade should be step(s) forward. And this cannot be discussed enough and this is just another place to keep this giving vocal.
     
    Btw, the complaints will be in advance of dropped sales. Sounds reasonable, doesn't it.. and after that.. no one can say "wow... we didn't see that coming".
     
    Have a nice day/weekend!
     
    Seriously all the people still here complaining about drive extender being gone, start your own thread.  Or how about this.  Just get over it.  It's done, it's over, and it's not going to change.  Do any of you think that your bickering and whining on a forum is really going to change the mind of a corporation like Microsoft?  It's over.  Move on.  Let these forums be for what they are supposed to be.  No matter what anyone says, it's not going to change anything.  I'm also pretty sure that windows home server 2011 is going to have plenty of support from consumers.  The fact that the download servers are so busy that it's hard to even get the ISO proves that. 
    D.W.

    Have a nice day!
    Friday, February 4, 2011 7:24 PM
  • About DL. I guess someone unfamiliair with what the requirements are thought you need a DL-DVD. Ít probabaly is someone not to smart, since it just fits on a normal DVD.

    I wish you'd told us we need double sided DVDs before it got too late to go out and get them. And I probably won't be able to get them tomorrow because of the white stuff that's supposed to drop out of the sky tonight. Sigh . . .

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward

    Have a nice day!
    Friday, February 4, 2011 7:28 PM
  • > Your forgetting about all the people who just don't care to do the little vote. 
     
    Pssttt... not everyone disliking the changes has access to Connect...ever considered that....?
     
    Btw, are you even aware of who the WHS users are?  I guess it's about time you release yourself .. since you stayed to long under some rock or so since it looks you never met a general-whs-user before, let apart you seriously asked what the like(d) about the current WHS and what convinced them to buy one.
     
    For you, just go out to buy a SBS and stay away for the "WHS V 2011-discussion" since you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
     
    Have a nice day/weekend!
     
    Your forgetting about all the people who just don't care to do the little vote.  The ones who it isn't a "job" for to set up a RAID array, or move a few things around.  The ones who know, and prefer a superior kernel.

    D.W.
     
     

    Have a nice day!
    Friday, February 4, 2011 7:33 PM
  • Pssttt... not everyone disliking the changes has access to Connect...ever considered that....?

     

    Then who are all these people who are downloading the ISO?  There is sure a lot more than 69, I can tell you that much.  What part do they play in this?  I will give them this.  They are a little smarter than me, because they just keep there mouths shut and leave the bickering to the children. 

     

    It was also nice of you to assume that I wasn't a WHS V1 user, but you are wrong.  I used it for a long time.  The simple truth is this.  WHS 2011 is a more powerful server solution with a simple interface.  If you don't like a more modern OS, stick with version 1 and shut up about it.


    D.W.
    Friday, February 4, 2011 7:58 PM
  • Sorry to break this to you man, but with much of the market share that Microsoft owns, they can afford to do a little experimenting.  It doesn't matter if they can't make everyone happy.  They can afford that.  They are much bigger than you or me, and probably sitting around reading these posts right now laughing.  I know I would be if I was them.

    D.W.
    Friday, February 4, 2011 8:03 PM
  • That's exactly what happens with companies that are that big that they think no one can hurt them (anymore). It's often not to far from going downhill.
    It's exactly what Bill Gates wrote many years ago in one of it's books many years ago. Any idea whay their stocks don't rise now for many years?
    If would have like they had the guts to say it's over for Windows Home Server since they don;'t believe in it anymore. Same result, but it would have showed they had the balls to tell it straight forward. Now they don;t look any better than a shy sissy.
     
    > I know I would be if I was them.
    This does tell a lot about you.
     
     
    Have a nice day/weekend!
     
    Sorry to break this to you man, but with much of the market share that Microsoft owns, they can afford to do a little experimenting.  It doesn't matter if they can't make everyone happy.  They can afford that.  They are much bigger than you or me, and probably sitting around reading these posts right now laughing.  I know I would be if I was them.

    D.W.

    Have a nice day!
    Friday, February 4, 2011 8:28 PM
  • If you don't like a more modern OS, stick with version 1 and shut up about it.
     
    What exactly is better in Windows Home Server 2011 than in V1? And I don't mean UI changes, but functionality-wise.
     
     
    If you don't like a more modern OS,
    What's so enourmous modern about this version? 64-bit instead of 32 bit.. it's ok, but I cannot find a "wow-part" in this.
     
    All by all, it feels like MS is paying you for your biased opnion. Don;t you have a non biased one?
     
    Have a nice day/weekend!
     
     

    Pssttt... not everyone disliking the changes has access to Connect...ever considered that....?

     

    Then who are all these people who are downloading the ISO?  There is sure a lot more than 69, I can tell you that much.  What part do they play in this?  I will give them this.  They are a little smarter than me, because they just keep there mouths shut and leave the bickering to the children. 

     

    It was also nice of you to assume that I wasn't a WHS V1 user, but you are wrong.  I used it for a long time.  The simple truth is this.  WHS 2011 is a more powerful server solution with a simple interface.  If you don't like a more modern OS, stick with version 1 and shut up about it.


    D.W.

    Have a nice day!
    Friday, February 4, 2011 8:32 PM
  • Seriously all the people still here complaining about drive extender being gone, start your own thread.  Or how about this.  Just get over it.  It's done, it's over, and it's not going to change.  Do any of you think that your bickering and whining on a forum is really going to change the mind of a corporation like Microsoft?  It's over.  Move on.  Let these forums be for what they are supposed to be.  No matter what anyone says, it's not going to change anything.  I'm also pretty sure that windows home server 2011 is going to have plenty of support from consumers.  The fact that the download servers are so busy that it's hard to even get the ISO proves that. 
    D.W.

    I agree with you.  I’m trying to find issues in this forum with the RC version. I don’t want to hear bitching about DE missing.  I had problems with DE corruption with the Beta version. I’m using RAID 1 now and have had no problems so far with the WHS 2011 RC.

    Friday, February 4, 2011 8:37 PM
  • That's exactly what happens with companies that are that big that they think no one can hurt them (anymore). It's often not to far from going downhill.
    It's exactly what Bill Gates wrote many years ago in one of it's books many years ago. Any idea whay their stocks don't rise now for many years?
    If would have like they had the guts to say it's over for Windows Home Server since they don;'t believe in it anymore. Same result, but it would have showed they had the balls to tell it straight forward. Now they don;t look any better than a shy sissy.
     
    > I know I would be if I was them.
    This does tell a lot about you.
     
     
    Have a nice day/weekend!
     
    Sorry to break this to you man, but with much of the market share that Microsoft owns, they can afford to do a little experimenting.  It doesn't matter if they can't make everyone happy.  They can afford that.  They are much bigger than you or me, and probably sitting around reading these posts right now laughing.  I know I would be if I was them.

    D.W.

    Have a nice day!

    But yet people are still downloading it, and using it.  Amazing.  It's not dead, it just going to have a different user base.  Bottom line.
    D.W.
    Friday, February 4, 2011 8:44 PM
  • > But yet people are still downloading it, and using it.  Amazing.  It's not dead, it just going to have a different user base.  Bottom line.
     
    Downloading doesn't equal buying the product when it goes RTM. If everyone who ever downloaded Linux would still use Linux.......
    I think it's more like the current downloaders would see with their own eyes what MS did after removing the DE (what good alternative they had to offer).
    Surprise.. none.

    Have a nice day!
    Friday, February 4, 2011 9:01 PM
  • About DL. I guess someone unfamiliair with what the requirements are thought you need a DL-DVD. Ít probabaly is someone not to smart, since it just fits on a normal DVD.
    ======
    Yeah, Leen, I figure that one out too. Since the size of the download didn't seem to warrant a double sided DVD, I decided to try burning to a standard DVD and it worked. :)

    Curiosity is killing StarFerret . . . She's so wondering why the OEM version was pulled and a 'retail' type version was added to the downloads. I have the OEM version installed and so far, things are just fine.

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward
    Friday, February 4, 2011 9:30 PM
  • <Your forgetting about all the people who just don't care to do the little vote.  The ones who it isn't a "job" for to set up a RAID array, or move a few things around.  The ones who know, and prefer a superior kernel.>
    ======
    DW, I have no problems with a 'superior kernel', or even with RAID for those who want it; however, I've been in on the Windows Home Server beta(s) from the get-go. In the beginning, the intent of WHS was to offer non-business users a way to automagically back up their data without having to jump through hoops. The limit is/was 10 computers. Further, in the beginning no 'commercial' use of WHS was allowed, although I believe Microsoft has relented and now does allow small businesses with ten or less computers to use WHS.

    I was as anxious as everyone else to be able to have a 64 bit WHS. Problem is, it seems that 'changing horses mid-stream' kind of broke things. Not the least of which was DE. I don't believe Microsoft is willingly not listening to its customers (Us), but that DE simply cannot be programmed correctly into WHS 2011.

    What started out as a simple and economical backup solution for the non-business (read 'home') users has now been drastically changed. What was a great solution for those home users is now not so great. Not only have we lost features, but we've lost ease of use and, worst of all, an economic solution.

    So, if those who can't be bothered with 'the little vote' would look at the original intent of WHS, maybe they'd stop looking down their noses at those of us who prefer what we believe we were promised. If Microsoft can't deliver it in a 64 bit package, maybe the 32 bit package could be upgraded.

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward
    Friday, February 4, 2011 9:56 PM
  • I think it's more like the current downloaders would see with their own eyes what MS did after removing the DE (what good alternative they had to offer).
    ======
    I agree, Leen. When I signed up for this beta sometime back in the stone age, I made a commitment to Microsoft to test as long as they gave me product to test. So, that's what I'll do.

    When the beta is final and WHS 2011 RTMs, I most likely will not spend my money on it; I'll just reinstall WHS 1. I can afford to pay for WHS 2011; however, if RAID is the only alternative to DE, I won't be 'going there'.

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward
    Friday, February 4, 2011 10:03 PM
  • Nancy, I agree with you in some aspects.  First of all, yes, DE cannot be programmed into WHS 2011 correctly.  That is my thought as well.  I also don't have any problem with anyone who prefers WHS v1.  More power to them.  So why don't those people stick to it, and let go of the fact that the new version isn't going to be what they want it to be?  There are a lot of people out there who still use XP, and I don't see forums with those people bashing windows 7.  They just use XP, and they are happy with it.  Also, as far as I can tell, WHS 2011 is still an excellent way to automate backups of home computers.  That is what it's best at.  That hasn't gone away. 
    D.W.
    Friday, February 4, 2011 10:13 PM
  • If you don't see anything better in WHS 2011, why are you even looking at it?  Why don't you just stick with version 1, and be happy with it?

    D.W.
    Friday, February 4, 2011 10:16 PM
  • Microsoft seem to have completely missed the "killer app" or best feature of home server.... The ability to add more and more storage and treat it as one volume! The drive extender technology was revolutionary and a big step forward... And now we go back to the old way... WHY Microoft WHY! We need the drive extender technology in ALL versions of Windows! I will definitely not be recommending that my customers move to the 2011 home server - they should stick with their current version which whilst not being perhaps as slick and productised as the 2011 release candidate has the one main feature that sets it appart from just having any old windows server with windows backup configured and a few shares... The drive extender!
    Friday, February 4, 2011 10:32 PM
  • > If you don't see anything better in WHS 2011, why are you even looking at it? 
    Way to easy words. Please point to anything better. I mean, really better/improved worthwhile, so don't come up with a changed UI.
    And why I DL'ed and install it? Simple, as I wrote earlier here, to see what has changed since the previous version of Vail to avoid remarks like "you didn't even check this version out, so you don't know what you're talking about". Functionality wise spoken, this change doesn't even come close to changes in Windows 98 SE versus Windows 98.
     
    Have a nice day/weekend!
     
     
    If you don't see anything better in WHS 2011, why are you even looking at it?  Why don't you just stick with version 1, and be happy with it?

    D.W.

    Have a nice day!
    Friday, February 4, 2011 10:33 PM
  • All by all, it feels like MS is paying you for your biased opnion. Don;t you have a non biased one?

     

    Sorry, not getting a paycheck from MS.  Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean my opinion is biased.  WHS 2011 happens to be exactly what I want.  A light version of windows server 2008 r2, with a simple user interface, automatic home PC backups, and a central location for files.  I prefer a RAID 5 array for performance.  I put the money into those drives for good performance.  It is a good fit for me.  I don't want SBS because my home doesn't need to have it's own domain.  I liked WHS version 1.  It was a great product.  But now I prefer WHS 2011. 


    D.W.
    Friday, February 4, 2011 10:36 PM
  • I agree we disagree. And basicly it's about you're willing to use RAID on a WHS. I think the vast majority of the WHS public isn't willing to do.
    It removes the part WHS was famous for, simplicity (no real tech brains required). It seems to fit you, but the "problem" is that you think the average user does
    share your opinion on RAID. It may suit you (that's OK), but I'm sure it doesn't fit the current WHS non-tech-brain-users.
    Btw, most here are tech-brain-users and even here there is a strong opinion on this. Go figure.. :-)
     
    Have fun, a nice day/weekend!
     
     

    All by all, it feels like MS is paying you for your biased opnion. Don;t you have a non biased one?

     

    Sorry, not getting a paycheck from MS.  Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean my opinion is biased.  WHS 2011 happens to be exactly what I want.  A light version of windows server 2008 r2, with a simple user interface, automatic home PC backups, and a central location for files.  I prefer a RAID 5 array for performance.  I put the money into those drives for good performance.  It is a good fit for me.  I don't want SBS because my home doesn't need to have it's own domain.  I liked WHS version 1.  It was a great product.  But now I prefer WHS 2011. 


    D.W.

    Have a nice day!
    Friday, February 4, 2011 10:47 PM
  • Ok, I can live with that.  I call for a truce, and peace,.
    D.W.
    Friday, February 4, 2011 10:51 PM
  • :-)
     
    Thanks for sharing btw!
     
    Have a nice day/weekend!
    Ok, I can live with that.  I call for a truce, and peace,.
    D.W.

    Have a nice day!
    Friday, February 4, 2011 11:01 PM
  • +1
    --
    _________________
     
    BullDawg
    In God We Trust
    _________________

    I think it's more like the current downloaders would see with their own eyes what MS did after removing the DE (what good alternative they had to offer).
    ======
    I agree, Leen. When I signed up for this beta sometime back in the stone age, I made a commitment to Microsoft to test as long as they gave me product to test. So, that's what I'll do.

    When the beta is final and WHS 2011 RTMs, I most likely will not spend my money on it; I'll just reinstall WHS 1. I can afford to pay for WHS 2011; however, if RAID is the only alternative to DE, I won't be 'going there'.

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward

    BullDawg
    Friday, February 4, 2011 11:34 PM
  • The one i'm really looking at is Breckenridge, but i'm not cool enough to try that out.
    D.W.
    Friday, February 4, 2011 11:50 PM
  • I'm still trying to download the thing..  FTM keeps timing out and I gotta hit resume..  Direct links don't work..
    Saturday, February 5, 2011 12:52 AM
  • Your forgetting about all the people who just don't care to do the little vote.  The ones who it isn't a "job" for to set up a RAID array, or move a few things around.  The ones who know, and prefer a superior kernel. 

    D.W.

     

    The fact that the vote was taken on Microsoft Connect's own site should hint to you that it is the people who care that follow and comment on the progress of WHS 2011 long before it is released. Nobody is arguing against the inclusion of a superior kernel - that goes without saying. But even though I am perfectly capable of setting up a RAID configuration I can still appreciate the convenience of being able to add more hard disks on the fly, and as hard disk sizes inevitably increase and become more affordable where is the logic in adding identical drives or facing the prospect of replacing all your drives?

    It is also painfully evident from the overwhelming feeling amongst the WHS community that even veterans are reluctant to spend their valuable time and money setting up a new system to serve their home when the previous iteration made it so much easier. How is that progress??

    This is taking the elegant (albeit not perfect) solution of WHS v1 that even relative novices could easily wrap their heads around and turning it into something that only fairly confident technophiles would take on. Which goes entirely against the principle of the original Home Server vision.

    I'm very happy for you that you don't find it a "job" to set up a RAID array, but maybe you should get out a bit more and recognise just how many people in society do. This is not meant to be an advanced product - quite the opposite.

    Saturday, February 5, 2011 1:15 AM
  • Is this not the typical user experience expected?

    Saturday, February 5, 2011 1:16 AM
  • Hi!

     

    Sorry for my rude language, but seriously MS, this must be the most retarded "update" you have done yet.  No drive Extender, Only drive letters...  :-(  RAID 5 for home users?  Seriously, this looks like the same sucess that Windows ME was.  This is a BIG disapointment. Why not rather put Vail on delay and release a proper product? This is just plain stupidity. :-(

    Again, sorry for my language.  Hope to see a much BETTER product in the future.  This is not a good product for home users.

    Saturday, February 5, 2011 1:28 AM
  • But yet people are still downloading it, and using it.  Amazing.  It's not dead, it just going to have a different user base.  Bottom line.

     

    Sorry to break this to you man, but with much of the market share that Microsoft owns, they can afford to do a little experimenting.  It doesn't matter if they can't make everyone happy.  They can afford that.  They are much bigger than you or me, and probably sitting around reading these posts right now laughing.  I know I would be if I was them.


    D.W.

     

    Just because people are downloading it does not mean they will buy it. And Microsoft makes no money without sales. And without money they can't develop new, competitive products. See where this is going?

    If someone was handing out free chocolate in the street I might take it, but if it stinks I'll not be buying it.

    Microsoft was heading down a very dark path with the long-overdue Vista turning out to be pretty darn awful. It was only by listening intently to their customers, first in the Office development team and later OS, that they got themselves back on track with their products. Now they seriously risk repeating their mistakes of old with WHS - I would like to think with the rise of Apple and Google that they are not so arrogant as they used to be in thinking that since they have market majority they can just do as they please. Customers have real alternatives now and will do their talking with their wallets.

    Either way, I'm pretty sure they're glad they don't have you running the company.

    Oh, and a quick jaunt through the WHS forums will tell you pretty much everybody in every user base is hacked off with this decision and is jumping ship.

    • Edited by Borsey1 Saturday, February 5, 2011 1:50 AM
    Saturday, February 5, 2011 1:30 AM
  • I'm pretty sure that if WHS 2011 doesn't do very well that it isn't going to be the fall of Microsoft.
    D.W.
    Saturday, February 5, 2011 1:40 AM
  • If you don't see anything better in WHS 2011, why are you even looking at it?  Why don't you just stick with version 1, and be happy with it?

    D.W.

     

    Do you really need an answer to that question?

    Just because WHS 2011 still suits your needs does not mean that is true for everyone else. And if it was only a few users who felt that way then you'd have a point. But the vast majority of people who care about this product line believe that DE was the cement that held it all together. They want an upgrade for the same reason anybody does - new features that take advantage of advances in software and hardware design to provide a superior experience. But especially in this line of products more than any other (the HOME server) that absolutely should not come at the expense of a compromised, more difficult to use/understand/implement infrastructure.

    Saturday, February 5, 2011 1:40 AM
  • +1
    I will download the RC and "evaluate" it.  I need to do that as some as my clients may be tricked into thinking the V2 is better than V1.  I need to know what is there and how it works to bail them out.
     
    The "smoke and mirrors" is already in play.  Excerpt from email I received from msftconn@microsoft.com this morning states. 
     
    "...All existing technologies such as server and client backup, health monitoring, remote web access, streaming media, and simplified dashboard management are still included..."
     
    Isn't DE an existing technology?  The above statement is a complete falsehood as "All existing technologies" are NOT included.
     
    BTW, I have no intentions of moving "up" to V2 without DE or a replacement that accomplishes the same.

    --
    _________________
     
    BullDawg
    In God We Trust
    _________________

    Just because people are downloading it does not mean they will buy it. And Microsoft makes no money without sales. And without money they can't develop new, competitive products. See where this is going?

    If someone was handing out free chocolate in the street I might take it, but if it stinks I'll not be buying it.

    Microsoft was heading down a very dark path with the long-overdue Vista turning out to be pretty darn awful. It was only by listening intently to their customers, first in the Office development team and later OS, that they got themselves back on track with their products. Now they seriously risk repeating their mistakes of old with WHS - I would like to think with the rise of Apple and Google that they are not so arrogant as they used to be in thinking that since they have market majority they can just do as they please. Customers have real alternatives now and will do their talking with their wallets.

    Either way, I'm pretty sure they're glad they don't have you running the company.

    Oh, and a quick jaunt through the WHS forums will tell you pretty much everybody in every user base is hacked off with this decision and is jumping ship.


    BullDawg
    Saturday, February 5, 2011 1:54 AM
  • BullDawg, Nancy, Leen and others above have said they will having having a look at the new RC. Everyone of the beta testers will be doing the same I imagine. I will also be downloading the RC shortly but do not expect to be upgrading and buying the RTM.

    Why pay good money for new version of a "system" that is not an upgrade to it's predecesor. The newer base OS and a prettier gui does not replace enhanced or at least similar functionality. 

    The hardware I had bought for the "Vail" Beta has been reallocated to a couple of Grandkids whose PC died :).  Given my thoughts on the direction of the WHS 2011, it is not worth buying new hardware just to try the new release. Having a look at it will simply have to wait until I can free up one of my other machines or maybe I'll run in a VM. Not too sure at present it's just not a priority now.

    As WHS 2011 presently stands, it only appears to do only one thing that cannot be easily recreated with Windows 7 and a couple of hours work. The one advantage of the RC is the ease of client machine backups with single instance storage.  But that's no enough for me to down grade WHS V1 to WHS 2011. I must be very naive, as I would expect the overall operation of an application or system to improve in versions not go backwards. Technical improvement on the "innards" are all fine and dandy but they need to be matched with a user experience that is at least as good as previous versions.

    Dave

    Saturday, February 5, 2011 3:36 AM
  • Thanks, but without Drive Extender, I'll just stick with the old version. :(
    Saturday, February 5, 2011 3:52 AM
  • <I agree we disagree. And basicly it's about you're willing to use RAID on a WHS. I think the vast majority of the WHS public <isn't willing to do.

    Absolutely, Leen. Although I build all my machines (except laptops), economy is a key feature. I will not use RAID because it does not represent economy, nor does it represent easy setup.

    <It removes the part WHS was famous for, simplicity (no real tech brains required). It seems to fit you, but the "problem" is that <you think the average user does share your opinion on RAID. It may suit you (that's OK), but I'm sure it doesn't fit the current WHS non-tech-brain-users.

    For what it's worth, although I'm not technically challenged by a long shot, I prefer what we had with WHS v1. That doesn't mean I wish to go back to v1; however, I would love for WHS 2011 to be as simple. Am I whining? H E Double Toothpick No! Like you and many others here, I have an opinion and I don't appreciate being told to stop whining and to shut up as long as I speak respectfully and intelligently about the pros and cons.

    <Btw, most here are tech-brain-users and even here there is a strong opinion on this. Go figure.. :-)

    Yep, I be one of 'em! :)

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward
    Saturday, February 5, 2011 4:02 AM
  • For what it's worth, although I'm not technically challenged by a long shot, I prefer what we had with WHS v1. That doesn't mean I wish to go back to v1; however, I would love for WHS 2011 to be as simple. Am I whining? H E Double Toothpick No! Like you and many others here, I have an opinion and I don't appreciate being told to stop whining and to shut up as long as I speak respectfully and intelligently about the pros and cons.

    <Btw, most here are tech-brain-users and even here there is a strong opinion on this. Go figure.. :-)

    Yep, I be one of 'em! :)

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward

    Absolutely correct Nancy. If differing opinions cannot be voiced here, where can they be aired. Good healthy debate is good.

    Beside's with snow covering half of the US at present, our friends in America have to keep typing fast to keep warm :) I say that with a big smile, it's 29 degree's celsius outside at the moment.

    Dave

    Saturday, February 5, 2011 4:24 AM
  • Absolutely correct Nancy. If differing opinions cannot be voiced here, where can they be aired. Good healthy debate is good.

    Beside's with snow covering half of the US at present, our friends in America have to keep typing fast to keep warm :) I say that with a big smile, it's 29 degree's celsius outside at the moment.
    ======
    Yep, you got that right.

    Cold? Did you say cold!? It didn't get over 31° today; went to the mail room and the car was still iced over at 5:00 PM Central. We were supposed to get snow last night, but instead, it must have been freezing rain. South East Texas was and is paralyzed!

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward
    Saturday, February 5, 2011 4:38 AM
  • Everyone of the beta testers will be doing the same I imagine.

     

    No I won't be.  I object to testing this software.  Windows Home Server users' feedback was not considered when DE was removed in favour of OEM priorities, what's the point of providing feedback on this version of the product when Microsoft have already deemed our feedback worthless?  Nevertheless I've also absolutely no interest in WHS2011 without DE.

    However I think more worrying is that I cannot honestly see WHS2011 having a great take up, that's assuming it gets to RTM.  WHS1 was a better all round package for the home user and if that didn't sell in great numbers, and with arguably the most prominent OEM partner shifting away - what chance does WHS2011 have in the marketplace, and as a result what support, both from MS, 3rd parties and enthusiasts is it likely to receive?

    So even if you do find WHS2011 meets your needs, I hope you don't find yourself in a virtual dead end with it in a few years time.

    Saturday, February 5, 2011 9:35 AM
  • WE, your customers, have spoken.  On Microsoft Connect, mediasmartserver.net, homeserverland.com, wegotserved.com, on Facebook (page WHS Users in Support of Drive Extender).

    It's clear Microsoft is not listening.  The Microsoft Connect vote, for instance, stands at 5690 in favor, 69 opposed to putting Drive Extender back into WHS Vail (2011).  That's 98.8% of a very large user sampling that wants this feature put back.

    Instead we've been given the "Move Folder Wizard" and partition limits of 2 TB, and to add insult to injury, drive letters!  With Drive Extender, we didn't need to worry about any of these.  WHS v1 with DE made drive management 100% automatic.  Duplication?  Automatic!  Parition limits?  No!  Storage limits?  None!

    WHS 2011, on the other hand, introduces a bunch of manual processes.  Move Folder Wizard is manual.  With 2TB limits, I have to manually break up larger shares and segragate data.  In other words, WHS 2011 has taken what used to be a hands-off process and turned it into a second job.  What home user is going to want to spend a bunch of time maintaining their home server, moving data around, haggling with 2TB partition caps, etc?  The whole point of WHS was to be a hands-off appliance, not a job for a server administrator.

    What this clearly says is that Microsoft does not care about the consumer market.  They wanted to make sure the business users didn't get alienated--businesses that likely have a server administrator on the staff to tend to the server.

    Needless to say, I have no intentions of upgrading to WHS 2011.  I like my server working quietly, faithfully, automatically.  I don't want to turn it into another job.

    EPIC FAIL.


    I agree, and in reply to Paul Adare comments, how long will it be before any of those small businesses that don't have a server admin on site, will realise too late how much more work is involved. I for one carn't afford both in expence of buying new drives to make this storage system work at home or the extra time involved.

    Was trying to work out a fool proof (storage plan) today, what size drives to use and how many, to make sure if any drives failed in home server 2011. And it's just not worth it, i realise now how much i took the older versions of DE for granted, back to drab old WHSv1 all is forgiven.

    Home Server 2011 good to look at, but lacks the inner beauty of the true Home Server V1. 

    I agree!
    Saturday, February 5, 2011 10:19 AM
  • What is this "superior kernel" myth ?

    If simplified is a synonym for superior then I can easily foresee that Windows Server 2020 will be in command window mode only. :D

    Saturday, February 5, 2011 12:21 PM
  • I have no idea why everyone is bashing Microsoft for WHS2011?? I found it excellent so far. And remember, it isn't released yet, they are still doing a could more things.
    Saturday, February 5, 2011 4:56 PM
  • Got the email about the availability of RC. I am going to vote by not downloading it since DE is the ONLY reason I use WHS V1. It's a box with 12TB of storage and I don't care where my files go when I drop them into it.  Someone mentioned SBS. Does SBS have DE-like functionality? If yes, I may give that a shot.

     

    Thx

    Saturday, February 5, 2011 5:00 PM
  • No SBS doesn't have DE. It's the reason DE was removed from WHS. The Colorado SBS products would have shared DE with WHS (sharing the same W2K8 R2 platform), but OEMs found that it didn't work particularly well for certain business applications so was removed entirely from all the products, or at least that is how I understand it.
    Saturday, February 5, 2011 5:26 PM
  • So, is there any MSFT product available that has DE-Like functionality without using RAID?
    Saturday, February 5, 2011 5:32 PM
  • Just WHS1 as far as I'm aware :(
    Saturday, February 5, 2011 5:35 PM
  • I may be downloading, installing and running it but that does not mean I will be using it as my main storage/backup server.  WHSv1 will see me right for a good few years until there is something better to replace it.  WHS 2011 is not better than WHSv1 in any way whatsoever.
    -- Free AV for WHS : http://whsclamav.sourceforge.net/
    Saturday, February 5, 2011 5:36 PM
  • +2 1/2

    --
    Don
    Saturday, February 5, 2011 5:44 PM
  • Just WHS1 as far as I'm aware :(


    Hmmm, I could see DE being implemented as 2 separate products. A seamless disk spanning product and a backup to another span.

    How hard can that be? I can see that if you tried to blend the 2 into 1 it could get complicated. So, WHS 2011 has the backup it just needs the seamless disk spanning.

     

     

    p.s. So could the following be implemented with WHS 2011?

    1. Create a spanned volume for all my shares.

    2. Create a spanned volume where the 'Duplicated' folders from the 1st Spanned Volume would go.

    3. Set up a daily back up from 1 to 2.

     

    The question remains.

    How easy is it to manually replace bad drives (and reconsitute the data) in either spanned volume 1 or 2?

     

    Saturday, February 5, 2011 5:51 PM
  • >How hard can that be? I can see that if you tried to blend the 2 into 1 it could get complicated. So, WHS 2011 has the backup it just needs the seamless disk spanning.
     
    As hard as it in the base OS because it's going to have to take driver
    level stuff.
     
    The folder duplication would be easy, so I don't understand why they
    wouldn't have put that in already.
     
    >How easy is it to manually replace bad drives (and reconsitute the data) in either spanned volume 1 or 2?
     
    I'm doing testing on it but it'll take awhile.
     
    Gut level feeling and past experience, would be hard, it would take a
    full wipe and restore of the spanned volume to restore it.  You wont
    be able to just take a disk off and get at the data like WHSV1 did.
    It's be almost as bad as a RAID0 setup, you lose one drive you lose
    all the data on the set.  Don't forget about having to have twice the
    disk that you think you need too, and with me, that's make an 8TB
    homeserver, and who knows if the client backup folder can be
    duplicated/restored with and active server.
     
     

    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Saturday, February 5, 2011 6:06 PM
  • I likely differ from most, but this version of Vail is what I would rather have over their previous release.  I have no interest in having drives formatted in a proprietary format, that's one of the only reasons I used WHS1.  There would have been zero chance I would have invested in 2011, if it meant DE with drives that could only be read in a storage pool.

    This is how I have my server setup:

    First the none-raid:

    Two WD EARS 2TB drives, plus a 1.5GB formatted like normal with NTFS

    • I use http://www.superflexible.com/ - Super Flexible File Synchronizer (stupid name, great product)
    • The replication method is set to real time between the two 2TB drives, and it does keep up fairly well.  I am ok with the small potential to loose a small quantity of data, if it hadn't been copied, and there was a failure during a write.
    • I also replicate all my critical data to Amazon S3 buckets, as I only have around 50GB I consider truly critical, photos/etc, and it only cost a few dollars a month to do this SFFS has functionality to handle this as well.  Side note, the deletes done on my server aren't replicated for 30days to S3, so if I do something stupid, it doesn't get deleted on the remote site right away.
    • If that wasn't enough, I also replicate all the data in compressed format (it zips each file individually with the original filename plus a datestamp/etc) to the third 1.5TB drive, with rules to keep 3 versions of each file.

    This works great, though the replication can eat up a small amount of the write speed (just like it always has with WHS).  This tool works completely above the file system, so nothing special needed there. I can take out the data drives, and use either of them with any computer really, linux/windows/whatever.  The folder structure is all there/etc.  2TB is a lot of space for everything but media.  I should be able to easily make due with this setup for some time, migrating larger stores to other volumes, even a duplicate of this if needed.

    Then I have a Hardware raid with eight 2TB WD EADS (with TLER enabled) in RAID6 using an Areca ARC-1222.  This gives me online expansion capability, can even migrate down to RAID 5 without loosing data, or any other sort of expansion (think raid 50/60,etc).  The only limitation is that you cannot shrink the volume once you create it, without destroying the raidset.  I know how some people think this is difficult, but honestly, if you can properly setup any sort of storage solution, you can do this now days..  I also understand it's not cheap to get one of these devices that has a quality interfaces, which is a bummer.  I can do it all through the web, without the server even being online (it has it's own Ethernet interface).  Maybe Microsoft feels they're priced out of the market though, as you really get what you pay for most often, and a $100 OEM softare license for this OS, with minimal none Retail market, hard to justify.

    I understand that many times the WHS world is meant to cover groups of people that have no IT support, but honestly, if you're using this product in OEM format, you should know what you're doing.  If not, it would likely be best to stick with a system that has made this product retail, and that should take care of the support for datasets, think DROBO or QNAP...  there will likely be many products that can take virtual raid to a new level... all with the convenience of having a Windows front end, which can make some media/sharing easier to do reliably with Windows clients.

    I couldn't be happier, I really just wanted an affordable version of Windows 2008, since the retail copy of R2 Standard is around 1k$.  They probably should wait on releasing this product, unless there are already some retail partners ready to give users something that will be plug and play.

    Saturday, February 5, 2011 9:23 PM
  • Hi Jonas,

    Sorry I have to say no thanks to this version. Will stick with v1 as long as its supported.

    Why did you have to ruin such a good product?

    Regards SEO

    Saturday, February 5, 2011 10:30 PM
  • >>How easy is it to manually replace bad drives (and reconsitute the data) in either spanned volume 1 or 2?  
     
    >I'm doing testing on it but it'll take awhile
     
    I just finished the testing -- if a spanned volume is broken by one
    disk going bad, everything is gone, just like a RAID 0 setup -- you
    can't recover anything via normal Windows recovery methods.
     
    So if a disk goes bad, it's a add a new drive in, reconfigure the
    spanned drive and do a restore. (if you have a backup, otherwise
    you're SOL.)
     
     

    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Sunday, February 6, 2011 12:15 AM
  • Just to add my 2c

    My sole reasons for using WHS over just having a straight server (of whatever OS flavour) were:

    1. It was a huge pool of storage, that I could add to with nothing but a few clicks
    2. Anything that was important I could make sure was automatically on 2 drives to protect against drive failure
    3. Nice easy interface so that I could access my data and my PCs from anywhere on the net

    Now, 3 is taken care of by Live Mesh, which seems to do a better and more stable job of remote access. That leaves me with 1 and 2. Some form of DE solution is the way to go, and doing it the way that WHS1 did it (i.e. no proprietary format) seems best.

    Without those, I don't think I'll bother with WHS.

    Sunday, February 6, 2011 12:53 AM
  • I still don't understand the DE fuss. Remember WHY they got rid of it? It was buggy, and had data integrity issues.

    With earlier Vail betas, I had to hack around in order to bypass DE, and use a proper hardware RAID solution. I'm very happy now that I don't have to worry about this.

    The vast majority of WHSv2 customers will simply buy a new OEM system. These will likely have intel chipset raid (ICH10R/ICH11) , and come with 4-6 2TB drives.

    I guess I just never got the DE thing. Sure its cool to reuse all your ancient SATA and IDE drives lying around, but at under $.05/GB for new storage? its not worth the associated issues that came with DE.
    Sunday, February 6, 2011 7:35 AM
  • Most OEM systems come with one 500GB or, if you are lucky, one 1TB.
     
    How long do you think it will take to rebuild an 8 or 12 TB array if a drive fails?  As an experiment, build an 8TB 4 drive array, fill it with data, pull a drive, and then let me know how long it takes to rebuild.  Then you would wish you had DE back.  With DE one just had to remove the failed drive, put a new one in, go to bed, and the next morning it was ready.

    --
    _________________
     
    BullDawg
    In God We Trust
    _________________
    I still don't understand the DE fuss. Remember WHY they got rid of it? It was buggy, and had data integrity issues.

    With earlier Vail betas, I had to hack around in order to bypass DE, and use a proper hardware RAID solution. I'm very happy now that I don't have to worry about this.

    The vast majority of WHSv2 customers will simply buy a new OEM system. These will likely have intel chipset raid (ICH10R/ICH11) , and come with 4-6 2TB drives.

    I guess I just never got the DE thing. Sure its cool to reuse all your ancient SATA and IDE drives lying around, but at under $.05/GB for new storage? its not worth the associated issues that came with DE.

    BullDawg
    Sunday, February 6, 2011 8:46 AM
  • BullDawg, Nancy, Leen and others above have said they will having having a look at the new RC. Everyone of the beta testers will be doing the same I imagine. I will also be downloading the RC shortly but do not expect to be upgrading and buying the RTM.

    I won't be bothering with the new one. Yes, I agreed to be a beta tester, but as this is going to be for my home use (and installing at my parents house too), there's no point in testing something that I won't be buying while the core functionality (Drive Extender) is missing.
    Sunday, February 6, 2011 11:45 AM
  • I have no idea why everyone is bashing Microsoft for WHS2011?? I found it excellent so far. And remember, it isn't released yet, they are still doing a could more things.
    There's only one reason: no Drive Extender. Personally, I'm glad to see it go, but I seem to be in the minority.
     

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP
    Sunday, February 6, 2011 11:58 AM
  • >I still don't understand the DE fuss. Remember WHY they got rid of it? It was buggy, and had data integrity issues.
     
    They could have fixed it. (and btw, that's *not* why it was pulled, it
    was LOB app compatibility.)
     
    >These will likely have intel chipset raid (ICH10R/ICH11) , and come with 4-6 2TB drives.
     
    I will be very much surprised if they have 4-6 drives, that would
    raise the cost past the target audience.
     
    >I guess I just never got the DE thing. Sure its cool to reuse all your ancient SATA and IDE drives lying around, but at under $.05/GB for new storage? its not worth the associated issues that came with DE.
     
    That's not why I liked DE, I like DE because I can add a brand new
    drive into the system to raise the storage pool if I needed more
    storage and it just works, no thinking required -- with any RAID or
    spanning disks scenario it's going to be more of a pain, and more
    costly in a RAID scenario. (have to add more than 1 drive.)
     
     

    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Sunday, February 6, 2011 1:19 PM
  • I really liked DE in WHS v1, too, but the past few months, it's been more trouble than it may be worth.  Started getting file conflict errors, and in different folders.  Sometimes turning off duplication for the affected folders helped, sometimes not.  CHKDSK shows no disk errors after days of testimg.  Rebuilding the server helped, but a few weeks later, the problem came back. I have stayed away from the advanced-format drives, as they seemed to create issues of their own.

    When file conflicts arise, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to fix them.  DE masks the physical drive containing the data, so that all seven drives have to be checked by chkdsk, taking the server off-line for days.  It might be my 2007 mobo/cpu running newer drives, or it might be something else.

    With WHS2011 RC, I set up a pair of Samsung 2TB drives in a RAID1 for data that I wish to duplicate, and then have single drives for the rest.  I'm able to put the backup database on the mirrored drives to increase the reliability there.  The only thing I seem to sacrifice is my DVD collection will have to be split to fit, as it's about 3.2 TB at the moment.  Yes, I'll likely end up with more wasted space, but this arrangement looks promising, since the other features of Vail are attractive.

    Sunday, February 6, 2011 3:19 PM
  • With a modern LSI RAID controller, and a 24TB array, I had about a 5 hour rebuild time from single drive failure. Not bad at all.

    I hate to say it, but "LOB app compatibility" issues were related to data integrity under load. There were a number of bugs people posted on this, including me. If you loose your video library or photos, its not such a big deal in the bigger picture. If a small business loses their database, they can go under. Much higher exposure.

    DEv2 was essentially software RAID at best, with over 60% overhead, and RAID0 at worst..loose one drive, loose most of your 1G+ files.

    Should it have been replaced with something better? Sure! Was there time to do so, and meet any reasonable ship schedule? nope.

    Will the firmware RAID solutions OEMs come up with be "good enough" or better? Yes. Are the hobbyists who build their own WHS servers from ancient HDDs and gear lying around going to be happy? no. Then again, there are plenty of cheap SATA RAID controllers lying around on ebay. See what you can put together!

    Oh..and I guarantee, NOBODY will be using 500GB drives for this. 1TB drives are around $40, and 2TB sell for under 100 on sale at Fry's. Even enterprise grade 2TB drives can be had for around $160.

     

    Sunday, February 6, 2011 4:31 PM
  • $900 for MegaRAID SAS 9280-16i4e SGL is not the answer, at least not for me!
     
     

    --
    _________________
     
    BullDawg
    In God We Trust
    _________________

    With a modern LSI RAID controller, and a 24TB array, I had about a 5 hour rebuild time from single drive failure. Not bad at all.

    I hate to say it, but "LOB app compatibility" issues were related to data integrity under load. There were a number of bugs people posted on this, including me. If you loose your video library or photos, its not such a big deal in the bigger picture. If a small business loses their database, they can go under. Much higher exposure.

    DEv2 was essentially software RAID at best, with over 60% overhead, and RAID0 at worst..loose one drive, loose most of your 1G+ files.

    Should it have been replaced with something better? Sure! Was there time to do so, and meet any reasonable ship schedule? nope.

    Will the firmware RAID solutions OEMs come up with be "good enough" or better? Yes. Are the hobbyists who build their own WHS servers from ancient HDDs and gear lying around going to be happy? no. Then again, there are plenty of cheap SATA RAID controllers lying around on ebay. See what you can put together!

    Oh..and I guarantee, NOBODY will be using 500GB drives for this. 1TB drives are around $40, and 2TB sell for under 100 on sale at Fry's. Even enterprise grade 2TB drives can be had for around $160.

     


    BullDawg
    Sunday, February 6, 2011 8:36 PM
  • >I still don't understand the DE fuss. Remember WHY they got rid of it? It was buggy, and had data integrity issues.
    ========
    I wouldn't call it buggy per se . . . just that the Team couldn't get it to work in 64 bit. :)

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward
    Sunday, February 6, 2011 9:02 PM
  • >I hate to say it, but "LOB app compatibility" issues were related to data integrity under load. There were a number of bugs >people posted on this, including me. If you loose your video library or photos, its not such a big deal in the bigger picture. If >a small business loses their database, they can go under. Much higher exposure.

    It seems to me that what Microsoft doesn't understand is that Windows HOME Server should mean to Microsoft what it means to HOME users. Building three systems with a "one size fits all" mentality is sure to fail for one or the other entities to whom it's directed.

    DEv2 was essentially software RAID at best, with over 60% overhead, and RAID0 at worst..loose one drive, loose most of >your 1G+ files.

    Well, no wonder it failed! I don't know much about RAID, but what I do know tells me it's a picky little . . .

    Should it have been replaced with something better? Sure! Was there time to do so, and meet any reasonable ship >schedule? nope.

    Is that our fault? Nope! Things have really changed since Bill Gates left Microsoft and Sinofsky came in and changed everything. The fact of the matter is that unless the product continues as 'promised' to us, nobody, including Microsoft, is going to be happy.

    Will the firmware RAID solutions OEMs come up with be "good enough" or better? Yes. Are the hobbyists who build their >own WHS servers from ancient HDDs and gear lying around going to be happy? no. Then again, there are plenty of cheap >SATA RAID controllers lying around on ebay. See what you can put together!

    Sorry, but I have no interest in tangling with RAID, no matter what the cost. And, for my money, buying from eBay is like buying a pig in a poke. Then there are those who are just not technically savvy enough to find exactly what they need.

    Oh..and I guarantee, NOBODY will be using 500GB drives for this. 1TB drives are around $40, and 2TB sell for under 100 on >sale at Fry's. Even enterprise grade 2TB drives can be had for around $160.

    My needs are simple. I have two Desktops and two Laptops. I don't stream music or video, so what would be wrong with my using a 500 GB drive? Well, actually, my Desktop has a 1 TB drive and so does the WHS 2011 server. I will eventually add more drives to the Server, but not until I've made an actual decision on whether to go for WHS 2011 RTM.

    Oh, and BTW, I've searched Fry's and NewEgg for those $40 drives. Not to be found. The cheapest I found was one at $49, which leaves me without a real choice of brands. I did find several 1 TB drives for $59 and $69.

    As far as going for RAID, I'm with the rest of them . . . It's just too much of a risk to spend that kind of money and have things blow up in my face.

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward
    Sunday, February 6, 2011 9:29 PM
  • "I hate to say it, but "LOB app compatibility" issues were related to data integrity under load. "

    A WHS machine is not designed for extensive load to begin with, it was designed as a data storage appliance.  Data integrity issues in DE V1 were resolved in a powerpack update when they were noticed and DE remained in WHS V1.  The primary change that was needed in DEV1 was a better way to schedule drive balancing.   The choice to completely remove DE was brash and not a customer focused decision. 
    Monday, February 7, 2011 1:42 AM
  • >>A WHS machine is not designed for extensive load to begin with, it was designed as a data storage appliance.  Data integrity issues in DE V1 were resolved in a powerpack update when they were noticed and DE remained in WHS V1.  The primary change that was needed in DEV1 was a better way to schedule drive balancing.   The choice to completely remove DE was brash and not a customer focused decision.
    ========
    Thanks, Geek! What I figured about 'extensive load', but wasn't sure of, so I didn't say it. :)

    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 BetaFerret
    Please Don't Text and Drive
    My Grand Kids May be in Your Path


    Nancy Ward
    Monday, February 7, 2011 2:49 AM
  • Before taking down my WHSv1 to test Vail I built a new Win7 x64 machine to move all my media and stuff too.  That machine now has 8 TB of drives in it. 

    on my old WHS machine I installed WHSv2 with a 160g for OS only and a 1 TB for backups and data (only copied music to WHSV2) I was inpressed at first.....  then I was getting backup errors and discovered that my 1 TB hdd was full and I was only backing up 1 laptop.  How?  it was the same hdd I used in it for WHS1 and backed up 4 machines + 110gig of music for the first year  (I later had about 3.5TB in it for Dupe and media).  So thats when i read and found out about the increase in overhead.

    After finding out about DE being removed I took down Vail,  Re-installed WHSv1, setup my online Family shares and have not looked back.

    The Win7 machine still has its 8 TB and is running Nero Mediahome server so I can stream my stuff on my 2 HD tvs.  Its just not worth the effort to go back to WHS as a media server.

    I will stay with WHSv1 for both mine and my sons home for backups, photos and online family shares & storage.

    Monday, February 7, 2011 3:13 AM
  • I think Microsoft had issues with 2TB drives and latency issues. Drive Extender fails for me using a Black 7200 2TB drive every time. This is a common problem. Drive extender is great, when it works, but it is by no means perfect. As Hard Drives increase in size, the average user has a much higher probability of buying a 2TB drive that could possibly be incompatible. In addition, while Home Server has been used by many small businesses, it isn't designed for that. It is by Title a "HOME" server. My bet is that they are trying to appeal to the common "HOME" user by creating a product that works closer to 100% of the time than having a product that doesn't work depending on the type of drive you put in your server.
    Monday, February 7, 2011 5:43 AM
  • On Sun, 6 Feb 2011 21:02:46 +0000, Nancy Ward wrote:

    I wouldn't call it buggy per se . . . just that the Team couldn't get it to work in 64 bit. :)

    This simply is not the case. Every release of "Vail" prior to the current
    one was x64 and DE V2 worked just fine.


    Paul Adare
    MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager
    http://www.identit.ca
    To err is human; to forgive, beyond the scope of the Operating System.

    Monday, February 7, 2011 7:08 AM
  • Which makes DE's removal that much more frustrating and gives me no upgrade path from my 8 drive, 12TB system.

    Vail? No thanks. Its a step backwards.

    Monday, February 7, 2011 9:07 AM
  • On Mon, 7 Feb 2011 09:07:53 +0000, NotForRent wrote:

    Which makes DE's removal that much more frustrating and gives me no upgrade path from my 8 drive, 12TB system.

    While not attempting to defend the removal of DE even if it had been left
    in Vail, you would not have had any upgrade path from WHS V1 either. Even
    with the earlier pre-RTM builds of Vail DE had changed enough since WHS V1
    that you'd still have needed to do a wipe and replace.


    Paul Adare
    MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager
    http://www.identit.ca
    If at first you don't succeed, you must be a programmer.

    Monday, February 7, 2011 9:10 AM
  • Sorry, but five hours is quite a lot of my time. Especially when you compare that to the five minutes (at most) it would take to remedy the same problem under DE.
    Monday, February 7, 2011 11:01 AM
  • While not attempting to defend the removal of DE even if it had been left
    in Vail, you would not have had any upgrade path from WHS V1 either. Even
    with the earlier pre-RTM builds of Vail DE had changed enough since WHS V1
    that you'd still have needed to do a wipe and replace.
    With the removal of DE, it seems to me that in future (if any for WHS) it should be possible to migrate from one version to the next without transfering all the data. Just as I do when I upgrade my Workstation -- I upgrade the OS and simply point My Documents, etc, to my old data (which lives on a different hard drive).
     

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP
    Monday, February 7, 2011 12:52 PM
  • Your forgetting about all the people who just don't care to do the little vote.  The ones who it isn't a "job" for to set up a RAID array, or move a few things around.  The ones who know, and prefer a superior kernel.

    D.W.

    You called for a truce, and peace, and I am all for that.  I just wanted to express my concerns about RAID and the loss of DE.

    I think DE's shortcomings are well-known in the WHS community, and the updated version Microsoft was trying to incorporate into WHS 2011 wasn't working out.  It wasn't handling super heavy workloads well, there was data corruption, etc.  So Microsoft had a choice...they could've either ported over DEv1 code or abandon DE altogether.  Maybe there were other options, but in the simplest sense, those were the options.

    I think Microsoft taking the position of not wanting to branch the code (WHS, after all, is intended for consumers, not businesses) was a cop-out.  I think they could branch the code, or make DE an installable Role or Feature, since the Server 2008 platform is role/feature-centric.  Or, make it an OS install-time decision.  Ask the user, "Do you want DE functionality?" and perhaps tell them the pros and cons.  For those that prefer RAID or those who want to be in complete control of the storage architecture, they could choose No.  For those that would rather have a storage subsystem managed the way it is in WHS v1, they could choose Yes.

    I've used RAID for years at work.  I'm a big fan of RAID (and SAN) in the enterprise.  I think it's a terrific technology, and on two of my home computers that have RAID 0/1 capability, I have RAID-1 volumes.

    Unfortunately, is higher-end RAID (RAID-5, RAID-6, RAID 1+0) really well suited for the home?  Sure some can argue that you can slap together a RAID array on the cheap, but when we're talking about the safety of my data, I'd rather go with a well-planned, well-thought-out solution.

    A core underpinning of RAID is that it requires planning.  Basically you need to know, up front, how much storage you need right out of the gate, as well as your anticipated growth over a period of years.  If you have 5 TB now and expect to add 2 TB per year over the next three years, that's 11 TB so you'd want to make sure you size your array appropriately.  Proper RAID building also calls for using identical drives...same manufacturer, same model.  Is it possible to mix and match drives in a RAID?  Sure it is, but you're sacrificing performance and capacity when you do that.  So let's say you decide to go with a RAID-5 array of 2 TB drives.  To accommodate the 11 TB above, you'd need to go with 7 x 2 TB drives (14 TB raw = 12 TB usable + 2 TB parity).  And since manufacturers are constantly changing hard drives, you have the "same model" conundrum, which means you might want to buy an extra drive or two up front in case a drive fails.

    RAID expansion is another issue.  If you undersize your array and need to expand, you either need to delete and recreate the array, or expand it.  Entry-level RAID cards aren't going to support the expansion, which means a rebuild is necessary.

    RAID is a great technology, but as you can see above, it can very easily and quickly become an expensive one.  I believe that when Microsoft came out with WHS, and HP and Acer came out with home servers to run it, the spirit and intent was for it to be an economical means for home users to back up their computers, stream their media, etc.  In WHS 2011, it seems that the push is in favor of RAID, and if you want to build your RAID right, you're going to need to open your wallet pretty wide.

    I personally would love to build a killer RAID array for WHS 2011, and my wife would probably shoot me if I did. ;)

    But at the same time, I believe the consumers deserve to have a choice...to go with DE or without.

    Matt

    Monday, February 7, 2011 4:31 PM
  • I agree with that.  DE probably could be an installable role.  Why it can't be done that way, I don't know.  The thing for me though is no matter if I was using V1 with drive extender, or 2011 now with RAID 5, I have always done one thing the same.  I run server backup.  With DE, and server backup running, I never had anything to worry about.  Now with 2011, I have RAID 5 redundancy,  and server backup running, so I feel safe. If I want to break up my array, and just go with single drives instead, I can easily do that, because I still have that backup.  I guess maybe that is why DE being gone doesn't really bother me.  I didn't rely on duplication for data safety.  I always relied on the backup hard drive.  That's just me though.

     

    There is one plus to drive extender being gone though.  I don't have a propriety format to worry about if my server ever fails, and I need to retrieve information from the drives.  I can just plug the array into any machine, and get back that data.


    D.W.
    Monday, February 7, 2011 4:54 PM
  • >There is one plus to drive extender being gone though.  I don't have a propriety format to worry about if my server ever fails, and I need to retrieve information from the drives.  I can just plug the array into any machine, and get back that data.

    DEv1 didn't have that problem, it was just plain old NTFS.  DEv2 did,
    and I really didn't care for it that way...


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Monday, February 7, 2011 5:00 PM
  • >There is one plus to drive extender being gone though.  I don't have a propriety format to worry about if my server ever fails, and I need to retrieve information from the drives.  I can just plug the array into any machine, and get back that data.

    Oh, and btw, you can't pull a drive out of a RAID 5 array and expect
    to get data off of it and you would probably need the same controller
    to plug the whole array into another machine...


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Monday, February 7, 2011 5:02 PM
  • Which is one of the reasons that it gone i'm sure.
    D.W.
    Monday, February 7, 2011 5:06 PM
  • >There is one plus to drive extender being gone though.  I don't have a propriety format to worry about if my server ever fails, and I need to retrieve information from the drives.  I can just plug the array into any machine, and get back that data.

    Oh, and btw, you can't pull a drive out of a RAID 5 array and expect
    to get data off of it and you would probably need the same controller
    to plug the whole array into another machine...


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine

    I've done it before with the controller i'm using, and had no issues.

    D.W.
    Monday, February 7, 2011 5:07 PM
  • There is one plus to drive extender being gone though. I don't have a propriety format to worry about if my server ever fails, and I need to retrieve information from the drives. I can just plug the array into any machine, and get back that data.
    DEv1 didn't have that problem, it was just plain old NTFS. DEv2 did,
    and I really didn't care for it that way...
    Yes, I didn't like it either, and it was the main reason there was no way I was going to upgrade to V2 when it had DE. Now, I might.
     

    David Wilkinson | Visual C++ MVP
    Monday, February 7, 2011 5:13 PM
  • >Which is one of the reasons that it gone i'm sure.

    No doubt.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Monday, February 7, 2011 5:18 PM
  • DEV1 was simple, the only quirk was how often it tried to balance data.  Drives were NTFS and was an 'add-on' to SBS 2003, not a real core-os component.  The simple question is why couldn't they have just ported DE over from V1?
    Monday, February 7, 2011 5:19 PM
  • >Yes, I didn't like it either, and it was the main reason there was no way I was going to upgrade to V2 when it had DE. Now, I might.

    I probably wouldn't have either but I may not because it doesn't have
    DEv1 in it either.  I've got to find some compelling reason to give it
    up and I haven't yet.


    Bob Comer - Microsoft MVP Virtual Machine
    Monday, February 7, 2011 5:20 PM
  • Not really sure.  My only guess would be that it has something to do with the 32bit to 64bit conversion. 
    D.W.
    Monday, February 7, 2011 5:23 PM
  • dlwilliams12 ... could you tell me what controller you are using.  Thought I might play around with setting up a raid5 on vail.
    Monday, February 7, 2011 7:41 PM
  • I'm a consumer with technical background and 3 WHS1. Matt is so right. The target audience are consumers who are looking for a solution that make their data safe. Nobody can expect from "real" consumers to set up a RAID System, manage it and rebuild data if something fails. DE was/ is a simple solution that works for consumer. Even if the WHS1 crashes completely, you can access all data by connecting the HD to a normal PC.

    I realy do not understand why this new release will come out with a RAID solution (if installed!) that is NOT for consumers! I will stay with my WHS1's.

    Juergen 

    Monday, February 7, 2011 8:20 PM
  • I don't think the OEM's will have RAID.  I think they will go for a setup where if you want to add drives, you move your folders around.  Hence the move folder wizard.  2 folders per drive, 1 per drive, whatever works.  And from there, server backup.
    D.W.
    Monday, February 7, 2011 8:44 PM
  • On board intel is working perfect for me.

    D.W.
    Monday, February 7, 2011 8:45 PM
  • On board intel is working perfect for me.

    D.W.

    had raid using onboard intel before... made the big mistake of pulling drives and selling the mobo/cpu to upgrade.  lost all data on the array since I could not get the old mobo back
    Monday, February 7, 2011 11:09 PM
  • You are correct. The server install ISO will fit on DVD5 media. we are chaning that reference on the Connect site.  you could also use the the USB DVD tool here: http://store.microsoft.com/Help/ISO-Tool

    Duncan Chalmers,

    Home Server Release Manager

    Wednesday, February 9, 2011 1:09 AM
  • So, one of the touted new features of Vail was better media streaming abilities.  With the RC of Vail can I stream media (specifically video) stored on WHS to my Windows 7 phone?  Not over a LAN but over the net.
    Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:36 AM
  • I hope they will let Droid x do it soon.
    Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:47 PM
  • I am firmly in the "You have got to be crazy" camp. 

    You had a great product that competed favorably with Linux and Unix NAS systems.  Now I am not sure what this product is supposed to be exactly.

    You release two Beta versions.  You got thousands of comments and suggestions.  I'll bet there was not one single suggestion nor comment that says, "Hey you ought to take Drive Extender out of your final release."  No one! and I'll bet lunch for a week on me.

    I am thinking the visionary MS manager who "invented" WHS must have gotten a promotion and moved to another group.  Am I close?

    Sunday, February 13, 2011 8:30 PM
  • WE, your customers, have spoken.  On Microsoft Connect, mediasmartserver.net, homeserverland.com, wegotserved.com, on Facebook (page WHS Users in Support of Drive Extender).

    It's clear Microsoft is not listening.  The Microsoft Connect vote, for instance, stands at 5690 in favor, 69 opposed to putting Drive Extender back into WHS Vail (2011).  That's 98.8% of a very large user sampling that wants this feature put back.

    Instead we've been given the "Move Folder Wizard" and partition limits of 2 TB, and to add insult to injury, drive letters!  With Drive Extender, we didn't need to worry about any of these.  WHS v1 with DE made drive management 100% automatic.  Duplication?  Automatic!  Parition limits?  No!  Storage limits?  None!

    WHS 2011, on the other hand, introduces a bunch of manual processes.  Move Folder Wizard is manual.  With 2TB limits, I have to manually break up larger shares and segragate data.  In other words, WHS 2011 has taken what used to be a hands-off process and turned it into a second job.  What home user is going to want to spend a bunch of time maintaining their home server, moving data around, haggling with 2TB partition caps, etc?  The whole point of WHS was to be a hands-off appliance, not a job for a server administrator.

    What this clearly says is that Microsoft does not care about the consumer market.  They wanted to make sure the business users didn't get alienated--businesses that likely have a server administrator on the staff to tend to the server.

    Needless to say, I have no intentions of upgrading to WHS 2011.  I like my server working quietly, faithfully, automatically.  I don't want to turn it into another job.

    EPIC FAIL.


    I agree, and in reply to Paul Adare comments, how long will it be before any of those small businesses that don't have a server admin on site, will realise too late how much more work is involved. I for one carn't afford both in expence of buying new drives to make this storage system work at home or the extra time involved.

    Was trying to work out a fool proof (storage plan) today, what size drives to use and how many, to make sure if any drives failed in home server 2011. And it's just not worth it, i realise now how much i took the older versions of DE for granted, back to drab old WHSv1 all is forgiven.

    Home Server 2011 good to look at, but lacks the inner beauty of the true Home Server V1. 

    I agree!

    Me to.

    One sign of a company that is over the hump and on its downward journey is one that decides unilaterally to remove product features because of compatibility with the company’s other products.  What has happened is other workgroups within the company have become the customer.

    Sunday, February 13, 2011 9:02 PM
  • I found my own solution, a basic WHS install with 1TB for PC backups.  I use it for absolutely nothing else.  If it fails, no problem, I put in a new drive and run my backups on my machines again and I'm back where I was yesterday. 

    WHS is only for PC backups now. 

    For all my data backups, I use Amahi with Greyhole.

     

    I'm not going with Vail.  With DE gone, I don't want it. 

    Monday, February 21, 2011 7:37 PM
  • I was one of those who hated DE technology.  Anyone who prefered RAID card technology and wanted GPT was SOL with the old version (and believe me I got into it with WHS MVPs over the issue).  Now I have 2 RAID cards in my system, so simple and easy!  No worrys about duplication or getting out of sync, and only two drives.

     

    System Drive: 500GB 2 disk RAID 1 with live spare

    Data Drive: 9TB 7 disk RAID 5 with live spare

     

    Cost:

    High Criteria 1740 controller for system is $119 at newegg

    High Criteria 2220 controller for data is $253

    Tuesday, February 22, 2011 3:57 PM
  • Wow, only $372 extra for controllers you shouldn't have to buy.  Does not sound like a great home solution to me.
    Friday, February 25, 2011 5:52 AM
  • I have just ordered a home server from acer as it has not arrived yet i don't know what O/S it has.

    But I hate the idea of the storage pool (de) and was thinking of sending it back but i can't.

    I want each drive to have it's own drive letter not to merge them all together I also wanted to take out the 1TB drives.

    From what i have been reading I won't get an install disc of the O/S and I won't be able to take the 1TB drive out as it has the O/S pre installed on it.

    I like to format and re install when I have problems with the system.

    I thought it was a NAS but I was wrong, Ii think it's going to get sold on ebay if I can't get the VGA/Mouse/Keyboard, header debug board (about £80:00 + postage) I think.

    If I can get 1 that is That would make all the diffrance (just like a pc I have read).

    I have 4 2TB Hitachi Coolspin's for the unit I never even thought i would have a problem installing a new O/S on it.

    Vail sounds like a good way to use the drives, separately with folder copy much better.

    Because of that alone, that would make me get it over the old 1, in fact if I had known about the storage pool I would not of bothered to get 1 in the first place.

    The more I read the more I know I have made a mistake of buying a windows Home Server.

    I should of got another Qnap slower I know but I just install the disc and off you go.

    I have been saving for ages to get another NAS impulse buying not a good idea. 

    I have even thought of putting FreeNAS on the server but I can't even do that without spending 80 pounds (VGA Board).

    Well I'll just have to suck it and see when it arives in 4 days time.

    I'm hoping I can put Vail on and if so just how much do you think it will cost to upgrade from the old WHS.
    Sunday, March 27, 2011 6:35 AM
  • Am i the only one who found DE slow and challenged? Nice and simple but I found transferring large amounts of data like 64gb of Recorded TV to or from a MCE PC very slow and prone to failure. Once I removed the drives back down to a single one the performance was much better. Interesting I haven't heard a single DE complaint in this thread. I am going to 2011

    Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:17 AM
  • One sign of a company that is over the hump and on its downward journey is one that decides unilaterally to remove product features because of compatibility with the company’s other products.  What has happened is other workgroups within the company have become the customer.

    I don't know if I'd say Microsoft is over the hump, but they have clearly changed the focus of all their products to very large enterprise-level customers.  It feels like MS is just designing products for their own internal use and then trying to sell them to companies in the same boat.  Saves them the effort of designing products they wouldn't use internally themselves.

    All of their server, management and virtualization products are geared towards companies with hundreds of servers and thousands of desktops.  There is nothing for smaller companies.

    As for DE, the story is that it simply couldn't scale to larger capacities.  I don't know if that is true or not, but Data Protection Manager (their enterprise-level backup product) does some funky stuff behind the scenes to avoid using drive letters and it can support many, many, many TBs of storage.  While DE may not have been a good long-term solution, clearly they have the technology to handle very large capacity storage pools without using drive letters.

    Friday, April 1, 2011 1:17 PM
  • On Fri, 1 Apr 2011 13:17:04 +0000, ruadog wrote:

    All of their server, management and virtualization products are geared towards companies with hundreds of servers and thousands of desktops.? There is nothing for smaller companies.

    Sorry but this is just completely untrue. For example there is a whole line
    of Small Business Server products (including but not limited to SBSE 2011
    which is very similar to WHS 2011) aimed squarely at the market you're
    saying is not being served. In addition there are products such as:

    System Center Essentials
    Microsoft InTune
    BPOS or Office365

    and the list goes on.

    http://www.microsoft.com/business/en-us/?fbid=la9-xyHZ7GH


    Paul Adare
    MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager
    http://www.identit.ca
    Terminal:  What most people have to be before consenting to see a doctor.

    Friday, April 1, 2011 1:49 PM
  • Paul it is true.  Do you support small business directly yourselve? For less than 15 people google apps and Windows Home Server is all that is needed.  Exchange is far too complicated, AD is a waste of time (the whole point of AD is to apply group wide policies, in a small business they are no groups as such).  I think ruadog is spot on when he says MS is geared towards large organisations.
    -- Free AV for WHS : http://whsclamav.sourceforge.net/
    Friday, April 8, 2011 3:19 PM