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    I installed Vail on a 1.5 TB drive. It seems to have allocated about 800 GB on the Backups share and hardly anything to the Media Libs. I was just wondering why? And can I change it? I have about 800GB in video that I would like that to go to?

    Thanks!

    Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:20 PM

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    The size of the data shares are dynamic and the free space on the disk pool will be allocated to the shares as required in 1GB blocks.

    As the backup share is up to 800 GB I would assume that you have done a client backup of the machine that presently contains the video's.

    If you copy the video files to the video share in data pool the video space will grow to accommodate the data. Only up to the maximum amount free space obviously.

    Thursday, May 20, 2010 9:05 PM
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    When you say "allocate" do you mean 800GB is being made available or is being used? If it's being used, this is most likely because your PC or PC's are being backed up on a daily basis and taking up that space. If your intention is to not utilize this space to backup your PC's, you can reconfigure each PC to not backup a particular hard drive, or to not backup at all, although this is not recommended. An alternative would be to add an additional hard drive to increase your overall storage pool.

    If your understanding is that 800GB is being made available and is not necessarily being used, then I'm afraid that this scenario doesn't exist unless you have a second 800GB hard drive connected.

    In WHS, a "backup share" concept doesn't exist. When adding a hard drive to a WHS system, you can either assign this hard drive to Server Storage or Backup Storage. Server Storage is pooled and holds shares as well as network PC backups. Backup Storage on the other hand is used to backup the Windows Home Server system, it's shares as well as the backup database for network PC backups. Hard rives cannot be assigned to both at the same time.

    If you have Vail installed on a 1.5TB drive and only one drive exists, this drive will be used for Server Storage. On a system with one drive, a portion is allocated to the system and the rest is available as storage for shares and network PC backups (backups of your PC's are not exposed as a share, they are contained in a specific location on your hard drives used for Server Storage).

    Thursday, May 20, 2010 9:31 PM

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    The size of the data shares are dynamic and the free space on the disk pool will be allocated to the shares as required in 1GB blocks.

    As the backup share is up to 800 GB I would assume that you have done a client backup of the machine that presently contains the video's.

    If you copy the video files to the video share in data pool the video space will grow to accommodate the data. Only up to the maximum amount free space obviously.

    Thursday, May 20, 2010 9:05 PM
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    When you say "allocate" do you mean 800GB is being made available or is being used? If it's being used, this is most likely because your PC or PC's are being backed up on a daily basis and taking up that space. If your intention is to not utilize this space to backup your PC's, you can reconfigure each PC to not backup a particular hard drive, or to not backup at all, although this is not recommended. An alternative would be to add an additional hard drive to increase your overall storage pool.

    If your understanding is that 800GB is being made available and is not necessarily being used, then I'm afraid that this scenario doesn't exist unless you have a second 800GB hard drive connected.

    In WHS, a "backup share" concept doesn't exist. When adding a hard drive to a WHS system, you can either assign this hard drive to Server Storage or Backup Storage. Server Storage is pooled and holds shares as well as network PC backups. Backup Storage on the other hand is used to backup the Windows Home Server system, it's shares as well as the backup database for network PC backups. Hard rives cannot be assigned to both at the same time.

    If you have Vail installed on a 1.5TB drive and only one drive exists, this drive will be used for Server Storage. On a system with one drive, a portion is allocated to the system and the rest is available as storage for shares and network PC backups (backups of your PC's are not exposed as a share, they are contained in a specific location on your hard drives used for Server Storage).

    Thursday, May 20, 2010 9:31 PM
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    I installed on a system running 4 1 TB hard drives. Looks like vail allocated 1 drive for video, 1 drive for music, 1 drive for documents, and 1 drive for system and everything else. I am new to this so I probably missed something. But when I try to copy my video collection from my nas to the Video folder it comes back that the destination does not have enough room. I have a total of 4 TB or space, minus 60 Gigs for OS. My source is 1 TB in size. What am I doing wrong? I looked at the drives and folder section from the dashboard. The only thing I can do there is add drives to server storage and remove drives. No options on how it allocates that storage. I was under the impression that home server does soft raid. Meaning it will grow as you throw hard drives at it, and all the data is redundant.
    Wednesday, June 23, 2010 3:23 PM
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    Vail's "drives" on the server do not match the physical drives used for storage. They only match to the shares that are seen on the network. The storage pool manages all the allocation for you.

     

    It's possible that destination share only shows 1GB free space by default (as the initial size of the strip should be 1 GB). It should expand as more data is added. If you are transferring more than 1GB to a share, you may have break it down into increments.

    Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:34 PM
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    Are all of the drives showing in the dashboard as being added to server storage? or do you have one drive with the 60GB system partition and the remainder of the drive showing as storage? Are the other three disks showing as disk's available but not yet added to the system. 

    If the disks are not added, add them to the server storage and then there will be no issue's with copy the video's to the video share. The individual shares will grow as required in 1 GB chunks.

    There is no requirement to only copy in 1GB chunks thats what the OS is for. :) 

     

    Thursday, June 24, 2010 1:05 AM
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    Yes I do have a 60 system partition and the remainder showing as storage. I Added the other 3 1TB drives to be used as storage. I removed them and added them back in just in case. From what I am hearing the shares space will grow as needed. On my current NAS I am trying to copy about 1 TB of video files to the Video share. From what you are saying the system will increase that share space to accomodate my copy. Some of the files are 20 Gigs in size (mkv files). When I map a drive to my NAS select all the video sub folders that I have, right and click on copy. I then right click and select paste on the video share on the server (which is set to 900+ GB) I get an error not enough space on target.
    Thursday, June 24, 2010 1:47 PM
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    Can you tell us more about the machine from which you're doing the copying?
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Thursday, June 24, 2010 2:18 PM
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    It is a custom built full tower pc. Core2duo CPU (E8400) 2Gigs of RAM. Purchased a new mother board with 6 sata ports - that's where the 4 1 TB drives are plugged into. My optical drive i left on legacy IDE just to keep the sata pure hard drive. I will try to look at more of it today and see if I did not miss something. I appreciate all the responses back, it is probably some stupid oversight on my part. - Stay tuned
    Thursday, June 24, 2010 8:10 PM
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    Yea my guess is the 20 GB-sized files are the problem. Vail doesn't allocate 20 GB stripes of free space.

    I think there is already something on Microsoft Connect, but might want to report this as a bug anyway

    Thursday, June 24, 2010 8:27 PM
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    I have just been experimenting and have not been able to recreate your problem, but thought if I explained what I had done without any issue's you may be able to see a difference that would explain what was happening when you attempt the large file copies and get the not enough space error.

    What I did firstly, was remove the V1 connector and re-install the Vail connecter. Been getting bored and am waiting for the next release :).  Logged into the Vail server via RDP and created a new share within the Dashboard called "big file copy test" which was allocated R Drive.

    Not having a big enough file, zipped 6 DVD rips together to give a 30 GB single file.

    From the Vail OS explorer mapped a new drive "Q" to a shared folder on my main work station.

    Within the RDP session to the Vail server copied the 30GB file to the new share without any issue's. Once the copy had finished deleted the Vail server copy.

    Uninstalled the Vail connector from my workstation and rebooted.

    Once again RDP'ed to the Vail server and once again was able to copy the 30GB file from the workstation to the server. ( As best as I can, emulating a NAS box by using the workstation minus the connector.)

    The above was done while using a RDP session to the server and Dashboard on the server desktop at that point. The copy was done within the RDP session.

    Leaving the mapped "Q" drive in place, I repeated the other steps after creating a new shared folder using the Dashboard login from the workstation rather than the server desktop Dashboard. This time copied the file from my workstation using the workstation Vail shares. Once again the file copies were fine. I was unable to create the not enough space error.

    As a final test a created another share and only gave myself read access, wondering whether the error was a red herring rather than reality( Not exactly unknown :) ) but when I tried to copy to the share I got an appropriate permissions error.

    Cannot think of anything else to try at present.

    I do not know whether this will help or not but I have been unable to reproduce the problem. Possibly someone with access to a NAS box can do something similar to try and resolve what is causing your issue.

    Dave

    Friday, June 25, 2010 10:32 AM
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    Ok

    I removed the 3 extra drives from server storage and added them back in. I am new to the home server setup so bare with me:) I noticed that Vail creates a drive letter for each default share is that correct? - Documents, Videos, Music, Pictures, PC backup space, Recorded TV Shows. Each receives a drive letter in the upper end of the alphabet (v,w,x,y,z). On my system after re-adding the drives, each of these drive letters has 1.57 TB of space. I then proceeded to start my copy and it seems to work. Not sure what is different. Maybe I didn't wait long enough. Not sure. I will report back once my 675GB of video files finishes copying :)

    My next question is what happens when I start hitting the 1.57 TB mark? Will it give me more space from one of the other drive letter, or example recorded tv shows since I wont be using that one? I also proceeded and have my remote access setup, got my router to work. I just need to figure out the domain name I want to use and then I can start to play with this connector software, what ever that is - again I'm new to this. Have been using a 1TB NAS :)

    Thanks for all your help - this is a nice forum with nice people - Thank you.

    Friday, June 25, 2010 2:24 PM
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    The 1.57TB free space is the total free space in the storage pool. When each of the default shares is created, as you mentioned each is assigned a different drive letter and has a starting size of 1GB. As you copy data the size of each share will grow to accomodate the data as required by taking more space from the total free storage pool. The extra space is allocated 1GB chunks.

    Unless you have already copied a lot of data to the shares on the server, your free disk space does not sound correct. On my test system I have a 160GB system drive that is not a part of the storage pool. The storage pool consists of a 500Gb and a 2T disk. This gives me a total storage pool of 2068Gb. If you look in the dashboard on the "Server Folders and Hard Drive" tab do you see a total storage pool of around 3600 GB's?

    So what you have is the default shares each having an initial size of 1GB. All of the remaining disk space is available in the storage pool to be allocated as required to any share. The dahboards 1.57TB of free space showing for each share is the same free space. I do think you are able to remove the default shares and I am the same as you and do not use Recorded TV. Although I do find it an anoyance not being able to remove it there is no real problem, resource wise, as it only has 1 GB of space allocated  to it. In the great scheme of things this is nothing. 

    Don't forget this is a beta release of Vail for testing purposes only. Once the system is released, it will be a clean install. Make certain that you keep copies your data safe.

    Dave

    • Edited by frogz1 Friday, June 25, 2010 9:30 PM Add Warning
    Friday, June 25, 2010 9:20 PM
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    The 1.57TB free space is the total free space in the storage pool. When each of the default shares is created, as you mentioned each is assigned a different drive letter and has a starting size of 1GB. As you copy data the size of each share will grow to accomodate the data as required by taking more space from the total free storage pool. The extra space is allocated 1GB chunks.

    Unless you have already copied a lot of data to the shares on the server, your free disk space does not sound correct. 

    Actually, if he hasn't changed anything after adding the 3 drives, it is correct.  Folder Duplication is enabled by default when you add a second drive.  When you take Folder Duplication (plus the built-in overhead for the error-correcting functionality) into account, 1.57 TB free for each volume sounds about right.  The problem is he's looking at the volumes from the server desktop, not the total free space on the Dashboard.  (By the way Shkelton, logging into the server desktop is unsupported.)   
    On my test system I have a 160GB system drive that is not a part of the storage pool. The storage pool consists of a 500Gb and a 2T disk. This gives me a total storage pool of 2068Gb. If you look in the dashboard on the "Server Folders and Hard Drive" tab do you see a total storage pool of around 3600 GB's?

    So what you have is the default shares each having an initial size of 1GB. All of the remaining disk space is available in the storage pool to be allocated as required to any share. The dahboards 1.57TB of free space showing for each share is the same free space. I do think you are able to remove the default shares and I am the same as you and do not use Recorded TV.

     No, you cannot remove default shares. 

    Although I do find it an anoyance not being able to remove it there is no real problem, resource wise, as it only has 1 GB of space allocated  to it. In the great scheme of things this is nothing. 

    Don't forget this is a beta release of Vail for testing purposes only. Once the system is released, it will be a clean install. Make certain that you keep copies your data safe.

    Dave

     


    Saturday, June 26, 2010 4:43 PM
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    Thanks kariya21,

    Actually, if he hasn't changed anything after adding the 3 drives, it is correct.  Folder Duplication is enabled by default when you add a second drive.  When you take Folder Duplication (plus the built-in overhead for the error-correcting functionality) into account, 1.57 TB free for each volume sounds about right.  The problem is he's looking at the volumes from the server desktop, not the total free space on the Dashboard.  (By the way Shkelton, logging into the server desktop is unsupported.)   

    I thought the 1.57 TB free sounded about the correct figure with duplication etc. But could not work out how it was being seen. Never considered that this is what would be seen by looking at the shares via the the server desktop.

    This may be the wrong place to ask, but if so, would you please point me to the right location. How do you create the grey text box when quoting from other posts?. Probably I'm missing something glaringly obvious but have not found how to do it yet. :)

    Dave

    Saturday, June 26, 2010 10:13 PM
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    If not loggin into the server desktop then how do you administer the server? RDP all the time? I guess I'm too old school:)

    Well I copied over the video files it worked fine, now coping over my pictures (25 Gigs). Thanks for reminding me about backing up all my files - completely forgot it would be a clean install. So I finally figured out that I need to go to the link http://server/connect it took me a while to find that. Is there a quick how to guide or better yet a manual on what and how things should be done? It probably is in here someplace just have not looked enough. I find that the dashboard (at least on the server desktop) is very limited. I'm no expert but man only very basic and simple tasks. I did setup the website I think. The server keeps saying that I have succesfully setup my router, but then I get a critical alert saying I need to configure my router - That's a seperate issue for a different post. But I did enable uPNP on my router - Perhaps its just too old.

    Reading yor comments the 1.57 TB is the free space I have total across all drive letters? That's 9 x 1.57 = 14.3 TB. That's impossible since I only have 4 1TB drives. So I assume that minus the 60 Gig for the system I would have roughly 3.5 TB for storage, so where did the 2 TB go?

    Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:03 AM
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    Hey!! nothing wrong with old school. If my hair was any greyer it would be white :)

    To the best of my knowledge you need to RDP to the server to setup a mapped drive to your NAS box. Other than that once you have installed the connector on your workstation, you should do the administration by logging into the Dashboard on the workstation. The aim is to have everything that needs to be done, available via the workstation Dashboard. While a noble aim, in WHS Version 1 some of the missing functions that users wanted were supplied by the addin authors.

    I wouldn't be too concerned about the present very basic Dashboard. This is the first public beta of WHS V2 and from the comments made over the last couple of months quite a few bits of the interface never made this build. It's likely that some of requirements that are not supplied as a part of the final release, will have addins created by various authors to fill the gap. There is no manual as such but the release notes cover a lot of the basics. There rest can be covered by playing around and see what's there.

    Now to your phantom 14TB of disk :).

    Using very approximate numbers.

    If the sytem only has a single disk of 1TB, the installation of Vail would give you a 60GB system partition, leaving 940GB for the storage pool. Out of this storage pool approx. 12% (110GB) is taken for CRC checking. This would leave around 830GB for the data.

    When more than 1 disk is installed the picture changes as duplication is then turned on for all shares by default.

    Therefore in your case the 4TB of disk becomes 60GB for the system, the remaining space for the storage pool of 3940GB is then effectively halved to allow for the duplication, leaving 1970 GB. But wait just when you thought it was safe there's more. A further 12% (236GB) is taken for the CRC checking. This will leave an available pool of free space for the storage pool of around 1730GB. Which given the rough figures, fits in reasonably well with your initial 1570Gb of free space.

    As stated by Kariya21 this is what you see if you look at the shares on the RDP desktop. Wrong place to look. At that point you are seeing multiple views of the same free space. Z drives 1.57TB free is the exact same free space shown by Y drive etc etc. If you steer clear of the RDP desktop and look at the disks via the Dashboard it should become clearer. The free space shown is not cumulative but multiple views of the same locations.

    I apologise if this sounds a bit like I'm preaching, not intended, just trying to clarify the situation for you.

    Dave

    • Edited by frogz1 Sunday, June 27, 2010 10:58 AM Fix bad calculation :)
    Sunday, June 27, 2010 10:08 AM
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    Thanks kariya21,

    I thought the 1.57 TB free sounded about the correct figure with duplication etc. But could not work out how it was being seen. Never considered that this is what would be seen by looking at the shares via the the server desktop.

    This may be the wrong place to ask, but if so, would you please point me to the right location. How do you create the grey text box when quoting from other posts?. Probably I'm missing something glaringly obvious but have not found how to do it yet. :)

    Dave

    Just click the button that says "Quote" at the bottom of each post.  It automatically puts everything from that post into a gray box.
    Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:44 PM
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    If not loggin into the server desktop then how do you administer the server? RDP all the time?  
    No.  All administrative functions are done through the Dashboard that has been installed on a client.

    I guess I'm too old school:)

    Well I copied over the video files it worked fine, now coping over my pictures (25 Gigs). Thanks for reminding me about backing up all my files - completely forgot it would be a clean install. So I finally figured out that I need to go to the link http://server/connect it took me a while to find that. Is there a quick how to guide or better yet a manual on what and how things should be done?

    The documentation is on Connect (same place as the iso).

    It probably is in here someplace just have not looked enough. I find that the dashboard (at least on the server desktop) is very limited. 
    It's supposed to be simple.  The concept of WHS is a simple server to backup clients, serve data, and stream media.  The target audience of the product is users who are not that computer savvy.  It is not meant to be used as a full fledged server.  If that's what you want, you should be using Server 2008 R2 instead.

    I'm no expert but man only very basic and simple tasks. I did setup the website I think. The server keeps saying that I have succesfully setup my router, but then I get a critical alert saying I need to configure my router - That's a seperate issue for a different post. But I did enable uPNP on my router - Perhaps its just too old.

    Reading yor comments the 1.57 TB is the free space I have total across all drive letters? That's 9 x 1.57 = 14.3 TB. That's impossible since I only have 4 1TB drives. So I assume that minus the 60 Gig for the system I would have roughly 3.5 TB for storage, so where did the 2 TB go?


    Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:51 PM
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    Thank you very much for that info Frogz1 - that was a perfect explaination and no it was not preachy :)

    So it is mostly a mirrior system versus a soft raid 5 style. So you get half the free space instead of roughly 3/4. I can live with that if it makes my data secure. I have room for 2 more drives if needs be :)

    I did get the connect software installed and I do now see the dashboard.

    My next two questions are none storage related so point me in the right direction if you can.
    1. Add-ins and media center setup
    2. remote access, setting up the router manually since it keeps coming back that my router is not setup or blocking things when the wizard runs

    That's it. Look forward to the next release.

    Sunday, June 27, 2010 8:46 PM
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    Thanks kariya21,

    I thought the 1.57 TB free sounded about the correct figure with duplication etc. But could not work out how it was being seen. Never considered that this is what would be seen by looking at the shares via the the server desktop.

    This may be the wrong place to ask, but if so, would you please point me to the right location. How do you create the grey text box when quoting from other posts?. Probably I'm missing something glaringly obvious but have not found how to do it yet. :)

    Dave

    Just click the button that says "Quote" at the bottom of each post.  It automatically puts everything from that post into a gray box.


    Yes, I missed the glaringly obvious!

    Thank You Kariya21,

    Sunday, June 27, 2010 10:12 PM
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    My next two questions are none storage related so point me in the right direction if you can.
    1. Add-ins and media center setup
    2. remote access, setting up the router manually since it keeps coming back that my router is not setup or blocking things when the wizard runs

    At present I am only aware of one Vail addin that has been released for beta testing. It's called "AWIECO Wake on LAN v0.1.3". I have yet to take a look at it.

    If you search though this forum you will find several threads on Media Centre. The Media Centre situation is not from my perspective good news, but the threads are worth reading to see the present reality.

    I am also having an on going issue with Vail telling me that remote access is not configured correctly. I have simply ignored it at present. Remote access is working fine after manually configuring the port forwarding in the router and telling the Vail wizard to not use UPNP.

    Dave

     

    • Edited by frogz1 Thursday, July 1, 2010 2:44 AM Correct Beta addin name
    Sunday, June 27, 2010 10:40 PM
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    Hello everyone.

    I'm back trying to get everything going again. I am using the same machine. I finally got the remote access to complete and configure correctly.

    I am still looking for a nice user guide or start guide. Also is there a difference between server storage and non-default server storage? why did my drives create the non-defualt storage? How do I get rid of it and put everything nicely in one server storage?

    Sunday, August 15, 2010 11:45 PM
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    Hello everyone.

    I'm back trying to get everything going again. I am using the same machine. I finally got the remote access to complete and configure correctly.

    I am still looking for a nice user guide or start guide. 

    As this is beta, there is no user guide or start guide, only release notes (that usually says how to deal with known issues).

    Also is there a difference between server storage and non-default server storage?

    Default storage is the current storage pool.  Non-default server storage is a storage pool that Vail sees, but is not using.  A non-default server storage can be promoted to default storage when no other storage pool exists.

    why did my drives create the non-defualt storage?

    Did you try to do some sort of server reinstallation?  Note that there are bugs with that function and might be what caused it.

    How do I get rid of it and put everything nicely in one server storage?

    Best thing to do is to start over from scratch (do a New Install, then copy everything to the server shares afterwards).
    Sunday, August 15, 2010 11:56 PM
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    You shouldn't try to promote non-default server storage to default; it doesn't work correctly in this build. You can access the shares through the server desktop; there's a folder named something like "Non-default Server Storage 1" in the root of your server's C: drive. Copy as much as you can from there to your server's shares, remove a drive from non-default, and repeat as needed.
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Monday, August 16, 2010 2:07 AM
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    This was a clean re-install (4th).

    But I figured it out. Had to remove the drives from storage and add them back in.

    Now that everything is working great this Homeserver stuff is pretty neat!!!.

    Now I would love to know if there is a way to create a share (other then the defaults) and add it to a the media gallery that is available
    on the website of the server? I know this is the wrong spot for this question if there is a better forum post let me know. To be more specific. If I log into my
    via the web browser I see shared folders and Media. The new share I created I can access through shared folders, but how do I get it to show up in media? And
    if there is a way can I have permissions to it so that user A can access it via media but user B cannot? Love the steaming of videos and the thumbnail view and slideshow view of pictures. But I want to be able to limit who sees what. Not just dump everything into pictures.

     

    Monday, August 16, 2010 2:08 AM
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    This was a clean re-install (4th).

    But I figured it out. Had to remove the drives from storage and add them back in.

    Now that everything is working great this Homeserver stuff is pretty neat!!!.

    Now I would love to know if there is a way to create a share (other then the defaults) and add it to a the media gallery that is available
    on the website of the server? 

    It's not based on "shares" per se.  It's based on media.  You can put media files in any share and Vail will automatically add it to the appropriate Media Gallery.

    I know this is the wrong spot for this question if there is a better forum post let me know. To be more specific. If I log into my
    via the web browser I see shared folders and Media. The new share I created I can access through shared folders, but how do I get it to show up in media? And
    if there is a way can I have permissions to it so that user A can access it via media but user B cannot?

    No.  It's either anyone who can logon to the server or no one.

    Love the steaming of videos and the thumbnail view and slideshow view of pictures. But I want to be able to limit who sees what. Not just dump everything into pictures.

     


    Monday, August 16, 2010 5:55 AM
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    But why, whenever you add a drive it allocates the new space equally to all the folders, video, music, backup, etc. How do I allocate more to say client backup instead of music?

     

    Michael

    Monday, November 29, 2010 8:35 PM
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    The free space is simply added to the storage pool. It is not allocated to any particular share. When you add an extra drive you do not allocate disk space to a share as such it. When more space is required in a share, it is allocated to the share from the available storage pool in 1 GB blocks.

    Make sure you look at the available storage from the dash board, not from explorer window on a remote desktop connection. As covered earlier in the thread, the free space show for each share in windows explorer is a view of the total free space available not the free space for each share.

    If you read through the earlier posts in this thread it is covered and explained reasonably well.

    Dave

    Monday, November 29, 2010 9:04 PM