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Very Slow / Not Working Large Upload - Anyone else? RRS feed

  • Question

  • I added a folder with about 3 gigs of music (403 files / 63 folders) to my mesh about 3 days ago - and so far it has only uploaded about 1.7 gigs of data to my Live Desktop ( i found this out by trying to delete it from my Live Desktop - and it said it was 1682 MB).  My computer has been on the whole time, with a constant upload rate of about 48 k/sec.  It is uploading from an XP SP2 machine.

    A weird thing that is happening is - for example - this morning when I left for work it said something like: "Uploading: 950 MB of 1.09 GB"  - when i got home from work it said "Uploading: 24 MB of 1.09 GB".  It has done this multiple times where it reduced the amount it has uploaded after long periods of uploading.

    I don't know if this would have affected this - but when I initially added the folder to my mesh - I also set it up so it was syncing to another device ( a Vista machine at work ).  I removed that Vista machine from that folder sync list after a day or so because I thought that might have been a reason it was taking so long - but it has had no effect on this situation.

    Anyone else encountering this?

    Should I file a bug report?

    Is this expected?
    • Changed type Nadia Fortini Friday, May 2, 2008 11:16 PM Answer provided
    Thursday, May 1, 2008 12:49 AM

Answers

  • What Kip said!  Thanks Kip :)

    We're quite aware of the poor user experience today and are working towards providing better sync feedback mechanisms.  Feel free to submit any suggestions to the Wish List!

    Thanks,
    Richard


    Richard Chung [MSFT]
    • Proposed as answer by ZeeJ Friday, July 18, 2008 7:13 AM
    • Marked as answer by DevDuckEditor Friday, July 18, 2008 5:52 PM
    Thursday, May 1, 2008 5:01 AM
    Answerer
  • Sorry for the delayed response.  I was going to quickly reply and say that there's no reliable way of determining how much has already been uploaded to the Live Desktop today, but I did some checking and it turns out that there is!  (Yes, even I discover new stuff about Mesh, and I work on it!)

    There's no way to get these numbers on the client, but you can get them on the Live Desktop.  It's a little obscure, but here's how:
        (1) Open up Live Desktop.
        (2) Hover over the Live Mesh icon on the bottom right to pull up the Notifier.
        (3) Click the folder icon at the bottom of the Notifier (icon #3)
        (4) Click the "Manage folders" link.
        (5) Click the Live Mesh Folder you're interested in.
    At the bottom, there should be two numbers: "Synchronized" and "Overall".  "Overall" is how much data the Live Folder contains; "Synchronized" is how much has been uploaded to the cloud.

    Scotis, if you see that there is no progress being made on "Synchronized", please file a bug in Connect and attach your client logs.  Once you've done that, feel free to restart the Live Mesh client, and it should make progress again.

    There is indeed a certain amount of overhead per file and per MB of data, but I don't have concrete numbers for you.  It's not great today, but it's definitely not as bad as 4:1 like in your example!

    I'm glad you're still excited about Mesh.  Feel free to voice your opinions and annoyances, it's one of the ways we can all make the product better!  :D

    Thanks,
    Richard
    Richard Chung [ Live Mesh ]
    Friday, May 2, 2008 1:17 AM
    Answerer

All replies

  • Scott,

    Yes I posted a similar question: http://forums.community.microsoft.com/en-US/thread/d14cbee8-863d-4aa0-8101-3767b492db59.  Here's what Richard Chung said:

    Mesh throttles its uploads so as to no overwhelm your connection.  Also, expected time to upload 830MB of data can vary depending on what else is going on in the system at the same time (be it on your machine or in the Mesh).  The 214MB number is slightly misleading as it only tells you how much this endpoint thinks it has to upload, capped at some number of files at any instant in time--so you may see it fluctuate over time.  There's no way to tell how far into an upload you're in today.  We're going to try to provide more useful information in the future, as well as allow users more control over the process.

    So the upload number is basically useless, almost random numbers when it comes to figuring out how far along you are.  If you are using the computer, then Live Mesh will throttle back, slowing things down (if I understand correctly), or if for example your Windows Home Server or a tune-up script fires off.

    My initial reaction is that this whole scenario needs work.  The idea that large files will only be available at some unforseen point in the future (but guaranteed a long way off), just isn't going to cut it.  Now files can travel across the internet only so fast, not much to be done there, but better reporting, even "are you sure you want to do this?" warnings are, I think, necessary.

    kip

    • Proposed as answer by Simon Mattes Sunday, November 30, 2008 1:24 PM
    Thursday, May 1, 2008 4:18 AM
  • What Kip said!  Thanks Kip :)

    We're quite aware of the poor user experience today and are working towards providing better sync feedback mechanisms.  Feel free to submit any suggestions to the Wish List!

    Thanks,
    Richard


    Richard Chung [MSFT]
    • Proposed as answer by ZeeJ Friday, July 18, 2008 7:13 AM
    • Marked as answer by DevDuckEditor Friday, July 18, 2008 5:52 PM
    Thursday, May 1, 2008 5:01 AM
    Answerer
  • Is there any reliable way of determining how much has already been uploaded to the Live Desktop?

    Since my initial post my client has gone from 'Uploading 25 MB of 1.09 GB' to 'Uploading 739 MB of 1.09 GB' - yet when I try to delete that same folder on my Live Desktop it says it is only 1682 MB - THIS HAS NOT CHANGED IN THE PAST 5 hours of constant uploading - is that expected?

    What has my computer been uploading the past 5 hours? (it has been at 48k / sec uploading the whole time - and yes i know that it is the only thing that is uploading stuff)

    Is there just a a lot of overhead when uploading data? (like when you have to upload 1 MB - it takes a total of 4 MB of data to be communicated)

    I just don't get what is going on that is all - its very hard to tell how much has already been uploaded to the cloud / Live Desktop.

    By the way - I think Live Mesh is awesome - can't wait to screw around with the SDK - sorry if I sound a little annoyed - I just know how cool this thing could be / is!
    Thursday, May 1, 2008 5:49 AM
  • Sorry for the delayed response.  I was going to quickly reply and say that there's no reliable way of determining how much has already been uploaded to the Live Desktop today, but I did some checking and it turns out that there is!  (Yes, even I discover new stuff about Mesh, and I work on it!)

    There's no way to get these numbers on the client, but you can get them on the Live Desktop.  It's a little obscure, but here's how:
        (1) Open up Live Desktop.
        (2) Hover over the Live Mesh icon on the bottom right to pull up the Notifier.
        (3) Click the folder icon at the bottom of the Notifier (icon #3)
        (4) Click the "Manage folders" link.
        (5) Click the Live Mesh Folder you're interested in.
    At the bottom, there should be two numbers: "Synchronized" and "Overall".  "Overall" is how much data the Live Folder contains; "Synchronized" is how much has been uploaded to the cloud.

    Scotis, if you see that there is no progress being made on "Synchronized", please file a bug in Connect and attach your client logs.  Once you've done that, feel free to restart the Live Mesh client, and it should make progress again.

    There is indeed a certain amount of overhead per file and per MB of data, but I don't have concrete numbers for you.  It's not great today, but it's definitely not as bad as 4:1 like in your example!

    I'm glad you're still excited about Mesh.  Feel free to voice your opinions and annoyances, it's one of the ways we can all make the product better!  :D

    Thanks,
    Richard
    Richard Chung [ Live Mesh ]
    Friday, May 2, 2008 1:17 AM
    Answerer
  • Richard,

    Couple of comments:

    1. I'm able to upload files of 6 and 12 megabytes, no problem, and checking the manage folders section of the navigator works well.
    2. However, it doesn't seem to be possible to upload large files, say 60 MB, despite being on a fairly fast connection (back haul is around 1 MB/s)...
    3. A cosmetic issue... I use "autohide" for the tool bar, so when on clicks to open the navigator widget, it dutifully expands out, for a few seconds, until the toolbar retracts, taking the widget with it! The work-around is one has to un "autohide" the toolbar, which is a slight pain :)

    Otherwise, this is great stuff. I like the direction this technology is going.

    Nick                
    Sunday, May 11, 2008 6:07 AM
  • Hi Nicholas,

    2.  How long did you wait?  It should *eventually* make its way to the cloud.

    3.  We've gotten feedback on the Live Notifier disappearing at inopportune times and are working to address that, though I'm not certain we've gotten feedback on this particular problem (with the toolbar autohiding).  Can you please open a bug in Connect to make sure we track this?

    Glad you like it!

    Thanks!
    Richard
    Richard Chung [ Live Mesh ]
    Monday, May 12, 2008 3:48 PM
    Answerer
  • Uploading seems to be more reliable now, and a lot faster. The main thing was to initiate the uploads from the client desktop, not from within the Live Desktop in the browser.

    The disappearing navigator is still a problem; I'll open up a bug report right now.

    Nick
    Friday, May 16, 2008 12:51 AM
  • Thanks for the response Richard (sorry for my long delay in responding).  All of the data eventually made it up there - so that's good.  I haven't tried uploading very much in the past couple weeks - but when I do I will be sure to use the method you describe to see how much has already been uploaded - thanks for that.

    Scott
    Wednesday, May 21, 2008 7:45 AM
  • Definitely experiencing the same slow upload speed.

    Also missing multiple files upload, or whole folder upload as well as drag and drop with a Windows feel to it (yes, I see it is coming as a feature, Thank you!! :-)
    Friday, July 18, 2008 7:12 AM
  • If you have the client installed and sync with a local folder, you have *full* drag and drop and multiple file handling, since the local folder is accessed via Windows Explorer.
    -steve
    Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare Forum Moderator
    Friday, July 18, 2008 1:36 PM
    Moderator
  • I've been experiencing problems with extremely slow syncs as well, but with the added complication of utilizing the new opeer-to-peer sync.

    I'm syncing my music library across two computers using Live Mesh.  The total folder size is about 25GB, obviously much too large for Live Desktop to hold.  First I manually copied the contents of the folder to both machines, figuring that 25GB would take too long to intially sync.  Then I set the folder to sync between the two computers, but not Live Desktop.  I tried deleting one song, which changed a few metadata files, each about 3MB, and of course deleted a music file.  The changes weren't reflected in the other computer at all, even though I waited hours for the sync to happen! 

    Thinking the syncing may have been broken, I tried adding a simple text file to the music folder (with a file size around 1KB) to see what would happen.  As usual, Live Mesh picked up on the addition, but only created a placeholder .wlx file on the other computer.  At this time I was still trying to sync the music files.  Is it possible the text file got stuck in a syncing queue behind the other files?  Or does Live Mesh figure out that there is a very small file that can be immediately synced, and sync that one first?

    In any case, the syncing is going extremely slowly, and possibly not even working.  I was under the impression that the peer-to-peer sync would, while not totally removing the middleman, at least reduce some overhead.  Is this not the case?


    Wednesday, August 13, 2008 3:12 PM
  • Hi gklitt,

    Unfortunately, we've been receiving a number of reports of folders that are set to sync P2P only not syncing at all.  We're still investigating this, and we're collecting logs from anyone who is willing to submit them in order to determine the cause(s).  If you wouldn't mind, please go ahead and submit a bug report with your logs attached.  Instructions for collecting logs and submitting a bug are in an Announcement at the top of the forums.

    Thanks,

    Ben.
    Wednesday, August 13, 2008 4:54 PM
  • My connection disagrees that any or enough throttling is taking place. Sure would be nice to have some options to set the throttling or max number of connections. When I try to upload my pictures folder (just as large as the music folder in this thread) all computers on the network lose their internet connection for a minute at a time over and over and over. My poor wireless router is simply overwhelmed. Then I just off Live Mesh and peace is restored.
    Thursday, August 14, 2008 2:37 AM
  • Thank you for the speedy reply.  I'll submit a bug report.
    I guess this sort of thing is expected when working with beta software...hope it gets fixed soon.  I'm anxious for perfect P2P syncing!
    Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:49 AM