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Help: NAS Used to work for Backups, Now Won't RRS feed

  • General discussion

  • Prior to the most recent upgrade, I would use my NAS for backup, now this doesn't work on my Vista machine (works on an XP machine). I contacted support, and got this message:

     

    "By design, OneCare cannot back up files to the Network Attached Storage. "

     

    What? This worked, I BOUGHT A NAS JUST FOR THIS PURPOSE, and now someone has just decided that this won't work? What do I do with my NAS?

     

    Say it isn't so, please tell me how to make this work. I dropped $200 on a NAS, and $40 on OneCare, and had everything working great, now my NAS is useless?

     

    Help please! I want to decide appropriate security, not have someone just change the rules because.

     

     

    Sunday, January 13, 2008 7:07 AM

All replies

  • Support gave you incorrect information. I would suggest calling back as the original response was simply not true.

    You need to make sure that the NAS contains a Share and that the rights to that Share are for all users to have full control of the files on that Share. You may also need to specify the IP address of the NAS in the path for the network Share - \\123.123.123.1\Share\ instead of the Share name \\Device\Share in OneCare settings.

     

    What happens when you try to configure backup to the NAS?

    -steve

    Sunday, January 13, 2008 8:44 PM
    Moderator
  • Had similar problem although in my case changed NAS device and "upgraded" to 2.0 at the same time.

     

    My issues seem to be related to credential setting. The new version of OneCare allows you to set up credentials for logging onto your NAS, this seemed to conflict with also having the NAS share visible within Explorer. Various errors all related to having multiple sessions between my Vista system(s) and the NAS. I took the simple approach which was to enable only one share on my NAS and setup user names and passwords that matched my various Vista account names meaning no need to enter credentials again. Lo and behold everything is now OK. Probably not the right approach but it works for me.

    Monday, January 14, 2008 9:07 AM
  • Luddite, thank you for a useful suggestion -- I'll indeed give this a try when I get home after work. Now if I could just remember my NAS password...

     

    Received another response from Support, they absolutely insist a NAS will not work (a little embedded Linux box from Maxtor, but apparently Windows Home Server will work, hmm), but a "harddrive hooked up to a router" will. Grrr.

     

    Monday, January 14, 2008 6:14 PM
  • Please do let us know how you make out. As I said, support is incorrect as an NAS is a supported destination for backup.

    -steve

     

    Monday, January 14, 2008 7:35 PM
    Moderator
  • I've relayed this conversation back to support -- they keep calling the NAS an external harddrive, so I'm not sure I'm really communicating to them.

     

    I have not had a chance to reset passwords on the NAS (lost them lol), but when I do I will try Luddite's suggestion.

    Wednesday, January 16, 2008 8:08 PM
  • Well, an NAS *is* external. :-)

    Sorry that the techs you've been communicating with don't seem to get this concept.

    -steve

     

    Thursday, January 17, 2008 1:28 PM
    Moderator
  • I am having the same problem with an XP machine (and the same problem with support).  I have configured user names and passwords on my Synology DS-106 to match my XP user names and passwords, per the above suggestion.  But I am still not able to set up, and support says a networked hard drive isn't supported.  It feels like the "network" referred to OneCare is the "network" that OneCare itself sets up; I am bothered by the thought that a network is something that doesn't include a router.  It feels misleading, at best.  I would rather fix the problem than stew; any other suggestions?

     

     

    Monday, March 3, 2008 4:01 AM
  • There are a variety of open threads on problems with using a NAS for a backup destination. As far as OneCare is concerned, a NAS is another computer - in effect the NAS contains a shared location, a network Share, for backups to go to and it is supported, despite the techs who are apparently confused by this concept.

    The Share on the NAS must be configured to allow *all* users full access, without regard to login. I assume that you are getting a permissions error from OneCare when trying to backup to the NAS, ScottES?

    -steve

     

    Monday, March 10, 2008 12:40 AM
    Moderator
  • Absolutely nothing works. Set permissions on share to public, to private, even changed LmCompatibilityLevel on Vista. Nothing works. $200 for a NAS, $40 for OneCare -- and I still can't back up.

     

    I would appreciate any suggestions. My OneCare subscription expires in a week, and I will cancel unless I can make this work. I am so frustrated.

    Monday, March 24, 2008 6:53 AM
  • I'm sorry that you are still unable to make this work with your NAS.

    I don't recall if you ever stated the specific make and model of the NAS. I scanned the prior posts and see Maxtor, but not a model.

    Can you tell me if you completely deleted the Share and recreated it, defined the permissions and then configured OneCare backup to point to it?

    In fact, does OneCare see the Share and allow you to configure it, but then backup fails later or can you not even configure the plan to use the Share?

    -steve

     

    Monday, March 24, 2008 1:32 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi, I appreciate any help. My NAS is "Maxtor Shared Storage II". I tried deleting and recreating the share. I marked it public, then also tried private with user names and passwords. I verified I could read and write files to the share. I tried using the IP address instead of the server's name. The Maxtor NAS is using some form of Linux, and is relatively recent (~ six months). OneCare backup used to work, now does not on my Vista machines (XP machines are unaffected and work fine). It allows me to configure to the share, but reports that it cannot be found when it tries to do a backup. I like OneCare's lack of bloat and that it appears to have neglible impact on my systems (all six of them at my home for my family), but this problem is driving me crazy.

     

    I should note that something in the major Dec 2007/Jan 2008 update, the one that reinstalled everything, is responsible. I should also note that I am a professional programmer with plenty of patience for problem solving, problem is after searching and trying a bunch of stuff nothing works, and OneCare support is quite certain NAS drives are not supported.

     

    Tuesday, March 25, 2008 2:44 AM
  • Yes, you are clearly quite patient and it sounds like you've tried the basic steps that we've discussed in these threads. I'm quite frustrated by this problem as it has been ongoing since the 2.0 release for many people. The fact that OneCare support is stating that NAS drives are not supported by OneCare leads me to suspect that they are using this statement as a fall-back since they can't get it working in many cases, either.

    The best that I can tell you is that I will keep pushing the Backup Program Manager to look at these threads and hope that a solution is forthcoming.

    In my personal experience, new this weekend, I set up a new primary desktop at home last week with Vista Ultimate. I found that I could not even access my Snap2 NAS (ancient unit - probably circa 2000 - updated with 2 120 gig drives a few years back) from the new Vista machine. I found the following information about how to make a change in Vista to change the way it authenticates to the NAS. Note that I was unable to connect to the NAS in Windows Explorer, which you are able to do, so this probably isn't your issue.

    1) Click Start

    2) Click Control Panel (not classic view)

    3) Click System & Maintenance

    4) Click Administrative Tools

    5) Double Click Local Security Policy

    6) On the left pane, click to expand Local Policies

    7) On the left pane, click on Security Options

    8) Now, on the right pane, near the bottom, click on

    Network Security LAN Manager Authentication Level

    9) On the drop down, change the default setting (NTLMv2 only) to

    Send LM & NTLM - use NTLMv2 session if negotiated.

     

    -steve

    Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:04 PM
    Moderator
  • This does not work. I can find the NAS in everything but OneCare before and after this, and the NAS is relatively recent and likely to incorporate newer authentication schemes. I do appreciate the suggestion however, and hope you may have another one.

    Wednesday, March 26, 2008 12:06 AM
  • I didn't think it would work - since your situation is different from what I faced this weekend.

     

    I hope we can get to the bottom of the NAS permissions problems...as I noted, there are *many* unanswered threads in this topic folder for the issue.

    -steve

     

    Wednesday, March 26, 2008 2:20 AM
    Moderator
  •  AkilahKt wrote:

    Prior to the most recent upgrade, I would use my NAS for backup, now this doesn't work on my Vista machine (works on an XP machine). I contacted support, and got this message:

     

    "By design, OneCare cannot back up files to the Network Attached Storage. "

     

    What? This worked, I BOUGHT A NAS JUST FOR THIS PURPOSE, and now someone has just decided that this won't work? What do I do with my NAS?

     

    Say it isn't so, please tell me how to make this work. I dropped $200 on a NAS, and $40 on OneCare, and had everything working great, now my NAS is useless?

     

    Help please! I want to decide appropriate security, not have someone just change the rules because.

     

     



    As a Beta Tester, everything was working perfectly untill recently....

    I've tried most things on this forums but cannot see what the problem is...what I get stuck with is I put the name of the server and share in and then states the backup name is unsupported please make sure you've entered your SMB Share name etc. etc. I know for a fact this is a SMB Server that I am connecting too and works through Windows Explorer but one care never picks it up.

    To summarise,

    1. I tried the IP address, mappings etc but they both say name unsupported.
    2. Tried adding the server in hosts file, this sort of let me give it the server name and share but then stated it couldnt find the centralized backup device. so stopped.
    3. trying to create a new share with different permissions, only made matters worse and gave backup name is unsupported so trying to re-add the original share name wouldnt accept it.

    I was just wondering, which NAS Devices does OneCare support?

    For a fact we are using a Freecom 500Gb NAS which also has a USB Port but it would probably work through USB but we would like to backup more than one PC.

    Windows XP is installed on one PC and Vista on the other both state that they cannot find the centralized backup device, so either put it down to the NAS itself or the router but if everything was working before hand why do we have problems now?

    I have also tried turning off UPNP on the router as someone suggested, also setting the OneCare Firewall (subnet) part to allow and checked that home or work was selected.

    Also what comes to mind, how can we check whioh ports the NAS Device uses and see if these are being blocked somehow to let the backup run?

    Also it looks to me as a permissions problem as when I map the drive to a letter it asks for a guest account but I type in the password and yes the share is mapped and can write/read to it.

    What you could try is, did you make sure your drive is set to a static IP address rather than a DHCP Address? It seemed to do something when I set that, but then got hit by the centralized backup device couldnt be found (losing sleepless nights with seeing that error message). =)

    A bit more info: There seems to be a problem when I click on Home and Work in the Firewall I get an error saying gtcc.exe caused a problem and closing Onecare (switching from Public Place to Home and Work)

    Also when I try and ask for OneCare Support it also bombs out with similar message, I then tried to reinstall OneCare but no joy.

    So is this a Firewall issue or Backup?


    Wednesday, March 26, 2008 7:10 PM
  • Simon, I will try your suggestions about Firewall etc (although I can browse to the NAS, so...) when I get home. I'm pretty sure I had the NAS IP static in the router.

     

    Silly comment, I know, but...

     

    ...isn't OneCare supposed to be a consumer-friendly product.

     

    Although I'm highly technical, I did by it so my wife could use it, and I liked the complete lack of bloat that Norton brought (and McAfee, at least on my testing, just took added to much time to operations like opening files, a real drag for gaming).

     

    Nonetheless I will try the ideas in this thread. My subscription ends soon, until then I'll try it until the bitter end I suppose.

    Wednesday, March 26, 2008 9:36 PM
  • Simon, I'll call it a backup issue.

    I don't know that there is a specific NAS model/brand/type issue and I'm sure that there is no list of what devices are okay with OneCare. In theory, as long as you have full rights to the NAS Share, you should be able to use it as a backup destination. You've read through the threads, so I won't offer new suggestions as I'd only be rehashing what was already suggested and quite possibly tried.

     

    I will continue to poke to get some better support on this issue, though! I'm not giving up.

     

    AkilahKT, "...isn't OneCare supposed to be a consumer-friendly product." - Yes, until you start trying to use technical solutions that the average user wouldn't consider. I would say that the basic user will use CD/DVD to backup. Someone may decide that they can pick up an external USB drive to do backups more easily and may venture into Centralized backup this way. I think that the percentage of users doing any kind of network backups is tiny compared to all users doing backups and NAS users comprise the smallest segment of backup users.

     

    -steve

     

    Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:42 AM
    Moderator
  •  Stephen Boots wrote:
    ...I think that the percentage of users doing any kind of network backups is tiny compared to all users doing backups and NAS users comprise the smallest segment of backup users...

     

    I promise not to comment more on this (as I do appreciate the help and the not-give-up attitude), except for this one comment as a software professional who writes software that sells to (millions of) end consumers: the tech savvy are often the ones who guide the far less savvy to product purchases; in my case this would be my immediate family, my siblings and my wife's siblings, as well as the odd person looking confused in Fry's or Best Buy (and yes I did steer them to OneCare). If a feature is supported, it should work and always work. The troublesome thing about this is that it *did* work, and now does not -- leading to the obvious tech consumer question: what will break with the next update break? And since its purpose is security, what else was missed in testing?

     

    Also I would point out that "personal media servers" are becoming increasingly more common also, and their use as a backup device is obvious. And then there is also the mindshare issue, where people believe OneCare is "incompatible" with many devices, or even a Slashdot bandwagon story about how Vista won't play nice with Linux devices. A Best Buy sales person reads that, and decides to guide customers elsewhere, even though they don't fairly understand the issue.

     

    Anyway I promise not to bring this up, and this is not intended as a flame (although there is some frustration expressed in this). This is actually the flavor of issue I've had to deal with in minimizing concerns about "marginally used" features in software products. Funny thing for me is that OneCare is almost perfect, in the sense it does what it should and no more, with the minimal and straightforward interface to do that. On the whole, it is leaps and bounds in my opinion ahead of Norton, which was good many years ago but became a monster when I decided to dump it (in 2006), and have zero confidence my wife could explain or use more than 10% of the interface. I really want OneCare to work, hunting for new products that I can have confidence in is hard.

    Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:49 AM
  • I don't take your reply as negative or a flame at all. I *completely* agree with you that this issue with backup and NAS devices is unacceptable. I was only pointing out that backup works for the average user. I know that the use of servers is increasing and that if this problem is not addressed by the OneCare backup team (perhaps with help from the firewall team) it will become an issue for many more people moving forward.

    Your points are all valid. I, too, want to find a consistent solution to this problem. I've already told my OneCare team contacts that this forum topic folder is my current albatross in that we aren't solving the NAS problem - along with other odd backup issues that are hard to deal with...

    -steve

     

    Thursday, March 27, 2008 3:12 PM
    Moderator
  • Is this really a Onecare issue? The reason I ask is that I had this exact problem with a Maxtor Shared Storage II drive. But istead of attempting backups I created a folder in a Public Share, but when giving it a new name, I get the message:

     

    'The folder does not exist. The file may have been moved or deleted. Do you want to create it?'

     

    Clicking 'Yes' brings the message up again, clicking 'No' leaves the folder named as 'New Folder'.

     

    Now I thought that this may have been something to do with Onecare or the firewall, so I re-installed my Vista Ultimate x64 system from scratch, prior to reinstalling Onecare I connected to my NAS and tried to rename the 'New Folder' with a different name and I get the same problem.

     

    I have modifeid the security settings as per a prior post but have had no luck what-so-ever. I have installed Windows XP on a 'Virtual PC' on the Vista Ultimate machine and I can report that I can rename the folder from within this Virtual PC.

     

    Just to put the issue into more perspective I have 2 other machines at home that connect to the NAS, one has XP Professional & Vista Home Premium loaded on it (32bit) and XP connects okay to the NAS and can rename files & folders. Vista connects okay ie you can read files but cannot change names at all.... same message as above. The final machine I have is an older one with Windows 2000 running, again this machine can connect, read & rename files & folders on the Maxtor NAS.

     

    If someone knows what is wrong here and how to fix it in Vista I would be greatly appreciative, Frankly I feel like the NAS I've bought is a dud. I want to move to the permanently to Vista but keep having to step back in time to use the hardware sucessfully.

     

    Gareth 

     

     

    Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:08 PM
  •  Gareth Jones wrote:
    Is this really a Onecare issue? The reason I ask is that I had this exact problem with a Maxtor Shared Storage II drive.

     

    I have no problem with the Maxtor NAS otherwise. Occasionally the name does not appear on the server, and I reboot the NAS -- but to get around this I simply create a folder shortcut to the share on the NAS. But in any case, I never have a problem accessing the NAS under Vista -- in fact my workaround for now is to use the Microsoft SyncToy to simply copy my essential files there, and it works find (although manual, not part of tune-up, and not part of the OneCare I originally bought). I must also point out that the Maxtor NAS worked fine also with OneCare up until the "big upgrade" at the end of last year.

     

    BTW I've decided to renew my subscription for one more year for OneCare for the simple reason it is simple. But I'm still not happy about this. I've even re-installed Vista to see if that works, no luck. No luck from my secondary Vista machine or my wife's Vista machine. If this is still a problem next subscription season and I can find an alternative to OneCare that is not bloated or complicated, I will switch then. Meanwhile I'll just endure manual backups. OneCare would be perfect because it is only as complex as it needs to be and no more -- but why is it so problematic with NAS?

    Thursday, April 17, 2008 5:01 PM
  • I wish I knew why OneCare and NAS devices are so problematic. I'll be discussing this very issue with the OneCare team tomorrow to reiterate this as a pain point for so many in the forums.

    -steve

     

    Friday, April 18, 2008 5:11 AM
    Moderator
  •  Stephen Boots wrote:

    I wish I knew why OneCare and NAS devices are so problematic. I'll be discussing this very issue with the OneCare team tomorrow to reiterate this as a pain point for so many in the forums.

    -steve

     

    I do very much appreciate the persistence in this, part of the reason I extended my subscription. It is worth mentioning to them that it *did* work before (in my case) then *stopped* working as a result of the big change made a number of months ago -- auditing the code involving network at the time of that change might yield clues.

    Friday, April 18, 2008 7:01 PM
  • Just thought I would weigh in and say I am having exactly the same problems. I have Asus WL700ge as a mapped drive and have been unable to backup to it.

    I seem to have fixed it though. Although I'm not entirely sure how.

    I was simultaneously having a problem with my windows update. Which I fixed I beleive by putting the sites onto my trusted sites in IE.

    This seem to fix the Backup problem? Although I did a bunch of other stuff too so it may not be. So if this isn't useful let me know and I can think more about what I might have done.

    Cheers

    nathan

    Saturday, April 19, 2008 6:50 AM