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Western Digital 80GB Caviar HD and WHS conflict RRS feed

  • Question

  • I just installed a WDC WD800BB-75FRA0 (80GB Caviar) drive in my photo scanning station.  The computer is a Dell XPS T500 with a 1.4 PowerLeap upgrade and 512 MB of ram.  XP3 is running on Dell 500.

    Backups worked perfectly every night on the Dell 500 prior to the WD HD.  However, now that the WD drive is installed, WHS has stopped making backups.

    Order of events:

    1)     Added the WD as a second drive.  Received the WHS add HD warning message and added the new drive to the backup configuration.  WHS and Dell 500 seemed happy – no issues.  However, that night WHS did not backup any of the Dell 500’s HDs: original IBM-DJNA-352500 (25GB) or WD 80GB.  Hmm.

    2)     Ran a separate backup of 25GB HD using Aconis True Image – just in case<g>.

    3)     Thinking that some old software or data on the WD was causing a problem, I cloned the 25GB to 80GB HD.  Everything worked perfectly.  XP3 really zipped on 7200 rpm Caviar!  No OS or performance issues.  Formatted the 25GB to eliminate original OS.  However backups still did not work.

    4)     I tried a manual backup as an experiment and got a surprise!  After about 1 minute of WHS trying to backup - the Dell 500, went black for a couple seconds, shut down and rebooted!  No blue screen that I could see. Everything came back fine and OS is still worked perfectly from the cloned 80 GB drive.

    5)     Reinstalled WHS Connector on Dell 500 – no change.  Still no backups.

    6)   BTW - I have left my scanning software running overnight and found the Dell 500 running in the morning without the scanning software operating.  I suspect the Dell 500 is rebooting at night when WHS tries a backup.

     

    What is causing the conflict between WHS and the WD 80GB HD?  It appears to be something very fundamental or very basic to cause the reboot.

    Are some HDs just not compatible with WHS?

     

    Items of interest:

    WHS is a homebuilt w/ 1TB of storage (2-500GB EIDE) on a Dell 330 w/ 512MB ram

    WHS and the Dell 500 are running flawlessly

    WHS is backing up another computer just fine – but not the Dell 500.

    No problem accessing WHS from Dell 500.

    Both Dell 500 drives are NTFS and have been defragged.

    Dell 500 has latest BIOS (A11 Phoenix 4.0 release 6.0 dated 10/2000) and all drivers from Dell.

    Both HDs are shown in the Dell 500’s BIOS and msconfig32 at the correct size.

    I’ve checked for updated firmware on WD site, but nothing is available.

    I asked WD for updated firmware, but haven’t heard back from them yet.

     

    Any thoughts?

     

    Thanks, MnM3

    Tuesday, December 30, 2008 4:55 AM

Answers

  • Wahoo!!!  Trumpets blaring!!!  Fireworks!!!  High fives all around!!

    100% solved!!!  Acronis' corruption of the system volumes was the problem.  The XP machine backed up all by itself at 12:39am.

    Brad  - You get the gold star!!    Thank you VERY much!! 
    Lara, thanks to you as well for taking time to answer my questions.

    All is well in the northern tundra.  I learned something with this challenge.
    Wow.

    Thank you all very much,
    Mark

    BTW - Did I mention the problem was fixed?<g>

    • Marked as answer by MnM3 Tuesday, January 6, 2009 2:30 AM
    Tuesday, January 6, 2009 2:30 AM

All replies

  • MnM3 said:

    I just installed a WDC WD800BB-75FRA0 (80GB Caviar) drive in my photo scanning station.  The computer is a Dell XPS T500 with a 1.4 PowerLeap upgrade and 512 MB of ram.  XP3 is running on Dell 500.

    Backups worked perfectly every night on the Dell 500 prior to the WD HD.  However, now that the WD drive is installed, WHS has stopped making backups.

    Order of events:

    1)     Added the WD as a second drive.  Received the WHS add HD warning message and added the new drive to the backup configuration.  WHS and Dell 500 seemed happy – no issues.  However, that night WHS did not backup any of the Dell 500’s HDs: original IBM-DJNA-352500 (25GB) or WD 80GB.  Hmm.

    2)     Ran a separate backup of 25GB HD using Aconis True Image – just in case<g>.

    3)     Thinking that some old software or data on the WD was causing a problem, I cloned the 25GB to 80GB HD.  Everything worked perfectly.  XP3 really zipped on 7200 rpm Caviar!  No OS or performance issues.  Formatted the 25GB to eliminate original OS.  However backups still did not work.

    4)     I tried a manual backup as an experiment and got a surprise!  After about 1 minute of WHS trying to backup - the Dell 500, went black for a couple seconds, shut down and rebooted!  No blue screen that I could see. Everything came back fine and OS is still worked perfectly from the cloned 80 GB drive.

    5)     Reinstalled WHS Connector on Dell 500 – no change.  Still no backups.

    6)   BTW - I have left my scanning software running overnight and found the Dell 500 running in the morning without the scanning software operating.  I suspect the Dell 500 is rebooting at night when WHS tries a backup.

     

    What is causing the conflict between WHS and the WD 80GB HD?  It appears to be something very fundamental or very basic to cause the reboot.

    Are some HDs just not compatible with WHS?

     

    Items of interest:

    WHS is a homebuilt w/ 1TB of storage (2-500GB EIDE) on a Dell 330 w/ 512MB ram

    WHS and the Dell 500 are running flawlessly

    WHS is backing up another computer just fine – but not the Dell 500.

    No problem accessing WHS from Dell 500.

    Both Dell 500 drives are NTFS and have been defragged.

    Dell 500 has latest BIOS (A11 Phoenix 4.0 release 6.0 dated 10/2000) and all drivers from Dell.

    Both HDs are shown in the Dell 500’s BIOS and msconfig32 at the correct size.

    I’ve checked for updated firmware on WD site, but nothing is available.

    I asked WD for updated firmware, but haven’t heard back from them yet.

     

    Any thoughts?

     

    Thanks, MnM3



    Have you checked the system event logs? Also, just to verify that the system did not bugcheck, look for a MEMORY.DMP file in c:\Windows around the time that the system rebooted.

    If you want to check the backup logs, they can be found here:

    XP machine:
    %SystemDrive%\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows Home Server\logs

    Server logs:         
    %SystemDrive%\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows Home Server\logs



    Thanks

    Lara Jones [MSFT] Windows Home Server Team
    Tuesday, December 30, 2008 5:55 PM
    Moderator
  • Thanks Lara,

    System Event logs not checked.  What are those?

    No MEMORY.DMP in C:\Windows


    Backup Logs on XP machine:
    First bad backup:
    (C drive is the original 25GB IBM, F drive is the 80GB Western Digital)

    Created at 12/19/2008 12:46:26 AM
    ***** Started at 12/19/2008 12:46:26 AM ***
    ***** Started at 12/19/2008 12:46:26 AM ***
    [1]081219.004626.5939: Status: Start
    [1]081219.004627.1547: Status: Connect to server SERVER, session 27c05cab-a71f-4ff8-b912-c874be9b0d25, protocol 20
    [1]081219.004628.0560: Status: Volume a2f43441-be17-11db-a939-806d6172696f = C:
    [1]081219.004628.0661: Status: Volume a6dfae70-ccc4-11dd-8670-806d6172696f = F:
    [1]081219.004642.3466: Status: Acquire volume shadows


    Deselected 25GB from backup configuation prior to manual backup below to isolate WD.

    Manual Backup reboot:
    Created at 12/27/2008 4:11:47 PM
    ***** Started at 12/27/2008 4:11:47 PM ***
    ***** Started at 12/27/2008 4:11:47 PM ***
    [1]081227.161147.0841: Status: Start
    [1]081227.161147.5448: Status: Connect to server SERVER, session 851cb361-e702-4d4e-9375-c62adf094b51, protocol 20
    [1]081227.161148.1657: Status: Volume a2f43441-be17-11db-a939-806d6172696f = C:
    [1]081227.161203.7681: Status: Acquire volume shadows

    Last backup attempt (I turned off Dell 500 yesterday)
    Created at 12/29/2008 1:35:21 AM
    ***** Started at 12/29/2008 1:35:21 AM ***
    ***** Started at 12/29/2008 1:35:21 AM ***
    [1]081229.013521.1784: Status: Start
    [1]081229.013521.5789: Status: Connect to server SERVER, session c4560689-ff8b-4a1f-9082-a70e3c20efc2, protocol 20
    [1]081229.013522.5804: Status: Volume a2f43441-be17-11db-a939-806d6172696f = C:
    [1]081229.013535.1384: Status: Acquire volume shadows


    BTW - Western Digital did not have any updated firmware.  They directed me to MS support.  

    Dear Mark,
    Thank you for contacting Western Digital Customer Service and Support.

    We apologize for the inconvenience you're experiencing. Based on the information provided we do not have any available updates at this time. Please contact Microsoft for further information at
    http://support.microsoft.com/

    Sincerely,
    Mario H.
    Western Digital Service and Support
    http://support.wdc.com/

    I'll stay here and see if we can solve the problem before contacting with MS Support.

    Mark

    Tuesday, December 30, 2008 11:59 PM
  • MnM3 said:

    Thanks Lara,

    System Event logs not checked.  What are those?



    On your XP machine go:
    Start>run>My Computer>right click>select Properties>Manage

    Once Computer Management loads, expand the Event Viewer logs and check the system event logs.

    If I have these steps slightly wrong, forgive me, it's been years since I've run XP and the OS I'm running now is slightly different.

    Thanks!

    Lara Jones [MSFT] Windows Home Server Team
    Wednesday, December 31, 2008 8:33 PM
    Moderator
  • Lara,

    You have a good memory.  Directions were spot on.
    Interesting stuff in the System Event Logs.  I've never dug into that part of my computer.

    Here are the Save Dumps (with Bugchecks) that happened right around the events listed above.  I also got an error log prior to the Save Dump during the manual reboot.

    19 DEC 08
    Event Type: Information
    Event Source: Save Dump
    Event Category: None
    Event ID: 1001
    Date:  12/19/2008
    Time:  12:48:01 AM
    User:  N/A
    Computer: DELL500
    Description:
    The computer has rebooted from a bugcheck.  The bugcheck was: 0x00000019 (0x00000020, 0xe2e40f80, 0xe2e40fa0, 0x0c040403). A dump was saved in: C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\Mini121908-01.dmp.

    27 DEC 08
    Event Type: Error
    Event Source: BROWSER
    Event Category: None
    Event ID: 8032
    Date:  12/27/2008
    Time:  4:10:26 PM
    User:  N/A
    Computer: DELL500
    Description:
    The browser service has failed to retrieve the backup list too many times on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{CF759D03-F891-4ED6-BD2A-5E97826350A6}. The backup browser is stopping.
    For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
                
    Event Type: Information
    Event Source: Save Dump
    Event Category: None
    Event ID: 1001
    Date:  12/27/2008
    Time:  4:13:26 PM
    User:  N/A
    Computer: DELL500
    Description:
    The computer has rebooted from a bugcheck.  The bugcheck was: 0x00000019 (0x00000020, 0xe2a62038, 0xe2a62058, 0x0c040401). A dump was saved in: C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\Mini122708-02.dmp.
    For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.

    29 DEC 08
    Event Type: Information
    Event Source: Save Dump
    Event Category: None
    Event ID: 1001
    Date:  12/29/2008
    Time:  1:36:50 AM
    User:  N/A
    Computer: DELL500
    Description:
    The computer has rebooted from a bugcheck.  The bugcheck was: 0x00000019 (0x00000020, 0xe2b654c0, 0xe2b654e0, 0x0c040202). A dump was saved in: C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\Mini122908-01.dmp.
    For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.


    BTW - The Save Dump files indicate a dump was saved in the Minidump folder.  However nothing is in that folder???   Zippo, nada, nothing. 
    Does that folder clear when the computer shuts down or is the Ccleaner software purging it when it runs?

    Thanks,
    Mark

    Sunday, January 4, 2009 2:48 AM
  • I think Acronis is your culprit. I had an issue last year whereby I cloned my existing drive to two new drives (in RAID 0). Shortly thereafter, I started getting error messages from WHS that my backups weren't completing. To make matters worse, my backups were also crapping out using another Backup package (Genie). I Googled around and found a lot of others who had the same problem (I'll try and find the link somewhere). If I recall, it took some registry hacking to get things back in order. It's an issue that Acronis is aware of, but I don't think they've provided a fix yet.

    EDIT:

    Unfortunately I don't have the links to the solution anymore. I saved them in my Favorites on a laptop which I susbequently overwrote all my Favorites on. I should have saved that link because I do use Acronis a lot and I'll probably stumbled across this issue at some other point.

    I'd Google around a bit trying to find a connection between Acronis and failed backups. I searched for days for a solution and not until I made the connection between a cloned drive and backup failures did I find a solution. I believe it causes problems with Volume Shadow Copy service, or something like that. Sorry I can't be more specific. It was about a year ago that I solved this one and it was a real pain to solve!

    EDIT 2:

    This link could very well be related to the solution (there are a lot of similar issues related to Acronis out there)

    http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic94820-4.html

    I'm about 80% sure this is what may have solved my issue (I had these details saved on a text file on the laptop I used to solve the problem). If this doesn't work, the solution below shouldn't be destructive as it's just uninstalling a device which will reinstall when Windows reboots on your old Dell.


    1. Go to windows Device Manager
    2. Click "view" and select "show hidden devices"
    3. Scroll down to "storage volumes"
    4. Click on the plus to expand.
    5. Click on each one listed and right click and uninstall. (you will get a message on some staying to reboot before it takes effect. Select no until you do them all.)
    6. Reboot.
    7. Wait till windows automatically reinstalls devices. Will prompt to reboot again.
    8 Reboot.

    Sunday, January 4, 2009 5:02 AM
  • Cellymann,

    You may be on to something.

    EDIT
    <<Turns out I installed Acronis two days before I installed the Western Digital HD.  I intended to use Acronis for cloning the HD.

    In reviewing the System Logs immediately after the Acronis install - at exactly 2 min and 12 seconds after the install, errors start popping up.  The errors consist of a set of three items; one warning and two errors.  They pop up regulaly every 30 minutes to 2 hours on continuous basis.>>  See below:

    WARNING
    Event Type: Warning
    Event Source: ccEvtMgr
    Event Category: None
    Event ID: 13
    Date:  12/17/2008
    Time:  9:35:39 PM
    User:  NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM
    Computer: DELL500
    Description:
    The description for Event ID ( 13 ) in Source ( ccEvtMgr ) cannot be found. The local computer may not have the necessary registry information or message DLL files to display messages from a remote computer. You may be able to use the /AUXSOURCE= flag to retrieve this description; see Help and Support for details. The following information is part of the event: ccEvtMgr: Loaded the default configuration settings..

    ERROR 1
    Event Type: Error
    Event Source: ccEvtMgr
    Event Category: None
    Event ID: 13
    Date:  12/17/2008
    Time:  10:10:12 PM
    User:  NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM
    Computer: DELL500
    Description:
    The description for Event ID ( 13 ) in Source ( ccEvtMgr ) cannot be found. The local computer may not have the necessary registry information or message DLL files to display messages from a remote computer. You may be able to use the /AUXSOURCE= flag to retrieve this description; see Help and Support for details. The following information is part of the event: ccEvtMgr: Failed to load the configuration settings.. 

    ERROR 2
    Event Type: Error
    Event Source: ccEvtMgr
    Event Category: None
    Event ID: 13
    Date:  12/17/2008
    Time:  10:10:12 PM
    User:  NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM
    Computer: DELL500
    Description:
    The description for Event ID ( 13 ) in Source ( ccEvtMgr ) cannot be found. The local computer may not have the necessary registry information or message DLL files to display messages from a remote computer. You may be able to use the /AUXSOURCE= flag to retrieve this description; see Help and Support for details. The following information is part of the event: ccEvtMgr: Settings server is not installed..

    BTW - Acronis was uninstalled right after the backup on 25 DEC.  It seems like it left behind some fuzz that is still causing problems.

    However one thing doesn't quite jive with your suggestion.  The cloning aspect.  My backups failed the instant I installed the Western Digital drive on 19 DEC - not after cloning. 

    EDIT
    <<I assume this means that Acronis is the prime suspect (as you indicate) and not the cloning process itself.>>

    Will your suggestions still work? 
    I especially like the last suggestion of simply letting XP reinstall the drives. 

    I think we're getting close!
    Mark

    Sunday, January 4, 2009 5:46 PM
  •  

     I can't say for sure if the solution would work or not, but it can't hurt to try. All that solution does in "uninstall" something that will reinstall after you reboot. That seems to fix a multitude of problems.

     The reason I think it might be related is something I noticed in your log dump on 12/30/08 (cut and paste):

    081219.004642.3466: Status: Acquire volume shadows


    [1]081227.161203.7681: Status: Acquire volume shadows


    [1]081229.013535.1384: Status: Acquire volume shadows


    The issue you seem to be having related to corruption in the "Volume Shadow Copy" service which caused my problems (and it's operation is critical for any backup operation). If you read that thread (and others), there seems to be a whole pile of symptoms related to this corruption. In my case, I got the BSOD whenever I tried a backup. Your situation doesn't seem as extreme. I agree that you noticed the problems started before Acronis entered the equation, but it might be a similar issue.

    As above, it can't hurt to try the uninstall volume method. It just might solve your problem. I'm no tech expert, but in my experience when you hit dead ends, it's worth trying anything to solve your problems. of course, you could rebuild your machine(s) which might have to happen anyhow.

    Good Luck!

    Brad

    Sunday, January 4, 2009 10:44 PM
  •  Brad,

    Thanks. 

    I uninstalled the Storage Volumes as suggested.  Everything went fine and the XP machine is back up and running.  Now I'll wait until WHS tries a backup tonight to see if that fixes the problem.
    Let's cross the fingers!!

    One little clarification to the steps:

    1. Go to windows Device Manager
    2. Click "view" and select "show hidden devices"
    3. Scroll down to "storage volumes"
    4. Click on the plus to expand.
    5. Click on each one listed and right click and uninstall. (you will get a message on some indicating to reboot before it takes effect. Select no until you do them all.) 
    6. At the last drive select the option to reboot*.
    7. Wait till windows automatically reinstalls devices. Will prompt to reboot again.
    8 Reboot.

    *At the last drive it wouldn't clear when selecting "no".  I tried five times.  On the sixth try I selected "reboot" and the computer rebooted.

    BTW - I wasn't real clear in my explanation of when things started to go astray due to my limited knowledge of the deep workings of my XP machine.  Actually the problems appear to have started (literally) two minutes after the Acronis install.   This was highlighted in the Application Event Log errors.

    You get a gold star if this works<g>!!

    Mark
    Monday, January 5, 2009 2:59 AM
  •  Good luck!

    One way to test now is to run a manual backup.

    Fingers crossed for you.
    Monday, January 5, 2009 5:24 AM
  • Wahoo!!!  Trumpets blaring!!!  Fireworks!!!  High fives all around!!

    100% solved!!!  Acronis' corruption of the system volumes was the problem.  The XP machine backed up all by itself at 12:39am.

    Brad  - You get the gold star!!    Thank you VERY much!! 
    Lara, thanks to you as well for taking time to answer my questions.

    All is well in the northern tundra.  I learned something with this challenge.
    Wow.

    Thank you all very much,
    Mark

    BTW - Did I mention the problem was fixed?<g>

    • Marked as answer by MnM3 Tuesday, January 6, 2009 2:30 AM
    Tuesday, January 6, 2009 2:30 AM
  • Glad to be of service. I've got this "solution" well bookmarked now.
    Tuesday, January 6, 2009 2:04 PM