none
do this microsoft certifications provide an edge for getting a job? RRS feed

  • Question

  • Iam doing my final year B.E in Electronics and communication.I just want to know about the course MCSE,will it be helpful for me to get a job as a fresher?

    I have not learned about database or about servers in my graduation,As its a different field all together will it be tough?

    can you provide other relevant microsoft courses? i know C but not totally, I would like to know about program developers and the relavent course?

     

    Thursday, December 22, 2011 3:27 PM

Answers

  • The short anser to your question is....maybe.  Certificates are most definitely a benefit, but also having real world experience is needed.

    That said, the MCSE (covering Server 2003 and WinXP)  is based on technology that's 8+ years old.  Many companies are starting to migrate to Server 2008/Win7.  Ergo - being certified in the most current technology is the best way to go.  The best recommendation would be to look at the MCITP Server 2008 Enterprise Administrator certification exams if you're interested in pursuing that line.

    As to "other relevant microsoft courses", Microsoft offers quite a number of certification paths.  The best thing to do is to look thru the Microsoft Learning site and review the various certification paths available.

    Thursday, December 22, 2011 4:17 PM
    Answerer
  • I agree with Charles in the ...maybe.

    You have to set a career path for the next 30 years. As Microsoft said: Where do you want to go today?. From your BA/BS/BE you can go to a Master or PHD, or get some real world experience, or do any of them joined or alone. Certifications only gives the assurance that know something about something. And, definitely, experience counts. In the other hand, the world keeps turning and the technology evolving and changing. You can't keep yourself still with a BA/BS/BE alone anymore. You need to tell to your employers that you are a updated or current professional. The more you study, the more value you bring to a job. Sometimes too much.

    Finding a job fresh out of school requires the effort to consider the job search as a job itself.

    There are many certifications on many areas, some technical, some other in management. As DBs there are MS SQL, Oracle, DB2, Pervasive, and many others, but your career course will tell if you want to go for one or for all of them.

    As Charles put, we are working with technology that has been evolving long ago, from PC technology. I could recommend you to look in COMPTIA for basic certifications, like A+, Server+, Network+ for basics. Think about project abilities as well.

    Please look here for some guidance: http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/cert-overview.aspx

    Alfredo Arizaleta, PMP, MCT, MCITP, MCSA, MCSE, A+, NETWORK+, ITIL v2

     


    Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no express or implied warranties or rights.
    Thursday, December 22, 2011 8:33 PM
  • Iam doing my final year B.E in Electronics and communication.I just want to know about the course MCSE,will it be helpful for me to get a job as a fresher?

    I have not learned about database or about servers in my graduation,As its a different field all together will it be tough?

    can you provide other relevant microsoft courses? i know C but not totally, I would like to know about program developers and the relavent course?

    As you have discovered, technology and engineering are two completely different fields.  Technology, at most, tops out at a Master's level of education.  Engineering extends to a doctorate level, and even the Anglo-American approach to engineering compressed the original, post-graduate field of engineering into a compressed Bachelor's program back in the 17th century (largely to increase the internship for licensure from 2 to 4 years, as it requires more internship than law or medicine).

    I have a traditionally EE myself, and moved into a software engineering role doing embedded development (first assembly, then VxWorks, then embedded Linux).  But I eventually "fell back" on technology and IT, because it was more stable.  Like yourself, I didn't get any IT in college.  We studied applied physics and microeconomics, learning to build systems of equations to explain systems -- whether they be physical, electromagnetic or microeconomic.  That's not practical for technology.

    As I often say, you need 1 engineer for every 10 technologists for every 100 technicians.

    A technician doesn't need to know the first thing about semiconductor lattices to design a networking ASIC, because he's just installing the equipment.  And while a technologist may design a network's layout, and even be able to read the engineering specifications, his time would be much better spent, and more practical to his employer, learning products than trying to design them.  And then there's the obvious "science" limitation, as using calculus for everything you do is a tall order for someone not formally educated and able to do RF design (yes, the world is still very much analog in computers, even if you don't see it ;).  At the same time, you still need technologists telling engineers what they are doing wrong, as they are in the field, and engineers are often not.

    Here in the US, we're done for in engineering.  We've graduated so few that we've lost our edge.  Being an engineer, I've see this first-hand.  It's why I've also rolled over into IT, as poor as that might be for the future of the US, it's the reality of the market.

    I had zero (0) certifications in 2002, and was "under-employed" for five (5) months that year.  The way out was to acquire IT certifications, as HR/procurement departments were big on them.

    Understand I had done IT since I was a teenager (very late '80s), was a hostmaster (InterNIC DNS maintainer), heavy UseNet user for five (5) years before the Web hit, etc...  I had experience with OS/2, SCO, SunOS and VMS.  I got into NT early on because I was at the largest installed based of the first native NT app, an engineering firm I interned with in college for three (3) years.  And as a software engineer, I was often the "IT tech" as well, as our IT department knew Windows 95 and that's about it.  In fact, I implemented NT 3.1, 3.50, 3.51 and 4.0 (and never had to support any DOS-based Windows like 95/98 in my entire, professional career).

    And GNU platforms were a given after NASA proved with Sojourner ("Mars Pathfinder") that GNU platforms running commodity cores (68K, PPC, ARM, etc...) were the future by the mid-'90s.  So being that Linux was a native GNU development platform, I was soon leveraging Linux for more than just web and basic print and file (NFS/Samba) infrastructure.  Once embedded Linux took over anything mission critical from VxWorks by the 21st century, that path was set.  You had Linux in everything, embedded, infrastructure, core Internet capabilities, literally replacing Sun as "the dot."  So I had to learn LDAP and Kerberos internals, how AD-LDAP differed from IETF-LDAP, MS-Kerberos from MIT-Kerberos, and all of the legacy and security services.  Many enterprises had already adopted Netscape iPlanet DS/Certificate (now Red Hat DS and related stacks), and were looking to integrate new AD into their existing LDAP infrastructure.

    So getting back to my point ...

    That all meant absolute jack when it came to pitching myself for IT projects.

    So I went out and took almost forty (40) IT exams.  Best thing I ever did, even if the exam-only costs ran up over $5K.  I never had any hurt for work after that.  The certs got me past the head hunters and HR/procurement departments, and my experience did the rest.

    So what's this mean for you?  Don't know.

    You definitely need practical IT and technology experience with certifications.  While I understand many employers, HR/procurement, etc... departments want a degreed engineer or CS major, but I'm also the first one that will say it means jack.  One doesn't need a degree to do IT or technology, let alone I don't subscribe to the "learnable" argument of people with a degree (and, again, I say this as someone with an EE).  Certifications get you in the door, but experience and implementation sells you.

    I made $6/hour while I was in college, and did that for three (3) years.  Understood I grew up in a civil engineering household, and was doing trigonometry at age 9.  But that all mattered jack, as I did not have any experience.  What I did from age 18-21 did everything for my IT knowledge.  It allowed me to return to it when the aerospace industry was not looking so bright by 2001.  So all I can suggest is taking an entry-level or even intern position if you want to get into IT, if you really want to, because you'll need that in addition to your certifications.

    Or maybe you should stay in the EE/RF field, and build your career there.  Right now the hottest career, even in the US, is RF.  There is still a lot of wireless infrastructure no matter where you go, and people who can do the DiffQ and transforms for communication and EM Fields in their heads are making the money.  Because wireless is everywhere, and technologists (much less technicians) do not have the background to understand -- let alone describe -- the complex interaction of systems of that real old skool voodoo that is basically, at the core, "analog" ("generation D" my butt).

    I know for myself, I am kinda kicking myself for not going that route, instead of the software route.  So maybe you should consider it, especially if you were an A/B student in engineering.


    • Edited by TheBS Monday, December 26, 2011 5:17 PM
    • Marked as answer by Mr. WhartyModerator Thursday, February 2, 2012 7:00 AM
    Monday, December 26, 2011 5:12 PM

All replies

  • The short anser to your question is....maybe.  Certificates are most definitely a benefit, but also having real world experience is needed.

    That said, the MCSE (covering Server 2003 and WinXP)  is based on technology that's 8+ years old.  Many companies are starting to migrate to Server 2008/Win7.  Ergo - being certified in the most current technology is the best way to go.  The best recommendation would be to look at the MCITP Server 2008 Enterprise Administrator certification exams if you're interested in pursuing that line.

    As to "other relevant microsoft courses", Microsoft offers quite a number of certification paths.  The best thing to do is to look thru the Microsoft Learning site and review the various certification paths available.

    Thursday, December 22, 2011 4:17 PM
    Answerer
  • I agree with Charles in the ...maybe.

    You have to set a career path for the next 30 years. As Microsoft said: Where do you want to go today?. From your BA/BS/BE you can go to a Master or PHD, or get some real world experience, or do any of them joined or alone. Certifications only gives the assurance that know something about something. And, definitely, experience counts. In the other hand, the world keeps turning and the technology evolving and changing. You can't keep yourself still with a BA/BS/BE alone anymore. You need to tell to your employers that you are a updated or current professional. The more you study, the more value you bring to a job. Sometimes too much.

    Finding a job fresh out of school requires the effort to consider the job search as a job itself.

    There are many certifications on many areas, some technical, some other in management. As DBs there are MS SQL, Oracle, DB2, Pervasive, and many others, but your career course will tell if you want to go for one or for all of them.

    As Charles put, we are working with technology that has been evolving long ago, from PC technology. I could recommend you to look in COMPTIA for basic certifications, like A+, Server+, Network+ for basics. Think about project abilities as well.

    Please look here for some guidance: http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/cert-overview.aspx

    Alfredo Arizaleta, PMP, MCT, MCITP, MCSA, MCSE, A+, NETWORK+, ITIL v2

     


    Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no express or implied warranties or rights.
    Thursday, December 22, 2011 8:33 PM
  • Thanks for the information guys,i think mcitp is based on 2008 and mcse is based on 2003.so i think its better to take mcittp then mcse?
    Monday, December 26, 2011 3:42 PM
  • Iam doing my final year B.E in Electronics and communication.I just want to know about the course MCSE,will it be helpful for me to get a job as a fresher?

    I have not learned about database or about servers in my graduation,As its a different field all together will it be tough?

    can you provide other relevant microsoft courses? i know C but not totally, I would like to know about program developers and the relavent course?

    As you have discovered, technology and engineering are two completely different fields.  Technology, at most, tops out at a Master's level of education.  Engineering extends to a doctorate level, and even the Anglo-American approach to engineering compressed the original, post-graduate field of engineering into a compressed Bachelor's program back in the 17th century (largely to increase the internship for licensure from 2 to 4 years, as it requires more internship than law or medicine).

    I have a traditionally EE myself, and moved into a software engineering role doing embedded development (first assembly, then VxWorks, then embedded Linux).  But I eventually "fell back" on technology and IT, because it was more stable.  Like yourself, I didn't get any IT in college.  We studied applied physics and microeconomics, learning to build systems of equations to explain systems -- whether they be physical, electromagnetic or microeconomic.  That's not practical for technology.

    As I often say, you need 1 engineer for every 10 technologists for every 100 technicians.

    A technician doesn't need to know the first thing about semiconductor lattices to design a networking ASIC, because he's just installing the equipment.  And while a technologist may design a network's layout, and even be able to read the engineering specifications, his time would be much better spent, and more practical to his employer, learning products than trying to design them.  And then there's the obvious "science" limitation, as using calculus for everything you do is a tall order for someone not formally educated and able to do RF design (yes, the world is still very much analog in computers, even if you don't see it ;).  At the same time, you still need technologists telling engineers what they are doing wrong, as they are in the field, and engineers are often not.

    Here in the US, we're done for in engineering.  We've graduated so few that we've lost our edge.  Being an engineer, I've see this first-hand.  It's why I've also rolled over into IT, as poor as that might be for the future of the US, it's the reality of the market.

    I had zero (0) certifications in 2002, and was "under-employed" for five (5) months that year.  The way out was to acquire IT certifications, as HR/procurement departments were big on them.

    Understand I had done IT since I was a teenager (very late '80s), was a hostmaster (InterNIC DNS maintainer), heavy UseNet user for five (5) years before the Web hit, etc...  I had experience with OS/2, SCO, SunOS and VMS.  I got into NT early on because I was at the largest installed based of the first native NT app, an engineering firm I interned with in college for three (3) years.  And as a software engineer, I was often the "IT tech" as well, as our IT department knew Windows 95 and that's about it.  In fact, I implemented NT 3.1, 3.50, 3.51 and 4.0 (and never had to support any DOS-based Windows like 95/98 in my entire, professional career).

    And GNU platforms were a given after NASA proved with Sojourner ("Mars Pathfinder") that GNU platforms running commodity cores (68K, PPC, ARM, etc...) were the future by the mid-'90s.  So being that Linux was a native GNU development platform, I was soon leveraging Linux for more than just web and basic print and file (NFS/Samba) infrastructure.  Once embedded Linux took over anything mission critical from VxWorks by the 21st century, that path was set.  You had Linux in everything, embedded, infrastructure, core Internet capabilities, literally replacing Sun as "the dot."  So I had to learn LDAP and Kerberos internals, how AD-LDAP differed from IETF-LDAP, MS-Kerberos from MIT-Kerberos, and all of the legacy and security services.  Many enterprises had already adopted Netscape iPlanet DS/Certificate (now Red Hat DS and related stacks), and were looking to integrate new AD into their existing LDAP infrastructure.

    So getting back to my point ...

    That all meant absolute jack when it came to pitching myself for IT projects.

    So I went out and took almost forty (40) IT exams.  Best thing I ever did, even if the exam-only costs ran up over $5K.  I never had any hurt for work after that.  The certs got me past the head hunters and HR/procurement departments, and my experience did the rest.

    So what's this mean for you?  Don't know.

    You definitely need practical IT and technology experience with certifications.  While I understand many employers, HR/procurement, etc... departments want a degreed engineer or CS major, but I'm also the first one that will say it means jack.  One doesn't need a degree to do IT or technology, let alone I don't subscribe to the "learnable" argument of people with a degree (and, again, I say this as someone with an EE).  Certifications get you in the door, but experience and implementation sells you.

    I made $6/hour while I was in college, and did that for three (3) years.  Understood I grew up in a civil engineering household, and was doing trigonometry at age 9.  But that all mattered jack, as I did not have any experience.  What I did from age 18-21 did everything for my IT knowledge.  It allowed me to return to it when the aerospace industry was not looking so bright by 2001.  So all I can suggest is taking an entry-level or even intern position if you want to get into IT, if you really want to, because you'll need that in addition to your certifications.

    Or maybe you should stay in the EE/RF field, and build your career there.  Right now the hottest career, even in the US, is RF.  There is still a lot of wireless infrastructure no matter where you go, and people who can do the DiffQ and transforms for communication and EM Fields in their heads are making the money.  Because wireless is everywhere, and technologists (much less technicians) do not have the background to understand -- let alone describe -- the complex interaction of systems of that real old skool voodoo that is basically, at the core, "analog" ("generation D" my butt).

    I know for myself, I am kinda kicking myself for not going that route, instead of the software route.  So maybe you should consider it, especially if you were an A/B student in engineering.


    • Edited by TheBS Monday, December 26, 2011 5:17 PM
    • Marked as answer by Mr. WhartyModerator Thursday, February 2, 2012 7:00 AM
    Monday, December 26, 2011 5:12 PM
  • You sound like my clone in many ways - had three MCP certs in 2008 back from 1999 and now have over 80 in everything from ITIL to PMP tp MS to COMPTIA to CISSP and so on.  I am enrolled in a PhD in Computer Information Systems as that is one thing I will disagree,  Been into computers since the Commodore Pet, then Vic 20, then C-64, then Amigas and Mac and 8088's all the way to my nice set of servers.  Again, WITHOUT certification, it is hard to get hired.  Over 15 years program management, and had it difficult to even find a job without a PMP.  Was also an EE without the degree co-designing one of the first electronic dartboard games with another EE type without a degree.  Now, they are everywhere (electronic dartboards).  I do find certification exams easy and take the exams after I have worked some time with the technology.  The easiest exams are the MOS - took 4 in one day (would have taken all 9 but the testing center was only open four hours) and passed.  I think the MOS 2010 would add some credibility REGARDLESS of what field you are working in today.  Again, all self taught, so when I went for my Masters and now PhD, the courses are a breeze.  I just wish experience and NOT certs mattered.
    Wednesday, December 28, 2011 9:12 PM
  • You sound like my clone in many ways - had three MCP certs in 2008 back from 1999 and now have over 80 in everything from ITIL to PMP tp MS to COMPTIA to CISSP and so on.  I am enrolled in a PhD in Computer Information Systems as that is one thing I will disagree,  Been into computers since the Commodore Pet, then Vic 20, then C-64, then Amigas and Mac and 8088's all the way to my nice set of servers.  Again, WITHOUT certification, it is hard to get hired.  Over 15 years program management, and had it difficult to even find a job without a PMP.  Was also an EE without the degree co-designing one of the first electronic dartboard games with another EE type without a degree.  Now, they are everywhere (electronic dartboards).  I do find certification exams easy and take the exams after I have worked some time with the technology.  The easiest exams are the MOS - took 4 in one day (would have taken all 9 but the testing center was only open four hours) and passed.  I think the MOS 2010 would add some credibility REGARDLESS of what field you are working in today.  Again, all self taught, so when I went for my Masters and now PhD, the courses are a breeze.  I just wish experience and NOT certs mattered.

    Interesting.  I've never seen a PhD in IT, at least here in the US.  I would be interesting in finding out more.  I've always noted anything IT as terminal at a master's.

    I studied microelectronics and semiconductor in my EE, which was not an EET (or CET for that matter).

    Sunday, January 8, 2012 2:16 PM