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Error? Or what is that "Helpful" for? RRS feed

  • Question

  • I just noticed the following. Is it some sort of a bug or what is the "Helpful" for?


    The following is my signature:

    Powershell Programmer & Advanced Lua Programmer

    Location: Switzerland

    Beside that, whenever you see a reply, you think is helpful, click "Alternate TextVote As Helpful"! And whenever you see a reply being an answer to the main question of the thread, click "Alternate TextMark As Answer" (if you opened the thread).

    Please contact me, before reporting me, thank you.

    [string](0..21|%{[char][int]([int]("{0:d}" -f 0x28)+('577076797174-87661607769657424-8687168065964').substring(($_*2),2))})-replace' '

    Friday, November 2, 2012 9:12 AM

Answers

  • UPDATE: The product team says the string was updated to "Helpful Answers", and it randomly turns out that the horizontal space isn't wide enough for both words to be on the same line... resulting in what looks like the word "Helpful" added above it. I asked more related questions. 

    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)




    Hi all!, this is Albert, PM at Microsoft for the recognition program. First of all, thanks everybody for the feedback! This all got originated because in many languages (in fact all except for English) the translated term for answer and reply is the same, so the statistics were using the same term twice for different purposes, all in all more confusing for users. In analyzing the data behind the statistic 'answers' (hint: it's not just one value :P), I thought that adding the 'helpful' was a good way to solve the problem... since that way we had an all up value for replies, and then a subset of those replies that have been deemed as 'helpful'. This also seemed aligned with the satistic 'helpful posts' statistic already there for quite some time. Unfortunately the term got 'truncated' so it takes a bit of imagination to read the entire sentence. We will fix that in some future UX revamp of the page. That said, if you guys have any suggestions for better terminology, please feel free to share!
    Monday, November 26, 2012 5:30 PM
    Moderator
  • UPDATE: The product team says the string was updated to "Helpful Answers", and it randomly turns out that the horizontal space isn't wide enough for both words to be on the same line... resulting in what looks like the word "Helpful" added above it. I asked more related questions. 

    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)



    Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:19 AM
    Owner

All replies

  • Good question!

    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Friday, November 2, 2012 3:51 PM
    Moderator
  • I bet it's suggesting that we are all helpful people ;)

    You know, as opposed to unhelpful ;)

    Karl


    When you see answers and helpful posts, please click Vote As Helpful, Propose As Answer, and/or Mark As Answer



    My Blog: http://unlockpowershell.wordpress.com
    My Book: Windows PowerShell 2.0 Bible
    My E-mail: -join ("6B61726C6D69747363686B65406D742E6E6574"-split"(?<=\G.{2})",19|%{[char][int]"0x$_"})

    Friday, November 2, 2012 4:14 PM
    Moderator
  • HI Livio !

    In Forum Profile Experience Page, Statistics "Helpful Posts" shows the number of your replies which has got a "Helpful Vote".

    These are non- distinct number, means if you have a reply which has been voted "8" times as Helpful it will appear "8" in "Helpful Posts".

    Please let me know if this helps. Hopefully i have answered you correctly.

    Thanks, Hasham Niaz

    Saturday, November 3, 2012 10:41 PM
    Moderator
  • There is another section listed as 'Helpful' with no number and no explanations as what does it mean.

    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Sunday, November 4, 2012 12:05 AM
    Moderator
  • There is another section listed as 'Helpful' with no number and no explanations as what does it mean.

    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Ohh yeah .. i never see that ... Thanks for pointing it out ,,,Definitely a mistake by a Developer as i see this in "Recent Profiles" which has been created awhile ago.

    Surely Ed will submit this as a bug.

    Thanks, Hasham Niaz

    Sunday, November 4, 2012 2:24 AM
    Moderator
  • Thanks Hasham, but I knew that already, and thanks for Naomi, for pointing out, that there's a second "Helpful".

    Anyways, I like the answer of Karl Mitschke. :)


    The following is my signature:

    Powershell Programmer & Advanced Lua Programmer

    Location: Switzerland

    Beside that, whenever you see a reply, you think is helpful, click "Alternate TextVote As Helpful"! And whenever you see a reply being an answer to the main question of the thread, click "Alternate TextMark As Answer" (if you opened the thread).

    Please contact me, before reporting me, thank you.

    [string](0..21|%{[char][int]([int]("{0:d}" -f 0x28)+('577076797174-87661607769657424-8687168065964').substring(($_*2),2))})-replace' '


    • Edited by Livio von Büren Monday, November 5, 2012 10:06 AM Thanks for removing the Report, next time, please contact me, what I did wrong.
    Monday, November 5, 2012 7:46 AM
  • that is not a "helpful" section with no numbers, but part of the next section: "helpful answers". Apparently someone is reviewing all posts marked as answers, in order to disqualify those that are "unhelpful answers" :-)


    Al Dunbar -- remember to 'mark or propose as answer' or 'vote as helpful' as appropriate.

    • Proposed as answer by sipla Tuesday, November 20, 2012 10:19 AM
    Sunday, November 11, 2012 3:44 AM
  • I bet it's suggesting that we are all helpful people ;)

    You know, as opposed to unhelpful ;)

    Karl


    When you see answers and helpful posts, please click Vote As Helpful, Propose As Answer, and/or Mark As Answer



    My Blog: http://unlockpowershell.wordpress.com
    My Book: Windows PowerShell 2.0 Bible
    My E-mail: -join ("6B61726C6D69747363686B65406D742E6E6574"-split"(?<=\G.{2})",19|%{[char][int]"0x$_"})


    Surelly a profile's section bug, but lol, I like your answer :-)

    MCP | MCTS 70-236: Exchange Server 2007, Configuring

    Want to follow me ?  |  Blog: http://www.jabea.net | http://blogs.technet.com/b/wikininjas/

    Sunday, November 11, 2012 4:46 AM
  • Ha! Great find! I submitted a bug request.

    Thanks!


    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:31 AM
    Owner
  • I followed up with the support team.

    Thanks!


    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:59 AM
    Owner
  • UPDATE: The product team says the string was updated to "Helpful Answers", and it randomly turns out that the horizontal space isn't wide enough for both words to be on the same line... resulting in what looks like the word "Helpful" added above it. I asked more related questions. 

    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)



    Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:19 AM
    Owner
  • I think the word 'Helpful' is not needed, as 'Answers' or 'Replies' is enough. What if that 'answer' was not really 'helpful'?

    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:25 AM
    Moderator
  • So the propposal of this word, is to show us how many replies are voted as helpful? Hmm, it looks good.

    If you get your question answered, please come back and Alternate TextMark As Answer.
    Web Developer

    Wednesday, November 21, 2012 4:29 PM
  • Using Firebug or any other web debugger, we can see it

    <td class="name">Helpful Answers</td>
    <td class="value">
    <span>232</span>
    </td>


    If you get your question answered, please come back and Alternate TextMark As Answer.
    Web Developer

    Thursday, November 22, 2012 11:14 AM
  • UPDATE: The product team says the string was updated to "Helpful Answers", and it randomly turns out that the horizontal space isn't wide enough for both words to be on the same line... resulting in what looks like the word "Helpful" added above it. I asked more related questions. 

    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)




    Hi all!, this is Albert, PM at Microsoft for the recognition program. First of all, thanks everybody for the feedback! This all got originated because in many languages (in fact all except for English) the translated term for answer and reply is the same, so the statistics were using the same term twice for different purposes, all in all more confusing for users. In analyzing the data behind the statistic 'answers' (hint: it's not just one value :P), I thought that adding the 'helpful' was a good way to solve the problem... since that way we had an all up value for replies, and then a subset of those replies that have been deemed as 'helpful'. This also seemed aligned with the satistic 'helpful posts' statistic already there for quite some time. Unfortunately the term got 'truncated' so it takes a bit of imagination to read the entire sentence. We will fix that in some future UX revamp of the page. That said, if you guys have any suggestions for better terminology, please feel free to share!
    Monday, November 26, 2012 5:30 PM
    Moderator
  • I think for English the terms 'Answers', 'Helpful Votes' and 'Replies' will be good.

    For Russian, may be

    '

    Ответ

    Пост

    Полезный пост'

    I can see that in Russian we don't really have good words for the same. I even had to ask my husband how to translate 'Helpful' as the word didn't come naturally to me.


    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Monday, November 26, 2012 5:45 PM
    Moderator
  • So the propposal of this word, is to show us how many replies are voted as helpful? Hmm, it looks good.

    If you get your question answered, please come back and Alternate TextMark As Answer.
    Web Developer

    Norkk,

    No, sorry. We need to be clear. "Helpful Answers" really just means all the times your replies get marked as answers. Naomi's proposal to remove "Helfpul" makes a lot of sense. Thanks!


    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Monday, November 26, 2012 7:37 PM
    Owner
  • I think for English the terms 'Answers', 'Helpful Votes' and 'Replies' will be good.

    For Russian, may be

    '

    Ответ

    Пост

    Полезный пост'

    I can see that in Russian we don't really have good words for the same. I even had to ask my husband how to translate 'Helpful' as the word didn't come naturally to me.


    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog


    Naomi,

    I also have been suggesting "Helpful Votes"! I'm glad we agree (on that and just "Answers"). The problem with "Helpful Posts" is that it isn't accurate. You could have five Helpful Votes on one post.

    Thanks!


    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Monday, November 26, 2012 7:54 PM
    Owner
  • I thought we see the following stats:

    Answers

    Helpful Votes

    Replies (BTW, it looks like all replies are counted, even deleted).

    In this case, Answers, Helpful Votes and Replies are good terms to use.

    If we can have more granular statistics, it will be better, e.g.

    Answers:

      Answers with Code

       Marked by OP   Marked by Moderator

      Answers without Code

       Marked by OP     Marked by Moderator

    Replies

    Helpful Votes 

     


    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Monday, November 26, 2012 8:08 PM
    Moderator
  • I see - in Russian it's hard to translate 'Helpful Vote'. That's why I wanted to even ask in Russian speaking forum for such suggestions, but got a bug (unable to post) and switched to other tasks. If you have other Russian speaking contacts you can ask this question (may be someone from MS), it will be good.

    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Monday, November 26, 2012 8:12 PM
    Moderator
  • I thought we see the following stats:

    Answers

    Helpful Votes

    Replies (BTW, it looks like all replies are counted, even deleted).

    In this case, Answers, Helpful Votes and Replies are good terms to use.

    If we can have more granular statistics, it will be better, e.g.

    Answers:

      Answers with Code

       Marked by OP   Marked by Moderator

      Answers without Code

       Marked by OP     Marked by Moderator

    Replies

    Helpful Votes 


    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Naomi,

    Good feature request. How would it work? Would you click "Forums" to get a devoted page? Maybe in the same "Experience" tab, but a "Back" link appears at the top of the new Forums only page?

    http://social.technet.microsoft.com/profile/ed%20price%20-%20msft/?ws=usercard-inline

    Currently they've limited themselves to only 3 or 4 stats per social app and then 2 short words per stat. So we'd have to abreve your words, and you'd be adding 6 more lines to 3 lines, when the current limit is 4 lines (thus needing another page where you don't have such a narrow width limit and you don't have four other apps that need to be reported on in the same screen).

    Thanks!


    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Monday, November 26, 2012 8:18 PM
    Owner
  • Yes, I agree that the text should be what you think...

       Answers

       Helpful Votes

       Replies

     

    "Helpful Answers" is obviously confusing (two people were confused as to what it means in this thread alone), it's silly (two people made fun of it in this thread alone and a lot of others agreed on its silliness), and it's simply not accurate, as you've mentioned (not all marked answers are helpful, and it sounds like the stat only includes posts that are marked as Answers and also voted as Helpful, which isn't true).

    The current term "Helpful Posts" also isn't accurate (you could have one post with five Helpful Votes on it).

    So I think we agree.

    Thanks!


    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)




    Monday, November 26, 2012 8:22 PM
    Owner
  • The box for statistics in Forums will be bigger if we want to implement my suggestion.


    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Monday, November 26, 2012 8:34 PM
    Moderator
  • Yes, sure. For Enligish I think we need to use 'Answers', 'Helpful Votes', 'Replies'

    My concern now that it's not easy to translate in some languages.

    I am curious to see other languages translations (the ones that are used in forums).


    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Monday, November 26, 2012 8:37 PM
    Moderator
  • I've got a related question:

    Is it expected that the "Answers" number does not include all answers that have been unmarked? So it's a tally of "current" answers and not the "total" answers?

    Because I just assumed that was the case, but I'm curious what everyone else thought.


    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Tuesday, November 27, 2012 3:55 AM
    Owner
  • I think it should be only answers (e.g. if the answer was unmarked, that number should be decremented). I think the same should be applied to Replies, e.g. if the reply (or post) is deleted, it should not be counted. And actually, instead of Replies, perhaps it should say 'Total posts' as I assume that all posts are counted, not just replies.

    Also, due to the recent bug when no history is provided when my answer is marked I believe many of my answers are not reflected in my number of Answers. I ask please once the bug will be fixed, all my stats please be re-calculated fresh!


    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog

    Tuesday, November 27, 2012 4:00 AM
    Moderator
  • Why not try something like "Got voted as helpful"? I know it's a quite long title but than there would be no misunderstanding.


    The following is my signature:

    Powershell Programmer & Advanced Lua Programmer

    Location: Switzerland

    Beside that, whenever you see a reply, you think is helpful, click "Vote As Helpful"! And whenever you see a reply being an answer to the main question of the thread, click "Mark As Answer" (if you opened the thread).

    I published the URL's for the icons in my signature.

    Please contact me, before reporting me, thank you.

    [string](0..21|%{[char][int]([int]("{0:d}" -f 0x28)+('577076797174-87661607769657424-8687168065964').substring(($_*2),2))})-replace' '

    Tuesday, November 27, 2012 7:46 AM
  • That said, if you guys have any suggestions for better terminology, please feel free to share!

    Accepted answers?

    "Helpful posts" is misleading since it seems to be the amount of posts with at least one vote. However if you filter posts in the forum with the "Helpful" filter, you only get posts with five or more votes. Perhaps you could change the number to the total amount of votes received. "Votes". And add a separate stat for the five vote posts.

    You could also add a number for the amount of original posts... or just "Posts" (original posts + replies).

    While I'm at it, I'd like to see a link to threads the user has contributed to in the profile. We used to have that, but it disappeared after the recognition update. (It's still possible to get by changing the user parameter from the My Threads link, http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/user/threads?user=<displayname>) Links to the Gallery, Wiki, Blog entries the user has contributed to would be nice too.

    Also, most of the "My Forum Links" links should be visible in the profile. I expect to be able to change My settings" from My profile for example. (A separate tab next to the "Activity" tab visible when looking at your own profile maybe?)

    • Edited by sipla Tuesday, November 27, 2012 10:38 AM
    Tuesday, November 27, 2012 10:32 AM
  • Why not try something like "Got voted as helpful"? I know it's a quite long title but than there would be no misunderstanding.


    The following is my signature:

    Powershell Programmer & Advanced Lua Programmer

    Location: Switzerland

    Beside that, whenever you see a reply, you think is helpful, click "Vote As Helpful"! And whenever you see a reply being an answer to the main question of the thread, click "Mark As Answer" (if you opened the thread).

    I published the URL's for the icons in my signature.

    Please contact me, before reporting me, thank you.

    [string](0..21|%{[char][int]([int]("{0:d}" -f 0x28)+('577076797174-87661607769657424-8687168065964').substring(($_*2),2))})-replace' '

    Too long. "Helpful Votes" is just as clear. If it's too long, then UX bugs pop up and a lot of difficulties.

    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Wednesday, November 28, 2012 6:36 PM
    Owner
  • That said, if you guys have any suggestions for better terminology, please feel free to share!

    Accepted answers?

    "Helpful posts" is misleading since it seems to be the amount of posts with at least one vote. However if you filter posts in the forum with the "Helpful" filter, you only get posts with five or more votes. Perhaps you could change the number to the total amount of votes received. "Votes". And add a separate stat for the five vote posts.

    You could also add a number for the amount of original posts... or just "Posts" (original posts + replies).

    While I'm at it, I'd like to see a link to threads the user has contributed to in the profile. We used to have that, but it disappeared after the recognition update. (It's still possible to get by changing the user parameter from the My Threads link, http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/user/threads?user=<displayname>) Links to the Gallery, Wiki, Blog entries the user has contributed to would be nice too.

    Also, most of the "My Forum Links" links should be visible in the profile. I expect to be able to change My settings" from My profile for example. (A separate tab next to the "Activity" tab visible when looking at your own profile maybe?)

    Technically all Answers are accepted. They aren't counted otherwise.

    Thanks!


    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Twitter, Wiki)

    Wednesday, November 28, 2012 6:36 PM
    Owner
  • Technically all Answers are accepted. They aren't counted otherwise

    ? ...I was suggesting an alternate to "Helpful Answers" as per Albert Cabellos request. All answers are not actually helpful and "Helpful" has other, ambiguous, meanings in the forums nomenclature. (Helpful Post (5+ votes) and Helpful Posts (1+ votes (in the profile stats))

    I don't mind just having "Answers" and "Replies", I know the distinction here (in these forums)... Actually I'm not sure why the English translation needed a "Helpful" (or any other descriptor) there. Just because many languages translate answer and reply to the same word, doesn't mean the English translation needs to be changed.

    Thursday, November 29, 2012 10:26 AM
  • So, in English:

    Answers (total number - when answer is umarked, that number should be decremented)

    Votes (total number of posts which were voted as helpful)

    Replies (total number of currently non-deleted posts - replies and thread started posts). We can change it to 

    Threads Started

    Replies

    --------------------

    This is the minimum stats I'd like to see. Also, I'd like this statistics to be real and without errors (as in my case due to various forums bugs).


    For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Becker's Law


    My blog



    Thursday, November 29, 2012 1:04 PM
    Moderator
  • If you want to change stats, why not put in all the stuff for the achievements? I read some people have problems getting achievements. With the stats you could check that.

    Answers
    Answers (You Proposed)
    Helpful Votes Given Away
    Replies
    Moved Threads

    Instead of the long names, you could also only write one word and make a "..." and when you hover over the "..." you can see the whole text like in a pop up window or something.


    The following is my signature:

    Powershell Programmer & Advanced Lua Programmer

    Location: Switzerland

    Beside that, whenever you see a reply, you think is helpful, click "Vote As Helpful"! And whenever you see a reply being an answer to the main question of the thread, click "Mark As Answer" (if you opened the thread).

    I published the URL's for the icons in my signature.

    Please contact me, before reporting me, thank you.

    [string](0..21|%{[char][int]([int]("{0:d}" -f 0x28)+('577076797174-87661607769657424-8687168065964').substring(($_*2),2))})-replace' '

    Friday, November 30, 2012 8:10 AM
  •  "Helpful Answers" really just means all the times your replies get marked as answers. Naomi's proposal to remove "Helfpul" makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

    ok, I thought this means answers with at least 1 helpful vote. In this case the count of answers doesn't match:


    "A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code"

    • Proposed as answer by 刻录Banned Friday, January 4, 2013 7:43 AM
    • Unproposed as answer by 刻录Banned Friday, January 4, 2013 7:46 AM
    Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:18 AM
  • I first thought it means "Marked someones post as answer" because I found someone with only one "Helpful Answer", 10 points and the bronze medal of marking someone's post as answer.

    I just later saw that he/she had 10 points.


    The following is my signature:

    Powershell Programmer & Advanced Lua Programmer

    Location: Switzerland

    Beside that, whenever you see a reply, you think is helpful, click "Vote As Helpful"! And whenever you see a reply being an answer to the main question of the thread, click "Mark As Answer" (if you opened the thread).

    I published the URL's for the icons in my signature.

    Please contact me, before reporting me, thank you.

    [string](0..21|%{[char][int]([int]("{0:d}" -f 0x28)+('577076797174-87661607769657424-8687168065964').substring(($_*2),2))})-replace' '

    • Proposed as answer by 刻录Banned Friday, January 4, 2013 7:45 AM
    • Unproposed as answer by 刻录Banned Friday, January 4, 2013 7:45 AM
    Friday, January 4, 2013 7:31 AM