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Tag editing in TechNet Wiki RRS feed

  • Question

  • Changing only tags for a TechNet Wiki article seems to be recognised as a valid edit. Handful of users discovered that and seem to have started gaming the system. Is there any way to stop that, i.e. to set up some thresholds that qualify edits as contributing to the achievements?

    Partial resolution would be to allow moderators to remove specific versions (including achievements) but that could be seen as harsh.

    Cheers
    George


    George Doubinski, MVP http://crm.georged.id.au

    Wednesday, February 20, 2013 10:02 PM

Answers

  • I often use tags to find articles. When I edit an article I check for a few tags and add them if they are missing. A few times the only change I make is to add a tag, but I believe this is a useful feature that improves the Wiki, just as much as correcting typos or modifying the title casing.

    One time I saw where someone updated a few of my articles and I could not find anything changed on the History tab (and no comment). Perhaps it is possible to click "Edit", then "Save", and get credit for an edit.

    XAML Guy's crawl seems able to distinguish tag edits, to perhaps it is feasible to distinguish cases where the only change was to a tag. Of course, once it is known that such an edit doesn't count, someone gaming the system will make some other minor edit (perhaps delete a word and then put it back).


    Richard Mueller - MVP Directory Services

    Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:09 PM
  • I'd like to offer my opinion on this if I may.

    In the world of information and content management a wiki is social and technically unstructured data. As such, the tags provide an extremely valuable means of creating access point structure to wiki articles for end users. The wiki without tags would effectively make finding topic based articles very difficult - one would only have the options to search or browse pages like you would on a blog.

    It is natural for people to think and to describe content differently. The tag functionality allows everyone to 'tag' articles in an effort to describe content based on their own way of thinking. The wiki is social after all and everyone should feel encouraged to supplement an article's tags when they feel there is a new tag that adds value to 'finding' the article.

    There are many in the community, myself included, who have spent quite a bit of time improving the way wiki articles can be accessed and browsed by topic via the addition of tags. While it is technically a 'minor' edit, cumulatively across all articles tags have a 'major' impact. I largely spend time on the SharePoint articles to ensure that people browsing by a tags, whether it is a topic or language tag, have an easier time finding what they are looking for.

    Perhaps the council could consider implementing some sort of system for the community to report tag abuse. Like Ed, I have not seen a particular instance of someone abusing this functionality just to game the system. If someone adds a tag just for the edit credit, then removes it right away, then I believe this should not be counted as an edit. 

    Other options the council could consider may include:

    • Change the point scale for tag edits vs. article content edits when articles reach page view milestones. Content is king and it is the reason people contribute, collaborate on and consume articles within the wiki.
    • Add a 'Wiki Community Tag Editor' achievement that is specifically for tag editing and change the 'Wiki Editor' achievements to apply only to article content edits. The 'Wiki Community Tag Editor' could apply to tag edits where the individual is not the article first publisher as these tag edits wouldn't be subject to 'gaming' the system if someone edits an article they first published. The tagline for a potential wiki community tag editor achievement could be "Improving the way the wiki community can find articles" or variations along those lines. 
    • To give additional weight to Richard's comment "Of course, once it is known that [a tag] edit doesn't count, someone gaming the system will make some other minor edit (perhaps delete a word and then put it back)". Since the wiki is based on social contributions some people could try to 'game' the system in multiple ways. The vast majority of people who contribute are honest and don't think this way. We need to ensure that the honest contributors are properly recognized and implementing contribution type differences may become a slippery slope for the volume of contributions.

    I think that removing tag additions/edits from being recognized as a type article edit would remove some of the incentive from contributing for some individuals. Although I'd still supplement articles with tags regardless of whether there is any type of recognition change as it is the right thing to do, this type of change could prompt a shift in perception that tags don't matter when they really play a significant role in the success of the wiki.

    My two cents.

    Craig


    Senior Systems Engineer / SharePoint Architect
    Bermuda SharePoint Users Group Leader | My Blog | Twitter: @craiglussier @bermudaspug


    Saturday, February 23, 2013 9:54 PM
  • True. Minor and major edits both count and carry the same weight, including tag edits. Tags are currently seen as a viable and valuable edit.

     

    So that's one answer: an action item I'll take. I'll have the council discuss this decision... revisit the decision that a tag change should hold the weight of an "edit". If we don't think it should, then we'd need to go to the profile team to discuss technical options.

     

    Personally I use tags a lot, because they help us slice and cut our article results by topic and track what articles have what characteristics. For example, I could use tags to find every Spanish article on PowerShell that includes a video.

     

    But another question on this topic is whether or not there are users who are adding and removing tags to "game" the system and are not actually improving the Wiki via tag enrichment. For example, I have seen a few edits out there where I think someone clicks the Edit tab, does nothing really (maybe adds a space somewhere; not sure), and then saves it. That counts toward an edit. However, I haven't seen anyone do this so often where it seems they are gaming the system. Also, I haven't actually seen anyone add and then remove tags that aren't actually trying to improve the tag list. But if someone doesn't think tags are valuable in general, then most any tag activity could be interpreted as "gaming" the system. But for that matter, any minor edit could be interpreted as gaming the system.

     

    Let me give you one end-to-end tag example. I featured your "Microsoft Dynamics CRM 2011 Development Resources" article on the home page of TechNet Wiki (http://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki). To track each article featured on the home page, we have a tag, TechNet Wiki Featured Article. That allows readers to browse through a list of featured articles, sorted by last edited. It also enables us to slice on the list (for example, every Windows Azure article featured that has over 20 comments). It also provides the important feature of telling an editor whether or not the article they are currently looking at has been featured (without having to go to another page). So when I featured your article, I added that tag.

     

    Regarding the question of whether or not you see anyone adding and removing tags just to get edit credits, please let us know. Because I haven't seen this yet (but it's technically possible).

    Thanks!


    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Small Basic, Wiki Ninjas, Wiki)

    Answer an interesting question? Create a wiki article about it!


    Friday, February 22, 2013 9:48 PM

All replies

  • True. Minor and major edits both count and carry the same weight, including tag edits. Tags are currently seen as a viable and valuable edit.

     

    So that's one answer: an action item I'll take. I'll have the council discuss this decision... revisit the decision that a tag change should hold the weight of an "edit". If we don't think it should, then we'd need to go to the profile team to discuss technical options.

     

    Personally I use tags a lot, because they help us slice and cut our article results by topic and track what articles have what characteristics. For example, I could use tags to find every Spanish article on PowerShell that includes a video.

     

    But another question on this topic is whether or not there are users who are adding and removing tags to "game" the system and are not actually improving the Wiki via tag enrichment. For example, I have seen a few edits out there where I think someone clicks the Edit tab, does nothing really (maybe adds a space somewhere; not sure), and then saves it. That counts toward an edit. However, I haven't seen anyone do this so often where it seems they are gaming the system. Also, I haven't actually seen anyone add and then remove tags that aren't actually trying to improve the tag list. But if someone doesn't think tags are valuable in general, then most any tag activity could be interpreted as "gaming" the system. But for that matter, any minor edit could be interpreted as gaming the system.

     

    Let me give you one end-to-end tag example. I featured your "Microsoft Dynamics CRM 2011 Development Resources" article on the home page of TechNet Wiki (http://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki). To track each article featured on the home page, we have a tag, TechNet Wiki Featured Article. That allows readers to browse through a list of featured articles, sorted by last edited. It also enables us to slice on the list (for example, every Windows Azure article featured that has over 20 comments). It also provides the important feature of telling an editor whether or not the article they are currently looking at has been featured (without having to go to another page). So when I featured your article, I added that tag.

     

    Regarding the question of whether or not you see anyone adding and removing tags just to get edit credits, please let us know. Because I haven't seen this yet (but it's technically possible).

    Thanks!


    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Small Basic, Wiki Ninjas, Wiki)

    Answer an interesting question? Create a wiki article about it!


    Friday, February 22, 2013 9:48 PM
  • I often use tags to find articles. When I edit an article I check for a few tags and add them if they are missing. A few times the only change I make is to add a tag, but I believe this is a useful feature that improves the Wiki, just as much as correcting typos or modifying the title casing.

    One time I saw where someone updated a few of my articles and I could not find anything changed on the History tab (and no comment). Perhaps it is possible to click "Edit", then "Save", and get credit for an edit.

    XAML Guy's crawl seems able to distinguish tag edits, to perhaps it is feasible to distinguish cases where the only change was to a tag. Of course, once it is known that such an edit doesn't count, someone gaming the system will make some other minor edit (perhaps delete a word and then put it back).


    Richard Mueller - MVP Directory Services

    Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:09 PM
  • I'd like to offer my opinion on this if I may.

    In the world of information and content management a wiki is social and technically unstructured data. As such, the tags provide an extremely valuable means of creating access point structure to wiki articles for end users. The wiki without tags would effectively make finding topic based articles very difficult - one would only have the options to search or browse pages like you would on a blog.

    It is natural for people to think and to describe content differently. The tag functionality allows everyone to 'tag' articles in an effort to describe content based on their own way of thinking. The wiki is social after all and everyone should feel encouraged to supplement an article's tags when they feel there is a new tag that adds value to 'finding' the article.

    There are many in the community, myself included, who have spent quite a bit of time improving the way wiki articles can be accessed and browsed by topic via the addition of tags. While it is technically a 'minor' edit, cumulatively across all articles tags have a 'major' impact. I largely spend time on the SharePoint articles to ensure that people browsing by a tags, whether it is a topic or language tag, have an easier time finding what they are looking for.

    Perhaps the council could consider implementing some sort of system for the community to report tag abuse. Like Ed, I have not seen a particular instance of someone abusing this functionality just to game the system. If someone adds a tag just for the edit credit, then removes it right away, then I believe this should not be counted as an edit. 

    Other options the council could consider may include:

    • Change the point scale for tag edits vs. article content edits when articles reach page view milestones. Content is king and it is the reason people contribute, collaborate on and consume articles within the wiki.
    • Add a 'Wiki Community Tag Editor' achievement that is specifically for tag editing and change the 'Wiki Editor' achievements to apply only to article content edits. The 'Wiki Community Tag Editor' could apply to tag edits where the individual is not the article first publisher as these tag edits wouldn't be subject to 'gaming' the system if someone edits an article they first published. The tagline for a potential wiki community tag editor achievement could be "Improving the way the wiki community can find articles" or variations along those lines. 
    • To give additional weight to Richard's comment "Of course, once it is known that [a tag] edit doesn't count, someone gaming the system will make some other minor edit (perhaps delete a word and then put it back)". Since the wiki is based on social contributions some people could try to 'game' the system in multiple ways. The vast majority of people who contribute are honest and don't think this way. We need to ensure that the honest contributors are properly recognized and implementing contribution type differences may become a slippery slope for the volume of contributions.

    I think that removing tag additions/edits from being recognized as a type article edit would remove some of the incentive from contributing for some individuals. Although I'd still supplement articles with tags regardless of whether there is any type of recognition change as it is the right thing to do, this type of change could prompt a shift in perception that tags don't matter when they really play a significant role in the success of the wiki.

    My two cents.

    Craig


    Senior Systems Engineer / SharePoint Architect
    Bermuda SharePoint Users Group Leader | My Blog | Twitter: @craiglussier @bermudaspug


    Saturday, February 23, 2013 9:54 PM
  • Craig, that's a good feature idea. It would require work on both the Wiki and Profile.

    Can you add it as a feature idea here: Social Platform Feature Requests

    Thanks!


    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Small Basic, Wiki Ninjas, Wiki)

    Answer an interesting question? Create a wiki article about it!

    Sunday, February 24, 2013 2:45 AM
  • I often use tags to find articles. When I edit an article I check for a few tags and add them if they are missing. A few times the only change I make is to add a tag, but I believe this is a useful feature that improves the Wiki, just as much as correcting typos or modifying the title casing.

    One time I saw where someone updated a few of my articles and I could not find anything changed on the History tab (and no comment). Perhaps it is possible to click "Edit", then "Save", and get credit for an edit.

    XAML Guy's crawl seems able to distinguish tag edits, to perhaps it is feasible to distinguish cases where the only change was to a tag. Of course, once it is known that such an edit doesn't count, someone gaming the system will make some other minor edit (perhaps delete a word and then put it back).


    Richard Mueller - MVP Directory Services

    Richard's right. If gaming the system is the issue, then the first thing we need to fix is those times people edit an article do nothing (or nothing noticeable, maybe add a space for no reason) and then save the article. But honestly I don't even know if they're gaming the system or simply checking out the Edit window.

    Ed Price (a.k.a User Ed), SQL Server Customer Program Manager (Blog, Small Basic, Wiki Ninjas, Wiki)

    Answer an interesting question? Create a wiki article about it!

    Sunday, February 24, 2013 2:48 AM