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  • Question

  • Hi i started to get this message pop-up yesterday, does this mean a newer release is due.?

    will my curent install stop working on the 11th january or will MS re-authorise it?

    Wednesday, December 29, 2010 11:18 AM

Answers

  • It won't stop working entirely, but functionality will be reduced.

    Microsoft has mentioned (in a blog post) that they expect to release a new beta in the mid-January time frame, but it's possible that your current server will expire before then. If you have important data on your server (you shouldn't; everything should be backed up elsewhere) you may want to copy it off.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Wednesday, December 29, 2010 1:43 PM
    Moderator

All replies

  • It won't stop working entirely, but functionality will be reduced.

    Microsoft has mentioned (in a blog post) that they expect to release a new beta in the mid-January time frame, but it's possible that your current server will expire before then. If you have important data on your server (you shouldn't; everything should be backed up elsewhere) you may want to copy it off.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Wednesday, December 29, 2010 1:43 PM
    Moderator
  • It's not so much a panic question because of having data on my vail setup, as all my data is backed up. i was just taken by surprise that the server will stop in less than 2 weeks with no prior information being released,  there's still no current information coming from MS the Home Server blog hasn't been updated since 30th november, and nothing on the connect site either.

    I also read the blog post of a new beta being released in january, but like most expected the life cycle of the current beta to last beyond that.

    but with the recent move of HP from home server market and the DE removal, and no definitive statement from MS regarding the future of Vail, does the 11th January mark the end of Vail.

     

    Wednesday, December 29, 2010 2:39 PM
  • Can we get an answer if an update is gonna be released that increases our beta time?  I wanna know so I can start copying stuff now or not.
    athlon 3400, 2gb ram, 7 drives totaling about 6.5 tbs.
    Saturday, January 1, 2011 6:55 PM
  • Can we get an answer if an update is gonna be released that increases our beta time?  I wanna know so I can start copying stuff now or not.
    athlon 3400, 2gb ram, 7 drives totaling about 6.5 tbs.

    Don't plan on an update that will push expiration of the current version (Preview Refresh) past mid-January. Assume that you will have to flatten your server when the next beta is released (which, as I've said, Microsoft mentioned for around mid-January).

    In other words, you should start copying stuff.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Saturday, January 1, 2011 7:16 PM
    Moderator
  • I just started the process to flatten the Vail server.  All PCs are back to WHS v1 for backups. There never were data that were unique to Vail, so it can be squished when the time comes.
    Sunday, January 2, 2011 12:23 AM
  • It seems strange that thousands of us contribute by testing this software and providing valuable feedback to Microsoft while issues like what to do in less than 2 weeks with a Vail server whose software will turn off is not being answered.  A simple software update to extend the license via a download seems pretty simple for someone like Microsoft.  Answers like copying all of your "stuff" off and shutting down the server seem crazy.  We all have invested our time, money and expertise in testing this product and deserve more support that what we are seeing.

    Many of us have submitted product ideas, improvements and error reports including files to Microsoft.  It would seem that a system of mutual respect should be in play here.

    Sunday, January 2, 2011 2:06 PM

  • Answers like copying all of your "stuff" off and shutting down the server seem crazy.  We all have invested our time, money and expertise in testing this product and deserve more support that what we are seeing.

    Note that this software is beta. Use in production is not recommended or supported. If you have any irreplaceable data at all on your Vail server, you are braver than me (and significantly less sensible). If you've chosen to use Vail in production in defiance of the warnings at the top of this forum, in the EULA you agree to when you install, etc. then you've signed up for this pain already.

    So it's time to figure out your strategy for advancing to the next build. Option A is to back your server up using the built-in server backup functionality, then restore your shares from that backup after an upgrade. That's what I do when I need to install a new build (which I wind up doing rather more frequently than y'all; I get to see the bleeding edge when bugs mean you really do bleed, and there are bugs in every build). This is relatively slow, I've found; my server takes me most of a day to restore fully. It does work, though, and it's been 100% reliable. Option B is to put a test load of data on your server, i.e. copies of stuff you have protected elsewhere, and not worry about losing data in a rebuild. (This is what I recommend to most testers.) Option C is everything else.

     


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Sunday, January 2, 2011 3:01 PM
    Moderator
  • Pitty that USB 3.0 or eSATA doesn't work in Vail backing up the Vail server.

    Hopefully either or both will in the next build.

    Moving files in Windows 7 using eSATA is 3x faster than USB 2.0 in my testing, using a 30 GB folder.

     

    Suggestion @ Connect:

    https://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsHomeServer/feedback/details/572048/include-a-esata-drive-function-for-server-backups

     

    Sunday, January 2, 2011 4:52 PM
  • Pitty that USB 3.0 or eSATA doesn't work in Vail backing up the Vail server.

    Hopefully either or both will in the next build.

    Moving files in Windows 7 using eSATA is 3x faster than USB 2.0 in my testing, using a 30 GB folder.

     

    Suggestion @ Connect:

    https://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsHomeServer/feedback/details/572048/include-a-esata-drive-function-for-server-backups

     

    I use an internal IDE drive to back up the server system areas, and used eSATA before that.  Why do you think eSATA or USB 3.0 won't work?

    Sunday, January 2, 2011 6:23 PM
  • Option B is to put a test load of data on your server, i.e. copies of stuff you have protected elsewhere, and not worry about losing data in a rebuild. (This is what I recommend to most testers.)

    This option makes the most sense for me. I have a new server built to test Vail.  I simply copied some of the data from my WHS1 over to Vail and use those data for routine access, making sure that the WHS v1 box has the real stuff.  I use the server backup to protect the OS, and not any of the data. It actually worked well for me, as my WHS v1 box ran into issues requiring a lot of care.  The second server helped ensure my data were safe during surgery.  So I did trust it for a couple of weeks, although critical files were copied elsewhere, too.

    Once the beta is over, the new box will become my production server, either running WHS v2 or something else.

    Sunday, January 2, 2011 6:33 PM
  • Pitty that USB 3.0 or eSATA doesn't work in Vail backing up the Vail server.

    Hopefully either or both will in the next build.

    Moving files in Windows 7 using eSATA is 3x faster than USB 2.0 in my testing, using a 30 GB folder.

     

    Suggestion @ Connect:

    https://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsHomeServer/feedback/details/572048/include-a-esata-drive-function-for-server-backups

     

    I use an internal IDE drive to back up the server system areas, and used eSATA before that.  Why do you think eSATA or USB 3.0 won't work?


    Tested the eSATA & VAIL would not boot w/ the eSATA drive plugged in, after unplugging the drive Vail booted fine but would not detect the eSATA drive when plugging it in & turning on after Vail was @ desktop.  But is in Windows 7.

    Maybe I was doing it wrong.

    Have you tried a backup w/ a eSATA drive?

    Sunday, January 2, 2011 11:43 PM
  • Ken and others in this thread . . .

     

    I am pretty new to the beta program (Vail).  But, have been testing for a few months and suggested some enhancements and found a few bugs which I have reported.  I am uncertain what "flattening" my server actually means.  But, I have a specific question.

    If my WHS Vail server becomes "limited" in its functionality when the trial license expires, will it affect the data that I have on internal SATA drives that are holding purely data (no OS files).  It would seem that these drives should be unaffected but the server IS maintaining these drives with some sort of drive management software so it makes me uneasy that these data drives may some how be affected.  Do y'all have any idea how this data might be affected (none of it is critical data but I'd rather not have to copy it to my NAS if it won't be affected).  Thank you for any info.  MJB

    Monday, January 3, 2011 1:22 AM
  • [I am uncertain what "flattening" my server actually means.  But, I have a
    specific question.]
     
    Flattening simply means wiping the hard drive and starting over with the new
    beta bits. Which, hopefully, we'll get within the next couple of weeks.
     
    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 Beta Ferret
     
     

    Nancy Ward
    Monday, January 3, 2011 3:04 AM
  • Since DE is being removed, you need to assume your data will be lost and act accordingly.
    Don Bushway
    Monday, January 3, 2011 7:38 AM
  • Gulp.  Couldn't be much more clear than that.  Thank you Nancy.
    mjb
    Tuesday, January 4, 2011 12:26 AM
  • [Gulp.  Couldn't be much more clear than that.  Thank you Nancy.  mjb]
     
    's OK. Someone had to tell me too. :)
     
    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 Beta Ferret
     
     

    Nancy Ward
    Tuesday, January 4, 2011 2:27 AM
  • I wish they had waited for the next refresh before the license expired. This would have allowed me to easily copy files over from the old server to the new server. I know, I know, beta, blah blah blah. But still.
    Wednesday, January 5, 2011 2:17 PM
  • Ken, Thanks for your response.  I own 3 servers and one is testing Vail.  The other two are 17 TB HP servers that back up my digital files so I do not have my data at risk.  My comment was that Microsoft seems to have no respect for our time.  A simple extension of the deadline is easy.  In addition a new beta announcment would stop all this complaints on the web regarding Vail's future and also the loss of DE on future products.

    Microsoft needs to communicate more to its loyal customers.  It's us geeks who help keep them developing good software.

    Wednesday, January 5, 2011 2:37 PM

  • A simple extension of the deadline is easy.

    It would be nice if Microsoft would make an official announcement, but …

    No extension is possible; there's a time bomb in the OS (Windows Server 2008 R2) which goes off on the 10th. This time bomb is not tied to the product ID, and can't be defeated/changed. At best, functionality will be reduced, at worst nonexistent (complete server failure when it goes off). This behavior is intentional on Microsoft's part, and they aren't going to be releasing a patch that will change the expiration time (it would require the Windows Server 2008 product team, not the HSBS team).

    I don't recommend you delay in recovering your data.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Wednesday, January 5, 2011 8:57 PM
    Moderator
  • Absolutely pathetic. Typical Micro$oft...
    Saturday, January 8, 2011 3:16 AM
  • [Absolutely pathetic. Typical Micro$oft...]
     
    I disagree that it's typical Microsoft. I have waited long periods for new
    beta bits, but have never been on a beta that expired before new bits were
    released to us.
     
    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 Beta Ferret
     
     

    Nancy Ward
    Saturday, January 8, 2011 5:51 AM
  • Wow!  As a WHS novice, I must say that when I saw the expiration notice, I was very surprised.  I immediately assumed the next version had been released (either the next beta or the retail version) and looked forward to loading the same.  After reading the various posts, including the post of the moderator that basically stated that anyone who used the beta version other than for pure testing was an idiot, I have decided to dust off my Linux books and abandon Microsoft.  I must say that I am floored by what I have read this evening.

    As a beta tester, I have used my WHS as my primary home server.  Everything stored on my WHS of value is backed up (several ways and independant of the WHS backup).  However, if I did not use WHS Vail for my day-to-day family business, what good would I be as a beta tester?  Really? 

    If Microsoft lets WHS Vail expire before the retail version is released or the next beta version, it is clear that the inmates are running the asylum.  For 20 years, I have been a NBM promoter (Nothing but Microsoft), but when the moderator makes such increadibly short-sighted posts, I must assume that the culture at MS has turned and that the idiots have driven away the folks that have made MS great over the years.

    Again, Wow!  Unless I a missing something, is the current chain of events designed by MS to kill WHS?

    I sincerely hope that between now and the next 3 days, the intellegent folks at MS step in and send the morons in charge of the Vail expiration packing.

    Do I need to say anymore.

    Matthew Liss

    Roswell, Georgia

    p.s.  Really?  Really?   This is what I came back from the holidays to deal with?

     

     

    Saturday, January 8, 2011 6:43 AM
  • [Wow!  As a WHS novice, I must say that when I saw the expiration notice, I
    was very surprised.  I immediately assumed the next version had been
    released (either the next beta or the retail version) and looked forward to
    loading the same.  After reading the various posts, including the post of
    the moderator that basically stated that anyone who used the beta version
    other than for pure testing was an idiot, I have decided to dust off my
    Linux books and abandon Microsoft.  I must say that I am floored by what I
    have read this evening.]
     
    For what it's worth, the documentation clearly states the expiration date;
    we should all have been aware of it from the outset.
     
    [As a beta tester, I have used my WHS as my primary home server.  Everything
    stored on my WHS of value is backed up (several ways and independant of the
    WHS backup).  However, if I did not use WHS Vail for my day-to-day family
    business, what good would I be as a beta tester?  Really?]
     
    Exactly what I have done, although this machine is still primarily a beta
    machine.
     
    [If Microsoft lets WHS Vail expire before the retail version is released or
    the next beta version, it is clear that the inmates are running the asylum.
    . . I sincerely hope that between now and the next 3 days, the intellegent
    folks at MS step in and send the morons in charge of the Vail expiration
    packing.]
     
    There's really no call to make such derogatory remarks about Microsoft. As a
    technical beta tester, I know that the Teams are aware of all my activities
    in these forums, if you get my drift.
     
    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 Beta Ferret
     
     

    Nancy Ward
    Saturday, January 8, 2011 1:05 PM
  • [Absolutely pathetic. Typical Micro$oft...]
     
    I disagree that it's typical Microsoft. I have waited long periods for new
    beta bits, but have never been on a beta that expired before new bits were
    released to us.
     
    Nancy Ward
    Windows 8 Beta Ferret
     
     

    Nancy Ward

    Nancy I think you nailed it.  Usually beta expiration is a non-issue as people migrate but right now it seems like the team is having a really hard time making decisions and sticking with them.  It all feels sloppy and kind of rushed.  See:

    Removal of DE

    Not having a beta lined up to replace the previous one

    Not extending the time  (apparently that's too much work?!  maybe they're busy)

    The mess that was DEv1

     

    So it seems to me like a combination of poor coding and sloppy management has led to the current situation.  Of course it doesn't help that no one communicated to us that there would be a significant gap between betas (probably because they didn't know, see the part about DE removal).

    Overall it seems awfully inconsiderate of them although I also understand the team is probably extraordinarily busy reworking the product to remove DE and continue building features.

     

    PS - Ken, really?  You come off as arrogant and rude which (having been here since the WHSv1 beta days) I know you're not.  You can do better.

    Sunday, January 9, 2011 5:31 PM
  • Did anyone try the suggestion made by SBS Diva?

     

    http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2011/01/07/aurora-and-vail-bomb-out-on-monday.aspx

     

    Her proposed workaround (apparently untested) is to install the Server 2008 SP1 beta.  I've done so but I don't know how to check when my "expiration" is.  :(

    EDIT:  It worked for me :D

    If it does not work for you, try turning back the clock in your BIOS.  Just be aware things may not work as expected... (e.g. remote desktop sometimes won't connect)

    • Proposed as answer by jamesb2147 Monday, January 10, 2011 5:08 PM
    • Edited by jamesb2147 Monday, January 10, 2011 5:10 PM
    Sunday, January 9, 2011 5:36 PM
  • On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 17:36:02 +0000, jamesb2147 wrote:

    ?I've done so but I don't know how to check when my "expiration" is. ?:(

    Start/Run/winver


    Paul Adare
    MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager
    http://www.identit.ca
    Want custom ringtones on your Windows Phone 7 device?
    Supercomputer:  Turns CPU-bound problem into I/O-bound problem.  -- Ken
    Batcher

    Sunday, January 9, 2011 5:46 PM
  • Did anyone try the suggestion made by SBS Diva?

     

    http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2011/01/07/aurora-and-vail-bomb-out-on-monday.aspx

     

    Her proposed workaround (apparently untested) is to install the Server 2008 SP1 beta.  I've done so but I don't know how to check when my "expiration" is.  :(

    doesn't seem to work, i installed it & ran "winver" and it still says it's set to expire on the 10th :(
    Sunday, January 9, 2011 11:05 PM
  • Nancy:

    Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post.  As for the derogatory comments, I must stand by what I said.  As a professional (albeit novice home server user), I assume that I fit in the demographic of those retail consumers who have the discretionary income to invest in a WHS.  As we speak, I am loading a new OS on my home server.  For me, WHS is no longer a viable option and never will be.  Individually, I am nobody to Microsoft.  However, by driving me away, someone who is probably in the center of the retail demographic with repsect to retail sales of WHS, it is clear that WHS is dead as far as the powers to be are concerned at Microsoft.

    I have participated in several other beta programs and prior to expiration of any particular version, a new beta version or the final retail version would be released.  Having been an ardent supporter of Microsoft products in the past (and being the partner in charge of IT matters at my firm), I am very dissapointed.  In fact, I feel somewhat let down by how this has all unfolded.

    For years, I have always been a huge Microsoft supporter.  At one of the first law firms I worked at in the early 90's, I introduced Windows for Workgroups.  I pushed Windows NT back when the Novell folks were still alive.  When the linux crowd came around, I resisted the same and dismissed all of the negative comments and positions the linux geeks were promoting.  After all these years, I must say that I am shocked about how this was handled.

    As for big brother reading these posts, I welcome it.  If I was not so busy, I would love the opportunity to hop a flight to Redmond to pay a visit to those in charge to let them know that the decision makers on the WHS team should be reassigned or let go.  If anything, the sales and marketing folks need to have a serious discusion with the WHS decision makers about how not to screw up a product.  By losing its base of core users (the ones willing to load and test the beta version), how can Microsoft expect to win over those folks on the fence?  Over the past few years, I must have told hundreds of folks about my WHS.  Those positive comments/free-advertising are over.

    At the end of the day, the EULA controls and I was well aware of the risks in participating in the beta program.  All of my files are secure and I actually look forward to playing with my new linux server.  It may be a bit too complicated for me but I have a neighbor who is a graduate student at George Tech who can help me with it (I believe he though I was an idiot for even using WHS).

    Thanks again for taking the time to respond to my post.  I wish we were talking about something else!

    Matthew Liss

    Roswell, Georgia

    p.s.  The cloud is king at Microsoft.  Why fool with WHS when you can use the Microsoft cloud?  Have no doubts, that is where they are going.

     

     

    Monday, January 10, 2011 6:36 AM
  • Did anyone try the suggestion made by SBS Diva?

     

    http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2011/01/07/aurora-and-vail-bomb-out-on-monday.aspx

     

    Her proposed workaround (apparently untested) is to install the Server 2008 SP1 beta.  I've done so but I don't know how to check when my "expiration" is.  :(

    doesn't seem to work, i installed it & ran "winver" and it still says it's set to expire on the 10th :(

    Really?  It seems to have worked for me.

     

    "Expires 3/15/2011 5:59PM"

     

    The blog I read did say that it *might* work... have you installed all the latest updates?

     

    EDIT:  actually, how did you install it?  I used the windows update fix (something like .5 MB in size).

    Monday, January 10, 2011 4:59 PM
  • Thanks Paul!  It worked :)
    Monday, January 10, 2011 5:13 PM
  • Just want to be sure..

     

    http://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2011/01/07/aurora-and-vail-bomb-out-on-monday.aspx

     

    On this link after you click get started here I went to microsoft site,,

     

    7601.17105.100929-1730-3_Update_Sp_Wave1-RC1SP1.1_DVD.iso
    1875.2 MB
    windows6.1-KB976932-X64.exe
    865.4 MB
    windows6.1-KB976932-X86.exe
    514.7 MB
    WUSignUpTool_x64.exe
    397 KB
    WUSignUpTool_x86.exe
    402 KB

     

    Which one should I install to overcome this vail expiration in next 4 hours?

    Once the vail beta expires either today or after 3 months, what choices I have? Where can I buy the final software etc?

    Also I have one more question.. I have the windows server enterprise 2008 promotional disk. Can I use this to backup my home machine and use as home server?

     

    Monday, January 10, 2011 6:44 PM
  • Either the x64 installer (865MB) or the complete ISO (1875MB).

    Once it expires, it will still turn on, but will BSOD every hour on the hour.

    I'm not certain you can buy the final software at all.  WHSv1 was OEM-only for a long time, recall.  Hopefully you have an MSDN subscription or similar, or MS magnanimously decides to sell it at retail.

    Good luck.

    Tuesday, January 11, 2011 4:12 AM