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Edge Server setup, without ISA in a DMZ - Need Thorough, Patient help, PLEASE!

Question
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Hello all! Ok, I will start off by saying that networking is usually not my thing, and networking in a DMZ is especially behind my normal working!
Now to describe our situation: Currently, we have a single, Standard edition OCS 2007 R2 deployment in our internal network. This "pool" consists of a single server. This server is housed at our MAIN site. We also have users at two other remote sites. These two other remote sites are on our AD Domain, but on different LANs and different subnets. We also have 1 ISA server at each site (total of 3 ISA servers), and our three sites are all connected by ISA site-to-site VPNs. These ISA site-to-site VPNs are set up to Route (not NAT) ALL traffic between the sites. Also, we do NOT have DMZs set up at any of the three sites. In each site, the ISA server servers as the sole Firewall (I know this may not be ideal, but it is what it is).
Now for DNS. Our internal domain is domainname.local, and externally the world knows us as domainname.com. Because of this, our email addresses end in domainname.com, and this is what we wanted to use to log in to the Communicator clients. So, we have split DNS set up in our environment, so that domainname.com is resolvable within our internal network. Therefore, the certificate used in our OCS server uses a SN of "OCS.domainname.com", and has an Subject Alternate Name of "OCS.domainname.local". For everyone at our main site, this setup works great! We can do Live Meetings with multiple participants, and we are able to share desktops, share applications, do whiteboarding, and do A/V. Awesome! Since the connection between our main site and remote sites consists of an ISA site-to-site VPN connection that ROUTES ALL traffic, I figured we would have the same functionality between the main and remote sites. Apparently, that would be too easy. A/V refuses to work between the sites.
I have been told by a few different sources now that even though this connection is in place that is supposed to ROUTE ALL traffice between the sites, A/V will still not work between the sites without an OCS Edge server in place at the main site. I suppose this would be necessary for external user access anyway.
Now, here is what I want to do. I have two small hardware firewalls, and I wish to use one as the external firewall that interfaces with the internet, and I wish to use the other to interface between our internal main site and the Consolidate Edge Server. I must be frank: after pouring over all sorts of documentation about how to deploy the edge server, I am more than a little confused! For one, I understand that the A/V server role must have a "publicly roubtable IP address", and that the firewalls on both sides of the DMZ should not NAT any traffic to the Edge server. So, when configuring the actual Edge server, do I literally assign three publicly routable IP addresses to the external-facing NIC of the Edge server?
When configuring the external firewall, I know that the internet-facing side of the firewall needs to having it's port configured with the three "publicly routable IP addresses", but what IP addresses need to be assigned to the port on the DMZ side of this firewall, the port that connects to the Edge server?
For the internal DMZ router, obviously the port facing our internal network will have three IP addresses assigned to it from our internal IP range, but what IP needs to be place on the DMZ facing side of this router?
As you can see, I am pretty confused about all the IPs involved with this setup, and how they interact (non-NATed). Now, as far as the FQDNs that are supposed to be assigned to both NICs on the Edge server; what do they consist of?! If the edge server is in it's own WORKGROUP, and not on the internal domain, then what would the FQDN be? Obviously not Edgeserver.workgroup...
Now, if someone can spell out very simply and plainly what is needed as far as external DNS records, that would be wonderful! Right now, externally, our DNS points ocs.domainname.com to an IP that resides on our ISA server. Ok, so what FQDN should exist in the outside world that will direct traffic to our Edge server. I don't understand what all our External DNS entries need to have to point certain traffic at ISA, and certain traffic at the Edge Server. I know that we already configured the rules in ISA so that we can successfully access https://ocs.domainname.com/GroupExpansion/ext/service.asmx. , https://ocs.domainname.com/conf/ext/Tshoot.html , and https://externalwebfarmFQDN/abs/ext. Like I said, we can successfully access these urls from the internet, so I am sure that ISA is set up properly. I have just gotten information overload as to how to setup the Edge DMZ setup. PLEASE help. I would greatly appreciate ANY help, but at this point some simple, clear explanations and directions will be more helpful that MS's wordy articles. Thanks again! I sincerely apologize about the extremely long post!Thursday, November 12, 2009 9:21 PM
Answers
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1. Yes, R2 now supports NAT on the A/V Edge role, but only on a single consolidated Edge server and not with arrays of Edge servers behind load balancers. Some of those older blog articles pre-date Release 2.
See this article for more details on this change: http://blogs.pointbridge.com/Blogs/schertz_jeff/Pages/Post.aspx?_ID=422. Yes, you are correct. Understand that in order to use NAT on the A/V Edge role there is a setting that must be enabled after deployment which is not part of the setup wizard. On the Edge interface properties the A/V Edge settings contain a checkbox for enabling NAT.
You'll also need to make sure that your Edge server resolves the av.domain.com FQDN to the public IP address (and not the private, NAT'd address assigned on the physical Edge server itself). This can be configured via either DNS or a HOSTS file entry. If the Edge server resolves that FQDN to its locally assigned IP (and not the public IP) then packets will be sent to external clients referencing the wrong, unreachable internal IP and those clients won't be able to connect back to it.
See this article for more details on that: http://blogs.pointbridge.com/Blogs/mcgillen_matt/Pages/Post.aspx?_ID=61
3. Only the sip.domain.com FQDN needs to given to clients, either manually or automatically via SRV lookup. The other external FQDNs (webconf, av, reverseproxy, etc) are all passed in-band by the OCS server to the client after it's successfully connected to the Access Edge service and authenticated.
Jeff Schertz, PointBridge | MVP | MCITP: Enterprise Messaging | MCTS: OCS- Proposed as answer by Jeff SchertzMVP, Moderator Saturday, November 14, 2009 2:06 PM
- Marked as answer by Gavin-ZhangModerator Friday, November 27, 2009 7:36 AM
Friday, November 13, 2009 5:43 PMModerator -
The Management Tool for the Edge server isn't a separate snap-in, it's only visible in the Computer Management administrative tool (compmgmt.msc), under Services and Applications. Open the Properties on the OCS object and then select the Interfaces tab, and look at the advanced settings on the A/V Edge role. There's a checkbox for the NAT support there.
See this article for more details: http://blogs.technet.com/rickva/archive/2009/04/03/Configuring-A_2F00_V-Edge-Service-for-NAT.aspx
That Linksys 'firewall' may not allow traffic to be routed through it without performing NAT between the two networks, dependingon the the model and flexibilty.
Jeff Schertz, PointBridge | MVP | MCITP: Enterprise Messaging | MCTS: OCS- Proposed as answer by Jeff SchertzMVP, Moderator Saturday, November 14, 2009 2:06 PM
- Marked as answer by Gavin-ZhangModerator Friday, November 27, 2009 7:36 AM
Friday, November 13, 2009 8:10 PMModerator -
A/V auth cert should be from internal private CA.
AE and WC should have separate, dedicated certs. So you'll have 4 total certs for the Edge Server, 2 private and 2 public.
This article should answer all your questions regarding the certificates for the Edge server:
http://blogs.pointbridge.com/Blogs/schertz_jeff/Pages/Post.aspx?_ID=79
Jeff Schertz, PointBridge | MVP | MCITP: Enterprise Messaging | MCTS: OCS- Proposed as answer by Jeff SchertzMVP, Moderator Saturday, November 14, 2009 2:06 PM
- Marked as answer by Gavin-ZhangModerator Friday, November 27, 2009 7:36 AM
Saturday, November 14, 2009 2:05 PMModerator -
Hi
It seems a DNS records have not been confifured well issue, you can refer to below link
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd441238(office.13).aspx
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd441238(office.13).aspx
Regards!
Gavin- Marked as answer by Gavin-ZhangModerator Friday, November 27, 2009 7:36 AM
Friday, November 27, 2009 7:35 AMModerator
All replies
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Take a look through these Edge-related blog articles to see if they help clear up your understanding:
More on OCS Edge Server Certificates
http://blogs.pointbridge.com/Blogs/schertz_jeff/Pages/Post.aspx?_ID=79OCS Edge on Server 2008 – The Strong Host Model:
http://blogs.pointbridge.com/Blogs/schertz_jeff/Pages/Post.aspx?_ID=78OCS R2 Edge Topologies Explained:
http://blogs.pointbridge.com/Blogs/schertz_jeff/Pages/Post.aspx?_ID=70Clarification on OCS Edge Support:
http://blogs.pointbridge.com/Blogs/schertz_jeff/Pages/Post.aspx?_ID=33OCS Edge Server Configuration Topologies:
http://blogs.pointbridge.com/Blogs/schertz_jeff/Pages/Post.aspx?_ID=19OCS Edge Server Requires Separate Internal and External Interfaces:
http://blogs.pointbridge.com/Blogs/schertz_jeff/Pages/Post.aspx?_ID=15
Jeff Schertz, PointBridge | MVP | MCITP: Enterprise Messaging | MCTS: OCSFriday, November 13, 2009 2:32 PMModerator -
Alright, I read over several of the articles you included, and perhaps I might be starting to connect some of the dots. A couple of the articles are VERY clear about a requirement for the physical, external NIC of the Edge server to have a publicly routable IP address assigned to it for the A/V Edge role. BUT, on your article entitled OCS R2 Edge Topologies Explained, it looks like you are saying that all three roles, to include the A/V Edge role, can be NAT'd from the External firewall. Apparently this is new to R2. Am I correct so far?
So, to be perfectly clear, can I have my three publicly routable IP address (one for each edge role) assigned only to the internet facing side of the external firewall, and then have the firewall NAT these addresses to the external NIC of the Edge server? And the external NIC of the Edge server would contain three IPs from a separate DMZ subnet (a different subnet than the one used by the internal NIC of the Edge server), each IP corresponding to a the respective NAT'd external IP address on the external side of the firewall?
If I am correct, awesome!!! If not, please tell me where I am misunderstanding.
Also, in one of your articles I saw a very simple diagram that showed the three publicly routable IP addresses going to the Edge server. Each one corresponded to a URL. The URLs were sip.domain.com, av.domain.com, and one other. So far so good. BUT, now my question is concerning those URLs. When are they referenced and when do they come into play? I mean, in reference to my setup that I outlined above, how would Communicator clients at my remote sites know to use the av.domain.com URL for A/V rather than trying to go through my internal OCS R2 Front End? I just haven't noticed where in the deployment of this whole thing that I point anything at these external URLs... Thanks so much for your patience and help, Jeff. I apologize that these concepts are seaping into my brain so slowly, but I think I am connecting the dots slowly...
v/r
JoshFriday, November 13, 2009 4:10 PM -
1. Yes, R2 now supports NAT on the A/V Edge role, but only on a single consolidated Edge server and not with arrays of Edge servers behind load balancers. Some of those older blog articles pre-date Release 2.
See this article for more details on this change: http://blogs.pointbridge.com/Blogs/schertz_jeff/Pages/Post.aspx?_ID=422. Yes, you are correct. Understand that in order to use NAT on the A/V Edge role there is a setting that must be enabled after deployment which is not part of the setup wizard. On the Edge interface properties the A/V Edge settings contain a checkbox for enabling NAT.
You'll also need to make sure that your Edge server resolves the av.domain.com FQDN to the public IP address (and not the private, NAT'd address assigned on the physical Edge server itself). This can be configured via either DNS or a HOSTS file entry. If the Edge server resolves that FQDN to its locally assigned IP (and not the public IP) then packets will be sent to external clients referencing the wrong, unreachable internal IP and those clients won't be able to connect back to it.
See this article for more details on that: http://blogs.pointbridge.com/Blogs/mcgillen_matt/Pages/Post.aspx?_ID=61
3. Only the sip.domain.com FQDN needs to given to clients, either manually or automatically via SRV lookup. The other external FQDNs (webconf, av, reverseproxy, etc) are all passed in-band by the OCS server to the client after it's successfully connected to the Access Edge service and authenticated.
Jeff Schertz, PointBridge | MVP | MCITP: Enterprise Messaging | MCTS: OCS- Proposed as answer by Jeff SchertzMVP, Moderator Saturday, November 14, 2009 2:06 PM
- Marked as answer by Gavin-ZhangModerator Friday, November 27, 2009 7:36 AM
Friday, November 13, 2009 5:43 PMModerator -
Excellent! Thank you so much for clarifying those points for me! That was very thorough, and I think a lot closer to understanding how to set this whole thing up. One other point of clarification, though. On the third point you made abotu the URLs. I understand exactly what you said. However, in regards to the webconf, av, etc. FQDNs, how do I know what those are so that I can configure them in our external DNS? We already have the one DNS record externally, communicator.domain.com, which points to an IP on our ISA server (reverse proxy), and that is how we can browse those certain directories that I outlined above. So, with that in mind, how do we determine the FQDN for the other roles? I am very glad that all we need to do is give clients the sip.domain.com FQDN, and that these other FQDNs are passed in-band, but in order for that to happen, where are these other FQDNs generated and configured at? Thanks again so much! You are really helping me more than you know!!!
v/r
JoshFriday, November 13, 2009 5:59 PM -
Ok, I think I see where those FQDNs are generated. I ran through the Edge Configuration Wizard, and realized that this is where I specify what those FQDNs are. So, now that they are created, I just need to create the external DNS records that contain those FQDNs and point to the publicly routable IP addresses that will be assigned to the internet-facing port of the external router. This router will in turn pass the traffic along to the respective private IP assigned to the external NIC of the Edge server. Good.
Now, about the settings that need to be in place for NAT to work, where can I find that checkbox for enabling NATing for the A/V edge role? I assumed that I needed to install the Administrative tools from the OCS disc, but when I did that and tried to open them, it didn't work as they require access to AD. And since this machine is in a DMZ and in a WORKGROUP rather than a domain, obviously I won't have access to AD. SO, where can I go to enable NATing for the A/V Edge role?
Another question about the Internal connection of the Edge server. I am using a simple Lynksis router as the internal "firewall" of the DMZ. As I understand it, the internal IP of the Edge Server should not be NATed at all. SO, if our internal network has a range of 10.10.8.0 - 10.10.11.255 (Mask = 255.255.252.0), and the internal range connected to the internal NIC of the Edge server is 192.168.1.0 - 255, do I have to do anything special with DNS in my internal network. I have an entry for the FQDN of the Edge server, and it points to the 192.168.1.X address. I just didn't know how the routing would work with that range being behind the internal firewall of the DMZ. Also, are there extra DNS records that need to be created internally in our domain?
Thanks so much!Friday, November 13, 2009 7:57 PM -
The Management Tool for the Edge server isn't a separate snap-in, it's only visible in the Computer Management administrative tool (compmgmt.msc), under Services and Applications. Open the Properties on the OCS object and then select the Interfaces tab, and look at the advanced settings on the A/V Edge role. There's a checkbox for the NAT support there.
See this article for more details: http://blogs.technet.com/rickva/archive/2009/04/03/Configuring-A_2F00_V-Edge-Service-for-NAT.aspx
That Linksys 'firewall' may not allow traffic to be routed through it without performing NAT between the two networks, dependingon the the model and flexibilty.
Jeff Schertz, PointBridge | MVP | MCITP: Enterprise Messaging | MCTS: OCS- Proposed as answer by Jeff SchertzMVP, Moderator Saturday, November 14, 2009 2:06 PM
- Marked as answer by Gavin-ZhangModerator Friday, November 27, 2009 7:36 AM
Friday, November 13, 2009 8:10 PMModerator -
Awesome, found it! Ok, so that part is good. At this point I am pretty much waiting for our new "publicly routable IP addresses" from the ISP. Once I have those I can configure the external router and hopefully do some testing. Now, as far as the internal router goes, I have a Linksys WRV200 in place. Not really sure if this can be used or not, as I don't see anywhere to turn NAT off. There is a section called "Advanced Routing" where you can choose the mode that your router runs in, either Gateway or Router. I chose Router, but not really sure if that does the trick. Since NAT is not allowed between internal network and internal NIC of Edge server, do you know of any cheap routers that will allow this functionality? I am just trying to make the traffic flow the way it should without having to go nuts with acquiring equipment.
OH YEAH! I forgot, one last thing. I think I read in one of your posts that the certificates on the external NIC of the Edge server need to be from public third party CAs, except for the A/V edge role. Is this correct? Can I attach a certificate from my internal CA to the external NIC of the Edge server for the A/V role? Also, can I use the same certificate from a third party CA for both the Access Edge role and the Web Conf role, providing that one of the FQDNs is in Subject Name, and the other FQDN shows up as a SAN? Or do they have to be separate certificates?
Jeff, I can't thank you enough for all your help! Thanks for holding my hand through this. I think I am getting really close!Friday, November 13, 2009 10:02 PM -
A/V auth cert should be from internal private CA.
AE and WC should have separate, dedicated certs. So you'll have 4 total certs for the Edge Server, 2 private and 2 public.
This article should answer all your questions regarding the certificates for the Edge server:
http://blogs.pointbridge.com/Blogs/schertz_jeff/Pages/Post.aspx?_ID=79
Jeff Schertz, PointBridge | MVP | MCITP: Enterprise Messaging | MCTS: OCS- Proposed as answer by Jeff SchertzMVP, Moderator Saturday, November 14, 2009 2:06 PM
- Marked as answer by Gavin-ZhangModerator Friday, November 27, 2009 7:36 AM
Saturday, November 14, 2009 2:05 PMModerator -
Alright, I now have everything in place like you have instructed me to do so far. Looking good, except that I don't yet have the external IPs (publicly routable) to assign to the internet-facing side of the external firewall. So, when I attempt to start the services in the OCS Edge Server Wizard menu, everything succeeds except for startin the two A/V services because they don't have the proper DNS records set up yet for the external FQDNs. Also, I am having issues connecting up between the Front End server and the Edge server. I don't believe the little Linksys router that I had between our Internal network and the Edge server would allow for non-NATing. SO, just to try and test functionality, I removed the router, and gave the internal NIC of the edge server a static IP from our Internal network (but still leaving the Edge server in a WORKGROUP). I updated the internal DNS A record that points to the Edge server to point at the new internal IP. My issue I am having is this:
After updating the settings on the Front End server to reflect the Edge server FQDN in all the appropriate places (Federation settings, A/V edge settings, etc.), I get errors when running Validation on the Front End Web server. I get the following:
DNS Resolution failure: No DNS A records were found for this host
Suggested Resolution: Make sure there are no typos in the Server name. Make sure that the Server name is published in the DNS (A or SRV record) or hosts file entry is configured correctly.Failure
[0xC3FC200D] One or more errors were detected
I get this error for both the Global Federation Route and Local Federation Route, which is the the FQDN of the Edge server. This doesn't make any sense to me cause on Front End Web server, I can do an nslookup on that FQDN and get the correct IP address. That being said, this error is obvioulsy misleading. Any other ideas about why I would get this error, and what can be done to rectify it? Thanks so much for all your help! You have gotten me leaps and bounds further than where I started last week!
v/r
JoshWednesday, November 18, 2009 8:10 PM -
Hi
It seems a DNS records have not been confifured well issue, you can refer to below link
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd441238(office.13).aspx
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd441238(office.13).aspx
Regards!
Gavin- Marked as answer by Gavin-ZhangModerator Friday, November 27, 2009 7:36 AM
Friday, November 27, 2009 7:35 AMModerator