Answered by:
What happens to Live Mesh XP Users?

Question
-
Hello, I use Live Mesh in a network of XP downgrade computers in an institutional (large university) setting. I don't see or expect an upgrade to version 7 or Vista any time soon. Yet I understand that Windows Sync will be replacing Live Mesh, and that Windows Sync does/will not work on Windows XP. So.... what happens? Are we being dropped off the cliff here? Would love some sense to help me plan for the future -- I have NO control over OS support at the institutional level... thanks.Tuesday, August 17, 2010 12:14 AM
Answers
-
Yes, unfortunately, that means that once the back end environment for Live Mesh is shut down, your Mesh of XP machines will stop working. Since we have not heard when the updated Live Sync will ship as a final product, we also don't know when the existing Live Mesh infrastructure will be shut down. I am sure, however, that there will be a reasonable period of overlap - probably at least a few months - before Live Mesh will stop working entirely after Live Sync is released.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~- Marked as answer by Stephen BootsMVP, Moderator Tuesday, August 17, 2010 3:06 PM
Tuesday, August 17, 2010 3:06 PMModerator
All replies
-
Yes, unfortunately, that means that once the back end environment for Live Mesh is shut down, your Mesh of XP machines will stop working. Since we have not heard when the updated Live Sync will ship as a final product, we also don't know when the existing Live Mesh infrastructure will be shut down. I am sure, however, that there will be a reasonable period of overlap - probably at least a few months - before Live Mesh will stop working entirely after Live Sync is released.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~- Marked as answer by Stephen BootsMVP, Moderator Tuesday, August 17, 2010 3:06 PM
Tuesday, August 17, 2010 3:06 PMModerator -
Thanks for the prompt and helpful (if unwelcome!) reply. Not sure where I might go. Suggestions from anyone solicited....Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:11 PM
-
Well, one option for you might be the native Windows Remote Desktop functionality, though it won't work on Home editions of XP.
Another option, though not free, is GoToMyPC. There are also many freeware/shareware remote desktop applications out there.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Wednesday, August 18, 2010 11:51 AMModerator -
For sync, many people have been recommending Dropbox as an option. I've not used it, so can't comment.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Wednesday, August 18, 2010 11:51 AMModerator -
I'm in a similar situation and I really hope that's not the final word.
I’m aware that XP’s lifecycle is ending, and it’s definitely not my first choice, but sometimes you just don’t have an influence on the OS you have to use.So at the moment I not only have to look for alternatives for syncing and remote desktop, this also keeps me from upgrading my private PC to the new Live Suite.
This decision is IMHO just plain stupid.Monday, October 4, 2010 7:49 AM -
I believe that it is the final word, unfortunately. Windows Live Essentials 2011 has been released - http://explore.live.com/windows-live-essentials?os=other and it doesn't install on XP machines. I have 3 machines, including a netbook, still on XP, so I feel your pain. I can upgrade 2 of the machines, but the netbook will be painful to upgrade. So, these 3 machines are still running Live Mesh Beta and the prior version of Windows Live Essentials.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Monday, October 4, 2010 12:29 PMModerator -
I still don't understand why XP is not included in Live Mesh. I also understand that XP is at the end of its life cycle but not to include it is a slap in the face to alot of faithful users. Microsoft won't include versions of its own operating system that users have paid for but it will include support for MAC users that Microsoft didn't get a dime from.
oscore1
Saturday, October 9, 2010 2:13 PM -
Just when I actually begin using Microsoft services again after many years of no longer even being on my radar, they do this. Oh well, it's back to Microsoft not even being a last choice, but no choice at all. (I'd even started using Hotmail again.) Thank goodness for Google and Dropbox.
Edit: Add Opera to those two. Microsoft, believe it or not, I can live without you just fine. You're not the only game in town, and far from being the best.
- Edited by Stephen BootsMVP, Moderator Tuesday, October 12, 2010 2:00 PM sig removed
Tuesday, October 12, 2010 6:34 AM -
I still don't understand why XP is not included in Live Mesh. I also understand that XP is at the end of its life cycle but not to include it is a slap in the face to alot of faithful users. Microsoft won't include versions of its own operating system that users have paid for but it will include support for MAC users that Microsoft didn't get a dime from.
oscore1
Resources. Support for XP will end down the road. I imagine the logic is that Windows Live Essentials 2011 is an add-on only made available to the latest 2 versions of Windows, Vista and 7. The Mac client is a different story. Note that it only supports the latest version of OSX, too. Have an early version of OSX on an old iMac? You'd be out of luck, too.-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Tuesday, October 12, 2010 2:02 PMModerator -
Typical MS upgrade cycle :( how can you support MAC and not XP - disappointing but it's all about the units and not the user experience for MSSaturday, October 16, 2010 12:54 PM
-
On 17 Aug-10, Steve wrote: ...[We] don't know when the existing Live Mesh infrastructure will be shut down.
<QP>
Dear Live Mesh beta participant,You’re receiving this message because you used the Live Mesh beta from Microsoft. On March 31, 2011, the beta of Live Mesh will end, and the Live Mesh beta [and therefore Windows Live Sync 2009] will stop working. After March 31, you won’t be able to access any files stored online in your Live Desktop or connect to your PCs remotely using the Live Mesh software. Your files will also stop syncing between your computers and your Live Mesh online storage...
</QP>
Source: Email sent to Windows Live Mesh Beta participants as quoted by Richard Hays hereI also found the following somewhere [1] and quoted same in an email to one of my clients who are running Windows Live Sync 2009 on their WinXP computers:
<QP>
...[you] will have at least six months after the official release of Windows Live Essentials 2011 before Windows Mesh or Windows Live Sync beta stops working...
</QP>So it would appear that MS is "throwing the switch" on WLMesh "Wave 4" Beta & WLSync 2009 on or shortly after 31 March 2011.
FWIW my clients (who were running FolderShare when MS acquired it in November 2005 & who are not about to purchase new Win7 computers) are considering GoodSync Pro, Allway Synch Pro, Syncables 360 & GoToMyPC as replacements for WLSync 2009.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[1] I thought I'd seen this in a reply (by a Windows Live representative) to a Comment posted in http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_live/b/windowslive/archive/2010/09/30/windows-live-essentials-2011-available-for-download-now.aspx but it's not there now.
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) ~ MS MVP (IE, Mail, Security, Windows & Update Services) since 2002 ~ Disclaimer: MS MVPs neither represent nor work for MicrosoftMonday, October 18, 2010 5:58 PM -
Thanks, PA Bear. I forgot to update this thread.
By the way, I use GoodSync Pro happily on my work machines and for some extensive local synchronization of data.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Monday, October 18, 2010 7:06 PMModerator -
...I use GoodSync Pro happily on my work machines and for some extensive local synchronization of data
So I read elsewhere. That's one of the reasons I recommended it to my clients. <w>Monday, October 18, 2010 8:57 PM -
"To deliver a better product for all our customers" is what Microsoft says in its own press release. How is disconnecting all of its Windows XP and Windows Server 2003-based LiveSync customers "delivering a better product for all"? MS... you suck.
- Edited by GreendaleFault Thursday, October 21, 2010 10:12 PM
Thursday, October 21, 2010 6:57 PM -
I have to admit this blows, MS can't be this dumb. Why should we trust you and move to Live Mesh 2011? Only to be dropped again by Live Mesh 2014.
It would be like the mistress marrying a cheating husband and then being surprised when he eventually cheats on her.
Thursday, October 21, 2010 8:43 PM -
I smelled this discontinuation coming, so didn't become dependent on Live Synch.
I can understand the anger of those who now have hours or days of work to find an alternative.
An appeal to Microsoft Management. Please factor in the cost to your users of development decisions. (i.e. How many man centuries have you cost the planet.) If the mesh team had been briefed to support a reasonable range of OS's this wouldn't have happened. The cost, to Microsoft, of this will last for many years. There's a lot of us out here who have literally wasted years of our lives with technologies that get dumped OR go wrong (like this). Please don't turn people who support your products into hostiles!
Remember Raymond Chen!
Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:31 PM -
I am amazed that Microsoft would support Macintosh with the new Live Mesh, but not the huge installed XP base. Truly amazed!
XP users of Mesh and Sync are not going to suddenly upgrade to W7 because of this. They will seek other solutions.
Very disappointing.
Friday, October 22, 2010 5:14 AM -
"To deliver a better product for all our customers" is what Microsoft says in its own press release. How is disconnecting all of its Windows XP and Windows Server 2003-based LiveSync customers "delivering a better product for all"? MS... you suck.
Windows Server was never officially supported by Live Mesh.
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Friday, October 22, 2010 11:30 AMModerator -
I have to admit this blows, MS can't be this dumb. Why should we trust you and move to Live Mesh 2011? Only to be dropped again by Live Mesh 2014.
It would be like the mistress marrying a cheating husband and then being surprised when he eventually cheats on her.
That's progress. XP is ancient and insecure. It is time to move on.Yes, I've got a few machines still running XP and I can't install Live Essentials 2011 on them. I accept that. And I accept that some programs may not work on Vista 10 years from now.
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Friday, October 22, 2010 11:33 AMModerator -
An appeal to Microsoft Management. Please factor in the cost to your users of development decisions. (i.e. How many man centuries have you cost the planet.) If the mesh team had been briefed to support a reasonable range of OS's this wouldn't have happened. The cost, to Microsoft, of this will last for many years. There's a lot of us out here who have literally wasted years of our lives with technologies that get dumped OR go wrong (like this). Please don't turn people who support your products into hostiles
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Friday, October 22, 2010 11:35 AMModerator -
I am amazed that Microsoft would support Macintosh with the new Live Mesh, but not the huge installed XP base. Truly amazed!
XP users of Mesh and Sync are not going to suddenly upgrade to W7 because of this. They will seek other solutions.
Very disappointing.
Why? Only the latest builds of Mac OSX are supported. You're right, if someone doesn't want to or cannot upgrade frm XP, they will need to seek other solutions. The nice thing is that there are other solutions - some free and some paid.
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Friday, October 22, 2010 11:37 AMModerator -
That's progress. XP is ancient and insecure. It is time to move on.
Yes, I've got a few machines still running XP and I can't install Live Essentials 2011 on them. I accept that. And I accept that some programs may not work on Vista 10 years from now.
While admittedly XP has to be continually patched/updated (the globalised and fast-moving nature of viruses having changed with the move onto the web) I've never had a security issue - I totally disagree that XP is "ancient" - it is NOT ANCIENT and has a HUGE installed base which is now to be denied the bright new future in the cloud.
While we don't expect to be able to do everything that we could on Windows 7 and Live Web Apps there should be some level of 'Graceful Degradation' as there are on accessible websites and I actually don't understand how this can be - surely it's all written in C# . NET - (or whisper it JAVA) .. Are XP machines not perfectly capable of this?!
Programs never worked on Vista from year 0 let alone +10!
Time to get a google account!
Friday, October 22, 2010 10:01 PM -
I hope this was a matter for serious discussion.
The point is that much of that discussion could be avoided by forward thinking managerial action. At the start of development the team is told what OS's to support. This could be achieved with a standard list of OS's, deviations must be justified, up front. (I'm pretty sure that one issue is that code has been developed with a limited OS spectrum in mind, and is then fossilised to the chosen OS's.)
Saturday, October 23, 2010 10:29 PM -
That's WONDERFUL NEWS! I assume that because Windows Server was "never officially support by Live Mesh", the old LiveSync will still be supported for the remaining installation base of Windows Server 2003.
- Edited by GreendaleFault Monday, October 25, 2010 12:04 AM Typo
Monday, October 25, 2010 12:02 AM -
"XP is ancient and insecure"? Sounds to me like the Microsoft spinners are hard at work. I remember XP was released it was to replace the "ancient and insecure" Windows 2000. Hmmmm... why does Microsoft keep releasing insecure operating systems?
Here in New Zealand we have an expression: "Bollocks"
I have an install-base of many hundreds of XP Pro workstations across several larger clients. They choose Windows7 when buying new boxes, but the upgrade path from XP to Win7 involves serious hardware consideration. Perhaps if Microsoft could release a cut-down version of Windows7 Pro that runs on a single-core 3GHz CPU with 1GB RAM then we could make the transition with ease. They could call it "Windows 7 XP Edition".
(and you'll notice how I quietly stepped over the loose-fitting and rarely-trodden cobblestone that was once Vista).
Monday, October 25, 2010 12:18 AM -
That's WONDERFUL NEWS! I assume that because Windows Server was "never officially support by Live Mesh", the old LiveSync will still be supported for the remaining installation base of Windows Server 2003.
Don't hold your breath until 31 March 2011. <wink>
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) ~ MS MVP (IE, Mail, Security, Windows & Update Services) since 2002 ~ Disclaimer: MS MVPs neither represent nor work for MicrosoftMonday, October 25, 2010 12:29 AM -
I have to admit this blows, MS can't be this dumb. Why should we trust you and move to Live Mesh 2011? Only to be dropped again by Live Mesh 2014.
It would be like the mistress marrying a cheating husband and then being surprised when he eventually cheats on her.
That's progress. XP is ancient and insecure. It is time to move on.Yes, I've got a few machines still running XP and I can't install Live Essentials 2011 on them. I accept that. And I accept that some programs may not work on Vista 10 years from now.
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~This is the problem with that Line. as recent as 10 months ago I bought a netbook with a fresh licensed copy of XP on it from Best Buy!!! The Netbook is where I need synching and Microsoft needs to stop support 5 years AFTER they take thier last dollar of revenue from it not 12-18 months. When MS decided to head off cheap linux netbooks with a fresh round of XP licenses to OEMs.. they restarted the support clock. This is a problem for MS.. MS Draw, Abandoned, Expression Media Abandoned, MS Accounting Abandoned, Microsoft Money Abandoned, Kin Phone Abandonded. Now this trend it appears to be moving for "one versions and out" impatience that keeps people from even considering MS tools for 2-3 versions to its Core OS line.. Buy a new machine with XP and 18 months later Abandoned.
Unless MS wants to give all the XP netbook users FREE Windows 7 "netbook" upgrades this is bad treatment of a core product. And I like Microsoft product but very glad we didn't put out books on the Copy of Microsoft Accounting WE did own and paid for Quickbooks..
Monday, October 25, 2010 1:30 AM -
Here's the simple truth that I (for one) have an issue with:
1. You can't stop progress. That's life. We accept that new OS and new apps are released to make better use of new and faster hardware. Long may things continue getting better, faster, more capable, more intuitive.
2. The next release of LiveSync, now part of Live Mesh, won't run on older platforms. OK, that's fine. I accept that. So I won't benefit from the new features until I upgrade.
3. The old LiveSync currently works fine on my "ancient and insecure" Windows XP and Server 2003 platforms (spread throughout the country). I accept that it doesn't have the new-fangled whiz-bang features of Live Mesh, and that's my fault for not investing (?) in newer hardware and OS. All in good time, no doubt.
4. MY ISSUE: I am advised by Microsoft that "On March 31, 2011, Windows Live Sync will stop working". I have no choice in this matter. And I have little more than 5 months to upgrade or find an alternative.
This is FORCEWARE at its finest.
AT THE VERY LEAST, Microsoft must extend their switchover deadline until end of 2012, giving its long-term loyal customers the chance to properly address the migration of their servers and workstations. For many, this process has only just begun, having delayed bulk migration due to the Vista saga.
Please Microsoft (on bended knees), listen to your loyal customers.
- Edited by GreendaleFault Monday, October 25, 2010 1:41 AM Grammar
Monday, October 25, 2010 1:36 AM -
Here's the issue - Windows Live Sync and Live Mesh beta, both of which will cease functioning at the end of March 2011 are both *free* services. If Microsoft chooses to make a new service available for users of their latest operating systems, Vista and Windows 7, again - for free - and not for XP or any other flavor of Windows, that's their choice. Free. You didn't pay for Live Sync and Live mesh has never been a production service.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Monday, October 25, 2010 2:57 PMModerator -
Here's the issue - ... are both *free* services. .... Free. You didn't pay for Live Sync and Live mesh has never been a production service.
That point about free is an excellent one to make.
The world has become used to apparently free services more than ever before. The truth is that a paid service is typically a much better deal for the customer. It gives you some control.
Worth considering next time?
For good testers there's more to it.
For test users free as defined here is often a load of nonsense. A conscientious tester can easily spend effort worth far more than 10 years of a paid membership in what he does. Bug reports, testing time, rolling it out over a network and framing your realizations about design mistakes can eat up a lot of effort and time. (Prevent normal work from happening!) A wise product development company, nurtures it's best testers, rewards them in ways that they want and does all it can to encourage them to participate even more in future. I have no idea how much value was added by testers of these systems, but it looks from the tone of comments here that you should seriously review any inclination to get too involved in testing.
It seems that MS has taken on board attitudes formed in some lesser companies and diluted it's best talent with then. Sometimes till you can't even see the talent any more.
Monday, October 25, 2010 8:30 PM -
If you have a the old mesh beta file will it still install?
Just been to a client's and whilst installing a new windows 7 PC I noticed that it had Live Mesh (not beta). I was about to show the client how it worked as I had tested it on his other PC (XP one) yesterday which worked fine. Anyway I thought lets uninstall the beta one and install the new one just to make sure there are no compatible issues. Yes it was at this point I discovered it doesn't work.
So can it be reinstalled if I can find the file (any idea what the files name is)?
Monday, October 25, 2010 9:29 PM -
If you have a the old mesh beta file will it still install?
Just been to a client's and whilst installing a new windows 7 PC I noticed that it had Live Mesh (not beta). I was about to show the client how it worked as I had tested it on his other PC (XP one) yesterday which worked fine. Anyway I thought lets uninstall the beta one and install the new one just to make sure there are no compatible issues. Yes it was at this point I discovered it doesn't work.
So can it be reinstalled if I can find the file (any idea what the files name is)?
Yes, an existing user - LiveID already registered for Live Mesh beta - can install. Sign in at www.mesh.com and click add device on the ring, then select the OS you are installing on (Vista versions for Windows 7).-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Tuesday, October 26, 2010 11:15 AMModerator -
Here is the problem I have with this approach. I had to go through a couple of hours to get live essentials back to 2009 version because it did not work on my Vista machine. Now I cannot use Mesh, because I cannot load mesh as a stand alone product without upgrading everything else (which does not work). If you are going to force a choice to upgrade then the choice should work. What is more bundling software this way is a sure model to get people to look elsewhere. The reason it is free though is not because of the consumers, but because MS wants to get a share of the market their competitors have taken from them over the last several years. It is this approach here that caused many to look for alternatives with paid software. Now doing with free software is pushing the ones that stuck with MS to other alternatives further eroding your market share. It is just bad business.
That's my 2 cents~BJ
Thursday, October 28, 2010 4:07 PM -
Here is the problem I have with this approach. I had to go through a couple of hours to get live essentials back to 2009 version because it did not work on my Vista machine. Now I cannot use Mesh, because I cannot load mesh as a stand alone product without upgrading everything else (which does not work). If you are going to force a choice to upgrade then the choice should work. What is more bundling software this way is a sure model to get people to look elsewhere. The reason it is free though is not because of the consumers, but because MS wants to get a share of the market their competitors have taken from them over the last several years. It is this approach here that caused many to look for alternatives with paid software. Now doing with free software is pushing the ones that stuck with MS to other alternatives further eroding your market share. It is just bad business.
That's my 2 cents~BJ
You didn't state what your issue with Windows Live Essentials was, but help and support for it can be found at http://windowslivehelp.com WLE 2011 is fully supported on Vista and Windows 7.I'm not sure of your reasoning about free vs. paid, but since I don't know what Microsoft gains by making it free, I can't refute it either.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Thursday, October 28, 2010 4:48 PMModerator -
I'm just one insignificant data point, but I'm voting with my wallet on this one. Microsoft has over the past couple of years just lost my trust, with lots of strange strategic decisions. Abandoning OneCare, abandoning Microsoft Money, abandoning Live Sync for XP, I even used Windows Mobile but the new Mobile 7 does not run my old apps, so not upgrading to that either. Oh and I forgot to mention, the rot set in when I paid for a Vista upgrade, then had to reformat my hard-drive to go back to XP.
I was happily paying my annual subscroption to OneCare and to MS Money, and would happily pay a small fee for Live Sync for XP. But Microsoft just prefer to pull the plug. I just don't trust Microsoft any more. I certainly will not be using their ludicrous cloud service - how do I know they won't just pull the plug on that too, leaving my data stranded?
Thursday, October 28, 2010 5:08 PM -
Steve: You implied that we should not be so critical because it was *free* service. Well if a company wants to attract my business with a free service, but then force me to chose an option that does not work, then it is a bad business model in my estimation. I tried windowslivehelp when it was in beta (same problem) without resolution. What is more, I do not have several hours to work with MS fixing their free software (that is why I went back to WL 2009 when beta did not work). I had hoped that the bug was gone with the release of 2011, but alas it did not. There are other problems as well. Just "google it" and you will find that live essentials 2011 is replete with bugs, complaints, and problems. To announce that you are sunsetting one product in favor of another (sync to mesh) before the new product has been barely available and bugs are understood let alone fixed is poor business whether software is free or paid. MS is not developing free software as some public good. They have a goal in mind to be sure. There is a model that will lead to increased profits down the road. I am saying if it is to be a good model for future business MS needs to listen to its customers.
Again Just my opinion.
~BJ
Thursday, October 28, 2010 7:33 PM -
Stephen you're doing a valiant job holding the line here. As you've said here you're not involved in the meetings that decide these things.
This is clearly a main vein of pain, for a lot of people.
I for one would really appreciate it if I knew that this issue was in front of decision makers. Not just decision makers for this product category, but all of them. Years ago I had a sense that Microsoft was run by technical people, who were smart, and that the awesome complexity was all held in the RAM of at least one man. Result: complex and really hard decisions made and often right on the money. A spectacular achievement. Now I see signs that consumer oriented flim flam artists get too much input into decisions. (True you can get way with treating some of the mass market like morons. Here we're talking technical users and it's much harder to get away with it!)
I'd dearly like to know what's going on to improve management of product development. A post telling us what attention is being paid , would be appreciated. Dropping the veil of secrecy wouldn't be a bad idea either (I know you are not behind that veil either).
If you have some feedback on what attention is being paid, please post about it.
Thanks.
Thursday, October 28, 2010 11:54 PM -
Steve: You implied that we should not be so critical because it was *free* service. Well if a company wants to attract my business with a free service, but then force me to chose an option that does not work, then it is a bad business model in my estimation. I tried windowslivehelp when it was in beta (same problem) without resolution. What is more, I do not have several hours to work with MS fixing their free software (that is why I went back to WL 2009 when beta did not work). I had hoped that the bug was gone with the release of 2011, but alas it did not. There are other problems as well. Just "google it" and you will find that live essentials 2011 is replete with bugs, complaints, and problems. To announce that you are sunsetting one product in favor of another (sync to mesh) before the new product has been barely available and bugs are understood let alone fixed is poor business whether software is free or paid. MS is not developing free software as some public good. They have a goal in mind to be sure. There is a model that will lead to increased profits down the road. I am saying if it is to be a good model for future business MS needs to listen to its customers.
Again Just my opinion.
~BJ
BJ, you still didn't tell me what your issue was. Trust me, I know that *every* upgrade is replete with problems. I encountered a problem with the removal of Live mesh beta from one machine and on another Messenger didn't install properly. I fixed both, though. I know that some people can and will have problems upgrading, installing, etc. and others just hate change.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Friday, October 29, 2010 11:27 AMModerator -
Thanks, Mike.
If I had insight into those details I would not be allowed to reveal it. So, I don't know the specifics, but I do know that the decisions made were the result of many long discussions, lots of analysis, and some disagreement - as all decisions of this sort are made.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Friday, October 29, 2010 11:29 AMModerator -
Steve: I am sorry I feel like I have hijacked this thread. I think you hit the nail on the head. Does MS want to attract consumers that have little or no technical expertise? They are going to have to change their business model then. You have the expertise and can fix problems. The average computer user it is a mystery. Their mindset is if it does not work buy a new computer. Change is not bad if it improves the previous condition. But when change makes things worse (eg elimanting the majority of users of windows in the business world xp ability to use your product, bundled programs that do not play nice together Essentials Live 2011) then yes people hate that kind of change.
Thank you for listening to the rant. I appreiciate your willingness to hear us out. . BTW I am still reluctant to upgrade, but if I had a moderator like you helping me then perhaps I would...
~BJ
Friday, October 29, 2010 3:07 PM -
You're welcome, BJ. The rant is okay and I understand. When things go wrong, it is very frustrating.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Friday, October 29, 2010 4:52 PMModerator -
Why can't microsoft just keep windows live sync alive. It runs on Vista and Windows 7 too. I use both 'mesh' en 'sync', they live happily together in my tiny system as I have three machines with XP, Vista and Windows 7.
Mesh is better but why shut down the good old live sync. That much costs will not be involved for a company like Microsoft.
Mr Jobs allways says: to get a customer is the easy part, to keep the customer is the hard part....
Eric
Sunday, October 31, 2010 10:48 PM -
Having a bit more of an overview of development in both small shops (40 developers) and knowing folks at MSFT, you really have to be there.
First off on the XP issue. We have to kiss it goodbye folks. Many resisted it in the first place just like the did Vista.
Those who embraced Vista, enjoyed the beauty and aroma of the rose of Vista and put up with it's thorns.
By doing this we reaped the advantages of a new code base, more security and were ready for Win7 in many ways.
So don't fault MSFT for not spending $$$ on something that is two OSs back. When your a small shop and a client wants a piece of software to work on Win98, it's problem.
Right now I have a client that wants it's NT 4.0 server and access 2002 macros to work in 2011.
How would you advise them. Spend money on keeping a 12 year old server running and keep the code working on a insecure system?
Or move to something better?
I enjoyed Live mesh beta, and used it for collaboration for a book I was involved in. Worked great.
Am I pleased that it will not work on XP,no. But I understand. As for MAC, it will be a smaller base so I'm not concerned with them, since many folks run virtual WIN7 machines on MAC hardware.
There is still some good functionality in Live mesh and it's free, so let's see if we can deal with "What IS" and craft solutions with it.
/:>
Curtis J SpanburghMonday, November 1, 2010 9:39 PM -
First off on the XP issue. We have to kiss it goodbye folks. Many resisted it in the first place just like the did Vista.
Good points Curtis.
This debate is framed as XP because of the title of the OP. I take it as a wider debate. Windows 2003 is part of it. Server OS's last longer and are more important to some people. Synch is, in my view, especially about servers and on this count it's a fail. Some postings above mention this.
I'm also concerned when I see a company dissing it's own products. I've been exposed to a few of those, some dead wrong. Salesmen getting too much power will distort the truth!
Monday, November 1, 2010 11:37 PM -
It's true that when we see a "business decision" made and it's an obvious hard one, it's going to hurt.
Server OSs are more entrenched. Exchange is even harder to move forward. It's part of the IT world.
Any MVP can tell you that our meetings with Microsoft Product Groups have been "interesting".
I also see a great opportunitiy for a third party firm to create these products. We know what will happen then and in the end we will get what works for us.
I don't like distorting the truth at all. If any sales folks are reading this Please know your products and be up front about reality and cost.
In the past I had one sales person tell me "Don't tell them how much hardware they are going to have to buy to deploy this product".
The result is a decision maker that is screaming at the technical people for what the sales person said.
Sales Professionals. Please be real. Trust is the best thing you can sell right now. Deliver value and trust. Let's see what all this clamor can do for the next round of decisions Microsoft makes. Things can change. It is after all software.
/:>
Curtis J SpanburghTuesday, November 2, 2010 3:52 AM -
I take it as a wider debate. Windows 2003 is part of it. Server OS's last longer and are more important to some people. Synch is, in my view, especially about servers and on this count it's a fail. Some postings above mention this.
I would just like to point out that Windows Server 2003 was *never* a supported platform for Live Mesh beta. Yes, people got it to work, but it was not an intended platform for the beta and required a workaround to get it installed and running.
Server 2003 is a strange beast. It is very different than Windows Server 2000, which was an update to NT4.0. Windows Server 2008, on the other hand, is based on the Vista/Win7 code base. Being similar, makes Server 2008 easier to code for and is why Windows Live Mesh will readily run on it along with Vista/7.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Tuesday, November 2, 2010 12:54 PMModerator -
I wonder how some of you MVP's got your status with these comments. What people are primarily upset about is that in spite of being a free service, it was taken away. The obvious reasons that we can all see here is that MS wants people to get with newer operating systems. To the users and most others with any level of technical savvy, this a problem to those who have become dependent on it, or have older computers. It's entirely possible to simply leave the system in place that already worked for XP users. The fact is you can still purchase new computers with XP installed, from major brands like HP and Dell and XP's support doesn't end until 2014.
Some of you really pull off this elitist attitude when you tow the line of get over it and upgrade. You act as if people should stop whining and go out and buy a new computer. The two truths here are that MS wants people to upgrade and that many people don't have a compelling reason to do so, or they simply can't. What's caught in the middle is a feature that MS once offered for free, and then took away, simply because it's been re-branded and a check in place to make sure it doesn't install on XP. This was done on purpose and is nothing new.
Tuesday, November 2, 2010 4:05 PM -
I wonder how some of you MVP's got your status with these comments. What people are primarily upset about is that in spite of being a free service, it was taken away. The obvious reasons that we can all see here is that MS wants people to get with newer operating systems. To the users and most others with any level of technical savvy, this a problem to those who have become dependent on it, or have older computers. It's entirely possible to simply leave the system in place that already worked for XP users. The fact is you can still purchase new computers with XP installed, from major brands like HP and Dell and XP's support doesn't end until 2014.
Some of you really pull off this elitist attitude when you tow the line of get over it and upgrade. You act as if people should stop whining and go out and buy a new computer. The two truths here are that MS wants people to upgrade and that many people don't have a compelling reason to do so, or they simply can't. What's caught in the middle is a feature that MS once offered for free, and then took away, simply because it's been re-branded and a check in place to make sure it doesn't install on XP. This was done on purpose and is nothing new.
ms_mike, I'm not sure where you are seeing any "elitist attitude." I take offense at that charge.Since we are in the Live Mesh beta forum, I'll focus on that. Live Mesh *beta* was never released. It has always been a beta. It was never a free offering for anyone, nor was it a paid offering. Support was handled through the forums and at an earlier time via bug reports and email. When Microsoft released Windows Live Mesh, they could have immediately closed down Live Mesh beta - in fact they could have closed it down long before, since development was happening on the new version. To keep multiple services operating in order to support XP would be very costly. The reality is that there are 3rd party products that can be used to perform remote access and file sync that will work with a variety of operating systems. They aren't free, though.
I am fully aware of the reason people are upset. I am fully aware that people cannot upgrade their computers or operating systems and cannot afford a new PC. I do not expect Microsoft to provide a free service or product to older operating systems. there are people still running Windows 95 and Windows NT and Windows 2000. I would not be surprised to find someone happily running Windows 3.0. The fact that people continue to run unsupported operating systems doesn't mean the Microsoft should provide them with the same additional services and programs being given to those using the latest 2 operating system versions. And, I expect that when Windows 8 is released, there will be perks for users of it or Windows 7 that will not be available to users of Vista.
Your final two sentences are speculation on motive. It isn't fact, but even if it were, that is Microsoft's right in a free market economy. Windows Live Mesh was called Windows Live Sync during the beta and it was an upgrade to the existing Windows Live Sync - built on the architecture of live Mesh beta, but dependent on features not available in XP, to the best of my knowledge. It was rebranded as Windows Live Mesh at release. Windows Live Essentials 2009, with the exception of Windows Live Sync (and perhaps Family Safety, though I am not sure), will continue to work on XP. The web services of Windows Live are available to all - even Mac and Linux users.
You are welcome to use Windows XP as long as you wish. Eventually, the benefits will dwindle more and more. It will be unsupported and new software and hardware will fail to work with it.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Tuesday, November 2, 2010 5:27 PMModerator -
I wonder how some of you MVP's got your status with these comments.
Read my sig.
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) ~ MS MVP (IE, Mail, Security, Windows & Update Services) since 2002 ~ Disclaimer: MS MVPs neither represent nor work for MicrosoftTuesday, November 2, 2010 6:01 PM -
ms_mike, I'm not sure where you are seeing any elitist attitude.
"That's progress. XP is ancient and insecure. It is time to move on."That would be a good place to start, along with another MVP telling people to "kiss it goodbye" and using the words "beauty and aroma of the rose of Vista". !? Everyone one should just be a good little boy and girl and go get an upgrade? Because of your opinion? MS is officially supporting XP for years still, but unofficially can't kill it quick enough. Your sentence supports this and as to your speculation on my motive, your own words and the words of another MVP illustrate my point. It's just plain old observation.
I wasn't talking about mesh either. I was talking about Windows Live Sync that has worked on XP for almost two years and beyond if you count its FolderShare roots. I doubt most who are upset here care if XP get's "Mesh" or not. They just want the Sync app as it worked before. It would be similar to announcing that Internet Explorer 8 will no longer support XP and users would have to remove it. I look at it differently because of that.
BTW, I use Win7 and Live mesh. I can just empathize with the people who are upset better than you.
Tuesday, November 2, 2010 10:03 PM -
I don't see any of these statements as "elitist" at all and those that I made were certainly not intended to be elitist.
If your issue is with Windows Live Sync, you really should be complaining in the appropriate forum, not here.
Who can empathize "better" is a matter of opinion, I suppose.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Wednesday, November 3, 2010 11:31 AMModerator -
Even though many disagree with moving on to a new OS at times, there are those of us who see compelling reasons to move ahead. Our experience in the trenches, is passed on to forum readers.
I maintain an XP laptop, a 64 bit Vista Ultimate and two Win7 machines for my desktop needs. Along with a range of Windows Servers, I have to my nature of being a consultant continue to be a multiOS person. Never mind non MSFT OS platforms. Some programs will never have their code updated. Some printers will never get drivers for use with new Operating systems. Some of us are just use to the change and we live in a constant state of flux.
That "State" is what I see as upsetting to many. Software has been manufactured for public use for a very short time on the earth. So we still don't have it mastered yet. In contrast Mankind has been building bridges and buildings for centuries and the standards are more constant.
So the answer I come up with is "Move ahead". Still , I have found great use for what could be refered to as ancient computer knowledge. It has served to get clients out of a mess, time and time again when the more modern technology failed. What I don't like is hardware vendors selling machines with chip sets that will not support every MS or other Operating systems. When hardware vendors decide what operating system will run on their hardware , you really have a problem. I'm not talking about 32/64 bit issues. I'm speaking about chipsets not supporting DOS or Linux. Or Server vendors who change 1100 bucks to replace a 20GB drive in an "older system".
Now that hurts people.
Curtis J SpanburghWednesday, November 3, 2010 11:58 AM -
I can see why MS would move on and have to create a new product that services only current OS versions. What I haven't seen a good explanation for is why it is necessary to abandon the Sync product that so many have come to rely on. What's the rationalization MS is dumping on us for that?Wednesday, November 10, 2010 3:19 PM
-
I can see why MS would move on and have to create a new product that services only current OS versions. What I haven't seen a good explanation for is why it is necessary to abandon the Sync product that so many have come to rely on. What's the rationalization MS is dumping on us for that?
Windows Live Sync was updated, not abandoned. Yes, that's the same thing if functionality that you relied on in Sync doesn't exist in the current version of Windows Live Mesh.For discussion of the new Windows Live Mesh (formerly Sync), (as well as the released Live Sync version) go here:
http://windowslivehelp.com/forums.aspx?productid=24
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Wednesday, November 10, 2010 3:54 PMModerator -
I can see why MS would move on and have to create a new product that services only current OS versions. What I haven't seen a good explanation for is why it is necessary to abandon the Sync product that so many have come to rely on. What's the rationalization MS is dumping on us for that?
Windows Live Sync was updated, not abandoned. Yes, that's the same thing if functionality that you relied on in Sync doesn't exist in the current version of Windows Live Mesh.For discussion of the new Windows Live Mesh (formerly Sync), (as well as the released Live Sync version) go here:
http://windowslivehelp.com/forums.aspx?productid=24
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~First, let me say a word of appreciation to Steve and the MVP's who contribute here.
I would agree with wworx that MS is abandoning sync. Sync (formerly FolderShare) has existed as separate software alongside Mesh for some time. The notification email mentions that this was "confusing to users." I know of no one here who is or was confused.
What MS has done is to buy a product, FolderShare (which did, at one point, have a paid option), turn it into a free service, change the name to Windows Live Sync, and then later, discontinue this service. I would in fact pay for this service, but I doubt if MS will license it back to anyone as it would "compete" with Mesh. This is in my opinion a strong-arm tactic of a mega corporation; buy out the competition, and then shut it down.
I admit that I have no idea how much back-end resources are required to make Sync work, but couldn't MS continue to support it? Or even close it to new users? As customers eventually move off XP (as they have off of ME/98/95) the number of users would decrease and the resources could be reduced, then eliminated. A gradual, rather than instant shutdown. Or at least, return the license to someone else to run the same service, for free or for a fee.
Pretty please?
Thursday, November 11, 2010 4:40 AM -
Thanks for the kind words. ;-)
In the text you quoted from me, I stated that Sync has not been abandoned. It was updated and renamed.
When FolderShare became Windows Live Sync, it was pretty much a complete rewrite of the code. At the same time, Live Mesh beta was in development on a different platform. The architecture of that platform was apparently deemed to be superior for any number of reasons, so it was chosen as the foundation of yet another rewrite of the Sync code. It was going to retain the name of Windows Live Sync, but for unknown reasons they decided to keep the Live Mesh name alive and eliminate the Live Sync name. In any case, Live Sync 2009 and Windows Live Mesh 2011 are both not FolderShare, but an evolution of that technology.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~- Proposed as answer by Curt Spanburgh MVP ModeratorMVP Thursday, November 11, 2010 1:49 PM
Thursday, November 11, 2010 12:27 PMModerator -
If you want FREE substitutes that work REALLY WELL on XP, try:
- Dropbox for file sharing: you get a free 2 Gb account that you can share among as many PCs (and Macs and Linux boxes) as you like, and it just works. It caches locally in case of connection problem, and re-syncs on reconnect. I've been using it for months, and I'm surprised by how well it works. Just use Explorer to drag and drop (or double-click on) files. Also gives you a Public folder where every file has a URL, and allows sharing between/among users. You can pay for 50 or 100 Gb, if you need more.
- LogMeIn for screen sharing: even at my university, where the network management is unusually tight, it connects every time, with no problem. Once connected, it works very similar to, and as well as, Windows Remote Login. It has more controls and is almost as fast. Unlike GoToMyPC, it is completely free forever (or the last 10 years, anyway) as long as you don't need their "advanced functionality" (like file sharing, and maybe printer sharing). It does transport audio.
Monday, November 15, 2010 1:26 PM -
Yeah, I think I'll be going with Dropbox. Do you know if Dropbox can sync read-only files? Another thing that Windows Live Mesh that Sync and Foldershare did is sync read-only files. Why kill this functionality also? Why are you intentionally decreasing functionality and user base? it's like you want Mesh to fail.
- Proposed as answer by Harry of Fairfield Wednesday, November 17, 2010 10:55 PM
- Unproposed as answer by Stephen BootsMVP, Moderator Thursday, November 18, 2010 12:35 PM
Tuesday, November 16, 2010 9:06 PM -
Thanks, Jay, for the suggestions. I may have to go to dropbox, but for me it has two drawbacks.
- The 2GB limit; I'm keeping my music library in sync across 3 machines, and it's more like 8 GB. If I eliminate the music, I still don't know if 2GB is enough.
- I do not want my files synced to the cloud. FolderShare/Live Sync is just syncing them between my PC's, but they are not stored anywhere except on machines that I own (or my department owns at work) and have physical access to. Is there another alternative that does this?
Thursday, November 18, 2010 3:03 AM -
I manage over 30 laptops which were running Live Sync happily.
Live Mesh has been SUCH a disappointment in particular:
1. No support XP - what on earth were Microsoft thinking?
2. Not showing activity like Live Sycn
3. Limiting a share to 9 people - once again completely nuts
4. EATING system resources and showing resource errors
5. Completely filling up recycle bin constantly
6. Not allowing for an easy change of name for a folder
I am gradually moving to dropbox and will be delighted to pay them for a service.
I would like to thank Microsoft for the gift of foldershare and then live sync for all those years. Such a shame to take it away in April 2011.
Monday, December 6, 2010 5:56 PM -
I would like to thank Microsoft for the gift of foldershare...
FolderShare was available long before MS acquired it a few years ago.
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear) ~ MS MVP (IE, Mail, Security, Windows & Update Services) since 2002 ~ Disclaimer: MS MVPs neither represent nor work for MicrosoftTuesday, December 7, 2010 7:39 PM -
Just when I actually begin using Microsoft services again after many years of no longer even being on my radar, they do this. Oh well, it's back to Microsoft not even being a last choice, but no choice at all. (I'd even started using Hotmail again.) Thank goodness for Google and Dropbox.
Edit: Add Opera to those two. Microsoft, believe it or not, I can live without you just fine. You're not the only game in town, and far from being the best.
Exactly my sentiments ... and I was just starting to check out live office, and hotmail again.MS is making a business choice it thinks will increase its profits. It would appear that it wants to re-assign resources that are now helping people avoid spending money on OS upgrades.
I believe MS is making a mistake. It is ____ off people in a position to influence or decide on IT purchase.
People will eventually upgrade. So on the one hand - this mistake will not topple MS, on the other hand since they will upgrade anyway, MS could have continued to support XP and gain good-will and positive reputation for a change.
For me, I guess it's dropbox - and what do you know ... I'll be able to sync my linux machines also ... and I'll be saving time since I won't be playing around with all that MS live stuff after-all.
take care all.
Sunday, December 12, 2010 10:23 AM -
The difference is that OSX and Snow Leopard really are different operating systems, designed for different machines. Still, I'm sure OSX could run live mesh just fine if Microsoft chose to support it. XP and Vista are designed to run on exactly the same machines, and Microsoft owns both of those; one would think that implied a committment to supporting those OSs for as long as possible. I feel the 'slap in the face' quite acutely because I paid Microsoft extra $$ for the priviledge of 'downgrading' a vista machine to XP. Fortunately, I discovered dropbox. It's a better solution all around.Wednesday, December 22, 2010 3:51 PM
-
The difference is that OSX and Snow Leopard really are different operating systems, designed for different machines. Still, I'm sure OSX could run live mesh just fine if Microsoft chose to support it. XP and Vista are designed to run on exactly the same machines, and Microsoft owns both of those; one would think that implied a committment to supporting those OSs for as long as possible. I feel the 'slap in the face' quite acutely because I paid Microsoft extra $$ for the priviledge of 'downgrading' a vista machine to XP. Fortunately, I discovered dropbox. It's a better solution all around.
XP and Vista/7 are *not* the same OS, just as the various iterations of OSX are not the same, perhaps even moreso.-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Wednesday, December 22, 2010 4:43 PMModerator -
If you think a Windows XP client for the new Live Mesh (aka Live Sync) is needed, please join our group at Facebook:
Wednesday, January 5, 2011 3:17 PM -
OMG... MS you did it..again! There is no hope! Need to move...and NEVER come back!!!Monday, January 10, 2011 6:20 AM
-
Another wish for a Windows XP version to be released! I am really considering the move to SugarSync. I can get a free 5GB account there and can pay for more storage if I need. They have Windows (including XP), Mac, Windows Mobile, iPhone, Android, and Blackberry clients. If Microsoft would just release a version for XP, they would keep me from moving over to another product for now.Monday, January 31, 2011 7:35 PM
-
If you get 5 gigs for free, I'd make the switch as I don't anticipate an XP client for Windows Live Mesh. :-(
I happened upon a mention of SugarSync this evening as I downloaded an updated version of a sync program I use locally, GoodSync. I saw that it was a pay service, but didn't know that there was a free base service.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Tuesday, February 1, 2011 12:27 AMModerator -
SugarSync just upped their free service to 5GB and unlimited devices last November. They are trying to pull Live Mesh beta (and Windows Live Mesh) and Dropbox users. If I make the switch, I'll reply with my thoughts.
https://www.sugarsync.com/free/
https://www.sugarsync.com/blog/2010/11/10/get-more-free-storage/
-JaredTuesday, February 1, 2011 6:07 PM -
Thanks for that info - I'm sure that there are quite a few XP users of Live Mesh beta who will be interested and helped by your post.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Wednesday, February 2, 2011 11:52 AMModerator -
WOW! That makes me feel better that older Mac users will be screwed along with XP users... yeah, NOT!!!
Wednesday, February 9, 2011 11:35 PM -
Came across this link today--a possible replacement that may work for you if you can set up an always-on server with a public IP address. Seems small companies can provide for free what MS will not.
Thursday, February 10, 2011 1:05 AM -
Time to lock this tthread after having deleted several posts made within the last 24 hours.
I know that people are unhappy about the loss of Live Mesh for XP (and older Macs, and mobile), considering the promise that was shown during the course of the beta, but this thread already has enough suggestions for alternatives and complaining isn't going to bring back support for XP. We can speculate all we want on the reasons for these decisions, but the decision was Microsoft's. If you want to complain, please submit feedback at http://feedback.live.com -- select Windows Live Mesh from the list.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:42 PMModerator