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Is there any certification for Windows Forms? WPF? VB.NET? RRS feed

  • Question

  • I was just looking at the new Visual Studio 2012 certifications and I noticed that it seems to be either "Windows Store Apps" or web apps. Are there going to be any certifications for desktop development on Visual Studio 2012? I can't see any mention of Windows Forms or WPF.

    All the previous certifications are being "retired" in six months' time (which seems to be quicker than usual). Does this mean there won't be any Microsoft certification for desktop application development? Is Microsoft trying to encourage people to abandon the desktop in favour of Windows 8-style apps?

    Also, not that this affects me personally, but I can't see any mention of VB.NET either. Is that being taken out back and shot too?

    Thanks,

    Paul

    Saturday, November 10, 2012 1:43 PM

Answers

  • Hi,

    FYI, none of the Visual Studio 2012 exams will be available in VB.NET. You will only be able to take these exams in C# or HTML5/JavaScript.

    I know that there was some discussion at Microsoft Learning a while ago with regards to Windows Desktop (non-Windows Store app) development but I am not aware of any efforts to develop related exams.


    Mike Corkery, MCT, MVP (Office Systems), MCSD (Windows Store Apps), MCITP, MCPD, MSF, etc. Please do not forget to click “Vote as Helpful” if any post helps you and "Mark as Answer”if it solves the issue.

    • Marked as answer by PaulHunter72 Sunday, November 11, 2012 10:30 PM
    Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:50 PM
  • Hi Paul,

    I suspect that it is just that most people who are taking developer exams are taking the C# version.  This makes it harder to justify the costs associated with developing both C# and VB.NET versions of exams.

    With regards to lack of desktop development exams for VS 2012, I do not have an official answer. If I had to make an educated guess, I think that Microsoft is hoping that the Windows 8 platform and Windows Store Apps really take off so they are spotlighting Windows Store app development (including certifications) wherever possible.


    Mike Corkery, MCT, MVP (Office Systems), MCSD (Windows Store Apps), MCITP, MCPD, MSF, etc. Please do not forget to click “Vote as Helpful” if any post helps you and "Mark as Answer”if it solves the issue.

    • Marked as answer by Mr. Wharty Monday, November 19, 2012 11:17 AM
    Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:09 PM

All replies

  • Hi Paul,

    like you said, there are no exams for desktop development yet, but I think they will be released soon. With that you should also be able to do this exams in VB.NET. The Windows 8 app development certifications are currently just for C# and JavaScript, buth the new web development exams should be also available in VB.NET.


    Best Regards. When you see answers and helpful posts, please click Vote As Helpful, Propose As Answer, and/or Mark As Answer. This helps us build a healthy and positive community.

    @Horizon_Net | Blog

    • Marked as answer by PaulHunter72 Saturday, November 10, 2012 8:35 PM
    • Unmarked as answer by PaulHunter72 Sunday, November 11, 2012 10:30 PM
    Saturday, November 10, 2012 5:14 PM
    Answerer
  • Hi,

    FYI, none of the Visual Studio 2012 exams will be available in VB.NET. You will only be able to take these exams in C# or HTML5/JavaScript.

    I know that there was some discussion at Microsoft Learning a while ago with regards to Windows Desktop (non-Windows Store app) development but I am not aware of any efforts to develop related exams.


    Mike Corkery, MCT, MVP (Office Systems), MCSD (Windows Store Apps), MCITP, MCPD, MSF, etc. Please do not forget to click “Vote as Helpful” if any post helps you and "Mark as Answer”if it solves the issue.

    • Marked as answer by PaulHunter72 Sunday, November 11, 2012 10:30 PM
    Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:50 PM
  • That's very interesting. I'm a C# developer myself, so the lack of VB doesn't affect me, but I found it odd not to see VB mentioned. In the past, Microsoft certification and training seem to have treated C# and VB.NET equally.

    Have Microsoft given any official indication of why desktop development and VB.NET have been overlooked? Are they now officially deprecated?

    Sunday, November 11, 2012 10:35 PM
  • Hi Paul,

    I suspect that it is just that most people who are taking developer exams are taking the C# version.  This makes it harder to justify the costs associated with developing both C# and VB.NET versions of exams.

    With regards to lack of desktop development exams for VS 2012, I do not have an official answer. If I had to make an educated guess, I think that Microsoft is hoping that the Windows 8 platform and Windows Store Apps really take off so they are spotlighting Windows Store app development (including certifications) wherever possible.


    Mike Corkery, MCT, MVP (Office Systems), MCSD (Windows Store Apps), MCITP, MCPD, MSF, etc. Please do not forget to click “Vote as Helpful” if any post helps you and "Mark as Answer”if it solves the issue.

    • Marked as answer by Mr. Wharty Monday, November 19, 2012 11:17 AM
    Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:09 PM
  • So the equivalent of:

    MCPD on Microsoft Visual Studio 2010
    Windows Developer 4—for developers who build rich client applications for the Windows Forms platform by using the Microsoft .NET Framework 4.

    is 

    MCSD: Windows Store Apps Using C#

    And we should not be waiting for another certificate to come online? (Or if there is one coming it is 6/12 months away?).

    As someone new to the certificate system, the lack of clarity about this is terrible. My company does not, and will never, develop apps for the windows app store or the web, our software just can't work on them, so they are unlikely to support earning certificates that are focused on just the app store. 
    Monday, November 19, 2012 9:53 AM
  • As someone at a purely VB.NET development house, I'd really like to know if VB.NET certification, even for Windows Store apps is coming.  We regularly update to the current certifications and have developed all the way from VB6 through 1.1, 2.0, 3.5, and 4.0 in VB.NET.  Not having the ability to get those certifications in VB diminishes the new releases somewhat, and it seems pointless to be certified for a language we won't use (C#).
    Wednesday, November 21, 2012 5:25 AM
  • I completely agree.  We are in a similar situation here.  We produce a large desktop/client/server application for many corporate clients and do most of our development in VB.net.

    For us it seems pointless to be certified for a language (C#) we don't/won't use and for a deployment method that is not helpful to us (the windows store).
    I can definitely see for smaller applications that the windows store is a great resource, but it just does not seem appropriate to us.
    To me it seems strange that they sell/promote a full featured language but offer no certifications for it.

    For right now it seems that there is no valid upgrade path that we can follow, or have new developers get certified in.

    I hope to hear some good news soon about changes on this front, but I am not going to hold my breath.


    • Edited by MD.seradex Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:40 PM
    Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:39 PM
  • 6 Months later and there are still no certifications (let alone study material) for Windows Forms, ADO.NET, WCF, WPF, etc. on Visual Studio 2012.

    Microsoft appears to have lost interest in the desktop, ignoring the thousands of developers who continue to deliver in-house desktop applications for their employers. In the meantime WPF functionality "out of the box" is still not quite mature enough to do anything more serious than single-screen applications. What a waste of a promising technology.

    After almost 15 years of continuous learning and always working towards my "next" MS certification I am afraid that I will have to switch off. So sad

    Thursday, June 6, 2013 7:46 PM
  • Hi,

    There is no individual exam for some of the technologies that you mention. The current set of VS 2012 exams does certainly test knowledge of all of these technologies. Some of the differences you may see from the past is in approach. The current set of exams is more role based. You can certify as a web developer or Windows Store app developer. For each exam, you may see a variety of related technologies that would be needed for someone in that role.

    It is true that there are no "classic" desktop application certifications for VS 2012. Microsoft made a decision to focus on the Windows 8 related technologies. The certifications for VS 2010 are still available. As a matter of fact, they are refreshed regularly to keep them current.

    Even though there are no related exams for desktop applications with VS 2012, Microsoft is certainly supporting and enhancing the capabilities in VS 2012 to allow users to build desktop applications more efficiently than ever before.


    Mike Corkery, MCT, MVP (Office Systems), MCSD (Windows Store Apps), MCITP, MCPD, MSF, etc. Please do not forget to click “Vote as Helpful” if any post helps you and "Mark as Answer”if it solves the issue.

    Thursday, June 6, 2013 9:55 PM
  • I agree with mosaic.

    It does not seem to me that certifying either as a Web developer or a Windows Store app developer are really suited to the hardcore developers like us that work on large desktop applications. 

    It is highly unlikely that our application would ever be made available via the Windows Store so that certification does not seem to apply.  It would be similar to Great Plains being made available in the Windows Store.
    Also, 95% of our development is in thick client applications so the Web certification does not really apply there either.  While web development has its place, I do not think it is really best suited for the core functionality of large applications.

    I am highly surprised that Microsoft Certification seems to be ignoring what I believe to be the core of its development users.  It is not like Visual Studio is a $20 app that anyone can buy and just use.  It is sufficiently expensive such that only those who really need this kind of environment would purchase it.  People like hardcore LAN developers.

    It is also quite disappointing that they still have no VB Certification for VS2012.  Even though Microsoft has said many times that VB is important to them and will be continued to be supported and improved, this seems like their certification department is saying that VB is irrelevant and should be discontinued.

    Shaggie

    • Edited by MD.seradex Thursday, June 6, 2013 10:27 PM
    Thursday, June 6, 2013 10:20 PM
  • @Mike Corkery
    If the exams are more focused on roles, then again they ignore the in-house developer. In my current role as "the developer and accidental DBA" in our team I spend much of my time on non-trivial scripts (CMD, PowerShell, SQL, VBS) that automate routine and not-so-routine tasks. And yes, for some tasks we have a desktop application (website has been ruled out).

    After getting SQL Server and C#/data access certifications I am now focusing on VS 2012 and WPF. It is a pity that I will not be able to use a certification firstly as my learning vehicle, and secondly to prove to a future employer that I did it.

    Here is a quote from the MCPD learning page:
    http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/mcpd-certification.aspx#fbid=2YEnu_jbvXY:
    "MCPD certifications will not be updated for versions later than Visual Studio 2010, and your MCPD certification will decline in value as companies move to newer versions of our products."

    That does not encourage me to go for older certs - quite the contrary

    Friday, June 7, 2013 9:53 AM
  • I agree with Mosaic and Shaggee, It's very easy to see that the current approach of Windows 8/8.1 is not moving towards enterprise level software. I also work for a company that has it's on windows forms application and it's moving soon to WPF. I'm very disappointed that Microsoft's current certification approach is completely biased to small narrow-minded store apps. 

    If we take as an example Office 2013, (correct me if I'm wrong), surely this product is not a windows store app (although you can find it in the app store, it doesn't launch like an app, it doesn't look like an app and it doesn't uninstall like an app). So, if Microsoft thinks a bit beyond their current approach, would they not see that there are pieces of software that do not work like apps and are developed differently?

    I hope I'm not changing the topic, but is there someone from Microsoft that can officially tell us what is the right direction big companies should take to upgrade their current windows forms/wpf in-house desktop application in the future? (and I wouldn't accept a "you can convert your enterprise desktop application to a mini app and publish it to the App Store" as an answer).

    Providing we have a satisfactory answer to the question, will Microsoft publish certifications exams that answer to the need to test skills about enterprise level desktop application development, following this approach? 


    David

    Wednesday, November 20, 2013 12:45 PM
  • I just left a comment about my concerns here: http://borntolearn.mslearn.net/btl/b/weblog/archive/2013/06/18/the-real-reason-developers-should-get-certified.aspx#fbid=8YZRRQPpuIO 
    I suggest others do the same as that might get additional exposure since that link is available directly from the main developer certification page.

    P.S.  I would think that much of the evaluation of the user's answers to the certification exams is automated so it seems odd to me that there is any significant added expense to having VB.net exams since actually both C# and VB are converted to IL, and for the most part, one can convert between the two languages.  It would seem to me that this would make it almost trivial to have an exam be made available in either language (or other languages for that matter).

    Shaggee


    • Edited by MD.seradex Wednesday, September 24, 2014 10:58 PM
    Wednesday, November 20, 2013 3:56 PM
  • Hey, guys.

    I want to point out some important facts that can easily be overlooked by developers pouring over the latest developer certification program.

    There currently is a VS 2012 exam that tests developers on ADO.NET, XML, WCF, EF, Web API, web deployment, and (yeah, I know) Azure. Take a look at the skills measured in the horribly-named 70-487: Developing Windows Azure and Web Services

    Microsoft is still recommending that developers create enterprise solutions using Web, WinForms/WPF, and Win8/WP8 native apps. Here is an interesting article based on Microsoft's June, 2013 .NET Technology Guide for Business Applications. Unfortunately, the Microsoft Certification team is unaware of Microsoft's own recommended development strategies for .NET developers creating desktop applications, so we suffer!

    .NET developers can earn Microsoft Specialist certification titles based on C# or HTML5/CSS3/JavaScript. These certification titles do not require you to take the storefront app developer exams to earn them.

    Specifically, if you pass 70-480: Programming in HTML5 with JavaScript and CSS3, you earn the title Programming in HTML5 with JavaScript and CSS3 Specialist. Likewise, you can pass 70-483: Programming in C# to earn the title Programming in C# Specialist

    IMPORTANT: The 70-480 or 70-483 exams do not have any questions related to store-front apps.


    Best wishes, Davin Mickelson

    Thursday, November 21, 2013 7:22 AM
    Answerer
  • Is there any official response from Microsoft to why they are leaving VB.net behind (or effectively ignoring it) in certification paths?

    David

    Friday, February 7, 2014 2:18 PM
  • I suspect the decision came down to cost of exam question development and past demand for VB exams.

    Exam questions are expensive. Developing twice as many questions for a MCSD exam that is not nearly in demand as much as the MCSA/MCSE exams may not have been cost effective. I am guessing that most developers pursued C# with earlier .NET exams because the market prefers C# developers, which is a shame. Microsoft also probably considered how many people chose C# over VB while taking the MCAD/MCSD/MCTS/MCPD exams for .NET 2.0/3.5/4.0.

    HR hiring managers today will still insist on asking prospective employees if they are C# or VB; it's still not okay for them to just describe themselves as .NET developers on their resumes! As well, shops that are using VB have a much tougher time finding/hiring VBers whereas C# developers are much more commonly available. Many shops are slowly converting their projects from VB to C# for this reason alone. As well, it is also easier to convert Java developers to C# versus VB.

    Yes - we .NET developers know that the languages have pretty much evened out during the past 12 years, with C# actually being the language catching up to its 23 year old counterpart, VB! VB still can't do "unsafe" coding, but other than that, with the dropping on the underscore line continuation character, they are even now! Thanks for joining the party, C#, with your .NET 4.0 optional parameters (finally!) and .NET 2.0 static classes. BTW - C# static classes are still "wordier" than VB Modules, requiring every member to also be declared as static. I have to mention this because C# developers continue to tell us how much "wordier" VB is over C# - ha!

    Besides, the best VB and C# developers today are quite used to transposing source code between the languages. I bet every VBer out there worth their salt also works with many C# code examples found on the Internet and converts them to VB - perhaps on a daily basis! The differences found when comparing C# to VB is not like comparing French to Spanish. It's much closer. Good VB developers shouldn't have that much trouble with the C#-based exams. Learn the curly braces, semicolons, constructors, and map the VB keywords to the C# keywords.

    This is all speculation on my part. I am not a Microsoft employee. These are just my opinions.

    Good luck!


    Best wishes, Davin Mickelson

    Friday, February 7, 2014 6:32 PM
    Answerer
  • I seems that the retirement date of 70-511 is now changed to 2015, so you can still an exam for WPF and Winforms, but not for studio 2012 but 2010.
    Friday, August 22, 2014 8:54 AM
  • It still seems odd to me that the answers to the questions could not be evaluated via IL instead of in a specific language. If they could do that, it would open it up to other .NET languages as well.

    Hopefully Microsoft will come around and offer corporate level exams for the newer versions of .NET & Visual Studio (not just store apps and web apps).

    Shaggee

    Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:02 PM