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WHS & 1TB HD, What's going on? RRS feed

  • Question

  • I have PC that has a primary SATA 160GB drive and now a slave 1TB drive. I installed a fresh copy of WHS PP1 and ran al lthe updates to bring it up to date with PP2.

    My Computer shows the primary 160GB drive partitioned for the OS (SYS) and storage (DATA) but my 1TB drive does not show up as being seem?!?!

    However when I open the WHS console and go to the server storage tab, it sees the 1TB HD just fine. WTF? Lol.

    I notice that all of the share folders are on the primary drives "DATA" partition. How do I *move* them to the 1TB drive so that anything I put in them is on that drive? I do not want it working as some kind of *overflow* and I do not want anything on the primary drive. I can't find any options for doing this and there were no options during OS install.

    Thanks! 

    FYI, the primary C partition (SYS) is about 20GB and the secondary partition (DATA) is like 129GB on my 160GB SATA0. I just wish I could see my 1TB HD SATA1 and KNOW what's going on.

    BTW, this is what the default installer did, TWICE, not me. It is using real partitions on the primary drive (SYS & DATA).
    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:58 PM

Answers

  • 92GTA said:

    Would a way around this be to use a 16GB SSD as the primary forcing the OS to install onto that and then using the RAID array as the *other* storage partition?

    No. Windows Home Server, when installed, takes complete control of all hardware it finds at that time for it's own use. It will split the system disk (which must be at least 80 GB in size) into two partitions: a 20 GB primary (system) partition, and a [disk - 20 GB] partition, which is the start of the storage pool. If there are additional disks visible to the installation software, they will also be added to the storage pool.

    The installer (you) has no control over any of this, unless using one or another unsupported (and strongly recommended against, due to the risk of breaking future updates to the product and the lack of any real need to modify the system disk layout) modification to the installation process to modify disk usage.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    • Marked as answer by 92GTA Monday, March 30, 2009 4:08 PM
    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:58 PM
    Moderator

All replies

  • 92GTA said:

    I have PC that has a primary SATA 160GB drive and now a slave 1TB drive. I installed a fresh copy of WHS PP1 and ran al lthe updates to bring it up to date with PP2.

    My Computer shows the primary 160GB drive partitioned for the OS (SYS) and storage (DATA) but my 1TB drive does not show up as being seem?!?!

    However when I open the WHS console and go to the server storage tab, it sees the 1TB HD just fine. WTF? Lol.

    I notice that all of the share folders are on the primary drives "DATA" partition. How do I *move* them to the 1TB drive so that anything I put in them is on that drive? I do not want it working as some kind of *overflow* and I do not want anything on the primary drive. I can't find any options for doing this and there were no options during OS install.

    Thanks! 

    FYI, the primary C partition (SYS) is about 20GB and the secondary partition (DATA) is like 129GB on my 160GB SATA0. I just wish I could see my 1TB HD SATA1 and KNOW what's going on.

    BTW, this is what the default installer did, TWICE, not me. It is using real partitions on the primary drive (SYS & DATA).



    Please see the technical brief on drive extender and the getting started guide. This should give you an overview regarding storage for Windows Home Server. In short, it does not work like a client. You cannot force the shares to be located on a single drive.  

    As for your missing drive, the 1TB drive was added to the storage pool during install. DATA is actually the combination of the secondary partition of your 160GB drive and your 1TB drive. If you add another drive to the server, you will be prompted to use it for server back up or add it to the pool. If you add it to the pool, it will be added to the sum of the storage and show as a drive in the console but there will still only be a DATA drive unless you check under C:\FS\.

    Thanks
    Lara Jones [MSFT] | Program Manager
    Community Support and Beta | Windows Home Server Team
    Windows Home Server Team Blog
    Connect Windows Home Server
    Windows Home Server
    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:19 PM
    Moderator
  • Thanks!

    That's what I was afraid of.

    I was hoping to use a small primary drive for the OS and then using a PCIe RAID card attach as many HDs as I want in a standalone RAID and configure the WHS to store ALL data there so it's easily retrieveable or migratible to any other hardware/software platform.

    Would a way around this be to use a 16GB SSD as the primary forcing the OS to install onto that and then using the RAID array as the *other* storage partition?

    EDIT: Reading the links you provided, it looks like:

    ·         Shared Folder Duplication

    Windows Home Server Drive Extender supports reliability by duplicating designated shared folders. Important data is stored on separate hard drives, which provides protection against hard-drive failure. Duplication is configurable for every shared folder—so a shared folder can have multiple copies with each copy stored on a separate hard drive.



    Will this allow for what I'm trying to do?

    • Edited by 92GTA Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:56 PM
    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:46 PM
  • There are some comments to make:
    1. RAID on Windows Home Server is not supported. It brings its own method, folder duplication, to duplicate the folders to two different disks, which are part of the storage pool.
    2. The minimum size for the system disk is 70 GByte, and there is no known method to circumvent this.
    Best greetings from Germany
    Olaf
    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:53 PM
    Moderator
  • 92GTA said:

    Would a way around this be to use a 16GB SSD as the primary forcing the OS to install onto that and then using the RAID array as the *other* storage partition?

    No. Windows Home Server, when installed, takes complete control of all hardware it finds at that time for it's own use. It will split the system disk (which must be at least 80 GB in size) into two partitions: a 20 GB primary (system) partition, and a [disk - 20 GB] partition, which is the start of the storage pool. If there are additional disks visible to the installation software, they will also be added to the storage pool.

    The installer (you) has no control over any of this, unless using one or another unsupported (and strongly recommended against, due to the risk of breaking future updates to the product and the lack of any real need to modify the system disk layout) modification to the installation process to modify disk usage.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    • Marked as answer by 92GTA Monday, March 30, 2009 4:08 PM
    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:58 PM
    Moderator
  • Olaf Engelke said:

    There are some comments to make:

    1. RAID on Windows Home Server is not supported. It brings its own method, folder duplication, to duplicate the folders to two different disks, which are part of the storage pool.
    2. The minimum size for the system disk is 70 GByte, and there is no known method to circumvent this.
    Best greetings from Germany
    Olaf



    I presume you mean that "fake" software RAID like what Server 2003/2008 can do is not supported? I see no reason that a "real" hardware RAID arrary would not be supported and recognized.
    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 6:58 PM
  •  Wow.

    I guess I'll need to use a real server OS then just so I know I have a real RAID mirror so I don't loose data.

    What a shame, WHS looked promising.

    Maybe I just don't understand how my data is duplicated so that if a drive in the "pool" fails, my data is still there and that I can just replace the failed drive and WHS rebuild it's virutal RAID pool or whatever...
    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:00 PM
  • 92GTA said:

    Thanks!

    That's what I was afraid of.

    I was hoping to use a small primary drive for the OS and then using a PCIe RAID card attach as many HDs as I want in a standalone RAID and configure the WHS to store ALL data there so it's easily retrieveable or migratible to any other hardware/software platform.

    Would a way around this be to use a 16GB SSD as the primary forcing the OS to install onto that and then using the RAID array as the *other* storage partition?




    The minimum disk requirement for Windows Home Server is 80GB. The system partition requires 20GB.  Windows Home Server is built on the Windows Server 2003 kernel, so keep in mind that the newer the technology, the more likely you will have to provide drivers during install. SSD = F6 for drivers during the installation.

    As for RAID, this is from the Drive Extender brief:

    It is highly recommended that you not use hardware RAID technologies for your home server. Recovering from hard-drive failures becomes increasingly complex when hardware RAID systems are used. The recommended approach is to use multiple hard drives that are configured as Just a Bunch of Disks (JBOD).

    Thanks


    Lara Jones [MSFT] | Program Manager
    Community Support and Beta | Windows Home Server Team
    Windows Home Server Team Blog
    Connect Windows Home Server
    Windows Home Server
    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:03 PM
    Moderator
  • 92GTA said:
    EDIT: Reading the links you provided, it looks like:

    ·         Shared Folder Duplication

    Windows Home Server Drive Extender supports reliability by duplicating designated shared folders. Important data is stored on separate hard drives, which provides protection against hard-drive failure. Duplication is configurable for every shared folder—so a shared folder can have multiple copies with each copy stored on a separate hard drive.




    Will this allow for what I'm trying to do?



    If you mean protect data by providing backups via copies of files on other disks?  Yes. In order for this to be effective, you will need to have more than one drive in your storage pool. You cannot have duplication if you only have one drive because if that drive fails, your copies are on the failed drive as well.
    Lara Jones [MSFT] | Program Manager
    Community Support and Beta | Windows Home Server Team
    Windows Home Server Team Blog
    Connect Windows Home Server
    Windows Home Server
    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:06 PM
    Moderator
  • Lara Jones said:

    92GTA said:
    EDIT: Reading the links you provided, it looks like:

    ·         Shared Folder Duplication

    Windows Home Server Drive Extender supports reliability by duplicating designated shared folders. Important data is stored on separate hard drives, which provides protection against hard-drive failure. Duplication is configurable for every shared folder—so a shared folder can have multiple copies with each copy stored on a separate hard drive.




    Will this allow for what I'm trying to do?



    If you mean protect data by providing backups via copies of files on other disks?  Yes. In order for this to be effective, you will need to have more than one drive in your storage pool. You cannot have duplication if you only have one drive because if that drive fails, your copies are on the failed drive as well.
    Lara Jones [MSFT] | Program Manager
    Community Support and Beta | Windows Home Server Team
    Windows Home Server Team Blog
    Connect Windows Home Server
    Windows Home Server





    Ok, I think I get it now.

    What I'm afraid is that I buy WHS, set al this up and then years down the road go to a different OS and run into problems migrating my data or the other OS rnot ecognizing that WHS did.
    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:12 PM
  • 92GTA said:

    What I'm afraid is that I buy WHS, set al this up and then years down the road go to a different OS and run into problems migrating my data or the other OS rnot ecognizing that WHS did.

    Your files are stored as files in an NTFS file system. You can pull a disk out of your server at any time and access any files that Drive Extender may have placed on it. Doing so is unsupported, because Drive Extender expects to manage those files and modification of them may create a situation where the two copies are no longer in sync, but it's possible to copy them off the drive easily.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:21 PM
    Moderator
  • I guess I'm just having difficulty understanding how my data is protected if I got to another OS or upgrade a motherboard or anything for that matter.

    What you are saying though is that, for example, I have a motherboard fail so I upgrade it. I can slave up all of the drives from my WHS into another system and retrieve ALL of the files and view them in a standard folder structure? So there is not going to be any certain files that are themselves split or anything then right?
    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:36 PM
  • Files are atomic; Windows Home Server doesn't split a single file in the shares between multiple drives. If you have duplication turned on for the share, there are two complete copies of the file, on two separate physical drives.
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:41 PM
    Moderator
  • Well for the sake of having portability & reliability, IE; a PCIe RAID card with x numbers of SATA drives in RAID whatever, that I can literally move into any motherboard in any system with any standard OS and be able to access the RAID and all of my files effrotlessly, WHS is not for me.

    It looks like I'll have to run standard Windows Server so I have RAID support.

    I must admit, I installed the trial of WHS PP2 last night and was very impressed, especially with the ease of installing the connect software on the clients and the stupid simple wizard that configures host shares. I'm just deathly afraid of this storage pool thing WHS does. I like that I can remove the drives and access the NTFS file system to get all my stuff, BUT when it comes to a HD in the pool failing and having to do duplicate folders that are on different drives and keep track of what dupes go to what drives when I add HDs, it just seems not as plug and forget as a RAID 5 for example using a controller. Plus I'm sure the software folder duplication WHS does slows it down a bit and eat CPU cycles. I also find it odd that it fills 1 drives then overflows to the next in the pool, and so on. For the sake of speed and ease of duplication wouldn't it make more sense to atleast keep an even number of drives and dupe from drive to drive, keeping each drive as full as it's mirror, not maxing one out then start filling the next all while having dupes on yet another drive incase the previously filled ones fails?

    I'm going to read the "Windows Home Server Technical Brief - Drive Extender.docx" when I get home tonight to be sure I have a full unerstanding before I reconsider commiting myself to an OS that I might not even be using in a few years and have to configure everything all over again. I mean it's quite the feat to dupe 8GB's of storage so that I can start with a fresh setup if I choose another OS down the road. Atleast with Windows Server, my RAID array is standalone and can physically migrate into anything.

    Thank you everyone for your help so far in answering my questions to help my decision on what OS to use.
    Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:18 AM
  • 92GTA said:

    ... Atleast with Windows Server, my RAID array is standalone and can physically migrate into anything. ...

    Until your RAID HBA dies. Then your data is very possibly irretrievable, since RAID HBA manufacturers don't have a stellar track record for backward compatibility. The way Windows Home Server manages data, it's just files in a file system, with the files on multiple drives. If it's important that you have access to your files later, and that that access be hardware/software agnostic, Windows Home Server is a better bet than RAID.

    Or do you have a spare (identical) RAID HBA purchased at the same time, stored in a closet somewhere?


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:09 PM
    Moderator