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Massive problems with Microsoft-Update on WHS-Box RRS feed

  • Question

  • Hi everybody,

    approximately 2 Weeks ago I have installed a new Windows Home Server on a custom build hardware. I'm using a German version of the WHS software including PP1.

    Staring from the forst day, I have hade a couple of problems with the windows update. All update have been found, but most of them failed to download or install. I was able to install most of them manually by following the links in the description, but some are not available.

    After a long time of manually installing updates, only 3 updates are still missing, 2 important (KB957825 and a cululative update for IE7) and one optional (Silverlight).

    Meanwhile I have already changed from "Windows Update" to "Microsoft Update", but the problem become even worse. If I now start the update from the "Home Server Console", the update task crashes, killing the console (fortunately not the server). If I start the update on the server (on a local console or logged in remotely), the update task starts, but is freezing at the beginning, showing "downlaod is beeing prepaired" (sorry, I'm translating from the German version, so please be patient). Anyhow, the download doesn't starts and nothing happens (have waited already for apprx. 3h).

    Does anywon have a hint for me how I can solve this problem (hopefully without reinstalling the server from a scratch)?  If there is a general problem with the WHS and "Microsoft Update", is there a way back to "Windows Update"?

    Thanks for any help.
    Friday, February 13, 2009 9:09 PM

Answers

  • Hi,

    OK, I have now performed chkdsk/r on drive c:, but no errors were found.

    Also, if I trigger the updates from the WHS console on a client-PC, I can read the error message. But this only indicates, that the update couldn't be started and I should restart the server.

    After all, I think, that the problems arise from a corrupt .NET2.0 installation (because of the reproducable error entry in the application log). Maybe a plugin is responsible for this error, I'm not shure.

    Anyhow, here is my plugin-list. Maybe you have some information about "bad plugins", which I should better remove:
    - ClientInfoAddIn 2.0.0.1
    - LightsOut 0.7.6.101
    - TaskViewer 1.7.0
    - TabScroller 0.8.0
    - EventViewer 1.1.0.0
    - AdvancedAdminConsole 0.4.3

    I suspected ClientInfo to maybe produce problems, becasue I get an message in the application-log every 15 minutes that "some parts of C:\Program Files\Windows Home Server\ClientInfoObjects.dll couldn't been loaded". I have deinstalled this plugin and everything seems to be OK. Reinstalled it and there is the crash again...

    I will keep an eye on this ... Does anyone have similar problems with ClientInfo (which is pretty usefull, anyhow).

    Thanks again.
    regards
    • Marked as answer by schmz Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:40 PM
    Sunday, February 15, 2009 7:16 PM

All replies

  • As a practical matter a server reinstallation may be your quickest way back to functionality. Typically, "fixing" this type of problem requires much research, and multiple attempts, with no guarantee of success at the end.

    In WHS, a server reinstallation is non-destructive of data. It will replace/refresh the operating system, so you will need to reinstall add-ins, recreated users, re-join home computers to the server, and reconfigure any tweaks you may have applied outside the WHS console. But it will preserve your shares and your backup database.

    Once you've done that, you should not use Windows Update (or Microsoft Update) to apply patches. The Windows Home Server console applicaiton includes an Update button which will download and apply updates appropriate for your server.

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Friday, February 13, 2009 10:15 PM
    Moderator
  • Ken Warren said:

    As a practical matter a server reinstallation may be your quickest way back to functionality. Typically, "fixing" this type of problem requires much research, and multiple attempts, with no guarantee of success at the end.


    In WHS, a server reinstallation is non-destructive of data. It will replace/refresh the operating system, so you will need to reinstall add-ins, recreated users, re-join home computers to the server, and reconfigure any tweaks you may have applied outside the WHS console. But it will preserve your shares and your backup database.

    Once you've done that, you should not use Windows Update (or Microsoft Update) to apply patches. The Windows Home Server console applicaiton includes an Update button which will download and apply updates appropriate for your server.

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)



    Unfortunately, Ken, WHS does not use Microsoft Update for updates (it only uses Windows Update).  Although unsupported, I would strongly recommend that users logon to the server, install MU, then use that to get all High Priority updates.  (MyMovies for WHS automatically installs SQL Server 2005 Express Edition, but WU doesn't pick up any updates for it.)
    Saturday, February 14, 2009 1:02 AM
    Moderator
  • Hi,

    first of all, thanks for yout help. MS is not willing to give me any help themself for free. Even if they mentioned, that issues related to Microsoft-Update are free of charge, the told me, that they don't support Server-product. Verry pitty.

    Therefore, double thaks to you for this help.

    I have now somehow managed to switch back to "Windows-Update" following a description I have found in the internet (the discription was for XP, but have worked also for the WHS). Anyhow, the update still doen't work correctly. I can now use the HomeServrConsole to trigger the updates and it tries to downlod the to important updates, but without any success. The updates faild to download (very quickly).

    If I now navigate to the windows-udpate page and check the update progress, the error messages are:
    - the error for "Update for Windows Home Server (KB957825)" is 0x80072EFE, which indicates, that the connection has been terminated by the server.
    - the error for the cumulative updates for the IE7 (KB961260) is 0x80004005, which is pretty interesting, because it indicates, that Windows-Update is not able to check my license.
    Expecially the second error is interesting because my license is valid, but I'm not able to check it on the MS-anti-piracy homepage, because their tools for the license check doesn't support "Server products" (only XP and Vista).

    I think, that I have reached a dead end for this issue, so I will reinstall the server. I just make a backup of the shares and the try the (non destructive) reinstallation.

    Hopefully the reactivation won't make any problems ...

    Thanks again...


    Saturday, February 14, 2009 12:55 PM
  • kariya21 said:

    Unfortunately, Ken, WHS does not use Microsoft Update for updates (it only uses Windows Update).  Although unsupported, I would strongly recommend that users logon to the server, install MU, then use that to get all High Priority updates.  (MyMovies for WHS automatically installs SQL Server 2005 Express Edition, but WU doesn't pick up any updates for it.)

    We go very far into "unsupported" territory when we install SQL Server (any version) and Microsoft Update on our servers.  Sorry, but I stand by what I wrote: don't directly install updates using Windows Update or Microsoft Update. Add-in vendors may, of course, choose to include additional software to better support the functionality they provide, but IMO it's incumbent on them to make sure that the server is properly configured afterward. In the case of MyMovies, if Microsoft Update is required for it (or any component it ships with) to update correctly, then as part of the installation process it should configure the server to use Microsoft Update.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Saturday, February 14, 2009 2:43 PM
    Moderator
  • Ken Warren said:

    We go very far into "unsupported" territory when we install SQL Server (any version) and Microsoft Update on our servers.  Sorry, but I stand by what I wrote: don't directly install updates using Windows Update or Microsoft Update. 

    First, I understand installing SQL Server on WHS is unsupported.  However, the installation method is supported.  The problem is the average user installing that particular add-in won't even realize that it's happening (the add-in automatically downloads and configures SQL Server Express without any interaction from the user; all the end user will see is a WHS yellow icon in the systray saying "SQL Server is being installed, please don't reboot during this process").  Second, I've been using MU since WHS was in beta 2 years ago.  I can assure you there are absolutely no problems with doing it (as long as you stick to installing High Priority updates and skip the Software, Optional updates).  Besides, if you don't use WU/MU, you don't get any MS-approved driver updates for any piece of hardware in your system.  Yes, it's unsupported, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work. ;)  Although I will go so far as to say that it should probably only be done by "more-experienced" users.  (Frankly, MS should have included MU with WHS OOTB and this whole issue could have been avoided.)

    Ken Warren said:

    Add-in vendors may, of course, choose to include additional software to better support the functionality they provide, but IMO it's incumbent on them to make sure that the server is properly configured afterward. In the case of MyMovies, if Microsoft Update is required for it (or any component it ships with) to update correctly, then as part of the installation process it should configure the server to use Microsoft Update.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)



    I doubt that the WHS Console update process can be changed from WU to MU (I'm assuming it's hard-coded somewhere), but it's a good suggestion never-the-less. I'll try contacting the author of the add-in and see what he can come up with.
    Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:49 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi together, it's me again.

    after my experiences with the update process in the last days, I fully agree with Ken. After all, I have installed this server for backup-purposes, so the stability is the far most important task, the server has to fullfill. Therefore, I will stick only on the supprted procedures.

    Anyhow, I have now reinstalled the server using the reinstallation methode. I have not activated the server yet - pitty enough, that this is necessary after a reinstallation of a broken server...

    First thing that I have done after the installation was, to start a update process (of course from the WHS console). The update installed 52 updates, including the "big fishes" .NET3.5SP1 and IE7. After the reboot, I started an other update process from the WHS console, but from now on, the update from the WHS console crashes repeatable. It produces "some" error message, which I cannot read, due to broken screen, and the complete WHS console crashes.

    I'm not shure, what the problem is now, but I suspect the IE7 (please remark that the IE7 was installed through the WHS-console). Can some of you guyes check please if you also have installed the IE7? Otherwise I should deinstall it through the Control Panel?

    BTW: Bitdefender2009 (Antivirus, NOT Internet- or Totaltsecurity) was not installed at this time, so in think that I can exclude this as the producer of this error.

    Thanks again.
    regards
    Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:23 PM
  • schmz said:

    Hi together, it's me again.

    after my experiences with the update process in the last days, I fully agree with Ken. After all, I have installed this server for backup-purposes, so the stability is the far most important task, the server has to fullfill. Therefore, I will stick only on the supprted procedures.

    Anyhow, I have now reinstalled the server using the reinstallation methode. I have not activated the server yet - pitty enough, that this is necessary after a reinstallation of a broken server...

    Good idea.  Don't reactivate until you get your server up and running again.

    schmz said:

    First thing that I have done after the installation was, to start a update process (of course from the WHS console). The update installed 52 updates, including the "big fishes" .NET3.5SP1 and IE7. After the reboot, I started an other update process from the WHS console, but from now on, the update from the WHS console crashes repeatable. It produces "some" error message, which I cannot read, due to broken screen, and the complete WHS console crashes.

    It would be helpful if you could find out the exact error message.  Maybe you should replace your broken monitor with a new one (so you can let us know what the error message is).  However, you might try running chkdsk /r on each drive as a first-step.

    schmz said:

    I'm not shure, what the problem is now, but I suspect the IE7 (please remark that the IE7 was installed through the WHS-console). Can some of you guyes check please if you also have installed the IE7?
     

    I've installed it through the Console on my virtual server and through MU on my real server.  Both work fine.

    schmz said:

    Otherwise I should deinstall it through the Control Panel?

    I seriously doubt that IE7 is your problem.

    schmz said:

    BTW: Bitdefender2009 (Antivirus, NOT Internet- or Totaltsecurity) was not installed at this time, so in think that I can exclude this as the producer of this error.

    Thanks again.
    regards



    Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:33 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi,

    thanks for the answer. Anyhow, I think that i have written it missunderstadable. Not my monititor is the problem, the WHS-console is the problem. If I start the update-process, I see an error message after a few seconds, but the message is not correctly displayed by the console. A few seconds later, the whole WHS-console crashes... and thats all the same, doesn't matter, if I'm logged in locally, remotely (with RemoteDesktop) or using the WHS-Console on a client computer.

    I also have startet an IE7 and navigated to the WindowsUpdate-Site, just to check the update-progress, but there are no errorss listed, only the successfull installed 52 updated from the first run (execpt one update for IE6, which couldn't be installed due to IE7 installation in the same update process).

    I realy don't know what to do next.
    Saturday, February 14, 2009 7:19 PM
  • schmz said:

    Hi,

    thanks for the answer. Anyhow, I think that i have written it missunderstadable. Not my monititor is the problem, the WHS-console is the problem. If I start the update-process, I see an error message after a few seconds, but the message is not correctly displayed by the console. A few seconds later, the whole WHS-console crashes... and thats all the same, doesn't matter, if I'm logged in locally, remotely (with RemoteDesktop) or using the WHS-Console on a client computer.

    I also have startet an IE7 and navigated to the WindowsUpdate-Site, just to check the update-progress, but there are no errorss listed, only the successfull installed 52 updated from the first run (execpt one update for IE6, which couldn't be installed due to IE7 installation in the same update process).

    I realy don't know what to do next.


    What are the current component numbers (Settings button, Resources tab)?  Are there any error messages in the event logs on the server when you try to run the updates again?  What do you mean "the message is not correctly displayed by the Console"?  If you logon to the server desktop and go to Windows Update, does it work?  If so, what updates does it show under High Priority?  Have you tried running chkdsk /r on the C partition?
    Saturday, February 14, 2009 7:52 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi,

    are there any entries in your server event log?
    Are there any errors in c:\windows\windows update.log?

    And what happens when you run WU manually and search for custom updates ?

    Regards

    Martin


    LightsOut - Power Management for Windows Home Server http://www.home-server-blog.de/add-ins/lightsout/#en
    Saturday, February 14, 2009 7:59 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi again,

    to anser your questions:
    the resources are:
    Server Console:        6.0.1800.0
    Save and restore:     6.0.1800.24
    Driveextender:        6.0.1800.24
    Remote access:        6.0.1800.0
    Memory-manager:    6.0.1800.24
    (please excuse me if the names are not correct, I'm using a German version and translated them manually)

    When I start an update from the console, a messasge-popup comes up, but the contents are not shown. I see the blue bar on top of this message-window (the blue bar), indicating an "error during the actualization process of windows home server". But the contents of this message are not displayed (looks like windows is still loading somthing and working on the contents). Then the console crashes.

    I have checkd the logs after such a crash:
    - In the application-log, there is a "information" message (white "i"), that parts of "C:\Program Files\Windows Home Server\ClientObjects.dll" couldn't be found. But this message appeares some minutes before the update was triggered.
    - In the application log is an other error (red "X") coming from .NET2.0RunTime: "EventType clr20r3, P1, homeserverconsole.exe, P2, 6.0.0.0, P3 48791358, P4 whscommon, P5, 487912f9, P9 system.overflowexception, P10 NIL.
    - nothing new in "HomeServer" and "InternetExplorer".
    - some "login", "logout" messages in the Securitylog
    - nothing new in the Systemlog

    If I navigate to Windows-Update manualle, some (optional) updates are found ("group policies", KB94372, "Windows Search 4.0" and Remotedesktopconnection 6.0). But I havn't tried to install them manually (due to the problems I have had before).

    C:\windows\WindowsUpdate.log has a lot of messages, but I cannot locate any obviosiously error. One message indicates, that no updates were found and the process was terminated correctly. Loks like this:
    ---cut---
    Agent: Finding updates [CallerId = WHS Console]
    COMAPI >>--  RESUMED  -- COMAPI: Search [ClientId = WHS Console]
    COMAPI   - Updates found = 0
    COMAPI --  END  --  COMAPI: Search [ClientId = WHS Console]
    ---cut---
    (I have cut out the interesting parts to make it better readable)

    I havn't run chkdsk/r on C: yet. I have tried it quickly, but it inidcates that the drive is locked and a reboot is required. I will do this tomorrow (sorry guys, is close to 1:00 here in Germany and I'm tiered %) ).

    Thanks again for all the help.
    Regards!
    -
    Saturday, February 14, 2009 11:51 PM
  • schmz said:

    Hi again,

    to anser your questions:
    the resources are:
    Server Console:        6.0.1800.0
    Save and restore:     6.0.1800.24
    Driveextender:        6.0.1800.24
    Remote access:        6.0.1800.0
    Memory-manager:    6.0.1800.24
    (please excuse me if the names are not correct, I'm using a German version and translated them manually)

    Good, those are the latest versions.

    schmz said:

    When I start an update from the console, a messasge-popup comes up, but the contents are not shown. I see the blue bar on top of this message-window (the blue bar), indicating an "error during the actualization process of windows home server". But the contents of this message are not displayed (looks like windows is still loading somthing and working on the contents). Then the console crashes.

    I have checkd the logs after such a crash:
    - In the application-log, there is a "information" message (white "i"), that parts of "C:\Program Files\Windows Home Server\ClientObjects.dll" couldn't be found. But this message appeares some minutes before the update was triggered.
    - In the application log is an other error (red "X") coming from .NET2.0RunTime: "EventType clr20r3, P1, homeserverconsole.exe, P2, 6.0.0.0, P3 48791358, P4 whscommon, P5, 487912f9, P9 system.overflowexception, P10 NIL.
    - nothing new in "HomeServer" and "InternetExplorer".
    - some "login", "logout" messages in the Securitylog
    - nothing new in the Systemlog

    If I navigate to Windows-Update manualle, some (optional) updates are found ("group policies", KB94372, "Windows Search 4.0" and Remotedesktopconnection 6.0). But I havn't tried to install them manually (due to the problems I have had before).

    Yes, definitely skip all Software, Optional updates.

    schmz said:

    C:\windows\WindowsUpdate.log has a lot of messages, but I cannot locate any obviosiously error. One message indicates, that no updates were found and the process was terminated correctly. Loks like this:
    ---cut---
    Agent: Finding updates [CallerId = WHS Console]
    COMAPI >>--  RESUMED  -- COMAPI: Search [ClientId = WHS Console]
    COMAPI   - Updates found = 0
    COMAPI --  END  --  COMAPI: Search [ClientId = WHS Console]
    ---cut---
    (I have cut out the interesting parts to make it better readable)

    I havn't run chkdsk/r on C: yet. I have tried it quickly, but it inidcates that the drive is locked and a reboot is required. I will do this tomorrow (sorry guys, is close to 1:00 here in Germany and I'm tiered %) ).

    Thanks again for all the help.
    Regards!
    -

    Ok, go get some sleep. :)

    Sunday, February 15, 2009 1:23 AM
    Moderator
  • Hi,

    OK, I have now performed chkdsk/r on drive c:, but no errors were found.

    Also, if I trigger the updates from the WHS console on a client-PC, I can read the error message. But this only indicates, that the update couldn't be started and I should restart the server.

    After all, I think, that the problems arise from a corrupt .NET2.0 installation (because of the reproducable error entry in the application log). Maybe a plugin is responsible for this error, I'm not shure.

    Anyhow, here is my plugin-list. Maybe you have some information about "bad plugins", which I should better remove:
    - ClientInfoAddIn 2.0.0.1
    - LightsOut 0.7.6.101
    - TaskViewer 1.7.0
    - TabScroller 0.8.0
    - EventViewer 1.1.0.0
    - AdvancedAdminConsole 0.4.3

    I suspected ClientInfo to maybe produce problems, becasue I get an message in the application-log every 15 minutes that "some parts of C:\Program Files\Windows Home Server\ClientInfoObjects.dll couldn't been loaded". I have deinstalled this plugin and everything seems to be OK. Reinstalled it and there is the crash again...

    I will keep an eye on this ... Does anyone have similar problems with ClientInfo (which is pretty usefull, anyhow).

    Thanks again.
    regards
    • Marked as answer by schmz Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:40 PM
    Sunday, February 15, 2009 7:16 PM
  • I can't comment on "Bad Add-Ins" but...

    Be careful when removing Task Viewer, this Add-In erroneously deletes system dlls. See here for more details: http://forum.wegotserved.com/index.php?showtopic=5604
    Latest LightsOut Version is 0.7.7

    Regards
    Martin

    LightsOut - Power Management for Windows Home Server http://www.home-server-blog.de/add-ins/lightsout/#en
    Monday, February 16, 2009 10:37 AM
    Moderator
  • Hi,

    thanks again for the answer.

    Pretty interesing, bit since I have removed the ClientInfo-Addin, I havn't encountered any problems anymore (but, however, no updates are available since then). Bit the message, that there are no updates available, is coming, and I haven't encountered any problems with the manually triggered update from the settings dialog. Maybe I should contact the author of this plugin and report this problem...

    I have also cleaned my plugin-list. I have no only LightsOut and AdvancedAdminConsole installed. Thanks for the hint on removing TaskViewer (there is no need for this plugin, due to the functionality of the Adv.AdminConsole).

    I have also upgraded to LightsOut 0.7.7, realy greate tool!!! The only thing I miss on LightsOut is an automatic update-check :)

    Thanks again. I think, we can close this issue, couldn't we?

    Regards
    Ulrich
    Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:34 PM