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OneCare and AdAware should not conflict with eachother..... RRS feed

  • Question

  • I just came home to see that OneCare is stating that AdAware 2007 is conflicting software, however the fact that OneCare is red because of the said conflict should be a false positive.

     

    The OneCare Message states:

    Urgent

    Remove Interfering programs

     

    Some programs on this PC may interfere with OneCare.  To avoid performance problems on this PC, you should remove those programs.

     

    WHY?

    OneCare and AdAware differ in their types of scans.  OneCare currently does NOT check, nor monitor recently used files in any programs, AdAware does, and alows you to clear them.  The same with a users cookies.

     

    Until OneCare can offer the same functionality, this should be removed from OneCares scans of potentialy conflicting software.  Especialy since anyone can access a PC's cookies, recently browsed websites, and recently used application files WHEN THEY ARE ON THE LOCAL MACHINE.  AdAware can remove those types of threats where OneCare does not have that feature.

     

    Some users will see this as a security risk by Windows Live OneCare!  Although it should be implimented into the Windows Live OneCare solution with the option to turn it on or off.

    Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:56 AM

Answers

  • It is not a false positive in the true sense of the word.

     

    I can't tell you that it is a true positive, either, as I can't say that I've encountered any reports of OneCare falling over because AdAware 2007 was running, but I have to assume that this was done intentionally by the OneCare developers based on testing after problems were reported through support channels.

     

    It is a problem with the way the developers of AdAware 2007 decided to develop the program. Instead of starting the service when the main AdAware program starts, they start it at boot and it will turn back on if you turn it off.

    See this thread in the AdAware forums - http://www.lavasoftsupport.com/index.php?showtopic=9893

     

    -steve

     

    Friday, February 1, 2008 12:37 PM
    Moderator
  • Actually, the source of the problem is quite simple and freely admitted by Lavasoft's own Jona Bolin in his comment at Lavasoft Addresses Conflict with Windows LiveOneCare (Not!) in which he states: 

    "The only time a problem occurs is when you are running the realtime protection features of Ad-Aware 2007 Plus/Pro (Ad-Watch), at which point LiveOneCare might terminate prematurely."

    Since Ad-Aware 2007 (Free) also includes the Ad-Watch component, WLOC is correctly warning customers of the possible conflict.  I would suggest users of both Windows Live OneCare and Ad-Aware 2007 (Free) refer to the post and screen captures by Microsoft MVP Donna Buenaventura at Windows Live OneCare and Ad-Aware 2007 incompatibility issue where Donna illustrates what the Windows Live OneCare screen captures mean, explaining that she has had no issues running both WLOC and Ad-Aware 2007 (Free).

    It wasn't until AAW 2007 was released that all components were included in the same downloaded.  Prior to that, Lavasoft had a separate version for Plus and Pro customers.  With those components included, but not accessible, in the free version, I agree with japreja's expectation that other vendors will also report similar conflicts. Trend Micro even includes their own products as well as Ad-Aware as necessary to be uninstalled. See EN-1035951.




    Saturday, February 16, 2008 6:02 PM
  • No, because it runs a service in the background which can cause performance issues with One Care.

    Friday, March 21, 2008 1:40 AM
    Moderator

All replies

  • Ad Aware 2007 is a conflicting program because unlike previous versions it scans in real time. Cookies and MRUs are not security threats. Cookies and history can be controlled through browser settings and you can stop MRUs from being listed by using the advanced settings in Start Menu properties. You can also use a non conflicting program like CCleaner - http://www.filehippo.com/download_ccleaner/ to control cookies, clear browsing history etc.

     

    Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:04 PM
    Moderator
  • All the cookies that Adaware 2007 locates when it runs can be deleted through IE7. Just go into IE7 and hit delete cookies, then run Adaware. Adaware won't find anything.
    Saturday, January 26, 2008 5:00 PM
  • Regardles of tools out side of OneCare, OneCare is supposed to be a single solution.

     

    Cookies and MRUs are not security threats.

     

    If I was physicaly on your computer, I could use your cookies and MRU to discover exactly what sites you have visited and login to your accounts.  Because passwords and usernames are used in those cookies, I wouldnt need to know them, they are already stored.

     

    If you have checked you bank account, email, online profile, etc.... without removing your cookies and MRU's I, and anyone else who is physicaly on the PC, can indeed view and edit online information, bank account information, etc...

     

    This is a security risk, There is too much Identity Theft.  I wonder why?

     

    If you wan't to send me your PC as an example I will prove it.  I will also tell you which files you have recently removed and recover them then tell me that Cookies and MRU's are not a security risk.

     

    Or maybee the IRS will upgrade their computer systems, and then sell the PC's to people who can't afford a new one at low rates.  Just imagine your information is on one of those PC's, then removed by the operating system using delete.  Well then the company you did business with will have inadvertantly given your information, possably including your SSN.

     

    Or imagine a perl or python hacker setting up perl/python scripts on a website they have created.  when you do something on a certain site they can have the script run and transfer the information.

     

    Why hasen't any one understood these FACTS?  We are supposed to be beta testing, this is a threat and a fact that should not be ignored.  These features MUST be included in OneCare in order to keep substantial, and even excessive, security to not only enhance browsing experiances, but the "Computer Experiance" as well.  Most laymen will not understand these risks.  Once it is implimentd, any PC with OneCare installed will have some of the best security currently available.  Wouldn't that be great.

     

    Untill then OneCare will remain red, as I am not removing the tools I am currently using to enhance my computer experiance, perform tests on betas, and securely remove data.  And I have been using CCCleaner for some time as well as several other tools.  These tools also help me determine what OneCare beta is missing and what is working properly.

     

    I could also post some other things here, but this thread is only regarding Anti-Spyware.

    Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:25 AM
  • I think, based on the subject of this post, that you need to read this post - http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsOneCare/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=372863&SiteID=2

     

    -steve

    Monday, January 28, 2008 1:49 AM
    Moderator
  •  

    I can't believe that status is RED because OneCare wants me to remove Ad-Aware 2007. OneCare allows sites to have access to my history for marketing purposes.  Ad-Aware is the defense I choose for removing the tracking-tags that OneCare allows sites to access.  Removing cookies through IE is not a great alternative.  If I have to choose between Ad-Aware and OneCare, I will choose to decline renewal of OneCare.  I trust Lavasoft more than Microsoft for privacy protection.
    Friday, February 1, 2008 1:17 AM
  • Steve,

     

    I PAID for OneCare and this message pops up. I think this is a serious issue. Also, isn't this a "public" beta (like google) and you are invoking NDA (from April 2006)??

     

    If it doesn't get fixed, OneCare comes off my systems and the subscription is cancelled.

     

    Please take this seriously to improve your product.

    Friday, February 1, 2008 1:50 AM
  • Ad-Aware 2007 enables an always on service which can interfere with OneCare. You should never have multiple services or programs that scan for malware active on a machine as it can cause performance problems and system instability. Prior to the 2007 version of Ad-Aware, AdWatch was the only "real time" component of AdAware and it was optional.

    -steve

     

    Friday, February 1, 2008 2:10 AM
    Moderator
  •  Doc Normal wrote:

    Steve,

     

    I PAID for OneCare and this message pops up. I think this is a serious issue. Also, isn't this a "public" beta (like google) and you are invoking NDA (from April 2006)??

     

    If it doesn't get fixed, OneCare comes off my systems and the subscription is cancelled.

     

    Please take this seriously to improve your product.

    I posted that reply to a tester from the private Perpetual beta who had the update you just received several days ago.

    OneCare 2.0 is not a public beta. Minor updates and signature updates are deployed, for testing before wide release, to private testers who are under NDA.

    -steve

    Friday, February 1, 2008 2:25 AM
    Moderator
  • I, too am quite upset about this issue.  The "free" version of AdAware scans NOTHING in real time.  It is a more robust tool than OneCare is, and it is my business to know these things.  Only the paid version of Adaware scans in real time.  Fix this issue, or lose my two licenses as well.  You guys blew it on this one and guaranteed the uproar has only just begun.  Get real or get off my computers!

     

    Friday, February 1, 2008 2:34 AM
  • Steve,

     

    Thanks for the explanation! I guess I didn't understand the nature of your reply regarding the NDA issue (I even looked at my version of OneCare to see if it was identified as "beta" - it isn't).

     

    Perhaps OneCare can respond to the Ad-Aware installation as a recommendation, but turning the icon red and making it an alert is over-the-top.

     

    Many customers have good reason to run more than one scanner and the previous post that notes the free version of Ad-Aware is not a real-time scanner is true. Ad-Aware is a valid part of a security tool-kit. Of course, we could ignore the alert in OneCare, but I think it devalues the concept behind the "red alert". I personally view this as a "false positive" issue.

     

    Thanks,

    dN

    Friday, February 1, 2008 3:48 AM
  • This realy isn't a serious issue for home users.  This issue does not disable anything on your PC, it is mainly an alert to notify you that there is conflicting software.  OneCare will still function normaly weather or not you decide to keep or remove AdAware 2007.

     

    I personaly have removed AdAware 2007 and am using CCleaner until the issue is elaborated upon a bit more, If you have the pay version of AdAware 2007 then the services MIGHT conflict at some point but I cannot say for sure since I only use the free version of AdAware 2007 mainly to just monitor/clean my MRU (Most Recently Used) files.

     

    The issues with Cookies and MRU's are only security related if an unauthorised person is physicaly sitting in front of your computer, but if you are the only one using your PC, then there is no real problem with Cookies or MRU's being left on the PC.

     

    It's basicly the same as adding a website to your Favorites list.

     

     

    Friday, February 1, 2008 3:52 AM
  • The issue is that this is a OneCare "red alert" and not just some warning/advisory on possible program incompatibility.

     

    It is a false positive.

     

     

     

     

    Friday, February 1, 2008 5:07 AM
  • It is not a false positive in the true sense of the word.

     

    I can't tell you that it is a true positive, either, as I can't say that I've encountered any reports of OneCare falling over because AdAware 2007 was running, but I have to assume that this was done intentionally by the OneCare developers based on testing after problems were reported through support channels.

     

    It is a problem with the way the developers of AdAware 2007 decided to develop the program. Instead of starting the service when the main AdAware program starts, they start it at boot and it will turn back on if you turn it off.

    See this thread in the AdAware forums - http://www.lavasoftsupport.com/index.php?showtopic=9893

     

    -steve

     

    Friday, February 1, 2008 12:37 PM
    Moderator
  •  Doc Normal wrote:

    Steve,

     

    Thanks for the explanation! I guess I didn't understand the nature of your reply regarding the NDA issue (I even looked at my version of OneCare to see if it was identified as "beta" - it isn't).

     

    Perhaps OneCare can respond to the Ad-Aware installation as a recommendation, but turning the icon red and making it an alert is over-the-top.

     

    Many customers have good reason to run more than one scanner and the previous post that notes the free version of Ad-Aware is not a real-time scanner is true. Ad-Aware is a valid part of a security tool-kit. Of course, we could ignore the alert in OneCare, but I think it devalues the concept behind the "red alert". I personally view this as a "false positive" issue.

     

    Thanks,

    dN

    No, you are likely running the paid/release version. The update that detects AdAware 2007 as a conflicting program was released to production yesterday, 1/31/08, and will be deployed to everyone. The update was deployed to the Perpetual Beta testers for testing privately at about the time that this thread started, hence my reason for warning the Perpetual Beta tester who started the thread that they were not supposed to be discussing the issue here at that time. Now that it is released, it is no longer an issue.

    See my other reply regarding the service issue - it doesn't scan, however the service is in memory at all times and started.

    http://www.lavasoftsupport.com/index.php?showtopic=9893

     

    -steve

    Friday, February 1, 2008 12:40 PM
    Moderator
  •  

    This is absolutely true.  I'm running the fre version of Ad-Aware and I get a big red OneCare icon as of yesterday.  The free Ad-Aware does NOT scan in real time (you have to pay for that feature), and so should cause no conflict.  If it's a simple case of MS not being able to tell the difference between free and paid versions of Ad-Aware, it's a mistake to make "interference" the default assumption.

     

    As to the poster who said that it's not a critical issue, and that the red icon could be ignored, I think that's terrible advice.  Letting yourself become complacent with a big red warning means that you'll never check the status.  When an actual critical issue pops up, there will be no way to get the user's attention.  It's "the boy who cried wolf", updated for the digital age.  I'll let this red error persist until it's fixed CORRECTLY or until my licenses expire, whichever comes first.  Since I only have 2 months left before my subscription ends, and knowing how long it takes MS to fix something, I think I know which that will be.

    Friday, February 1, 2008 1:50 PM
  • I am new and like both programs...is one care trying to force us to use only one care and no other programs ????? if so I need to cancel and go back to the great free programs that are out there Zone alarm etc...

    Friday, February 1, 2008 3:16 PM
  • See my response above regarding the service that is *always* on in AdAware 2007.

    -steve

     

    Friday, February 1, 2008 3:20 PM
    Moderator
  •  Dave Schwartz wrote:

     

    This is absolutely true.  I'm running the fre version of Ad-Aware and I get a big red OneCare icon as of yesterday.  The free Ad-Aware does NOT scan in real time (you have to pay for that feature), and so should cause no conflict.  If it's a simple case of MS not being able to tell the difference between free and paid versions of Ad-Aware, it's a mistake to make "interference" the default assumption.

     

    As to the poster who said that it's not a critical issue, and that the red icon could be ignored, I think that's terrible advice.  Letting yourself become complacent with a big red warning means that you'll never check the status.  When an actual critical issue pops up, there will be no way to get the user's attention.  It's "the boy who cried wolf", updated for the digital age.  I'll let this red error persist until it's fixed CORRECTLY or until my licenses expire, whichever comes first.  Since I only have 2 months left before my subscription ends, and knowing how long it takes MS to fix something, I think I know which that will be.

    The service is active in all versions of AdAware 2007, to the best of my knowledge.

    I will, however, see if I can get some sort of a response from the OneCare team as to the specifics of this issue.

    See my post above for a link to the AdAware forum thread where this service is discussed.

    -steve

    Friday, February 1, 2008 3:21 PM
    Moderator
  • This error is also being reported for McAfee SiteAdvisor free edition, which has been working flawlessly with OneCarefor over a year, and continues to work fine today, even though Onecare has put my PC's into a RED status.  This is terrible.  I'll need to uninstall Onecare unless you revert this change, or allow us to turn off the "At Risk" warning for these proigrams.

     

    This was not a well thought out change that was introduced.

     

     

     

    Friday, February 1, 2008 3:44 PM
  •  Nem1234 wrote:

    This error is also being reported for McAfee SiteAdvisor free edition, which has been working flawlessly with OneCarefor over a year, and continues to work fine today, even though Onecare has put my PC's into a RED status.  This is terrible.  I'll need to uninstall Onecare unless you revert this change, or allow us to turn off the "At Risk" warning for these proigrams.

     

    This was not a well thought out change that was introduced.

     

     

     

    See this thread for the SiteAdvisor issue - http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsOneCare/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2779592&SiteID=2

    -steve

    Friday, February 1, 2008 5:03 PM
    Moderator
  • WLOC generated a message window: "You should uninstall Ad-Aware 2007 as it may cause problems with WLOC. To see why, click the link below."

     

    The link does not answer the question: "Why uninstall Ad-Aware 2007?"

     

    Ad-Aware 2007 (free version) is a 'manually selected' scanner for adware.

    It has identified-and-removed adware which was undetected by WLOC and Windows-KB890830-V1.37.exe.

     

    Why should this program (Ad-Aware 2007) be uninstalled?

     

    DHoppus

    Friday, February 1, 2008 9:38 PM
  • Ad-Watch is optional on AdAware 2007 (free version) I have also decided to cease the use of OneCare unless this false red status is fixed.  I also intend to let all my clients and IT friends know about this new, but not surprising monopoly attempt by Microsoft.  It is well known in the "real world" that more than one malware program can be used so long as they do not actively run simultaniously, which AdAware 2007 (free) does not.

     

    DownRange02

    Saturday, February 2, 2008 2:48 AM
  • I'm merging your post into the thread where this is being discussed

    -steve

     

    Saturday, February 2, 2008 3:50 AM
    Moderator
  • I am merging this thread into the one where this is being discussed at length.

    -steve

     

    Saturday, February 2, 2008 3:51 AM
    Moderator
  • As to the poster who said that it's not a critical issue, and that the red icon could be ignored, I think that's terrible advice.  Letting yourself become complacent with a big red warning means that you'll never check the status.  When an actual critical issue pops up, there will be no way to get the user's attention.  It's "the boy who cried wolf", updated for the digital age.  I'll let this red error persist until it's fixed CORRECTLY or until my licenses expire, whichever comes first.  Since I only have 2 months left before my subscription ends, and knowing how long it takes MS to fix something, I think I know which that will be.

     

    Sorry for the confusion, I stated that I removed AdAware 2007 untill this issue is resolved, however I forgot to mention that OneCare is green and that once this issue is resolved, I WILL re-install AdAware as it is a good tool for cleaning things up, as well as some other good tools.

     

    I wonder if the AdAware team know of this and working on a solution too....
    Saturday, February 2, 2008 4:30 AM
  •  

    I have lived with the last update where i had CPU usage of 100% after the prior update... NOW?? Remove adaware.. that removes the stuff that MS Live One Care doesnt find .. NEVER !!! .. I will switch to another program ... either tell me how to stop this craziness.. or i will cancel MS and switch to a program that doesnt try to be a monopoly this SATURDAY !!!!
    Saturday, February 2, 2008 4:41 AM
  • Looks a bit like anti-competitive behaviour to me.

     

    Unless I remove a competitor's application the traffic light warning system on OneCare is effectively deactivated.

     

    If MS don't fix this quick I'll write to my Member of the European Parliament to see if the Commission can't sort this one out.

     

    Saturday, February 2, 2008 12:35 PM
  •  

    just uninstall 2007 for now and download 2006 again.just dont update core.

    http://www.download.com/3405-8022-5153545.html

    untill this gets straightened out.i too like both these programs,but don't rely on just one.next wlc will tell us that spybot.sd will conflict.guess i'll be going back to norton.

    Saturday, February 2, 2008 1:41 PM
  • This is the last straw for me as well.  Not only does Microsoft take money from my account automatically to renew subscription, they want me to subscribe and charge more money!  I cannot get online help...I can't get anything!  I need an immediate refund if they can't fix this problem NOW!

     

    Saturday, February 2, 2008 2:37 PM
  • That's a bunch of bru-haha, sir and I assume you know that. AdWatch is a lot easier to turn off and\or remove than OneCare is. I don't even run AdWatch on my system. It is NOT the way Lavasoft developed their program, BUT is the way OneCare developed theirs if you read the dates, i.e. AdAware 2007 v the 1 Feb 2008 update  of OneCare. THAT doesn't even get into the issue that I DECIDE what is a performance issue on my computers. Are you Tech support from India or Pakistan, failing to comprehend the issue and\or LANGUAGE here? Not everybody is a NOOB. This should be an issue left up to the individual user. OneCare should have the option to allow the user to tell the program to ignore. What program(s) will be next? THAT IS THE ISSUE! Like I told  your FRIEND on LiveChat Support, a freaking meteor could conflict with OneCare's service! Perhaps that is something OneCare should worry about! Instead of beneficial programs that have been around for many moons longer than OneCare. Also I use Ccleaner as well. Soon that will be on the OneCare hit list as well! Or maybe Everquest or who knows what? Stick to the point, please! I'll reiterate since people can't seem to get the point..... I decide performance issues on my computers! Thank you for your time.

     

    Saturday, February 2, 2008 3:09 PM
  • I too was upset by the nature of the 'red alert' and am glad to see others are. WOLC's position on cookies is unclear to me. As I understand it some cookies are of legitimate value to me and some are working for the benefit of outside companies. I would like the one's sending back information to be identified and removed. Why does WOLC not do this? This is why I have been using Ad-Aware. Why doesn't Microsoft incorporate this and save me the trouble.

     

     

     

    Saturday, February 2, 2008 4:37 PM
  • I woke up this morning and learned that OneCare had updated and was now having a baby fit about the continued presence of Ad-Aware and McAfee Site Advisor on my machine. It is suggested on this page that the alert happened because the version of Ad-Aware being used is the paid version using real-time protection.  I have now verified via the Ad-Aware control panel what I already knew, that I am using the free version and that any real-time monitoring is not available or turned off. Yet in spite of this the OneCare icon is red and there is no way I can indicate that I want to ignore the alert, please dear OneCare, return to green status now like a good little robot. So, I have decided it will stay red since I have no intention of removing Ad-Aware or any future software that OneCare decides it will not consort with. It goes beyond the silly explanation given that all the items Ad-Aware eliminates can be eliminated via IE settings. It has to do with the fact that I am the user and the owner of my computer and the decision of what products to use in the removal of Adware or spyware is mine, not that of the engineer who wrote a wacky business rule that now causes OneCare software to barf out this alert. I say to that engineer that you are not only naive to think that OneCare can take care of every threat but that you risk lawsuits from both software vendors and users.  Different algorithms are used by different software products to detect and remove threats. One product cannot detect all threats. Users need to configure their systems as they see fit.

     

    I suggest that Microsoft quickly and immediately provide a way for OneCare users to click off a conflict and tell it to go away. I admit that other products can conflict due to real-time monitoring. I submit that it is best to provide documentation about these conflicts so users can best determine on their own what products to avoid and how to configure OneCare when other products are also being used.

    Saturday, February 2, 2008 7:21 PM
  • I have been a paid supporter of Ad-Aware Professional for over 5 years and a paying customer of OneCare for over a year.  I purchased OneCare because it was the only "working" anti-virus software compatible with Windows Vista at the time.  On December 31, 2007, Lavasoft ended all support updates for Ad-Aware SE Pro (which included Ad-Watch). 

    I contacted Lavasoft and was told Ad-Aware 2007 was the new product replacing Ad-Aware SE Pro.  So on January 4, 2008 I purchased a 3-year license for Ad-Aware 2007 Pro to include Ad-Watch.

    On Feb. 1, 2008 I renewed my OneCare subscription for another year.  Now, today, OneCare has downloaded updates, told me I needed to reboot, and after the reboot I got the WLOC Status: At Risk message.

    Regardless of who is at fault, it is utterly ridiculous to tell me I have to uninstall a program that, until now, worked without conflict and that I have paid for.  Now Microsoft is telling me that Ad-Aware is incompatible and has to be uninstalled.  So whether I uninstall OneCare or Ad-Aware 2007 I am out the money I paid for whichever product I must uninstall.  If I decide to uninstall OneCare then I have to find a new anti-virus product.

    Has the OneCare team been in contact with Lavasoft concerning the "potential severe performance problems" that Ad-Aware 2007 exhibits/causes? 
    Has the OneCare team considered offering the ability to "turn off" the conflicting code in OneCare if customers wish to continue using Ad-Aware 2007?

    In the past, software companies resolved issues and came to an agreement on one side or the other if there was a conflict. 
    Now it seems Microsoft is trying to squeeze out a company with a highly successful program and is taking the high road telling it's customers to uninstall the "offending" program rather than offering a solution. 

    This Machiavellian approach to software updates and roll-outs is one more reason why Microsoft has a very evil reputation in the computer world and why I call your company Microshaft.
    Saturday, February 2, 2008 7:26 PM
  • I am very upset about the lasted update for Windows OneCare (I have version 2.0.2500.22).  Now, my computer is continually "At Risk" just because I have the "unnecessary" application, Ad-aware 2007.  This is ridiculous!  I should be able to have other programs installed on my computer that do not conflict with OneCare.

    Please, is there anyway I can tell OneCare to ignore this problem?

    Thanks.
    Sunday, February 3, 2008 4:55 AM
  • Thanks for explaining that, I have the same issue (OneCare going RED).

    I may be willing to take the performance hit, although I have yet to experience it.

    Instability, however, is another matter altogether.

    Steve, how specifically does having two programs that scan for malware active on one machine cause instability?


    Thanks.
    Sunday, February 3, 2008 7:00 AM
  • I'm only going to comment here about the Ad-Aware 2007 issue as it pertains to the OneCare alert of a conflict. I have no knowledge about McAfee Site Advisor, nor does that supposed conflict have anything to do with Ad-Aware, so it's better discussed in the thread that Steve created to address that separate issue.

     

    I'll also only briefly mention that the cleaning of tracking cookies is a completely pointless function, since the operation of these cookies is such that they collect information while you are browsing, so removing them at the end of a session is useless and provides absolutely no protection whatsoever. The only way to protect from tracking cookies is to block them completely while browsing, which Internet Explorer does quite effectively within the Tools, Internet Options, Privacy tab, Advanced button dialog screen. Look elsewhere for how best to configure the Advanced privacy settings properly.

     

    Now, Ad-Aware 2007 and OneCare.

     

    As mentioned earlier, Ad-Aware 2007 has changed from previous versions in that it now operates as a service that runs at boot time of the PC. This is discussed on the Lavasoft Support forums at the folllowing link.

    http://www.lavasoftsupport.com/index.php?showtopic=9893

     

    Though the free version of Ad-Aware 2007 doesn't include the associated Ad-Watch real-time active mode protection, this service is still loaded at boot time to provide the application with elevated rights to cope with malware, even when the logged in user has limited rights themselves.

     

    Though this choice makes sense for the more effective removal of malware, it creates a new problem. The issue is that when Ad-Aware detects malware the service will attempt to 'take control' and remove the infection, which makes sense by iteself. However, if another anti-malware application also exists on the PC, it may also detect the same malware with its real-time protection at the same moment. Now you have an issue where two programs are competing to remove the same piece of malware at the same moment, i.e. a conflict.

     

    Though the above situation seems unlikely, it's actually possible in the case where malware has entered the system before a detection existed or even before the anti-malware application was installed. In fact, this type of detection is fairly common and was even desireable when the second application simply performed normal reads of the disk, since the real-time application would then detect and remove the malware before the scanning application even gained access to it.

     

    The real conflict between Ad-Aware and OneCare occurs because both applications now operate as a service. This means that a potential conflict is created where the two applications may detect and attempt to remove the same malware at the same time. Even though Ad-Aware isn't 'real-time', it's still going to think it's got control when you tell it to scan, so there is potential for conflict with another anti-spyware such as the portion of Windows Defender that's included in OneCare.

     

    The other potential situation is that even if both applications detect, alert and then wait for a user to respond, the answer isn't really obvious. Most users will make the assumption that if they tell both applications to remove the malware, at least one will do it. This is a bad decision because it creates the conflict already mentioned and at least one application will fail. The correct answer is to only remove with one application and either ignore or allow with the other. However, which one should you pick? The first one, the one you think will do the removal better?

     

    Basically, these questions are beyond the knowledge of almost all users and are simply better left to the application. This is exactly why complete protection suites like OneCare exist, since the chaos created by multiple alerting applications simply confuses the user and causes them to make mistakes. For this reason, allowing a conflicting security application to exist on the same PC is just asking for this type of issue and not helping with security at all.

     

    LavaSoft has chosen to use a service in the operation of their anti-spyware application, but unlike suites they don't provide a full range of protection. Their product might integrate well with some of the standalone anti-virus products that still exist, but I don't know if this is true. It's also possible they are beginning to include detections for other malware, though this seems unlikely for a product with Ad-Aware's background.

     

    In any case, I'd be concerned about attempting to run the new Ad-Aware with other real-time security applications and want to see it fully tested before I'd assume it worked properly. I don't assume that's the job of the OneCare Team, though I'd think it was in LavaSoft's best interest to make it happen if they believe it should work.

     

    OneCareBear

    Sunday, February 3, 2008 10:56 AM
    Moderator
  • Thank you for make this post! This is exactly what happened to me this morning. I now know I'm not alone and will continue to keep my Adware-2007 unless of course MS wants to reimburse me for the cost of my Adware.. besides, I like the color RED.
    Sunday, February 3, 2008 3:34 PM

  • I work in the IT industry.  I have for over 17 years now.

    the above assumptions are preposterous.

    An uninformed user would have no reason to have ad-aware as they wouldnt know why they need it.  So then this change does not seem to be in effect to protect these people.

    I have on my system Spybot Search and Destroy, Ad-Aware, and Windows Live One Care.  I use all 3 for a specific reason.  No 1 product can pick up everything.  I can run Ad-Aware and then Spybot and they will both pick up things that WLOC's detection does not pick up.

    Your uninformed users you speak of would not know this and would expect WOLC to be protecting them properly.  However, if it was then I wouldn't be able to find items with the ither 2 applications that need to be removed now would I?

    Whatever reason you made this change, and frankly I don't believe the reason I have seen thus far as WOLC and Ad-Aware 2007 have peacefully coexisted on my machine for quite a while.  Please undo it or tell me once and for all that it will not be undone so I can go to best buy and purchase new antivirus software today and remove your product.

    I purchased WOLC becasue I belived the cost was worth what it offered.  However, that valuation has changed with this "update".

    I will make sure to explain to everyone who asks me (and due to my longevity in this business I get asked alot) that WOLC is now a flawed product and not to waste their hard earned money on this farce from today forward if this issue is not fixed.  Which is sad since most people don't properly take care of their computer and WOLC WAS a viable alternative for them up till this addition.

    Frankly it is common practice in the IT industry to scan with multiple scanners as again no 1 product can pick up everything.  Perhaps if WOLC was more effective in it's apyware scanning attempts we wouldn't have to use other products.

    If this "fix" is going to stay in your product your product won't stay on my computers.  I already run a different antivirus product on 1 of my laptops so that if something becomes borked up in the antivirus on my other computers I still have something that I can use to get downloads and attempt to fix the problem.  I learned a long time ago not to put all my eggs in 1 basket.


    Sunday, February 3, 2008 3:48 PM
  • Sir or Ma'am, I assume by now that you are aware of two things. The moderators on OneCare blog are morons and that OneCare really screwed the pooch as of 1-31-08. My computer is the hub of my network and One Care tuned red 1 Feb 08 because my friends computer had AdAware 2007 installed on it. Against my better judgement I uninstalled AdAware 2007 on that computer, and guess what!?! My freaking computer STILL has OneCare as red.... saying this same computer has a conflicting program on it. NOW I'm trying to get beyond the fact that I am the head of the IT department of Electronic Sensors Inc of Wichita Ks. who also is a paying customer of Microsoft's, and I make second to second decisions on "PERFOMANCE" issues every freaking day, seven days a week!!!! But it's really difficult because I somehow have to convince myself I'm the moron here... And that I have to convince myself that a freaking program is smarter than I am on the performance of my machines!!!!  Now sir I am going to ask you simply and succinctly why doesn't OneCare give you the option of telling IT to ignore certain programs and allow everyone (including NOOB's) much less IT personell the option of deciding performance issues and conflicting programs, and to decide what programs are installed on their machines!!!! I also am going to assume you know what we believe are the ramifications of this act that the programmers of OneCare have done.... What programs are next? THIS NEEDS FIXED NOW!!! Or you people will be losing a lot of customers. I know this wasn't suggested by a Beta tester like me, this was put into force by a communist son of a *** who should be fired as of 1 Jan 08! Thank you for your time!!!

    Sunday, February 3, 2008 3:54 PM
  • I have been notified today that the Free Site Advisor that I've been using & enjoying now for many months is (all of a sudden) causing a conflict with OneCare, and have been asked to remove it. I have NO choice (even though I love the protection that Site Advisor provides to me). I am currently using the FREE trial of OneCare and I have considered purchasing the program. When the time comes to make my final decision, If I am still unable to use the Site Advisor, Along with OneCare, I will be buying the McAfee Security instead.

     The protection that program offers is not provided to us through OneCare. Please modify your service to ALLOW us all to use Sec.Advisor.... if we choose to!

                                                                                                        Thank You, DannC.

    Sunday, February 3, 2008 4:10 PM
  • I have used the Ad-Aware Pro for 7 years -- now Windows Live OneCare is saying that it is an "interferring program".  I unistalled but I have 2 computers and I just spent $60 on Lavasoft's programs.  How can I make this work?  There are attributes that I love with Ad-Aware 2007 Pro

     

    Please help me...

    Sunday, February 3, 2008 5:15 PM
  •  DannC wrote:

    I have been notified today that the Free Site Advisor that I've been using & enjoying now for many months is (all of a sudden) causing a conflict with OneCare, and have been asked to remove it. I have NO choice (even though I love the protection that Site Advisor provides to me). I am currently using the FREE trial of OneCare and I have considered purchasing the program. When the time comes to make my final decision, If I am still unable to use the Site Advisor, Along with OneCare, I will be buying the McAfee Security instead.

     The protection that program offers is not provided to us through OneCare. Please modify your service to ALLOW us all to use Sec.Advisor.... if we choose to!

                                                                                                        Thank You, DannC.

    Dannc,

     

    I am unable to move your post to the correct topic where McAfee SiteAdvisor is being discussed, so I'll simply provide the link to it below. Please look there for a disscusion of that separate issue, this thread is about Ad-Aware 2007 only.

     

    http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsOneCare/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2785883&SiteID=2&mode=1

     

    OneCareBear

    Sunday, February 3, 2008 5:36 PM
    Moderator
  • Onecare is telling me to remove Adaware 2007, which is the interfering program. This really sucks.

     

    The free version of AdAware is ran manually and isn't even on 99% of the time. If Onecare (and Norton too) did what they claim to do and remove spyware effectively I wouldn't need a program like AdAware. If I run AdAware after being online for a while it usually finds 50 to 100 spyware programs (mostly tracking cookies) especially if I use Internet Explorer, even with Onecare running.

     

    So MIcrosoft is doing it again. They are using proprietory devices to keep competing software out of the market.

     

    I downloaded Onecare as a free trial to see if I might want to put it on my other PCs. I guess Microsoft has made that decision for me.

    Sunday, February 3, 2008 6:29 PM
  •  Calador78 wrote:

    I work in the IT industry.  I have for over 17 years now.

    the above assumptions are preposterous.

    An uninformed user would have no reason to have ad-aware as they wouldnt know why they need it.  So then this change does not seem to be in effect to protect these people.

    I have on my system Spybot Search and Destroy, Ad-Aware, and Windows Live One Care.  I use all 3 for a specific reason.  No 1 product can pick up everything.  I can run Ad-Aware and then Spybot and they will both pick up things that WLOC's detection does not pick up.

    Your uninformed users you speak of would not know this and would expect WOLC to be protecting them properly.  However, if it was then I wouldn't be able to find items with the ither 2 applications that need to be removed now would I?

    Whatever reason you made this change, and frankly I don't believe the reason I have seen thus far as WOLC and Ad-Aware 2007 have peacefully coexisted on my machine for quite a while.  Please undo it or tell me once and for all that it will not be undone so I can go to best buy and purchase new antivirus software today and remove your product.

    I purchased WOLC becasue I belived the cost was worth what it offered.  However, that valuation has changed with this "update".

    I will make sure to explain to everyone who asks me (and due to my longevity in this business I get asked alot) that WOLC is now a flawed product and not to waste their hard earned money on this farce from today forward if this issue is not fixed.  Which is sad since most people don't properly take care of their computer and WOLC WAS a viable alternative for them up till this addition.

    Frankly it is common practice in the IT industry to scan with multiple scanners as again no 1 product can pick up everything.  Perhaps if WOLC was more effective in it's apyware scanning attempts we wouldn't have to use other products.

    If this "fix" is going to stay in your product your product won't stay on my computers.  I already run a different antivirus product on 1 of my laptops so that if something becomes borked up in the antivirus on my other computers I still have something that I can use to get downloads and attempt to fix the problem.  I learned a long time ago not to put all my eggs in 1 basket.

     

    Calador78,

     

    OneCare was specifically designed for the uninformed user, so by your logic they'd have no reason to use Ad-Aware in the first place, meaning there isn't an issue here.

     

    Regardless, Ad-Aware has made a change in the operation of their program which will require testing to validate that the products do co-exist properly. Whether this has been done yet or not isn't clear from the message OneCare provides, so it will require that LavaSoft and OneCare team members discuss the interoperation of their products.

     

    I have only discussed a likely reason the products may conflict during operation and as I stated in my other post I'd expect testing to confirm compatibility to be required. It appears that members of the LavaSoft Support forums have come to the same conclusions on their own.

    http://www.lavasoftsupport.com/index.php?showtopic=15530

     

    As for other products, the fact that we aren't seeing some of them listed indicates to me that there must be something specific to Ad-Aware 2007 causing OneCare to list it as a conflicting application. For example, Spybot Search and Destroy isn't listed and they've recently released a new version that notably still runs as a standalone scanner, not a service.

     

    Since the products you mentioned are each targeted at different segments of malware, I'd expect them to provide different results. For example, in the past Ad-Aware has focused much of its attention on adware products, which niether OneCare nor Spybot Search and Destroy attempt to remove, since it's generally installed by user request. Both Ad-Aware and Spybot S&D also detect and remove cookies, which OneCare doesn't and even the creators of Spybot S&D agree is better done by the browser. This doesn't make one product 'wrong' and another 'right', it simply means that the two products focus on different purposes.

     

    OneCareBear

    Sunday, February 3, 2008 6:34 PM
    Moderator
  • i believe there is another post about pro elsewhere - I believ that the problem lays with the fact that pro is scanning real time (unlike the free version) and this confilcts with onecare. What av package did you use before onecare?

     

    Tom 

    Sunday, February 3, 2008 6:53 PM
  • LG2008,

     

    I've split your post from the McAfee SiteAdvisor thread you posted in since that has nothing to do with Ad-Aware 2007.

     

    Here is a link to a thread where the Ad-Aware 2007 issue is being discussed. Read Steve and my posts within that thread to understand potential reasons for this, though we'll need a response from the OneCare Team itself to confirm what the real issue might be.

     

    http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsOneCare/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2745079&SiteID=2

     

    OneCareBear

     

    Sunday, February 3, 2008 6:53 PM
    Moderator
  • That last update forced me to remove AdAware from my computers.  The "1" icon turned red and I received a warning message saying that I had to remove AdAware because of compatibility issues with OneCare.

     

    1.  Version 2.0 of OneCare keeps changing my Privacy Settings from "Advanced--Allow First Party Cookies, Block Third Party Cookies" to "Medium".  The Medium Privacy Setting allows a ton of third party cookies onto my computer that my settings block and thus is less private than my settings.  Scanning with AdAware was a convenient way to remove those unwanted third party tracking cookies.  It is suspicious that I am no longer allowed to use that program with OneCare.  Perhaps Microsoft is making money from third parties by forcing me to allow their cookies on my computer?

     

    2.  I have also recently noticed when looking for other settings that OneCare is changing that when I have my Security Setting on High and my Privacy Settings as above, OneCare is changing my "High" Security Setting to "Custom".  Now I have absolutely no idea why anyone would write a security program that would change my Security Setting from "High".  I change it back as soon as I catch it, but any damage will have already been done.

     

    I have two months left on my subscription.  These things get fixed or I'm switching to something else.

     

    In the mean time, I'm setting up my Privacy Site Block feature in IE7 to block any cookies I get from any Microsoft, MSN, Zune, etc. websites.  Twice a day I will delete all cookies from my computer since I can no longer be sure what's on it.  I'm getting tired of going through the cookies list and weeding out the undesirable cookies that are put there because someone doesn't understand that my settings are more private than "Medium".

     

     

    Monday, February 4, 2008 7:13 AM
  •  

    The problem with Ad-Aware, according to the page header, is now marked as "answered." The problem with OneCareBear's post is simple. It doesn't answer or resolve the problem. He has stated in general terms a plausible explanation for why OneCare should force users to uninstall Ad-Aware, but, in spite of his supposed knowledge of the problem, has not been able to provide a specific answer. He can only give a likely, vague reason. He has yet to say when and how Microsoft software engineers will respond to our concerns, what specifically causes the conflict. Yet someone he could ask must exist, since someone made the decision to include this annoying feature in the update and decided for us how we should use the product based on their 'knowledge' of the problem. I ask a simple thing. Tell us exactly what the conflict is, in technical terms, and let us know how Microsoft is going to resolve the alert issue for Ad-Aware. Why is a simple answer so difficult instead of all these vague and not very useful excuses. This needs to be resolved. It's obvious a block of users will go away, including corporate users, if it is not.  It's a PR problem. What is the timeline to resolve this snafu? When will the update be fixed? How will it be fixed? That's what is needed. Explanations as to why the update is correct and why it will stay are are not helpful and more  importantly for Microsoft, may affect OneCare product sales. I work in IT in a state agency. I recommend products. I only recently started to use this product and had a favorable impression of it but until this is resolved I cannot recommend the product.
    Monday, February 4, 2008 8:05 AM
  •  OneCareBear wrote:


    ....The correct answer is to only remove with one application and either ignore or allow with the other. However, which one should you pick? The first one, the one you think will do the removal better?....


    OneCareBear



    Respectfully, that's the "Band-Aid" answer.  IMHO, the correct answer is a simple Windows-level file lock so that, in the unlikely (but possible) event that both programs attempt to access the same file at the same time, the event is trapped.

    When program A grabs the file, program B cannot access it and either waits for it to be released, displays a message or chooses to skip over it until the next scan.

    Cheers.
    Monday, February 4, 2008 9:16 AM
  •  CarmenDi0xide wrote:

     

    The problem with Ad-Aware, according to the page header, is now marked as "answered." The problem with OneCareBear's post is simple. It doesn't answer or resolve the problem. He has stated in general terms a plausible explanation for why OneCare should force users to uninstall Ad-Aware, but, in spite of his supposed knowledge of the problem, has not been able to provide a specific answer. He can only give a likely, vague reason. He has yet to say when and how Microsoft software engineers will respond to our concerns, what specifically causes the conflict. Yet someone he could ask must exist, since someone made the decision to include this annoying feature in the update and decided for us how we should use the product based on their 'knowledge' of the problem. I ask a simple thing. Tell us exactly what the conflict is, in technical terms, and let us know how Microsoft is going to resolve the alert issue for Ad-Aware. Why is a simple answer so difficult instead of all these vague and not very useful excuses. This needs to be resolved. It's obvious a block of users will go away, including corporate users, if it is not.  It's a PR problem. What is the timeline to resolve this snafu? When will the update be fixed? How will it be fixed? That's what is needed. Explanations as to why the update is correct and why it will stay are are not helpful and more  importantly for Microsoft, may affect OneCare product sales. I work in IT in a state agency. I recommend products. I only recently started to use this product and had a favorable impression of it but until this is resolved I cannot recommend the product.

    The thread was marked as answered the day of the first post. And I'm doing my best to combine a variety of threads and posts into this one as many people are clearly unhappy about this latest update to OneCare.

     

    I have asked for an official response from the OneCare team regarding the situation with AdAware 2007 (and McAfee Site Advisor) being marked as conflicting programs in the .22 update released 1/31/08. I don't know if we will get one.

     

    In the meantime, OneCareBear's response may be simple, but it is correct - either uninstall one of the two programs or ignore the red warning from OneCare about the conflict. I'm sorry to be blunt, but that's the way it is.

     

    As customers of OneCare, you can complain to support - (How to reach support (FAQ) - http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsOneCare/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2421771&SiteID=2)

    And as Lavasoft customers, you can complain to Lavasoft and point them to this URL - http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/support/isvfaq.htm

     

    -steve

    Monday, February 4, 2008 1:28 PM
    Moderator
  •  Opus5001 wrote:

    That last update forced me to remove AdAware from my computers.  The "1" icon turned red and I received a warning message saying that I had to remove AdAware because of compatibility issues with OneCare.

     

    1.  Version 2.0 of OneCare keeps changing my Privacy Settings from "Advanced--Allow First Party Cookies, Block Third Party Cookies" to "Medium".  The Medium Privacy Setting allows a ton of third party cookies onto my computer that my settings block and thus is less private than my settings.  Scanning with AdAware was a convenient way to remove those unwanted third party tracking cookies.  It is suspicious that I am no longer allowed to use that program with OneCare.  Perhaps Microsoft is making money from third parties by forcing me to allow their cookies on my computer?

     

    2.  I have also recently noticed when looking for other settings that OneCare is changing that when I have my Security Setting on High and my Privacy Settings as above, OneCare is changing my "High" Security Setting to "Custom".  Now I have absolutely no idea why anyone would write a security program that would change my Security Setting from "High".  I change it back as soon as I catch it, but any damage will have already been done.

     

    I have two months left on my subscription.  These things get fixed or I'm switching to something else.

     

    In the mean time, I'm setting up my Privacy Site Block feature in IE7 to block any cookies I get from any Microsoft, MSN, Zune, etc. websites.  Twice a day I will delete all cookies from my computer since I can no longer be sure what's on it.  I'm getting tired of going through the cookies list and weeding out the undesirable cookies that are put there because someone doesn't understand that my settings are more private than "Medium".

     

     

    I merged your post to the AdAware discussion based on the title. However, your message is really more about the problem with Security settings that OneCare is monitoring and changing automatically. The issue with this setting being lowered by OneCare has been reported. I don't know the status, but I agree that this is an annoying problem.

    -steve

    Monday, February 4, 2008 1:33 PM
    Moderator
  •  Joseph Hargrave wrote:
    Sir or Ma'am, I assume by now that you are aware of two things. The moderators on OneCare blog are morons and that OneCare really screwed the pooch as of 1-31-08. My computer is the hub of my network and One Care tuned red 1 Feb 08 because my friends computer had AdAware 2007 installed on it. Against my better judgement I uninstalled AdAware 2007 on that computer, and guess what!?! My freaking computer STILL has OneCare as red....

    I'm sorry that you believe that we are morons.

    I can't tell you what else OneCare believes is conflicting, but you may want to contact support to determine what that may be and to voice your complaints about this change made in the .22 update.

    How to reach support (FAQ) - http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsOneCare/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2421771&SiteID=2

    -steve

    Monday, February 4, 2008 4:07 PM
    Moderator
  •  

    My Live OneCare recently went red complaining about the presence of AdAware 2007 on my machine and advised me to uninstall it. It has been there for some time, why it only now complaining about it?

     

    Just in case there may be a conflict, I did unload AdWatch, a memory resident utility.

     

    I only occasionally run an adware scan manually.

     

    How in earth can a non-memory resident utility interfere with Live OneCare?

    Monday, February 4, 2008 9:38 PM
  •  Opus5001 wrote:

    That last update forced me to remove AdAware from my computers.  The "1" icon turned red and I received a warning message saying that I had to remove AdAware because of compatibility issues with OneCare.

     

    1.  Version 2.0 of OneCare keeps changing my Privacy Settings from "Advanced--Allow First Party Cookies, Block Third Party Cookies" to "Medium".  The Medium Privacy Setting allows a ton of third party cookies onto my computer that my settings block and thus is less private than my settings.  Scanning with AdAware was a convenient way to remove those unwanted third party tracking cookies.  It is suspicious that I am no longer allowed to use that program with OneCare.  Perhaps Microsoft is making money from third parties by forcing me to allow their cookies on my computer?

     

    2.  I have also recently noticed when looking for other settings that OneCare is changing that when I have my Security Setting on High and my Privacy Settings as above, OneCare is changing my "High" Security Setting to "Custom".  Now I have absolutely no idea why anyone would write a security program that would change my Security Setting from "High".  I change it back as soon as I catch it, but any damage will have already been done.

     

    I have two months left on my subscription.  These things get fixed or I'm switching to something else.

     

    In the mean time, I'm setting up my Privacy Site Block feature in IE7 to block any cookies I get from any Microsoft, MSN, Zune, etc. websites.  Twice a day I will delete all cookies from my computer since I can no longer be sure what's on it.  I'm getting tired of going through the cookies list and weeding out the undesirable cookies that are put there because someone doesn't understand that my settings are more private than "Medium".

    Opus5001,

     

    I noticed the first issue with the Advanced privacy settings being reset to defaults myself and wasn't happy with the reduced security, so I made a comment about this over two weeks ago. At the time I was running the 2.0.2500.14 original release version of Onecare 2.0.

     

    When I received the 2.0.2500.22 update about a week ago I immediately tested this and discoverd that this specific setting is no longer changed, at least not after the initial update if at all. I hadn't really noticed any others of the supposed 24 such settings included in OneCare 2.0, so I haven't tested them.

     

    Have you received the .22 version update yet? If so, check it for this change to see if it's back to normal operation for both of these settings.

     

    OneCareBear

    Monday, February 4, 2008 9:48 PM
    Moderator
  •  JungleBoi wrote:


    Respectfully, that's the "Band-Aid" answer.  IMHO, the correct answer is a simple Windows-level file lock so that, in the unlikely (but possible) event that both programs attempt to access the same file at the same time, the event is trapped.

    When program A grabs the file, program B cannot access it and either waits for it to be released, displays a message or chooses to skip over it until the next scan.

    Cheers.

    JungleBoi,

     

    Yes, in fact that's probably how most security applications deal with it already. However, that's the problem, since when a user picks two programs to run together it's up to him to determine how they will interact when such a conflict occurs.

     

    If you've ever listened to what happens when two anti-malware organizations have a conflict in operation you'll see the issue. They can't even agree on what specifically is a virus, spyware or sub-types of either. Do you really think they'll ever agree on standard methods of handling conflicts between their operating programs?

     

    Sorry, but I'll push the all-in-one suite approach to anyone less than a software/computer engineer. That's the target market of OneCare anyway.

     

    OneCareBear

     

    < EDIT > And for those of you who want to read something into this about the situation between Ad-Aware 2007 and OneCare, don't bother! This was only in response to JungleBoi's general comment, I still have no specific knowledge of why OneCare is indicating a conflict with Ad-Aware 2007, just theories based on what we already know.

    Monday, February 4, 2008 10:31 PM
    Moderator
  •  sailorken wrote:

     

    My Live OneCare recently went red complaining about the presence of AdAware 2007 on my machine and advised me to uninstall it. It has been there for some time, why it only now complaining about it?

     

    Just in case there may be a conflict, I did unload AdWatch, a memory resident utility.

     

    I only occasionally run an adware scan manually.

     

    How in earth can a non-memory resident utility interfere with Live OneCare?

    I'm merging your thread to the lengthy discussion already underway about this topic.

    -steve

    Tuesday, February 5, 2008 2:17 AM
    Moderator
  • Hopefuly the problem can be fixed as both programs are good and the choice would be hard but 2 my knolage no other all in one with real time scaning has problems with ad-aware 07.
    As the free has the service but not real time scaning the chance of them both finding the same file at the same time and deciding to take action decreases from highly unlikly to extreamly unlikly.
    There would have to be a way for onecare to tell if realtime scaning is enabled. (Or lavasoft could work with MS to create a way and release it  in there next build update)
    Does anyone know if spyobot search and distroy will have problems with WLOC due to teatimer's realtime scaning of the registry for changes due to spyware? and its prosess monitering.

    I segest everyone who has payed for ad-aware 07 to contact lavasofts technical suport as they say they try and resolve everyones issues and the more people contacting everyone the better
    Tuesday, February 5, 2008 3:25 AM
  • I am also deeply concerned by this issue.  I choose One Care initially because I was Vista.  Please count me as NOT HAPPY.

     

    Wednesday, February 6, 2008 1:56 AM
  • I ue Ad-Aware all the time and find it to be one of the best anti-spyware programs. How do turn my "shield" to green or am I forced to not know the status of my WLOC which I have paid for. It's bad enough that most of us have to deal with a yellow shield because we don't want that terribly slow anti-fishing filter running. With the money and manpower that MS has why don't they try to make te best anti-virus/anti-spyware out there??

    Wednesday, February 6, 2008 3:15 PM
  •  

    Unfortunately, Onecare isnt good enough at finding spyware and trojans to rely on soley.

     

    For example...  I run onecare live on all of my systems.  I started having RDP connections fail almost every time to be connection based.   I ran a full scan with onecare live 2.0... no issues.  I then downloaded Adaware 2007 free edition and it discovered 2 trojans and removed them from my system.   I no longer have the RDP issues...

     

    Adaware wasn't conflicting with my onecare because it wasn't even loaded on my system until onecare live came up empty.   Then 2 days after I load adaware and it "saves the day" for me.  Onecare live gets jealous and flags the savior program adaware as a risk.

     

    The real risk was believing that onecare live, by itself, could protect my system. 

    Thursday, February 7, 2008 2:22 AM
  •  Christopher 330 wrote:

     

    The real risk was believing that onecare live, by itself, could protect my system. 

    Thanks for sharing your experience. I guess the truth is that *no* protection is foolproof and that the malware writers and distributors are always finding ways to get through the defenses. It is a never ending battle.

     

    I think I understand the reasoning of the OneCare team for the warning that AdAware2007 can be a conflict, but I don't know how critical that conflict is. Since it now runs as a service, even if it is not actively protecting the PC, the risk for conflict is that much greater. Whether it is a performance concern or a potential crashing issue, or worse, a situation that actually exposes the system to greater risk, I don't know and await a response from the OneCare team on it.

     

    In the meantime, my recommendation remains to remove AdAware2007 and to install it when you wish to run it and uninstall again after the scan. Alternatively, use online scanners, such as the ones from www.ewido.net and http://www.eset.com/ and, of course, practice safe computing practices so that an infection is less likely to make it past the OneCare defenses.

     

    -steve

    Thursday, February 7, 2008 1:19 PM
    Moderator
  • I merged your post into the thread where this topic is being discussed at length.

    If you choose not to remove AdAware 2007, OneCare will continue to be in a red status due to the conflict that we are awaiting an explanation about.

    -steve

     

    Thursday, February 7, 2008 2:45 PM
    Moderator
  • "This is exactly why complete protection suites like OneCare exist,..."

     

    Here you would have us believe that OneCare is thorough.

    The truth is that AdAware finds and removes things that are not picked up by OneCare.

    They are both needed, and AdAware is is very good program!

    Give it back to us!

    Friday, February 8, 2008 4:22 AM
  • Users still want the option to ignore the red warning with Ad-Aware.   The only conflict problem seen by this user is the red status of One Care.  If it does not cease, One Care is out...

     

    Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:53 AM
  •  Deacon Dave wrote:

    "This is exactly why complete protection suites like OneCare exist,..."

     

    Here you would have us believe that OneCare is thorough.

    The truth is that AdAware finds and removes things that are not picked up by OneCare.

    They are both needed, and AdAware is is very good program!

    Give it back to us!

     

    I agree! I've been using WLOC since it came out and have had to use Ad-Aware and Spy Bot S&D to clean up what is missed by each of them. Leave it to Microsoft to figure out a way to engineer and release an "update" to their product that makes their customers more vulnerable! The worst part is the lack of response by the MS WLOC engineers to their paying customers like me and even to the WLOC forum moderators who are made to look like lackeys and fools trying to cover up this debacle. C'mon MS, don't give us anymore BS, show us you that you care! Your product isn't perfect (we're okay with that) but you're making us feel that WLOC should have been named "NoneCare"...

     

    DON'T WANT TO LOOK AT THE RED WLOC ICON: Right click on the Notification Area (next to the clock) on the Taskbar, select Properties to edit Taskbar and Start Menu, select the Taskbar tab, in Notification Area click box for Hide inactive icons, click the Customize button, locate and click on the item Windows Live OneCare, next to the WLOC name is the icon behavior action: SELECT ALWAYS HIDE. This way you can use WLOC and Ad-Aware w/o seeing red until MS fixes their gaffe or some 12 year old posts his hack/crack on the internet...

    Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:57 PM
  • Honesto, I just want to clarify that the moderators are not covering it up or trying to. We're speculating as to the cause of the "conflict" warning and wondering, along with the rest of you, what the decision making process for adding a program to the list of conflicting programs is or was.

     

    I would be interested in reading what AdAware and Spybot are detecting and removing other than 3rd party tracking cookies. I suspect that Microsoft would also like to know that.

    Follow the instructions in this post, http://forums.microsoft.com/WindowsOneCare/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=662566&SiteID=2, to report malware that is not cleaned by OneCare and to get help in removal.

     

    -steve

    Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:43 PM
    Moderator
  • Fellow ripped consumers, can we all agree to this below?

     

    If an update does not turn our icons green and permanently resolve this issue, we remove OneCare on February 18, 2008, and go with another program for 1 year minimum?

     

    Microsoft has disrespected us, ignored us, a treated us as if we are stupid, as well a dictaded to us what we can or cannot run on our computers!

     

    Let's do it! National press anyone?

     

    Reply in private to turnmyred2green@sogetthis.com

    Smile
    Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:15 PM
  • With all due respect, Fullcontact, I don't see how you can expect a program update in 4 days. I understand your annoyance about the situation, but until we hear from Microsoft *why exactly* they made the decision to add AdAware 2007 and other programs to the list of conflicting programs to check for, asking for a program update to "fix" this is a bit premature. On the other hand, Microsoft is taking a rather long time to respond to this issue, which concerns me.

    You are, of course, free to use whatever security software you wish, and you can ask Microsoft for a refund due to this change. I can't tell you that you'll get a refund, but you can always ask. Note that I suspect (without reading the legal mumbo jumbo of the license agreement) that we agreed to turn over decisions about security to Microsoft/OneCare when we installed OneCare, by the way...

    -steve

    Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:39 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi

    Just found this fourm.

    I tried the Lavasoft fourm and I could sign in but never post, after 3 emails to Lavasoft now I cant even sign in????

    I have 3 systems with ONECARE one, a XP, has stayed green, two have gone red, one a XP, another VISTA.

    The XP was first to go red and never told me why just said go to online question section but what to ask???

    Then Vista went red next day but said lavasoft program must go. Onecare is off RED XP and free AOL system is

    on it now. The Vista system has one time turned off my ONECARE, it was easy to put back on????

    I am to renew in MAY on all 3 but like others I am tired seeing RED, its never good to see RED.

    I ran a test long time ago on ONECARE 1st from IE I had it get rid of everything it could then I ran ONECARE full tune up,

    last I ran lavasoft and it found only a batch of cookies but it found them.

    This whole thing is almost the last straw for me and microsoft, so I have a 4th very old system with just LINUX. I dont do all that much with a system and dont need as much as Windows has and all my systems are old and cant keep up with

    needs of VISTA. I am retired and cant afford the dual core, huge ram and hard drives needed.

    So someone above says get rid of ONECARE for me its almost get rid of MICROSOFT

    A thought, very old, 512meg ram, NO HARD DRIVE, a P3 micro at 1.1gig, system buss at 133meg, a USB stick to save

    all my settings, to speed up boot, running a LIVE LINUX CD boots and shuts down way faster than any of my XPs or VISTA.

    SECURITY cant be better, no hard drive, I take out the memory stick when I shut down leaving a dead system with no

    trace of me or anyone, next time a new reboot.

    Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:25 PM
  • This is a email I sent to LAVASOFT and a copy to MICROSOFT. Microsoft has made their move.

     

    When I turned on my VISTA system today MICROSOFT had turned off ONECARE and WINDOWS DEFENDER leaving my system open to what ever came around. I could not turn back on either untill AD-aware was uninstalled. So for me to continue with lavasoft I would need a firewall, spyware, and virus program all in one because MICROSOFT wont play with you anymore. They have played their card.
    Friday, February 15, 2008 1:01 PM
  • Well fellow OneCare victims, I could not even wait for my own deadline. I just uninstalled OneCare forever. They ca KMA. I'll badmouth there attitude, arrogance and products til the day I die. Adios Microsoft MF'rs

    Saturday, February 16, 2008 2:20 AM
  •  earlytv wrote:

    This is a email I sent to LAVASOFT and a copy to MICROSOFT. Microsoft has made their move.

     

    When I turned on my VISTA system today MICROSOFT had turned off ONECARE and WINDOWS DEFENDER leaving my system open to what ever came around. I could not turn back on either untill AD-aware was uninstalled. So for me to continue with lavasoft I would need a firewall, spyware, and virus program all in one because MICROSOFT wont play with you anymore. They have played their card.

    Microsoft *did not* turn off OneCare because you had AdAware on. The only thing you will *ever* get is a warning status from OneCare about the potential conflict with AdAware 2007.

    You encountered another problem - quite possibly due to the conflict, but I suspect due to some other issue.

    And, Defender is *always* turned off by OneCare as it includes the protection of Defender. Running both is not recommended.

    -steve

    Saturday, February 16, 2008 2:21 AM
    Moderator
  • At power up I had warning Onecare was turned off, then at options I had, turn on Onecare and turn on Defender, both did nothing when clicked, back on first screen was still uninstall AD-aware which worked, guess what, now turn on Defender now worked which I did first, then turn on Onecare worked which then turned Defender back off. Now if your trying to tell me these were not linked some how I would have a hard time with that!!!!
    I have AD-aware on a USB memory stick now and it installs fast from there asking for 2 updates then I can run it.
    It looks like OneCare dont see it , at least for the 2 hours I had system on, then I uninstall before shut off, GUESS WHAT IT STILL FINDS THINGS ONECARE DOES NOT.
    My 3rd system, with XP, has for 1st time, gone red. I will do nothing like I did on the VISTA system and see if OneCare does same, TURN OFF and not turn back on.  I have systems on for short times each day but multi times in a day. I dont just leave them on. The Vista is the general do all system, one XP is for CONDO treasure, condo web site work and 2nd XP is for all my WIFEs dig pictures for touch up, printing ect. The old slow LINUX is starting to be a general system which I am on now. I ran a Speak Easy internet speed test on old linux and like Vista system it begs the meter with Chicago as source so even though old it keeps up. I use Road Runners fastest service with a 4 spot router.
    Saturday, February 16, 2008 6:54 AM
  • Lets look at this a little more logicaly

     

    1) OneCare Runs as a service that starts when windows loads.

     

    2) If too many programs are set to start up, this slows the startup process of the PC.

     

    3) Many of the startup programs like the various messangers, volume level controlls for sound hardware, Background pictures, screen sizes all slow down the entire PC and take up memory.

     

    4) The free version of Ad-Aware runs as a service, but does absolutely nothing but take up memory, UNTILL you physacly open the application to do a scan.

     

    5) If OneCare is scheduled to perform a system scan at the same time you run a scan with Ad-Aware AND BOTH programs attempt to scan the same file at the exact same time. IT WILL CAUSE SYSTEM INSTABILITY and possably cause a kernal dump, after which the system will reboot.  However this is RARE, but it can happen.

     

    6) In my opinion Ad-Aware is nothing more than a cleaning tool to speed up the PC.  It is not a single solution that can Defragment my drive, Be a FireWall, Antivirus, and Backup utility, etc....  Ad-Aware is for checking certain registry keys, and certain and specific files.  It also gathers cookies/recently used items and gives you the option to clean them.

     

    7) OneCare is an efective Antivirus, Firewall, and backup tool that performs tasks that Ad-Aware DOES NOT do and Does Not claim to do.  If there is a mis-understandng about this then go to the Ad-Aware website and see for yourself.

     

    8) All programs will function more smoothly if only the main programs required to run the PC and keep it safe are the only programs scheduled start on a power-up or reboot, including services.  This is true with ALL operating systems, not just Microsoft Windows.

     

    9) Most users are on a perminent connection to the internet, EVEN BEFORE the operating system loads due to the nature of DSL/Cable/T1/T2/T3/etc...

     

    10) OneCare is active nearly immediately upon the CPU telling the hard drive to load the Windows OS.  The first thing the OS loads is the Hardware Drivers so your Motherboard can communicate with the Hard drives, CD/DVD Roms, USB devices etc... Then OneCare/Ad-Aware, etc..

     

    11) Ad-Aware 2007 is trying to load at about the same time as OneCare and Ad-Aware free doesn't do anything untill you click its icon to start it.

     

    13) Ad-Aware 2007, free and non free version, is a tool to perform a task while you are browsing the web or online

     

        A) Ad-Aware does not scan for a majority of viruses or any viruses and does not claim to.

        B) Ad-Aware is not a firewall (Although Lavasoft does make one it is not included with any version of Ad-Aware)

        C) Ad-Aware only protects the PC from what is known as malware, and cleans up cookies(freeing up space)

            and MRU's (Most Recently Used) documents(freeing up some of the system registry).

        D) Cookies and MRU's are only dangerous to keep for the following reasons:

            1) You don't trust the website that created them

            2) You are conducting Illegal Activities online using the FCC's Federal Communications Lines (All U.S.

                telephone/Networking Lines and airways including WiFi)

     

    14) This conflict with Ad-Aware will happen eventualy with ANY/ALL antivirus software, not just OneCare, provided that both pieces of software try to access/load the same file/program at the exact same time. Mainly exicutables and DLL's (Dynamic Linked Libraries).

     

    15) OneCare is the first program to actualy catch this conflict which can cause System Instability and cause a crash, which in turn will cause you to lose your work or unsaved information.  Atleast to my knowledge it is the first.

     

    ------------

     

    That being said, I Like the Ad-Aware tool as much as everyone else, I personaly don't have any reason to believe that Ad-Aware and OneCare are competitors because they perform different functions but those functions both require scanning and monitoring system files, the CONFLICTING APPLICATION problem.

     

    Only one piece of software needs to, or should, monitor system files, It should be at the users discression to determine which piece of software better protects their assets.

     

    For me, I choose OneCare over Ad-Aware because it physicaly offers more protection for my online and ofline experiance.  I am looking at this Logicaly, which software offers the best protection for my needs?

     

    An application that acts as a firewall, antivirus, and backup is the one I choose and currently that is OneCare(Since Iv'e had greater problems with other AntiVirus, FireWall, and Backup software venders), Ad-Aware is not and does not claim, as I stated before, to be a firewall, antivirus, or backup.

     

    Those three features, In my opinion, should be included and coded into the operating system, weather it is Microsoft Windows, Linux, Mac, etc.. as it makes a more stable system both online and off.

     

    Some people are laying the blame of this issue on OneCare/Microsoft and soon other Antivirus venders.  This is all because of a mis-understanding of the function of the two pieces of software and how they perform that function.

    Saturday, February 16, 2008 9:57 AM
  • Actually, the source of the problem is quite simple and freely admitted by Lavasoft's own Jona Bolin in his comment at Lavasoft Addresses Conflict with Windows LiveOneCare (Not!) in which he states: 

    "The only time a problem occurs is when you are running the realtime protection features of Ad-Aware 2007 Plus/Pro (Ad-Watch), at which point LiveOneCare might terminate prematurely."

    Since Ad-Aware 2007 (Free) also includes the Ad-Watch component, WLOC is correctly warning customers of the possible conflict.  I would suggest users of both Windows Live OneCare and Ad-Aware 2007 (Free) refer to the post and screen captures by Microsoft MVP Donna Buenaventura at Windows Live OneCare and Ad-Aware 2007 incompatibility issue where Donna illustrates what the Windows Live OneCare screen captures mean, explaining that she has had no issues running both WLOC and Ad-Aware 2007 (Free).

    It wasn't until AAW 2007 was released that all components were included in the same downloaded.  Prior to that, Lavasoft had a separate version for Plus and Pro customers.  With those components included, but not accessible, in the free version, I agree with japreja's expectation that other vendors will also report similar conflicts. Trend Micro even includes their own products as well as Ad-Aware as necessary to be uninstalled. See EN-1035951.




    Saturday, February 16, 2008 6:02 PM
  • It seems to me that, if Ad-Aware 2007 (free) is capable of causing Windows Live OneCare to terminate prematurely, then other programs (a virus-infected one, for example) could also cause WLOC to terminate prematurely. If this is the case, WLOC is not sufficiently robust and Microsoft needs to improve its durability rather than encouraging its customers to dilute their malware protection by removing Ad-Aware.

     

    Given that it is reported to have DNA in common with WLOC, I wonder if ForeFront also is susceptable to premature termination in the event Ad-Aware (or another program with simialr characteristics) is installed.

    Monday, February 18, 2008 2:55 PM
  • I believe that "terminate prematurely" is rare and should never happen. What will more than likely be the case is that performance will suffer. Yes, Forefront uses the same engine as OneCare. Note that the issue is that you should never have more than one service actively intercepting calls to the file system to scan files loading into memory as this can impact performance. This is *not* a limitation unique to OneCare/Forefront.

    Your speculation that a virus infected program could cause the failure of the scan engine is speculation at this point, however valid. Note that msmpeng will restart when it fails, so I believe that the engineers have taken this into consideration. You don't want your scan engine to have to keep restarting or consuming excessive CPU due to a conflicting service or application, however.

    -steve

     

    Monday, February 18, 2008 3:41 PM
    Moderator
  • I recognize the performance risk of two scanners (perhaps redundantly) inspecting the file system data stream but wouldn't the slowdown be additive? If WLOC's contribution is negligible and A-A's is negligible, I'd be surprised if their combination were a crippling slowdown.

     

    But independent of whether it would be noticably slower if two scanners were intercepting the file system calls, isn't it the case that Ad-Aware 2007 (free) does not intercept the file system calls? A-A (free) doesn't provide real-time protection and scans only on-demand. Isn't WLOC (incorrectly) concluding that it intercepts file system calls simply because A-A is implemented with a service?

     

    All this is academic. In the final analysis,

    1. WLOC has a (worthwhile) feature whereby it turns its tray icon red when there is a condition that is putting the computer at risk.
    2. Under a condition that is not putting the computer at risk (although arguably slowing it down), WLOC is raising an alert.
    3. Since there is but one shade of red, WLOC is camouflaging genuine hazards if they occur, essentially eliminating the (worthwhile) feature mentioned in 1.

    I won't try to guess what wrong-headed thinking "inspired" this change to WLOC. I'll resist the temptation to suspect anti-competitive motives. What is definite is that this change does one of two things --- either it denies me the benefit of Ad-Aware 2007 (free) or it denies me the benefit of WLOC's tray icon alarm.

     

    Monday, February 18, 2008 9:07 PM
  •  JRElliott wrote:

    All this is academic. In the final analysis,

    1. WLOC has a (worthwhile) feature whereby it turns its tray icon red when there is a condition that is putting the computer at risk.
    2. Under a condition that is not putting the computer at risk (although arguably slowing it down), WLOC is raising an alert.
    3. Since there is but one shade of red, WLOC is camouflaging genuine hazards if they occur, essentially eliminating the (worthwhile) feature mentioned in 1.

    I won't try to guess what wrong-headed thinking "inspired" this change to WLOC. I'll resist the temptation to suspect anti-competitive motives. What is definite is that this change does one of two things --- either it denies me the benefit of Ad-Aware 2007 (free) or it denies me the benefit of WLOC's tray icon alarm.

     

    And on this we both agree!

    Until I read a definitive response from the OneCare team on this issue, then I remain suspect about the warning, though I can accept the theories. I don't believe that there were any motives to this warning, but a sincere attempt to identify conflicting programs based on support and testing experiences. My issue remains with the lack of detailed information from Microsoft on the issue. And your point about the jump to a red warning that cannot be ignored is valid if the warning is simply a performance issue.

    -steve

    Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:49 AM
    Moderator
  •  Stephen Boots wrote:

    I believe that "terminate prematurely" is rare and should never happen.

    -steve

     

     

    RARE???

    In bios I dont have a boot from CD set only boot from HARD DRIVE. I let a bootable CD in the drive, forgot, because I wanted some files from it. Next reboot of system and ONECARE shut down again????? I saw during boot the cd lite came on and what it was doing???? I took CD out and ONECARE was fine again, put CD back in again and ONECARE shut down again, this shutdown or not only during startup.

    JUST HOW MANY ITEMS ARE GOING TO SHUT OFF ONECARE?????????????

    Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:00 PM
  • I have no idea why OneCare failed with a CD ROM in your drive at boot time, but my reply was that I suspect that AdAware causing OneCare to literally crash was rare.

    I trust that your screaming question in the closing line of your post is rhetorical, as I can't answer that. I would prefer that the answer was "zero."

    -steve

     

    Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:45 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi everyone!

     

    I switched to Mcafee due to this red icon/conflicting program/ harrassment/arrogance B.S. of Microsoft. It works great and wow! It doesn't conflict with any other program and I can use anything I want on my PC. How about that, a company that resects the rights of it's customers! Abandon the sinking ship people. Mcafee. Norton. AVG. Anything but OneCare. Spread the word!!!

    Tuesday, February 19, 2008 10:56 PM
  •  Fullcontact wrote:

    / harrassment/arrogance B.S. of Microsoft.

    A little harsh, no?

     

    I won't disagree that the red icon is annoying, but even AdAware acknowledges the potential for conflict.

    You really think that just because McAfee, Norton, etc, don't report a conflict, that you won't encounter problems? I once repaired a PC that had McAfee, Norton, *and* AOL's security software installed and active, albeit rather broken in a convoluted sort of way. The PC was so slow that it took 30 minutes or more to boot. The *only* problem was the 3 security packages in conflict with each other. Once I removed 2 of the 3, it ran like a dream. Okay, that's an extreme example, but *none* of the 3 reported any problems in detecting the other packages, if they even looked for them.

    -steve

    Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:34 AM
    Moderator
  •  Stephen Boots wrote:

    <snipped stuff>

    Until I read a definitive response from the OneCare team on this issue, then I remain suspect about the warning, though I can accept the theories.

    <more snipped stuff>

    -steve

     

    Steve ---  

     

    About three weeks ago (01 Feb 2008, 3:21 PM UTC), in reply to someone who was "animated" about the big red one, you said "I will, however, see if I can get some sort of a response from the OneCare team as to the specifics of this issue."

     

    Seems like you hadn't heard anything as of 18-Feb. I'll recklessly assume that if you had gotten some sort of response, it would have appeared here.

     

    I'll also recklessly assume that, had they received a request for information from you on behalf of this august assembly, they surely would have replied.

     

    I therefore have to conclude that the entire OneCare team is on an off-site retreat (perhaps on the planet they came from) and won't be replying 'til they return.

     

    Any speculation when that might be? Maybe it's time to tug on their capes again, y'think?

     

    --- Cheers, JRE

    Thursday, February 21, 2008 5:51 PM
  • Hi, JRE, I am *always* tugging on their capes. :-)

    I know that the issue with the conflicting programs is a hot topic at Microsoft. I don't know the status, but I expect that some sort of public acknowledgment will be forthcoming. Although I am a bit perturbed by the length of time it is taking, I suspect that the delay is due to lots of behind the scenes stuff with the legals and PR people - and, perhaps even discussions with the makers of the identified conflicting programs...

    Hopefully, we'll hear sooner than later. I agree that 3 weeks seems rather long.

    -steve

     

    Friday, February 22, 2008 1:38 AM
    Moderator
  • Scrolling through this and other forums, the moderators keep insisting the conflict is due to "real-time" processes running in Ad-Aware. I understand this. But I'm using the Personal version (free), it does not have any processes running in real-time. Ad-Watch and Process-Watch are not even a part of Ad-Aware Personal or at least not activated.

    I've used Ad-Aware for years and it catches things that other programs do not. Granted, usually it's just tracking cookies.

    But all the same, I prefer to have a back-up which is what I use Ad-Aware for.

    I'm also very satisfied with OneCare, I have 3 licenses for home and 3 for work, but I don't like the idea of being told "OneCare is maintaining your PC making the following programs unnecessary". The other virus scanners don't seem to have a problem with Ad-Aware.

    Friday, February 22, 2008 3:28 PM
  •  tomturkey wrote:

    Scrolling through this and other forums, the moderators keep insisting the conflict is due to "real-time" processes running in Ad-Aware. I understand this. But I'm using the Personal version (free), it does not have any processes running in real-time. Ad-Watch and Process-Watch are not even a part of Ad-Aware Personal or at least not activated.

    I've used Ad-Aware for years and it catches things that other programs do not. Granted, usually it's just tracking cookies.

    But all the same, I prefer to have a back-up which is what I use Ad-Aware for.

    I'm also very satisfied with OneCare, I have 3 licenses for home and 3 for work, but I don't like the idea of being told "OneCare is maintaining your PC making the following programs unnecessary". The other virus scanners don't seem to have a problem with Ad-Aware.

    I think you overlooked the link early in this thread to the AdAware forum post where the fact that the service is always on for the free version, too.

    -steve

    Friday, February 22, 2008 4:20 PM
    Moderator
  •  Stephen Boots wrote:
     tomturkey wrote:

    Scrolling through this and other forums, the moderators keep insisting the conflict is due to "real-time" processes running in Ad-Aware. I understand this. But I'm using the Personal version (free), it does not have any processes running in real-time. Ad-Watch and Process-Watch are not even a part of Ad-Aware Personal or at least not activated.

    I've used Ad-Aware for years and it catches things that other programs do not. Granted, usually it's just tracking cookies.

    But all the same, I prefer to have a back-up which is what I use Ad-Aware for.

    I'm also very satisfied with OneCare, I have 3 licenses for home and 3 for work, but I don't like the idea of being told "OneCare is maintaining your PC making the following programs unnecessary". The other virus scanners don't seem to have a problem with Ad-Aware.

    I think you overlooked the link early in this thread to the AdAware forum post where the fact that the service is always on for the free version, too.

    -steve

     

    Hey, Steve,

     

    I don't pretend to know how this stuff works (on those all too rare occasions when it does) but I believe the representations that have been made are that the conflicts that A-A and WLOC encounter are when both of them have inserted themselves into the disk read stream. (That was the gist of your 18 Feb 2008, 10:41 AM post, wasn't it?) I recognize that such a thing would probably require elevated privileges and that LavaSoft might have elected to obtain the privileges by implementing part of A-A as a service.

     

    However, there are other reasons (completely unrelated to real-time interception of the disk read stream) why LavaSoft might have decided to implement parts of A-A as a service. When A-A scans on demand, it probably needs access to parts of the registry that a non-administrator does not have permission to examine, much less change. Similarly, it may need to scan files on the computer that the non-administrator does not have access to. This is especially true for a non-real-time scanner since infection in the computer can have occurred when someone other than the current user was logged on. I suspect that A-A (free) relies on the service component for elevated privileges to access the registry and the file system rather than in order to intercept the disk read data stream.

     

    To summarize, a service may or may not be necessary to intercept the disk data stream but its presence is not sufficient to conclude that interception is taking place. The service may well be there for another reason.

     

    Cheers, JRE

     

    Sunday, February 24, 2008 5:46 PM
  • Those of you who have Ad-Aware 2007 (free) installed and doubt that it installs a service, please click WindowsKey-R to bring up a Run box, type in SERVICES.MSC (upper or lower-case) and click OK; you will then be able to see (near the top of a name-sorted list) the Ad-Aware 2007 Service.

     

    Since this is part of Ad-Watch and (supposedly) not used in the free version, it begs the question as to why it is installed.  Experimentation of disabling and stopping the service proves that Ad-Aware 2007 will not manually run without it.  It provides this error:

     

    ---------------------------
    Error
    ---------------------------
    System error: 1810 has occurred. Description: Service is not online. Application terminates
    ---------------------------
    OK  
    ---------------------------

    [By the way, for those who haven't used it, CTRL-C when an error box appears will save the text to the clipboard, which then can be easily pasted into a document (such as a Notepad file).  Very handy.]

     

    So, removing the service (which could be done after stopping and disabling it, by using the command SC DELETE AAWSERVICE at a command prompt and then rebooting) is not an option.

     

    I completely agree than any potential conflict needs to be addressed, not by red-flagging the items, but by rebuilding WLOC to avoid known conflicts.  All Microsoft does by red-flagging the conflict items is alert hackers to paths that could potentially be used to shut down WLOC, while simultaneously enraging Microsoft customers with anticompetitive remarks.  I call that a double score.

    --
    Greg Kirkpatrick
    Microsoft Small Business Specialist
    MCP, MCTS-Vista, MCITP-Vista

    Sunday, February 24, 2008 6:36 PM
  •  GregKirkpatrick wrote:

    Those of you who have Ad-Aware 2007 (free) installed and doubt that it installs a service, please click WindowsKey-R to bring up a Run box, type in SERVICES.MSC (upper or lower-case) and click OK; you will then be able to see (near the top of a name-sorted list) the Ad-Aware 2007 Service.

     

    I haven't heard anyone doubting that A-A 2007 (free) is implemented with a service although, I confess, I haven't yet had this thread tatooed on the insides of my eyelids. As it turns out, there's an entry in the FAQ at http://www.lavasoftusa.com/support/faq_aaw2007.php titled Why does Ad-Aware 2007 run as a service? It links to http://www.lavasoftusa.com/support/faq_aaw2007.php#15.

     

     GregKirkpatrick wrote:

    Since this is part of Ad-Watch and (supposedly) not used in the free version, it begs the question as to why it is installed.  Experimentation of disabling and stopping the service proves that Ad-Aware 2007 will not manually run without it.  It provides this error:

     

    ---------------------------
    Error
    ---------------------------
    System error: 1810 has occurred. Description: Service is not online. Application terminates
    ---------------------------
    OK  
    ---------------------------

     

    How did you arrive at the mistaken impression that the service is only a part of Ad-Watch? Your experiment demonstrates that Ad-Watch is not the only thing that relies on the service.

     

     GregKirkpatrick wrote:

    So, removing the service (which could be done after stopping and disabling it, by using the command SC DELETE AAWSERVICE at a command prompt and then rebooting) is not an option.

     

    I completely agree than any potential conflict needs to be addressed, not by red-flagging the items, but by rebuilding WLOC to avoid known conflicts.  All Microsoft does by red-flagging the conflict items is alert hackers to paths that could potentially be used to shut down WLOC, while simultaneously enraging Microsoft customers with anticompetitive remarks.  I call that a double score.

     

    Good. Two (or three, depending on how you count) points that we agree on.

     

     GregKirkpatrick wrote:

    --
    Greg Kirkpatrick
    Microsoft Small Business Specialist
    MCP, MCTS-Vista, MCITP-Vista

     

    Cheers, JRE

    Sunday, February 24, 2008 9:34 PM
  • It's quite clear from Lavasoft's own documentation that the new service in Ad-Aware 2007 is required for operation of all scanning it performs.

     

    Why Ad-Aware Runs as a Service

     

    Also, it's clear from the blog by Jona Bolin that Corrine referenced earlier in this thread that even Lavasoft knows there is a conflict, though they believe it's limited to the Ad-Watch component.

     

    Personally, I feel that any additional application that performs a scan of a system containing another real-time monitoring system is likely to create a conflict when it accesses a file that both are capable of detecting, even though the result might be minor. However, in this case once Ad-Aware is told to scan by its separate GUI the scanning operation is actually in control of the service, not the user. This is a concern since it can result in a confusing double detection for the user and a potential for conflict between the two components involved.

     

    The idea that one or the other of the development groups need to 'fix' this is ludicrous, since it can only occur it both groups cooperate to avoid the issue. If you extrapolate this to all of the reputable security application vendors that exist you quickly realize that this isn't going to be possible. In fact, in some cases such as those with two antivirus products it's just plain pointless, due to the design of the Windows antivirus APIs that most AV products use and the fact that it wasn't designed to be shared.

     

    The point here is that at some level it simply becomes too difficult to maintain complete compatibility between every possible security application that exists and unless they were initially designed to provide cooperative protection, they have the potential for conflict. Unfortunately these conflicts aren't always clear and simple to avoid, even if they were unintended by both parties.

     

    There is a distinct difference though between two applications which are intended to be installed and operating at all times, which a service automatically implies, or one of which is designed as an on demand use tool either locally installed or used from the web. In the case of Ad-Aware they have chosen a design path that puts their product in the position of an always installed and operating application, even when it's not necessarily performing a scan. This design choice places them in the position of having to guarantee that their application will not conflict with other security applications if they wish to be installed in combination. This does not require that other security vendors redesign their own applications to co-exist with Ad-Aware, especially when the same overlapping protection is already supplied within that other application.

     

    I personally would rather that OneCare development concentrate on improving both the protection system and the range of detections they provide rather than being concerned about compatibility with every other security application out there today. If a [competing or not] application vendor approaches the OneCare development to attempt to provide a complimentary service, I'd expect them to apply no more priority than they would to any other improvement in the program.

     

    If Lavasoft can guarantee that there is no conflict at all beween their application and OneCare and OneCare devlopment or testing groups (not individual users) can validate this, I'd fully expect them to remove that Ad-Aware version from the list of incompatible applications. Until that time, it's fully appropriate and correct to identify the existence of a conflict.

     

    OneCareBear

    Monday, February 25, 2008 6:21 PM
    Moderator
  • Tonight, I had a Windows XP Home machine to rebuild.  I installed all the relevant Windows Updates.  Then I installed, in this order: Internet Explorer 7, Javacool SpywareBlaster 4.0, Spybot Search & Destroy 1.5.2, McAfee Site Advisor (free), Lavasoft Ad-Aware 2007 (1/25/08, free), and finally Windows Live OneCare (90-day trial). 

     

    During installation, OneCare reported Ad-Aware, and only Ad-Aware, as a conflicting program, and insisted that I click to allow OneCare to remove it, or click Cancel (which I knew from past experience would result in OneCare reversing its own installation).  I did neither, clicking Start / Turn Off Computer / Restart (actually, I used the keyboard equivalents: CTRL-ESC U R).

     

    When the computer restarted, Windows Live OneCare was installed and opened, and it showed up green for a few seconds, before finding Ad-Aware again and putting up the red beacon with the View List button to remove it.  McAfee Site Advisor, Javacool SpywareBlaster 4.0, and Spybot Search & Destroy 1.5.2 were not on the list.

     

    I don't like the way Microsoft went about it, but I'm not running things (nor am I likely to in the future).  I'm satisfied that two of the three programs I saw "in conflict" a month ago are no longer on the conflict list. 

     

    I don't see the need for Lavasoft to have something running "as a service" constantly, if it is not used until the GUI program is manually run (in the free version), and Lavasoft could rewrite Ad-Aware so that the service started and stopped with the (free) GUI program if that's needed.   I'm OK with the red beacon for now.

    --
    Greg Kirkpatrick
    Microsoft Small Business Specialist
    MCP, MCTS-Vista, MCITP-Vista

    Monday, March 3, 2008 6:05 AM
  • Dear MICROSOFT,

    As usuall you have the same power ridden monopoly on everything even down to the "other" programs you want us to use.

     

    I have used Windows Live One Care on my PC for 6 months, while is quiet, doesnt eat my RAM and is fairly simple to use....It doesnt stop everything..

     

    Im annoyed that I have an AMBER display just becasue I wont submit to Internet Explorer 7!!!! what a cheek.... I tried your IE7 and to be quite frank its pants.

     

    Now I have just updated my Ad-Aware 2005 to 2007 and the staus is RED "at risk" and reports will cause conflict.

     

    Really I guess YOU GUYS HAVE THE POWER! I will wait until my subscription runs out and I guess I wont be using Live One Care again......Oh and I WILL BE TELLING ALL MY FRIENDS, WORK and INTERNET BUDDIES.

     

    What else do you plan to be incompatible with in the future, so you can continue to have the monopoly???

     

    Kind Regards Miss Pissed off

    Sunday, March 9, 2008 9:51 PM
  •  Miss Resistance wrote:

    Im annoyed that I have an AMBER display just becasue I wont submit to Internet Explorer 7!!!! what a cheek.... I tried your IE7 and to be quite frank its pants.

     

    You may not like IE7, but by not updating IE6 to IE7, your computer is at increased risk due to vulnerabilities that exist in the IE6 code base. If you do not use IE at all, but use a browser such as Firefox or Opera, that's your choice, but you should still upgrade IE to the latest code to improve the security of your PC. That's why OneCare warns you to update it.

     

     Miss Resistance wrote:

    Now I have just updated my Ad-Aware 2005 to 2007 and the staus is RED "at risk" and reports will cause conflict.

    If you've read the rest of this thread that you replied to, you know that you are not alone in your feelings about this conflict, but you also know the reasons that have been outlined by the AdAware developers and others here (unfortunately, not officially from Microsoft, though) for the conflict warning.

     

    As to your comments about "monopoly," you are free to use whatever protection your desire, therefore it isn't a monopoly. However, if you choose to use OneCare, the warning about a potential conflict is there and you either need to ignore it or remove AdAware 2007. If you choose AdAware 2007 over OneCare, that's too bad, but it is your choice. There are other products that you may be happy with for protection that won't complain about the AdAware 2007 service being in potential conflict.

    -steve

    Monday, March 10, 2008 5:27 PM
    Moderator
  • I agree with this post.  It is terrible advice to solve the problem by ignoring this message.    I've been working for months teaching older people about Internet security, etc.   So maybe all this mumbo jumbo makes sense to power users - but for seniors who are brave enough to go online and try new technologies and learn "the rules"  ---  how much sense does it make to tell them to ignore the big red X that tells them something is wrong everytime they turn their PC on?

    Their PCs are running the free version.  To me it seems more like a move to squash the competition - use only our MS product (sounds vaguely familiar to IE issues of yester year).   I've been running various virus protection / ad-aware products together and the only time I've encountered a conflict is with OneCare.     Bare minimum there should be an "ignore" button so that if it isn't really an issue and we really can ignore it - we don't have to see it and there make the visual symbol of a big red X meaningless.

    Thursday, March 20, 2008 2:26 PM
  •  swhite88 wrote:

    I agree with this post.  It is terrible advice to solve the problem by ignoring this message.    I've been working for months teaching older people about Internet security, etc.   So maybe all this mumbo jumbo makes sense to power users - but for seniors who are brave enough to go online and try new technologies and learn "the rules"  ---  how much sense does it make to tell them to ignore the big red X that tells them something is wrong everytime they turn their PC on?

    Their PCs are running the free version.  To me it seems more like a move to squash the competition - use only our MS product (sounds vaguely familiar to IE issues of yester year).   I've been running various virus protection / ad-aware products together and the only time I've encountered a conflict is with OneCare.     Bare minimum there should be an "ignore" button so that if it isn't really an issue and we really can ignore it - we don't have to see it and there make the visual symbol of a big red X meaningless.

    The advice is *not* to ignore the message, but to remove AdAware as it is indeed listed as a conflicting application. If you wish to use OneCare, then remove AdAware. If you wish to use AdAware, remove OneCare and use an alternate solution. I don't see this as a move to squash competition at all. My issue is that there is no official word from Microsoft about this conflict (the last time I checked) so the message from OneCare listing AdAware 2007 as a conflicting application due to the service that AdAware enables by default is the only thing we know to be official.

    You *never* want to run multiple real-time protection programs together. The fact that AdAware 2007 now includes a service even when it isn't needed is a change in AdAware. Prior to the 2007 release, there was no conflict with AdAware. The move by Lavasoft to this model is something that many other vendors are also making, so we'll be seeing many more conflicts moving forward.

    -steve

    Thursday, March 20, 2008 4:34 PM
    Moderator
  • So why dos MS call Ad-Aware a interfering program? because it finds tracking cookies that MS wil not flag?
    Friday, March 21, 2008 12:33 AM
  • No, because it runs a service in the background which can cause performance issues with One Care.

    Friday, March 21, 2008 1:40 AM
    Moderator
  • I've been watching this thread for months, waiting patiently for an acceptable resolution to the problem.  I'm starting to lose patience.

     

    I don't even run Ad-Aware all that often.  Only a couple times per year to see if anything has snuck into my system.  Honestly, I wouldn't miss it all that much if it were gone.

     

    However, I will NOT have my antivirus application dictate to me that I must remove it.  If OneCare would like to provide a warning which details the problem and gives me an option to remove it, that's fine as long as the warning gets out of my face once I've made a decision as to the administration of my computer.

     

    In this instance, OneCare has provided a warning but has NOT provided any details regarding the problem.  Additionally, it has labeled the problem as Urgent when in fact it would seem to be a slight performance issue at most.  Most grievously, it has not provided me with the option of choosing to dismiss the warning now that I am aware of the issue.

     

    At a minimum, OneCare should provide me with the ability to suppress the warning for 30, 60, or 90 days at a time.  If it wants to remind me every couple of months about the issue, I don't have a problem with that - but it NEEDS to go away after I dismiss it.  As it is, I'm doing my best to ignore the big red "At Risk" indicator and hoping I don't miss something truly important.

     

    OneCare is quickly making its way onto my "Rude and/or Bad Behavior" list of software applications.  I don't believe that threats and ultimatums are generally very effective, but just so you are aware of how important this issue is to me and to others:

     

    My subscription expires in early July and I will not renew unless there is an acceptable resolution to this issue.

     

    Thank you,

      - Adam Baumunk.

     

     

    Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:08 PM
  • It is my understanding that the issue is more serious than a performance problem. In certain cases, AdAware's service can crash the OneCare antimalware engine, causing the PC to be unprotected.

    -steve

     

    Monday, April 21, 2008 4:37 PM
    Moderator
  • hey steve,

    ad aware 2007 free does not one care's icon red on my vista based notebook. however, it did turn red on an older XP home notebook. what gives?

    please be simple in response:

    is ad aware 2007 free ok with vista?

    is ad aware 2007 free ok with XP, and safe to ignore the red icon?

    thanks

    Tuesday, April 29, 2008 2:12 AM
  • I can't tell you why it is warning you on XP, but not on Vista.

    Can you compare versions of both programs - Help/About in OneCare - on each system?

     

    The short answer is that it is up to you to choose to ignore the warning, though I don't recommend it. If you ignore it, you may miss another warning for a risk situation that needs more serious action.

    -steve

    Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:48 PM
    Moderator
  • I don't care what the excuse is. I have used Adaware for years, and it is staying on my computer. Either work on these supposed compatibility issues or loose another One Care subscriber. I will not argue the point.

     

    BTW. There are plenty of other security packages that I have used over the years, and none have this same issue with Adaware.

    Wednesday, August 27, 2008 2:20 AM
  • Here's one... I didn't get the warning until I upgraded to Ad-Aware 2008.  (Though the error message in OneCare says "Ad-Aware 2007".)

    Why not an advanced setting where I can tell it to either (a) kill the AdAware process if it finds it running or (b) tells it not to display the warning on that particular product?

    I don't need real-time monitoring by Ad-Aware.  But I would like to have both programs and not have an unnecessary Amber.  (Ok, it's typically always Amber because it wants me to plug in my external harddrive for another backup.)  But still.


    Wednesday, August 27, 2008 3:55 AM
  •  RangerHawk wrote:

    I don't care what the excuse is. I have used Adaware for years, and it is staying on my computer. Either work on these supposed compatibility issues or loose another One Care subscriber. I will not argue the point.

     

    BTW. There are plenty of other security packages that I have used over the years, and none have this same issue with Adaware.

    7 pages on this topic, with repeated information about why this is a conflict with OneCare and you are correct - no need to argue. If you wish to use AdAware, then I'd advise seeking another security program and remove OneCare. The AdAware service has been known to crash OneCare's protection engine and LavaSoft is aware of this problem.

    -steve

    Wednesday, August 27, 2008 12:10 PM
    Moderator
  • I started this thread back in January or February and right off the bat I blamed Microsoft.  Since that time I have done extensive research into this issue and find that the issue originated with Lavasoft, publishers of Ad Aware.  They changed their system to download their real time update feature and anti virus component even though us free users don't get the benefit of that service unless we opt to pay for their product.  It is that usless feature that triggers OneCare to let you know to remove Ad Adware.  There is no reason for Lavasoft to have added that feature since it incorporates an anti virus component, unusable to free users but it resides on your PC none the less.  You should never have 2 anti virus programs running on any single machine.  My question has become, why does Lavasoft download those components with it's free version if you can't even use it?  They have never responded to any of my inquiries to them.  I have found a better replacement for it anyway, Super Anti Spyware.  It has a free version that does even a better job than Ad Aware and does not conflict with OneCare.  Check it out at www.superantispyware.com.  This is not a Microsoft issue.
    Wednesday, August 27, 2008 3:04 PM
  • So is there a way to remove the non-functioning piece of AdAware?
    Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:50 AM
  •  tvjames wrote:
    So is there a way to remove the non-functioning piece of AdAware?

     Not that I'm aware of. I'd suggest contacting Lavasoft about it.

    -steve

    Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:10 PM
    Moderator
  • I can't set my browser to accept just certain cookies, not can I remove just certain cookies. Your attitude is typical Microsoft: YOU don't think I need to remove cookies and MRU's, therefore I should be happy to just accept them, and shouldn't run anything that your OneCare can't handle, like AdAware. As for CCleaner, I can't believe it can be that fast and still be as good.

    Friday, October 24, 2008 4:34 AM
  • Good idea, Steve - how can I stop the inferior spyware scanning of OneCare without it nagging me to death? I want to run just AdAware.

     

    Friday, October 24, 2008 4:42 AM
  •  slow4_99 wrote:
    Good idea, Steve - how can I stop the inferior spyware scanning of OneCare without it nagging me to death? I want to run just AdAware.

     

    First of all, I do not work for Microsoft. Secondly, you are free to use whatever programs you wish. You can uninstall OneCare and run any other security software. AdAware is a good program for what it does. However, it currently causes a conflict with OneCare - plain and simple.

    -steve

    Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:17 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi!  My name is Ed Roberts (daty123@earthlink.net).  I keep getting the message about the One Care and Ad-Aware conflicting with one another.  Is it really OK for me to keep Ad-Aware? Your help would be appreciated.  Thanksa lot and and have a nice day. :).
    Edward C. Roberts
    Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:00 PM
  • No, Ed, If you are running OneCare, you should remove Ad-Aware.
    -steve
    Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare Forum Moderator
    Thursday, January 1, 2009 2:16 AM
    Moderator