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Mesh folder delete fails - MOE throwing error, bug? RRS feed

  • Question

  • I'll be happy to submit my logs if y'all like, but figured I'd try here for some quick help if possible.

    I wanted to "de-mesh" a folder (not delete it) that was set not to sync to any other machines or the live desktop, so I figured I'd perform a test in advance to avoid potential data loss... glad I did, since my test has left me in a bit of a bind.

    What I did:

    1. Created "test" folder on XP desktop (added txt document).  Told folder not to sync to live desktop or any other machines.
    2. Wasn't sure how to go about de-meshing, but figured I'd start by deleting the ghosted "test" folder from the live desktop (based on what I gleaned from dialogue boxes and help) - this was probably my mistake.  As others have mentioned, the wording around de-meshing vs. deleting is very ambiguous, it's hard to tell what will happen where.
    3. After deleting the ghost from the live desktop, the "test" folder on my xp machine still showed as meshified, so I figured that wasn't the way to de-mesh a folder, and I'd nuke it and try a different method; this is where the wheels fell off.
    4. When I attempted to delete it, I got the mesh dialogue indicating it would still be in my mesh and available to other devices, and if I wanted to delete it from my mesh, I should go to my live desktop to do it.  Well, I had already deleted the ghosted folder from the live desktop in step 2 - so I clicked delete hoping it would remove it from the last device in my mesh (xp machine).
    5. Error thrown: "Could not stop synchronizing folder with one or more devices in your mesh.  Request to MOE failed with status code: 404 Server could not find the specified resource."
    6. I click "OK" and the folder is gone like I had hoped, but I'm unconvinced of its total destruction so I restore it from the recycle bin and it's icon shows it as meshified - I open it up and get the news feed, sync properties, everything. 
    7. So I delete it again, same error thrown, but this time I don't restore it, I create a new folder from scratch called "test" which shows as a regular folder and makes me optimistic.  I restart the mesh client just to be sure - once it comes back up, it shows my new, created from scratch plain old "test" folder as meshified (news feed and all).
    I can't get rid of this thing, it's almost like local MOE thinks its there, but when I try to delete it from this last device, it goes to cloud MOE to do some sort of global remove, and cloud MOE responds like it isn't there in the first place (based on what that error says to me).  My local MOE seems to disagree and maintains the folders mesh settings no matter what.

    • Is there any way I can "reset" my local MOE and take a copy of the clouds or something?
    • Also, what's the proper way to maintain a folders contents but de-mesh it?

    TIA,

    -JJ

    Friday, July 18, 2008 3:54 PM

Answers

  • JJ,

    Actually I misspoke.  After deleting the "Store" folder, you will not have to re-claim the device.  You will have to log-in to the Live Mesh client with your LiveID.  Once you do that, the client with automatically download all the data pertaining to this device, so you won't have to anything further.  This means that folders that were sync'ing before you do this, will start sync'ing again after you do this.  If you don't want this, you would 'unmap' the folder on the device before you started up the client again.

    The client tries to be smart about matching up files with the ones in the cloud (or the metadata in the cloud) when you 're-map', so that you don't re-downloaded *everything* unnecessarily.  If the files have changed though, it will cause a conflict on the specific files.  In order to do this, the client hashes files in your folders, so you will probably see your CPU spike for some time (depending how many files/how large the files are in the folder).

    Biting the bullet is always a last resort you can try!  :)

    Hope that helps,
    Richard


    Richard Chung [ Live Mesh ]
    Friday, July 25, 2008 9:19 PM
    Answerer
  • That was option #3 (ie. p2p sync only).  Yes, both folders should have become normal folders.

    JJ, feel free to submit a bug for us to investigate.  You must be in some weird state.

    Thanks,
    Richard

    Richard Chung [ Live Mesh ]
    Friday, July 18, 2008 5:49 PM
    Answerer

All replies

  •   I can't answer any of your question, but do think it is worthy of a bug report.
    Here's what I'd try, though. Make a new folder on the Live Desktop with the same name as the one you deleted. It might then allow the client to think it found the original...
    -steve
    Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare Forum Moderator
    Friday, July 18, 2008 4:52 PM
    Moderator
  • JJ,

    I just tried this exact scenario on Mesh.com and it works fine for me:
    1) Create Live Mesh folder "test" on client.
    2) See folder "test" show up on Live Desktop.
    3) [optional] Ghost folder in Live Desktop: Right click Live Mesh folder "test", select "Change sync settings".  Select "Don't synchronize this device" for Live Desktop.  Folder will show up with ghosted icon in Live Desktop.
    4) Right click folder "test" on Live Desktop, select "Delete".  Prompt shows up:
    Delete "test" from my mesh
    Deleting this folder from your Live Desktop will delete it from your mesh and stop synchronization with all other devices and members.
    Click "Delete".
    5) Folder disappears from Live Mesh Desktop, and is no longer blue on client (and not synchronized), as expected.
    The text in the prompt seems pretty clear to me.  Do you find it ambiguous?

    @Steve: No, creating a new folder with the same name won't trick the client into thinking it's the same as the original.

    Thanks,
    Richard

    Richard Chung [ Live Mesh ]
    Friday, July 18, 2008 5:27 PM
    Answerer
  • No trickery possible, then, eh? Too bad... ;-)

    Any thoughts on why the local folders on JJ's machines didn't de-meshify?

    Oh, wait. Your recreation, Richard, might not have been the same. JJ had two PCs doing peer synch only. So, deleting the folder on the Live Desktop *should* cause the folder on both clients to become normal folders and no more sync will occur. Or at least that is the expected behavior. Right?

    -steve
    Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare Forum Moderator
    Friday, July 18, 2008 5:36 PM
    Moderator
  • That was option #3 (ie. p2p sync only).  Yes, both folders should have become normal folders.

    JJ, feel free to submit a bug for us to investigate.  You must be in some weird state.

    Thanks,
    Richard

    Richard Chung [ Live Mesh ]
    Friday, July 18, 2008 5:49 PM
    Answerer
  • Ya Stephen, I actually tried that later and ended up with a meshified test-001 folder on my xp machine.

    To clarify, I didn't have the initial test folder synced to any other devices (including the live desktop) essencially it was a mesh folder that only existed and was "synced" on that local machine.

    Richard,

    I was worried that what caused it was not neccesarily the steps I took so I was careful to write "what I did:" vs "Repro steps:" haha.  I have a bit of a weird case here that tests mesh's limits pretty hard I think.  This xp machine hosting the "test" folder is my work laptop, which runs two vpn clients simultaneously and I have noticed that recently, some (but not all) of my machines internet activity is actually being routed through the vpn tunnel when I have it up (so much for AT&T's managed VPN service being smart about what needs to use the tunnel or not).

    This causes my mesh client to lose its marbles every now and then, maybe due to route confusion?.  I'm thinking that the stars may have aligned to screw up the feeds at some point (if that's even possible).  Incidentally this routing issue really messes with the remote desktop functionality too, as sometimes when I remote into my work machine to fire up the vpn clients and so some stuff, it hoses my remote session when the vpn establishes - good times, another problem for another day.

    So, regardless of what caused the problem, is there any way to fix it?  How do I get my local mesh client to stop trying to mesh this test folder?  Never creating a test folder on my desktop again is going to be a real bugger ;).

    As for the ambiguity of the delete function, it mostly has to do with uncertainty, as a new user it did not make me feel confident in what I was doing.  For instance the main shell delete function exists on a meshified folder (upon right-click), along with the mesh shell extention delete, I feel like there should only be one - probably the shell function  (since you get the same prompts regardless of the one you use), it's hard to tell if there is some difference between the two until you are willing to commit the deed.

    The dialogue box does seem to get the point across if you really, really read it but I feel like it should be simpler - like all the details you need to make the decision should be evident in that initial window, with no need to click the hyper link for more info.  Maybe a box with a couple choices; "delete folder from the mesh entirely but retain local copy" and "remove folder from mesh sync but retain copies on all previously synced devices".  Having to do the different deletes from the two seperate places seems convoluted (to me at least, heh).  Don't ge me wrong, I see some logic in using the live desktop as sort of the authority when it comes to mesh wide decisions like deleting a folder from your entire mesh, but at the same time I feel like it over complicates things.

    I absolutely love this service, and the value is obvious to me.  I think for widespread adoption though, it has to be super simplistic in almost every way a user interacts with it's core features, and deleting a mesh folder looks to be about the most complicated bit I've discoverd.  Don't get me wrong, it is understandable, it just seems harder than it needs to be - I can't put a finger on all the reasons why, I think somewhere in the "Wish List" thread someone got the delete thing across better than I am.

    Anyway, I'll try not to hijack my own thread here.  Does the error thrown give anyone any insight in to what went wrong and how I can fix things on this client?  I really appreciate the time you folks have taken thus far, thanks a bunch.

    -JJ

    • Edited by JJdigsMS Friday, July 18, 2008 7:48 PM Horrible punctuation
    Friday, July 18, 2008 7:42 PM
  • JJ,

    For the delete dialog suggestions, make sure to post to the suggestions thread so that we don't lose track of it!  I know it's a little wordy and can be confusing if you've never seen the dialogs before.

    Please open a bug in Connect so we can dig into your issues.  Start > Programs > Live Mesh > Collect Live Mesh Logs, and attach the LiveMeshLogs.cab on the Desktop to the bug.  I can't speak to the VPN concerns, but we may be able to dig through your logs to see what's going on.  You might want to attach a screenshot of the Live Desktop in the cloud.

    After doing that, to start with a "clean" client (without uninstalling/reinstalling), go ahead and shut down the Live Mesh client, then delete the following folder: "%USERPROFILE%\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Live Mesh\GacBase\Store" and then restart the client.  You'll have to re-claim the device.  If you're still seeing weird issues after doing this, then there's probably something messed up with your folders in the cloud.

    I hope that helps.  Let me know if it doesn't or you need more clarification.  Sorry for the trouble!

    Richard
    Richard Chung [ Live Mesh ]
    Wednesday, July 23, 2008 6:38 PM
    Answerer
  • Thanks Richard,

    I'll submit the issue with my logs as soon as I get some free time here.


    Also, thanks for the info on "cleaning" up my Mesh install without removing the client.  One question regarding this:

    - If I do this, I assume all my synced folder settings are lost, and the folders on my system will revert to regular system folders.  Lets say the contents of the synced folders are completely up to date with their peers out in the mesh.  If I re-claim my device and set the folders to sync again, is the mesh client smart enough to determine the local contents, prior to syncronizing are identical to the contents to sync from the mesh?  The reason I ask is I have a ____ load of data syncing and would like to avoid a complete re-sync if possible.

    My gut is telling me that it doesn't perform a verbose check like that and just offers to merge the contents, which would probably flag what I have on my new device as the most recent version of the data, no?  If that's the case, and it starts syncing, im going to end up having to resolve a conflict for every file - am I assuming correctly?

    I can't remember if I have the option to forego the merge, if I do that, what will happen; offer to basically overwrite the contents of the local folder with the mesh contents?

    Would it just be best for me to bite the bullet and delete the folders local to my problem device, and get everything fresh?

    Thanks for all your help!

    -JJ
    Friday, July 25, 2008 4:16 PM
  • JJ,

    Actually I misspoke.  After deleting the "Store" folder, you will not have to re-claim the device.  You will have to log-in to the Live Mesh client with your LiveID.  Once you do that, the client with automatically download all the data pertaining to this device, so you won't have to anything further.  This means that folders that were sync'ing before you do this, will start sync'ing again after you do this.  If you don't want this, you would 'unmap' the folder on the device before you started up the client again.

    The client tries to be smart about matching up files with the ones in the cloud (or the metadata in the cloud) when you 're-map', so that you don't re-downloaded *everything* unnecessarily.  If the files have changed though, it will cause a conflict on the specific files.  In order to do this, the client hashes files in your folders, so you will probably see your CPU spike for some time (depending how many files/how large the files are in the folder).

    Biting the bullet is always a last resort you can try!  :)

    Hope that helps,
    Richard


    Richard Chung [ Live Mesh ]
    Friday, July 25, 2008 9:19 PM
    Answerer
  • I have a very similar issue to JJ, so he's not alone out there.
    I don't have the VPN's or anything running, so we can take that off the table.

    At some point I ended up with 2 copies of the same folder, which I was using to share files with a client. One on the desktop (which suggests it was created from the Live Desktop when I prompted it to sync) and one in a sub-directory where I originally created it. It's possible I did something 'bad' to create that situation, such as un-Mesh my local copy - it was in the early days and I had been trying to create 'differently shared' shared sub-folders (which doesn't work).

    I have since nuked that particular folder on Live Desktop (and created a shiny new one for the content), but have the blue ghost folders for both the originals hanging around on my machine. I get the same error as JJ if I try to do anything with them - delete, resync, etc.

    I ahven't rrtied the work around as I'm mostly just ignoring them at the moment.

    I ahve the Mesh log files which I'll attach once I work out how to do that.
    Simon
    Tuesday, February 3, 2009 9:27 AM
  • Simon, I'd suggest trying the solution previously posted, since you mention that this may have happened some time back in the early days of the preview/beta.
    Yes, it is possible that the ghosts were created/left behind by doing some manipulation of the sync to remove a folder from the Mesh and then re-sync to a different location. It shouldn't have left the ghosts, but there were some reported issues with this in the past.
    -steve
    Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare Forum Moderator
    Tuesday, February 3, 2009 3:44 PM
    Moderator