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Speed IS the issue - especially with no reliable progress indicator. Is there yet a definitive answer please? RRS feed

  • Question

  • I have looked through this and several other forums and can't find a real answer. So here goes -
    Status:
    Win7 Pro 64bit on my desktop computer.
    Win7 Pro 32bit on my laptop.
    On same subnet (desktop via ethernet to Belkin N+ Wireless Router then Wireless to the Laptop)
    Attempting P2P sync desktop to laptop by adding folder to Mesh, set not to sync with LiveDesktop.
    Folder = 658 subfolders, 8897 files - total 38GB.
    Mesh created folder to laptop Desktop (default, not given a choice as far as I could see.) Took 3 minutes to populate that folder with 658 folders.
    1.5 hours later there was only a desktop.ini file in the sync'd folder on the laptop. (Wow - It's just creating a .wlx file as I speak.)
    I have been monitoring MOE activity in Resource Monitor. Only IE8 is active (while I search forums for answers!). Resource Monitor has shown almost no activity (until I started writing this message - does Mesh have a guilty conscience?)
    Suddenly files are starting to appear on my laptop.........
    Assuming that all the files will now get across to the laptop (Folder size now reported at >6MB) -
    Can I just drag the Mesh folder from the Desktop to the location where I want it? Will it still sync back to the desktop machine when I modify files on the laptop? (and vice versa of course.)
    I have read all the help files but simply could not understand what I was missing.
    I tried several small folder/file syncs before starting this big one. They all eventually succeeded - but I have not been able to figure out how to get the live mesh folders into the right location on the laptop. (Oh - and I never see a spinning icon either.)
    If the sync ever finishes I'll submit a log file.
    Meanwhile, if anyone (Mr. Boots? :-)) can comment on speed; setting desired folder location; a progress indicator, I would be very grateful.

    LiveMesh should be exactly what I need. Desktop to Laptop sync for when I'm on the road; Mesh with family members and a couple of friends to whom I am an unpaid "help desk"; etc, etc.

    Sync now stopped at 12.7MB :-(

    Many thanks all!
    Monday, November 23, 2009 4:34 AM

Answers

  • Live Mesh is not the fastest at getting things to sync, but 1.5 hours with only folders created and no files or even placeholders seems a bit excessive to me.

    Once you have accepted the location for the sync folder end points, you can't move them - it usually breaks the sync process. That is a goofy limitation and one that I hope gets fixed, but for now you need to change the sync folder end point at the point where you are offered the folder on the desktop of the target machine. If you click browse, you can then set up the new location and that's the end point. If you have already set the sync point, to move it, you need to go to the Live Desktop and change the sync properties for the folder to not sync with the target PC and then wait for the local folder on the target to revert to a regular folder. Move it and then change the sync settings on the Live Desktop again - this time using Browse when the folder is offered to the target PC.
    When the Live Mesh light blue folder appears on the target PC desktop, you click it to open the sync options. Then click browse, browse to the existing folder, click OK and then accept the warning about the conflicts that may ensue due to the merge.

    Now, as to the way I'd do this with two (or more PCs) on a local LAN...

    I recommend manually copying the folders and files from the source to the target where you wish them to reside. Once the files have copied, then I'd add the folder to the Mesh. And, following the process above, merge the offered folder with the new existing folder. This isn't needed when we're talking a small folder, but it especially useful when the folder and contents are large. Live Mesh doesn't blast the data over the pipe, but trickles it. If you merge existing folders that are identical, you should be able to proceed with no conflicts, despite the warning. Once they are in sync, changes will update more quickly, though still restricted in speed if large changes take place.

    -steve
    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Monday, November 23, 2009 3:49 PM
    Moderator
  • Hi, Eamonn.
    Good news that you've managed to complete the conflict resolution. Sorry that you encountered it. I've done the steps I suggested, manually copying the files, and the time stamp was preserved. I suspect that I forgot to advise using xcopy at a command prompt or some other tool to copy the files and that copying them in Windows Explorer resulted in the time stamp issues!
    The good news is that the whole issue of conflict resolution is/was addressed for the next version (whenever that might be) as it was at the top of the features/fix list as a painful experience.
    Yes, the Help text could use some Help. Any feedback you can provide based on your experience will surely be well received by the Live mesh team. You can submit feedback on Connect. Unique feedback/bug reports for each item would be best. You can also search and vote if someone has already submitted the same item.
    -steve
    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    • Marked as answer by Night_watch53 Monday, November 30, 2009 9:55 PM
    Wednesday, November 25, 2009 2:31 PM
    Moderator

All replies

  • Live Mesh is not the fastest at getting things to sync, but 1.5 hours with only folders created and no files or even placeholders seems a bit excessive to me.

    Once you have accepted the location for the sync folder end points, you can't move them - it usually breaks the sync process. That is a goofy limitation and one that I hope gets fixed, but for now you need to change the sync folder end point at the point where you are offered the folder on the desktop of the target machine. If you click browse, you can then set up the new location and that's the end point. If you have already set the sync point, to move it, you need to go to the Live Desktop and change the sync properties for the folder to not sync with the target PC and then wait for the local folder on the target to revert to a regular folder. Move it and then change the sync settings on the Live Desktop again - this time using Browse when the folder is offered to the target PC.
    When the Live Mesh light blue folder appears on the target PC desktop, you click it to open the sync options. Then click browse, browse to the existing folder, click OK and then accept the warning about the conflicts that may ensue due to the merge.

    Now, as to the way I'd do this with two (or more PCs) on a local LAN...

    I recommend manually copying the folders and files from the source to the target where you wish them to reside. Once the files have copied, then I'd add the folder to the Mesh. And, following the process above, merge the offered folder with the new existing folder. This isn't needed when we're talking a small folder, but it especially useful when the folder and contents are large. Live Mesh doesn't blast the data over the pipe, but trickles it. If you merge existing folders that are identical, you should be able to proceed with no conflicts, despite the warning. Once they are in sync, changes will update more quickly, though still restricted in speed if large changes take place.

    -steve
    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Monday, November 23, 2009 3:49 PM
    Moderator
  • Fascinating stuff Stephen. Thanks and appreciation for your patience.

    We're now 12 hours on and the folder being synced to my Laptop shows only 8.33GB of 38.

    It was steaming for a while a few hours ago, but has now settled back to a v. slow transfer rate. The firat couple of hours were as if Mesh was sorting out what it wanted to do - then hit the gas, but only for a while.

    btw - the icon did eventually start spinning of course and the rate of progress is showing - although the actual figures don't reflect what I can see being created in the Laptop's new Mesh folder.

    I will take your suggestion re doing a straight copy - then syncing. So I'll stop the current sync in a few minutes and "start again".
     You say "....... then I'd add the folder to the Mesh. And, following the process above, merge the offered folder with the new existing folder."
    Do you mean add the original folder and/or add the folder sitting on the Laptop?

    I'll read up on the Merge stuff and maybe try out with a small test folder before merging the big folder.

    Watching the Resource Monitor is interesting (if you like paint drying). When syncing, Disk and Network activity are also high for other programs on both machines. Notably Kaspersky IS 2010. As KIS is presumably checking everything that's being sent from the desktop machine AND checking again what's coming into the laptop, I'm wondering if pausing protection on both machines might also accelerate the process. Any thoughts?

    I may get back to you late tonight with an update. I NEED to get this working reliably this week!

    Best, Eamonn
    Monday, November 23, 2009 4:51 PM
  • I will take your suggestion re doing a straight copy - then syncing. So I'll stop the current sync in a few minutes and "start again". You say "....... then I'd add the folder to the Mesh. And, following the process above, merge the offered folder with the new existing folder." Do you mean add the original folder and/or add the folder sitting on the Laptop?
    I mean adding the original folder - whatever you decide will be the source side of the equation since you aren't synching with the Live Desktop (you'll change the properties to not sync with the Live Desktop).
    Basically, if you literally remove the folder from your Mesh by changing the sync properties on the Live Desktop to not sync with any device, you can then remove the Live Desktop placeholder folder and start fresh once you are ready to add the folder to the Mesh and accept it on the other PC by merging it with the desired destination location that should already be an exact copy.

    Yes, it is sort of like watching paint dry. :-) And Kaspersky is most certainly scanning all activity on both sides. If you have the ability to exclude the folder tree for the Mesh folder on both PCs, it may speed things up some, but I wouldn't bother if you follow my advice.

    By the way, my advice is meant to make things easier - it isn't the way it should work. It should transfer pretty speedily over the local LAN and at a good clip on a fast connection to the Live Desktop or a PC not on the local LAN. It just seems to be kind of a trickle at times, so starting with a full sync before putting the folder into the Mesh is pretty much the best way to avoid that wait that slow transfer of data.
    -steve
    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Monday, November 23, 2009 6:40 PM
    Moderator
  • I'll leave the thread unanswered for now. I try to check in at least daily, though not always on weekends. And I suspect I won't be here on Thanksgiving. :-)
    -steve


    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Monday, November 23, 2009 6:41 PM
    Moderator
  • Understood Steve - Again thanks.

    Folders all gone (Except the original!)

    I have to do some other work too, so am using a bit of resource on the desktop machine. My wife is on the network too - Graphics stuff, to & from her Website.) Nevertheless the copy/paste is running at 2.55MB/sec over LAN+Wireless, so it will be an hour or so.

    Then I'll do the trial copy/paste/mesh/merge before committing to the 38GB attempt.

    I will report back and understand that you can't be hovering over this thread all day - and definitley not when there's a Turkey competing for your attention!!! (Not being in the US, I have to wait 'til Christmas for my Turkey.)

    Worst case I'll just dump everything via eSATA onto my Ext HDD and stick it in my pocket.

    Eamonn
    Monday, November 23, 2009 8:26 PM
  • So - A summary:

    Trial folder copy/paste/add to mesh/merge&sync worked.
    Changed one of the files on the Target machine (laptop) & it sync'd v. fast with Source machine (desktop).


    Did the copy/paste of the 38GB folder(s) over the LAN. Actions -
    - Select source folder.
    - "Add folder to LiveMesh" (Check it is set to sync with source machine and LiveDesktop - NOT - target machine)
    - On target machine, select the folder (light blue) to be sync'd in "Live Mesh Folders"
    - Right click.
    - Browse to the target machine folder you want to sync with.
    - Then de-select Live Desktop in the options drop-down. (Check that Target & Source are set to sync.)
    - Click "OK".
    - "Merge message" appears.
    - Click "Yes".
    - Go to LiveDesktop in IE browser.
    - Right click folder you are/want to sync.
    - De-select "Sync with LiveDesktop". (Check that target & source are set to sync.)

    LiveMesh is now happily taking 35-40% of my (target machine) CPU with the SearchFilterHost taking about the same percentage.

    NOTE - So far Merge/Sync process does not show in Notifier or with a spinning Icon. Apart from watching the target's and source's Resource Monitor, I can't see how I will know when the merging process is finished. (The Help file says "On your computer, locate the folder. The folder's color should be blue Folders."
    It is - but that does not mean the sync/merge has finished. Guess I'll just wait until MOE.exe shows no activity.

    Nothing showing in the LiveMesh Bar - so I can't see if there are any conflicts yet either.

    More news tomorrow? Let's see ......

    Bye for now.
    Monday, November 23, 2009 11:48 PM
  • If it doesn't show any conflicts and doesn't copy any files, the activity "news" won't show anything. The thrashing will eventually stop when Live Mesh is satisfied that the files are indeed the same on the source and destination. When the threashing is going on, it's building the hash/index for every file at both ends.

    -steve
    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Tuesday, November 24, 2009 1:24 AM
    Moderator
  • Hi Steve & thanks for further clarification above.

    The Big Sync went OK.

    This morning I resolved 50 conflicts;
    As a further test, I deleted 1 large file and one sub-folder from the target machine and altered one file.
    News took 6 hours to report the changes.
    After 9 hours, the file I deleted seems to have gone from the source machine as expected.
    The sub-folder I deleted from the target is still on the source machine.
    The file I altered still has not updated/sync'd with the source machine (even though the change was reported in News 3 hours ago).
    Target machine is now/still showing 49 unresolves conflicts.
    Source machine is now/still showing 18 unresolved conflicts.

    All day Mesh still exhibiting strange behaviour. Sometimes going very slow or not at all. Sometimes the icon (on the source machine) spins, sometimes it does not - even when Moe.exe is clearly sending data between the two machines.

    Currently sending data back to the source machine at >1.2MB/sec. Oops - shouldn't have said anything. It's back to a dribble now.

    btw - these are not "complaints" - I know Mesh is still beta. I'm just struggling to understand at what point a job is finished, so that I can close down my laptop and go travelling knowing that everything is sync'd up to date.

    In terms of speeding things up - Do you know what happens if I change Moe.exe process priority from normal to High or Realtime - and would it help?

    Eamonn
    Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:57 PM
  • Now I realise that conflicts seem to be reported in multiples of 50 - right?

    I heep clearing them, but Mesh still tells me there are 50 (all different of course).

    There seem to be hundreds. How can I tell how many there are?
    Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:52 PM
  • Conflict resolution is painful in Live Mesh and something that was reported to be at the top of the list for fixing/improving. Wondering why you are getting conflicts, though, if you manually copied everything between PCs.... I don't recall if it only shows 50 at a time, but that's certainly possible.
    When you compare the source and target, are they pretty much the same, with the exception of changes made after you set up the sync properties after manually copying the data to the target?
    I would imagine that the reason for the delay is that there's a conflict in the queue for the file(s) you changed...
    -steve
    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:58 PM
    Moderator
  • There were thousands of conflicts.
    All except one were time stamp issues. (Ave 6 minutes difference between source & target)
    Cleared them all. 30 seconds to clear each group of 50 conflicts.
    I can only assume these occurred when I copied the files to the target machine.
    Mesh speed increased as I cleared the conflicts - albeit taking 70-90%, occasionally up to 100% of CPU on BOTH machines. (Core 2 Duo P8400 on the laptop & Core 2 Quad Q6600 on the desktop. Both machines with 4GB DDR2)

    Time stamp issue is significant - especially if you change time zones - as I did a lot in recent years.

    So I guess that speed IS still the biggest issue (for me anyway) if you intend to start using LiveMesh by syncing a lot of files. If the conflict issue can be resolved, initial sync is at least manageable IF you can do it over a LAN/WiFi first.

    Otherwise the Help files are woefully inadequate, leaving users to fumble around and waste a lot of time. Not just theirs - but yours of course. Along with large numbers of kind folks on other forums too!

    Assuming that things settle down in the coming days, I'll summarise my experiences/issues/bugs/suggestions and send feedback to the Live team.

    Again - Thanks Steve. I suggest that you close this thread now.

    Have a great Thanksgiving!

    Eamonn
    Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:40 AM
  • Hi, Eamonn.
    Good news that you've managed to complete the conflict resolution. Sorry that you encountered it. I've done the steps I suggested, manually copying the files, and the time stamp was preserved. I suspect that I forgot to advise using xcopy at a command prompt or some other tool to copy the files and that copying them in Windows Explorer resulted in the time stamp issues!
    The good news is that the whole issue of conflict resolution is/was addressed for the next version (whenever that might be) as it was at the top of the features/fix list as a painful experience.
    Yes, the Help text could use some Help. Any feedback you can provide based on your experience will surely be well received by the Live mesh team. You can submit feedback on Connect. Unique feedback/bug reports for each item would be best. You can also search and vote if someone has already submitted the same item.
    -steve
    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    • Marked as answer by Night_watch53 Monday, November 30, 2009 9:55 PM
    Wednesday, November 25, 2009 2:31 PM
    Moderator
  • Phew!!

    Busy "phew" days. - And, yes, Mesh now syncs happily and quickly for normal activity of a file/folder change here and there. In fact I made a couple of significant sized sub-folder moves and deletions. Mesh handled them all very quickly. Seems that "no conflicts = no loss of speed".

    I should have thought about xcopy myself. The time stamp issue was forseeable. Guess I have been spoiled for years by only having to think about Offline files in a corporate environment. No sync issues there!!

    I'll check and do the feedback/bug reports as you suggest - hopefully this week :-)

    All the best, Eamonn
    Monday, November 30, 2009 9:55 PM
  • I am in pretty much the same situation: want to do the initial sync of two computers with lots of files and folders (music and video collections) and gigabytes of data to be transferred.
    I tried it before but ended up with lots of conflicts and disk trashing.

    I have mesh installed in one of the computers and added to the mesh.

    If I understood it OK, I should syncronize the contents and timestamps of the files using other tool, before tying to sync through live mesh.

    Then I should install mesh in the other computer and then syncronize with the folder mesh the folder where I copied all the data. Is it OK?

    To do the initial copy and get the file stamps correct, may I use syncToy 2.0? (I use this wonderfull tool to sync folders with an usb drive).

    Thanks


    Monday, November 30, 2009 11:06 PM
  • I am in pretty much the same situation: want to do the initial sync of two computers with lots of files and folders (music and video collections) and gigabytes of data to be transferred.
    I tried it before but ended up with lots of conflicts and disk trashing.

    I have mesh installed in one of the computers and added to the mesh.

    If I understood it OK, I should syncronize the contents and timestamps of the files using other tool, before tying to sync through live mesh.

    Then I should install mesh in the other computer and then syncronize with the folder mesh the folder where I copied all the data. Is it OK?

    To do the initial copy and get the file stamps correct, may I use syncToy 2.0? (I use this wonderfull tool to sync folders with an usb drive).

    Thanks



    Yes indeed - SyncToy (2.1 was recently released) is what I'd suggest or use xcopy from a command prompt.

    -steve
    ~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~
    Tuesday, December 1, 2009 1:59 PM
    Moderator
  • Thx, I will try in a couple of days (as soon as I finish configuring the new computer).
    Tuesday, December 1, 2009 9:01 PM