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Must I install NFS server on WHS for an correct WHS use from NMT ? RRS feed

  • Question

  • Must I install NFS server on WHS for an correct WHS use from NMT ?

    Hello,

    I have an Networked Media Tank (HDX-900 from HD Digitech); I read from it the media files stored on my WHS

    Since the recent NMT Syabas Fw, has appeared on NMT menu screen, in the list of media sources, a "Network Browser", inside the list of NAS and networked PCs

    This "Network Browser" provides access to the (1) local network an (2) to any NFS server installed on the local network

    From the NMT "Network Browser" and by the (1) local network, you can access to data stored in NAS and  to shared folders on any networked PC

    [b]Concerning the WHS : [/ b]

    - The WHS multimedia data are well seen by the NMT through the MyIhome http streaming server installed on WHS

    - All of WHS shared folders are read from any networked PC

    PROBLEM only for NMT:

    -> The NMT "Network Browser" does not see the WHS shared directories:

    Network Browser finds Home-Server but : "No content found on server" (*)

    This is a big problem because MyIhome do not read the DVD ISO images stored on WHS
    ...  and , I would like to access from my NMT, to these ISO images !

    QUESTION :

    -> To solve that, am-I obliged to install an NFS server on the WHS?


    [b] Thanks [/ b] for your ideas, info and WHS + NMT experiences  ;-)


    (*) On the WHS during my tests from NMT:
    WHS Firewall is turned off
    WHS Windows Media Connect is enabled
    Media sharing is activated
    So ???



    Jean-Max
    Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:13 AM

Answers

  • NFS is not installed on your server; it uses SMB file sharing instead. Check to see if you device supports that protocol.
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Saturday, March 21, 2009 12:56 PM
    Moderator

All replies

  • NFS is not installed on your server; it uses SMB file sharing instead. Check to see if you device supports that protocol.
    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Saturday, March 21, 2009 12:56 PM
    Moderator
  • Ken Warren said:

    NFS is not installed on your server; it uses SMB file sharing instead. Check to see if you device supports that protocol.

    Hello,

    I think that "device" means, in my case, my NMT ?

    All NMT, using an Linux Like OS, are preconfigured to use distant NFS server

    -> To install NFS on a WHS, what is the best solution ?

    Thanks for all :)

    Best regards from France

    Nb : My request is not very new !:
    Look at this old thread where I received some hopefully answers, but not an exact process to install NFS

    http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/whssoftware/thread/ab9d89fd-1d14-4303-aaf8-42594f41d129


    Jean-Max
    Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:16 PM
  • Did you by any chance try searching for an answer? General answers to questions like this are trivially easy to find on Google. Take a look at this page, which was on the first page of this Google search. It lays out how to configure NFS in a simple case.

    Realize, however, that this is unsupported. It is possible (though unlikely) that this will cause problems with your server, or that future updates to Windows Home Server will break this functionality.

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:24 PM
    Moderator
  • Ken Warren said:

    Did you by any chance try searching for an answer? General answers to questions like this are trivially easy to find on Google. Take a look at this page, which was on the first page of this Google search. It lays out how to configure NFS in a simple case.
    Realize, however, that this is unsupported. It is possible (though unlikely) that this will cause problems with your server, or that future updates to Windows Home Server will break this functionality.

    Thanks ken for your help :)
    Sure, I will have a look to your links !

    but.. I just founded some minutes ago, on Hdfrance forum, a solution for reading on my NMT, ISO DVD images stored on my WHS, without installing anything on WHS !

    Perhaps this tip can help some  NMT + WHS user ?

    How to : Create on an NMT a permanent networked link to an WHS  directory

    - (1) - on the WHS :
    File Explorer:
    /DATA/Share/Videos/
    /DVD/ (in my case)
    Right click on /DVD/
    [x] Share this folder on the network
    Name: ISO DVD
     
    - (2) - on the NMT :
    Setup
    Network Share
    [add]
    Share Name: WHS ISO DVD
    URL: smb: / / HOME_SERVER/ISO DVD
    User Name: The Login used to access WHS from PC
    Password: The Pw used to access WHS from PC


    -> Now, in NMT's Media sources list menu, there is an new "WHS ISO DVD" link to directly access to the right directory inside WHS :-)





    Jean-Max
    Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:28 PM
  • Jean-Max said:

    Thanks ken for your help :)
    Sure, I will have a look to your links !

    but.. I just founded some minutes ago, on Hdfrance forum, a solution for reading on my NMT, ISO DVD images stored on my WHS, without installing anything on WHS !

    Perhaps this tip can help some  NMT + WHS user ?

    How to : Create on an NMT a permanent networked link to an WHS  directory

    - (1) - on the WHS :
    File Explorer:
    /DATA/Share/Videos/
    /DVD/ (in my case)
    Right click on /DVD/
    [x] Share this folder on the network
    Name: ISO DVD
     
    - (2) - on the NMT :
    Setup
    Network Share
    [add]
    Share Name: WHS ISO DVD
    URL: smb: / / HOME_SERVER/ISO DVD
    User Name: The Login used to access WHS from PC
    Password: The Pw used to access WHS from PC


    -> Now, in NMT's Media sources list menu, there is an new "WHS ISO DVD" link to directly access to the right directory inside WHS :-)



    Jean-Max




    Creating your own shares inside other shares on WHS is A) unsupported and B) IMO, bound to cause you problems sooner or later. I would strongly advise against doing that.
    Saturday, March 21, 2009 5:59 PM
    Moderator
  • Jean-Max said:

    ... I just founded some minutes ago, on Hdfrance forum, a solution for reading on my NMT, ISO DVD images stored on my WHS, without installing anything on WHS ! ...

    So your device does support SMB after all, as I suggested. This is very likely detailed in the manuals you received with the device. Reading the manuals is always your best first step in figuring out how to do something new or unfamiliar.

    As kariya21 points out, you should not create additional shares inside other shares on your server. Instead, I would recommend creating a new share using the Windows Home Server console. Allow the guest account at least READ access to it, and call it WHS ISOs (or whatever you prefer). You should achieve much the same effect.

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Saturday, March 21, 2009 6:31 PM
    Moderator
  • kariya21 said:
    Creating your own shares inside other shares on WHS is A) unsupported and B) IMO, bound to cause you problems sooner or later. I would strongly advise against doing that.

    Thanks for the Warning !

    Until your post I never read in any WHS doc that creating share inside share was dangerous and/or unsupported
    Instead of my solution, I will try the Guest account solution from Ken !

    Jean-Max
    Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:19 AM
  • Ken Warren said:
    So your device does support SMB after all, as I suggested. This is very likely detailed in the manuals you received with the device. Reading the manuals is always your best first step in figuring out how to do something new or unfamiliar.

    No manual with NMT device in most of cases
    Following many tests on the net, NFS is faster than SMB; that's why I tried to dig the NFS solution and hoped that NFS server install on WHS was easy
    So , I tested the more easy SMB solution implemented in WHS AND NMT

    As you say, 'reading the manual..etc.." : I am OK, ...but where is the WHS doc which tells that share inside share brings problem ?

    Ken Warren said:
    As kariya21 points out, you should not create additional shares inside other shares on your server. Instead, I would recommend creating a new share using the Windows Home Server console. Allow the guest account at least READ access to it, and call it WHS ISOs (or whatever you prefer). You should achieve much the same effect.

    That's seems the best and more secure solution :)

    My process:
    I started Console on WHS
    Guest account was deactivated and distant access non authorized
    I activated it, with a password and access in read only to shared folders Music, Photos & Videos
    In Shared folders console tab, I added an new ISO DVD shared folder with read acces from guest account
    It's OK

    But one question:
    This new folder is created on the WHS shared data root (same level as Music, Phots, Videos..)
    -> It cannot be created in the same place like it was ? ( D:/Shares/Videos/DVD/ISO DVD)

    Thanks for all :)



    Jean-Max
    Sunday, March 22, 2009 11:03 AM
  • No manuals with a complicated bit of electronics/computer technology? This is a rhetorical question, but why would someone buy such a thing, when there are dozens of devices that do much the same thing that do include documentation? The documentation you get means that the device costs more, yes, but it's normally extremely valuable to have that sort of information.

    And as for manuals for Windows Home Server, it's an OEM/system builder product. (Yes, this is my pet rant.) The manufacturer of the device/computer that Windows Home Server is installed on is the source for the manuals that are distributed. HP supplies pretty good manuals (overall). Buying a Windows Home Server machine from soneone who installs the software "one off" is less likely to result in good documentation with it, but the seller is still the source of documentation and support. Someone who purchases a "system builder" package and installs on their own hardware is the system builder, and is presumed (by Microsoft, and by us, for the most part) to have a fairly high level of technical knowledge and skill, enough so that they have no need of a manual, because they're fully capable of writing it on their own.

    Even if there were a manual (if this were a shrink-wrapped software product we're talking about) it would probably only tell you what you can do, not what you can't. You can get a hint of what you should or shouldn't do by simply looking at what's "supported". ("Unsupported" doesn't mean it will break your server, it means that if you mess up you might break your server, and it might not be possible to reverse your actions. So "unsupported" = "increased diffuse risk", not "certain doom".) If you have to log in using Remote Desktop to do it, it's not supported and is on the list of things you shouldn't do. So creating shares manually anywhere in the storage pool is something you shouldn't do. It's safe to create them as long as you stay outside the storage pool, though, so if you'd rather not let Windows Home Server manage your shares for some reason (I don't know what that reason would be, since that's one of the things that presumably people want Windows Home Server for) jsut connect a drive that's not part of the storage pool, and put a share on it through remote desktop.

    As for your final question, as an end-user of Windows Home Server, presumably you want the product precisely because it makes decisions about things like where a share goes for you. That's part of "simplicity". No, you can't use the Windows Home Server Console to create a share inside another share. But what you should care about is that you can create a share that allows you the access you need, and you should let the product take care of the detail of locaiton.

    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Sunday, March 22, 2009 12:28 PM
    Moderator
  • Ken Warren said:

    As for your final question, as an end-user of Windows Home Server, presumably you want the product precisely because it makes decisions about things like where a share goes for you. That's part of "simplicity". No, you can't use the Windows Home Server Console to create a share inside another share. But what you should care about is that you can create a share that allows you the access you need, and you should let the product take care of the detail of location.

    Hi Ken,

    your sentence : "create a share that allows you the access you need", talked better for me !

    so:
    On My WHS, I deleted the new created /ISO DVD/ shared folder from de root

    Because /VIDEOS/ folder is already factory shared, it's enough for me to let /ISO DVD/ folder as an sub-directory of /VIDEOS/

    From my NMT, I can easily access to all the /VIDEOS/ sub directories (like /ISO DVD/), by creating on the NMT, only ONE permanent networked link like this :
    smb://HOME_SERVER/VIDEOS , (with correct User Name and Password to access WHS)

    I dreamed about NFS, and I use now  SMB ;)

    Note about "WHS closed secure world"
    (We have already talked many times about the reason why MS try to make WHS easy and simple to use , to avoid customer problems etc.. ..)

    But, now, month after month, WHS is no more on an desert island, alone with only 'WHS ready" MS media connect devices around it :
    Now, it's an OPEN world, with a BIG number of new media players like HD networked players, NMT devices, which have near all, an Linux-like embedded OS in their boot eprom
    If MS want to catch the train, it must open itself to these new devices and OS which don't come from MS world
    For example :
    All the new NAS have an NFS server inside for talking without problem with all the new NMT devices
    Why not an NFS server in next WHS release ?

    About WHS more "clean & light":
    Do you remember when we talked some months ago, about the WHS toolkit 1.0 replaced by the 1.1 ? (with loss of the main functions)
    You told me that the 1.1 was better suited for the WHS 'basic' customer : no risk , no problem .
    Some days after, I received by email from an kind user, the Toolkit 1.0 and installed it
    After that :
    I was surprised ! :
    MANY MANY WHS users emailed me to have the 1.0 !

    -> Are all these WHS users who don't want a "light WHS", forgotten and out of mind from MS ?


     






    Jean-Max
    Sunday, March 22, 2009 4:45 PM
  • If you re-read this thread as I have just done, I think you will realize that this rather lengthy thread is a result of two things. First, you don't have a clear understanding of how a device works, in this case your NMT. Second, you're unwilling or unable (which isn't clear to me) to figure it out for yourself, and so you've come here for assistance. That's all fine; that's one thing that these forums are here for, and you will note that my initial reply answered your initial question: I told you to investigate whether your device supported SMB. Lo and behold, multiple posts later it turns out that you have decided to do exactly what I would have expected anyone to try as their first attempt after my answer.

    Regarding a "closed system": Microsoft has not "closed" Windows Home Server. If Windows Home Server were a closed system, it would only work with Media Center Extenders. For the most part, what Windows Home Server does do, it does in a standards compliant way. If it's not the standard you in particular want (e.g. SMB vs. NFS), I highly recommend you make a product suggestion on Connect, where Microsoft has repeatedly asked that all product suggestions be submitted.



    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Monday, March 23, 2009 4:07 AM
    Moderator
  • Ken Warren said:

    ...so you've come here for assistance. That's all fine; that's one thing that these forums are here for, and you will note that my initial reply answered your initial question: I told you to investigate whether your device supported SMB. Lo and behold, multiple posts later it turns out that you have decided to do exactly what I would have expected anyone to try as their first attempt after my answer.

    Don't be angry against me ! :
    Don't forget that English is not my native language and I have some difficult to understand immediately some details inside your posts; I often understand only after an second post from you, which complete the previous one : this made this thread quite long ;)

    - I asked initially if NFS server was necessary to use correctly my NMT : You gave me right links to install NFS server :)
    - To easily replace NFS, you talked me about "Samba" existing on WHS : I ignored that "Samba" was, in fact,  the "smb://..." command implemented in my NMT !
    - Thanks also for the warning about cascaded shares in WHS

    Now all is Ok with your help :)

    Discovering in the same time NMT device and WHS is not very easy !

    Thanks for all & best regards


    Jean-Max
    Monday, March 23, 2009 5:41 PM
  • Jean-Max, thanks for asking these questions and Ken thanks for the hints on homeserver shares best practice.
    The reason Jean-Max was asking about NFS is that this protocol is superior for streaming HD content to the market leading platform for networked media devices, NMT. There is ofcourse documentation on the SMB support for these products, the technology just isn't mature enough to deliver the same results as NFS.

    When this is said, I find the tone in this thread a bit patronizing from your side, Ken. Jean-Max is trying to figure out complex interoperability between a linux based device and a windows server - it's frankly not easy at all.

    Best regards to you all and keep the good questions coming

    Saturday, May 30, 2009 12:19 AM
  • ... it's frankly not easy at all. ...

    In this particular case, this is because the "documentation" for the NMT devices is (if Jean-Max is correct, and I have no reason to doubt him) practically nonexistent. Sorry, but the entire community of users won't substitute for a single manual which goes over all the basics. Please don't blame Windows Home Server for that. On the WHS side, of course, there's not a whole lot either, but please take into acocunt the OEM nature of the product, and the fact that, at heart, it's just Windows Server 2003 with a few added bits.

    As for NFS in particular: Windows does not, and possibly never will, have fully configured NFS support "out of the box", but it does have SMB support, which is perfectly adequate for multiple simultaneous high definition reads. (Note that both SMB and NFS are file sharing protocols, so there is no streaming going on. You read the file off a remote device and process it locally.) I recommended SMB because it's a de facto Windows standard at this point, so I was surprised to hear that the NMT didn't support it (as Jean-Max rather strongly implied) but I provided him with a pointer to how to configure NFS support on Windows Server 2003, and some warnings that this isn't supported by Windows Home Server, so potentially there would be undesirable consequences.

    All the rest devolves from the fact that Jean-Max apparently didn't read the promotional literature for his NMT device(s), because SMB support is plastered all over the manufacturer's web site. Yes, I expect that people will have already gained as much knowledge of the product they're trying to integrate with Windows Home Server as possible before they ask questions about that other product here. Shoot me for being the curmudgeonly soul that I sometimes am, but I don't have deep technical knowldge about everything under the sun. For the most part, I have a lot of knowledge of basic Windows, networking, etc. concepts, and for the rest I have superior Google-fu. :) That only takes you so far, though, so yes, I expect (require, really) someone asking about a non-WHS device to have the appropriate level of technical knowledge on that side.


    I'm not on the WHS team, I just post a lot. :)
    Saturday, May 30, 2009 1:21 PM
    Moderator