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Will “Morro” be a replacement for OneCare from a security Perspective?

Question
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I realize that "Morro" won't have everything that OneCare has, but will it a reasonably complete solution from a security stand-point?
My OneCare subscription is up in January (bummer). I haven't been thrilled with OneCare, but I believe it did a reasonable job at keeping my computers safe. So what should I do in January. I think I will want try try "Morro" if it is a complete solution. But if it's only anti-virus and no firewall, then I might as well switch to another vendor in January. If "Morro" will be a complete security solution then I may either extend OneCare or eval others until "Morro" is out.Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:09 AM
Answers
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As far as we know, Morro will be antivirus and antispyware. Since it does not currently exist, I can't tell you how good it will be, but I can assume that it will be similar in protection capabilities to OneCare and Forefront as it will be using the same or similar definitions, maintained by the Microsoft Antimalware team.
-steve
Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:29 PMModerator
All replies
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As far as we know, Morro will be antivirus and antispyware. Since it does not currently exist, I can't tell you how good it will be, but I can assume that it will be similar in protection capabilities to OneCare and Forefront as it will be using the same or similar definitions, maintained by the Microsoft Antimalware team.
-steve
Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:29 PMModerator -
From what I understand from reading about it (note-this may not be correct or updated) there will be no firewall included, but on installation, it will check to see if your Windows Firewall is enabled, and if not, it will enable it. If you are using Vista, you can set the 2-way firewall (to simulate the protection of OneCare,but off by default)by going to Help and Support on Start Menu, type Windows Firewall-Click on Administrative Tools in the help box-Click Windows Firewall with Advanced Security-View Firewall Properties-look for the one connection that is set to Off by default, I think it's the Outbound connection, turn it on and hit Apply. DO NOT do this with OneCare installed, but you can test the steps to get there like I did.
It is important to note that many of OC's performance functions are built on components already in Windows, it's just that OneCare makes it convenient for the user to set. Since Morro's AV and Anti-Spyware components will use the same definition set as OneCare currently does, there should be no worry about being less protected than you are now.
The one question I have is will Morro update itself in a manner similar to OneCare (automated)or will it be done through Windows Update?
- Proposed as answer by Aragorn13108 Sunday, October 11, 2009 11:34 PM
Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:06 PM -
I would bet that Morro will update using Windows Update, expecting AU to be on. That's how Defender updates itself and I assume that OneCare would have gone the same route eventually.
-steve
Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:23 PMModerator -
Morro will only be an antivirus program. You will need to install Windows Defender to guard yourself against spyware (which OneCare did for you) nor does it include a firewall.
It will, in fact, be about as worthless as all the other "free" solutions are.
We all should be making plans to take our security needs elsewhere once OneCare is gone. Because Microsoft, under the leadership of Steve Ballmer, no longer cares what happens to your computer that's why they have done away with OneCare.Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:50 AM -
Morro will only be an antivirus program. You will need to install Windows Defender to guard yourself against spyware (which OneCare did for you) nor does it include a firewall.
It will, in fact, be about as worthless as all the other "free" solutions are.
We all should be making plans to take our security needs elsewhere once OneCare is gone. Because Microsoft, under the leadership of Steve Ballmer, no longer cares what happens to your computer that's why they have done away with OneCare.
Not true.
Morro has not yet been made available and only screenshots have been leaked. Those screenshots make it clear that Morro is antivirus and antispyware, incorporating Defender or working with it as OneCare does. Note that the engine and signatures for Morro will likely be coming from the same group that currently provides these for Defender, OneCare, and ForeFront.
Note also that Defender will be enabled once again automatically upon removal of OneCare if it is installed and disabled on XP and always on Vista.
Windows includes a firewall. When you uninstall OneCare, the Windows firewall is enabled. Most users are confused by 2 way firewalls, even when they are as simplified as OneCares..
"Worthless" is *your* opinion. Running ne security is stupid and reckless. Running with a free solution is better than nothing. It remains to be seen how good Morro will be. In my opinion, both Avast and Avira do a pretty decent job of protecting against common malware. I would expect that Morro will be at least as good.
Your last statement is even more rediculous and is not even worth responding to.
-steve
Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare & Live Mesh Forum Moderator- Edited by Stephen BootsMVP, Moderator Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:00 PM added Defender note
- Proposed as answer by Chuck W_ Wednesday, June 17, 2009 5:33 PM
Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:57 PMModerator -
Does anyone know if Morro will be free for commercial use also, will businesses be allowed to use it free of charge?
Most "free" solutions are only for home use...
/stillee
Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:11 PM -
Naturally you'd say that since you appear to be some sort of "unofficial spokesperson for Microsoft". But the fact remains that since Ballmer took sole command without Gates looking over his shoulder or even making the keynote speeches anymore Microsoft has started going downhill. All free antivirus programs are worthless. They don't update the definitions for their "free" users quite as rapidly as they do for people using the pay version. This includes AVG. OneCare was excellent protection and now that it is being phased out those who (like myself) have been using it are being left with nothing. Except a bunch of backup discs that are useless because you need OneCare in order to use them.
Windows 7 has a terrible flaw that actually makes it easier for malware to attack you.
Doing away with Encarta was another bad choice as it leaves people with only the (mostly unreliable) wikipedia option for research purposes.
Bing is a terrible search engine. Users in the UK have found that most of the links it comes up with are broken.
But even here in the US I have lost track of the number of times it has failed me and I have had to resort to, say, Google, to find the information I was looking for. This almost never happened with Windows Live Search but now it's almost an everyday occurance.Defend Ballmer all you want, my friend...but with Microsoft's track record during his regime on improvements that are not improvements in an economic climate like this one you may yet see Microsoft go under.
Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:18 PM -
Does anyone know if Morro will be free for commercial use also, will businesses be allowed to use it free of charge?
Most "free" solutions are only for home use...
/stillee
I've wondered about commercial use myself and though I don't know for certain what will be allowed, here's what I'd speculate at the moment.
Since the original purpose for OneCare was as a consumer product, that's really how Morro is likely to be positioned too. However, since OneCare was also being sold to SOHO (Small Office/Home Office) businesses too, it seems reasonable that Morro might at least be allowed for use in these situations. If you think about it, it's very difficult today to draw a line between 'home' and 'business' uses, since many home PCs are used to some extent for both.
Since Morro is actually being created specifically to remove as many road blocks as possible to the use of a good anti-malware product on every PC, including cost and use of PC resources, these business distinctions seem pointless. Again this is only speculation, but since Morro is only planned for use on individual PCs and not servers or with multi-PC management, it semms like it should be available for any individual PC use. The fact that only the ForeFront products meant for enterprise business use remain in the Microsoft product line seems to also bear this out.
We won't know the true answer to this until an official press release is posted by Microsoft, but if I had to bet I'd think they'd allow Morro to be used free by anyone, assuming that those with the means and/or larger PC installations will find other products with centralized management and other features more effective in their environments. In other words, let the market determine the lines and allow Morro to fill the holes to provide protection to those who might otherwise not acquire any.
OneCareBear
Windows OneCare Forum Moderator- Proposed as answer by Chuck W_ Wednesday, June 17, 2009 5:34 PM
Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:18 PMModerator -
Naturally you'd say that since you appear to be some sort of "unofficial spokesperson for Microsoft". But the fact remains that since Ballmer took sole command without Gates looking over his shoulder or even making the keynote speeches anymore Microsoft has started going downhill. All free antivirus programs are worthless. They don't update the definitions for their "free" users quite as rapidly as they do for people using the pay version. This includes AVG. OneCare was excellent protection and now that it is being phased out those who (like myself) have been using it are being left with nothing. Except a bunch of backup discs that are useless because you need OneCare in order to use them.
Windows 7 has a terrible flaw that actually makes it easier for malware to attack you.
Doing away with Encarta was another bad choice as it leaves people with only the (mostly unreliable) wikipedia option for research purposes.
Bing is a terrible search engine. Users in the UK have found that most of the links it comes up with are broken.
But even here in the US I have lost track of the number of times it has failed me and I have had to resort to, say, Google, to find the information I was looking for. This almost never happened with Windows Live Search but now it's almost an everyday occurance.Defend Ballmer all you want, my friend...but with Microsoft's track record during his regime on improvements that are not improvements in an economic climate like this one you may yet see Microsoft go under.
Steve and I are both MVP Awardees, which means we have received recognition for our help in the Internet community such as this forum aiding the public in their understanding of Microsoft products. We may 'evangelize', but we also are often the most outspoken when we believe something isn't being done well too.
You appear to feel you have been personally 'burned' by several decisions made by Microsoft over the last few years, though you misunderstand the decision making processes completely. Though Steve Balmer is the 'boss' at the top of Microsoft, he makes few if any of the lower level product decisions you are lamenting. In fact, that 'software architect' position that Bill Gates used to hold is now held by someone else, though I can't recall who at the moment. In any case, some of these specific decisions probably occured at lower levels anyway, within the groups reasonsible for those product lines.
To your specific complaints in this post:
OneCare is being replaced by Morro in an attempt to provide good basic protection to a much wider group of PC users than OneCare ever did. It's not intended to reduce protection, but rather increase the number of users who have the good protection it provides. If they didn't think they could provide this, Microsoft just wouldn't bother, since it would simply waste their own money and time. They key purpose here is to protect their operating system products and users, since that's where they really make their money, which was also true of OneCare. Unfortunately for the relatively small number of OneCare users, this will mean the loss of the additional features it included.
Windows 7 is not yet a released operating system, so it may indeed have flaws. So what? Until it is released that's not a concern to anyone who helps in such testing as long as any issues are exposed and resolved before final release. I'll take Windows 7 in its current form over Windows XP any day though.
Most development effort for Bing was in the US market, other markets were left until after its release. I personally find Bing far more useable and less dangerous (malware links in the search results) than any other search facility. It's also much better organized and easier to navigate. Both your and my comments are personal opinion, so there's no 'one answer' here, which is why multiple search options exist. Use what you want, I'll be using Bing and recommending it to people I care about.
Personally I can take or leave Steve Ballmer, because he's primarily a salesman. But in the current structure at Microsoft, that's really what he's been asked to do. I don't directly blame him for any of these things, though being at the head of the operating company he has his portion of the responsibility for direction as much as anyone else.
Unfortunately, an unhappy customer will often sound like you do here. Though if you step back and read your own posts carefully, you'll probably recognize that few others except those with the same complaints will even bother to read your future posts. The best you can do is make your specific complaints about products in the community forums or newsgroups relating to those products and either learn what options others are finding or make your specific points about what you don't like, but without personal attacks that cause others to tune you out.
OneCareBear
Windows OneCare Forum Moderator- Proposed as answer by Chuck W_ Wednesday, June 17, 2009 5:33 PM
Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:52 PMModerator -
Does anyone know if Morro will be free for commercial use also, will businesses be allowed to use it free of charge?
Most "free" solutions are only for home use...
/stillee
Nothing has been announced regarding terms of use.
-steve
Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare & Live Mesh Forum ModeratorWednesday, June 17, 2009 3:02 PMModerator -
Naturally you'd say that since you appear to be some sort of "unofficial spokesperson for Microsoft". But the fact remains that since Ballmer took sole command without Gates looking over his shoulder or even making the keynote speeches anymore Microsoft has started going downhill. All free antivirus programs are worthless. They don't update the definitions for their "free" users quite as rapidly as they do for people using the pay version. This includes AVG. OneCare was excellent protection and now that it is being phased out those who (like myself) have been using it are being left with nothing. Except a bunch of backup discs that are useless because you need OneCare in order to use them.
Windows 7 has a terrible flaw that actually makes it easier for malware to attack you.
Doing away with Encarta was another bad choice as it leaves people with only the (mostly unreliable) wikipedia option for research purposes.
Bing is a terrible search engine. Users in the UK have found that most of the links it comes up with are broken.
But even here in the US I have lost track of the number of times it has failed me and I have had to resort to, say, Google, to find the information I was looking for. This almost never happened with Windows Live Search but now it's almost an everyday occurance.Defend Ballmer all you want, my friend...but with Microsoft's track record during his regime on improvements that are not improvements in an economic climate like this one you may yet see Microsoft go under.
I won't disagree with your observations about other products and your experiences in the UK with Bing.
I can't comment on the supposed Windows 7 flaw, since you don't provide a reference and it is still in beta, though I suspect you are referring to recent reports about the changes to UAC.
I can tell you that I'm not an unoffical Microsoft spokesman. I volunteer here in the forums, am a customer, and do not believe that Microsoft is always right. I am also not defending Ballmer, but I will once again remind you that Morro has not even gone to public beta, so any speculation as to its value is premature at best.
You are welcome to be upset about the end of OneCare - I'm sorry to see it go, too. I am aware of the backup issue and hope that a simple utility will be made available to allow users to restore from these backups when OneCare has been removed already.
I suggest that you reserve judgement on Morro after it is available for testing and use.
-steve
Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare & Live Mesh Forum ModeratorWednesday, June 17, 2009 3:09 PMModerator -
Does anyone know if Morro will be free for commercial use also, will businesses be allowed to use it free of charge?
Most "free" solutions are only for home use...
/stillee
I've wondered about commercial use myself and though I don't know for certain what will be allowed, here's what I'd speculate at the moment.
Since the original purpose for OneCare was as a consumer product, that's really how Morro is likely to be positioned too. However, since OneCare was also being sold to SOHO (Small Office/Home Office) businesses too, it seems reasonable that Morro might at least be allowed for use in these situations. If you think about it, it's very difficult today to draw a line between 'home' and 'business' uses, since many home PCs are used to some extent for both.
Since Morro is actually being created specifically to remove as many road blocks as possible to the use of a good anti-malware product on every PC, including cost and use of PC resources, these business distinctions seem pointless. Again this is only speculation, but since Morro is only planned for use on individual PCs and not servers or with multi-PC management, it semms like it should be available for any individual PC use. The fact that only the ForeFront products meant for enterprise business use remain in the Microsoft product line seems to also bear this out.
We won't know the true answer to this until an official press release is posted by Microsoft, but if I had to bet I'd think they'd allow Morro to be used free by anyone, assuming that those with the means and/or larger PC installations will find other products with centralized management and other features more effective in their environments. In other words, let the market determine the lines and allow Morro to fill the holes to provide protection to those who might otherwise not acquire any.
OneCareBear
Windows OneCare Forum Moderator
Personally, I don't trust anything as seriius as protecting my computer for FREE. As they say, you can't get something for nothing. I would prefer to pay for virus protection---that is a critical part of owning a computer. I might have free radio and and other programs, but virus protection is something I take very seriously.Thursday, June 18, 2009 3:00 AM -
Naturally you'd say that since you appear to be some sort of "unofficial spokesperson for Microsoft". But the fact remains that since Ballmer took sole command without Gates looking over his shoulder or even making the keynote speeches anymore Microsoft has started going downhill. All free antivirus programs are worthless. They don't update the definitions for their "free" users quite as rapidly as they do for people using the pay version. This includes AVG. OneCare was excellent protection and now that it is being phased out those who (like myself) have been using it are being left with nothing. Except a bunch of backup discs that are useless because you need OneCare in order to use them.
Windows 7 has a terrible flaw that actually makes it easier for malware to attack you.
Doing away with Encarta was another bad choice as it leaves people with only the (mostly unreliable) wikipedia option for research purposes.
Bing is a terrible search engine. Users in the UK have found that most of the links it comes up with are broken.
But even here in the US I have lost track of the number of times it has failed me and I have had to resort to, say, Google, to find the information I was looking for. This almost never happened with Windows Live Search but now it's almost an everyday occurance.Defend Ballmer all you want, my friend...but with Microsoft's track record during his regime on improvements that are not improvements in an economic climate like this one you may yet see Microsoft go under.
I won't disagree with your observations about other products and your experiences in the UK with Bing.
I can't comment on the supposed Windows 7 flaw, since you don't provide a reference and it is still in beta, though I suspect you are referring to recent reports about the changes to UAC.
I can tell you that I'm not an unoffical Microsoft spokesman. I volunteer here in the forums, am a customer, and do not believe that Microsoft is always right. I am also not defending Ballmer, but I will once again remind you that Morro has not even gone to public beta, so any speculation as to its value is premature at best.
You are welcome to be upset about the end of OneCare - I'm sorry to see it go, too. I am aware of the backup issue and hope that a simple utility will be made available to allow users to restore from these backups when OneCare has been removed already.
I suggest that you reserve judgement on Morro after it is available for testing and use.
-steve
Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare & Live Mesh Forum ModeratorThursday, June 18, 2009 3:09 AM -
Personally, I don't trust anything as seriius as protecting my computer for FREE. As they say, you can't get something for nothing. I would prefer to pay for virus protection---that is a critical part of owning a computer. I might have free radio and and other programs, but virus protection is something I take very seriously.
zberryman,
Like most with this opinion, you just don't understand where Microsoft is coming from. At the price OneCare subscriptions were selling for, it was practically giving it away. In fact, it may well have cost Microsoft more to support OneCare than it produced in revenue, though that's not something they've ever talked about.
The reason Microsoft got into the anti-malware business in the first place is to protect their operating system customers, beacuse the OS business is one of their big money makers and enables most of their other products like Office too. So they don't need to make money off of an anti-malware product to want and in fact need to do it right.
The most widely delivered anti-malware product in the world is already a free product called the Malicious Software Removal Tool (MSRT) and is delivered to millions of PCs around the world monthly by Windows Update. At it's core it's made with some of the same detection and removal systems used in all of the other Microsoft products like OneCare, Windows Defender and the ForeFront business products. Though it only removes a few dozen of the most common malware currently affecting systems, it does this completely for free as does the Windows Defender anti-spyware that was released about the same time as OneCare and in fact is built-in to OneCare for that protection.
So the point is that free does not mean bad, though it doesn't necessarily mean good either. The thing that's required is that you look at who is providing the free software and why. Microsoft has a vested interest in protecting their customers so they continue to purchase their OS and other software from them. Others are usually just trying to get you to buy their protection software at best or using it to gain access to your system for malicious purposes (fake antimalware) at worst.
I'll choose Microsoft's free over many others for profit products any day.
OneCareBear
Windows OneCare Forum ModeratorThursday, June 18, 2009 3:23 AMModerator -
Personally, I don't trust anything as seriius as protecting my computer for FREE. As they say, you can't get something for nothing. I would prefer to pay for virus protection---that is a critical part of owning a computer. I might have free radio and and other programs, but virus protection is something I take very seriously.
zberryman,
Like most with this opinion, you just don't understand where Microsoft is coming from. At the price OneCare subscriptions were selling for, it was practically giving it away. In fact, it may well have cost Microsoft more to support OneCare than it produced in revenue, though that's not something they've ever talked about.
The reason Microsoft got into the anti-malware business in the first place is to protect their operating system customers, beacuse the OS business is one of their big money makers and enables most of their other products like Office too. So they don't need to make money off of an anti-malware product to want and in fact need to do it right.
The most widely delivered anti-malware product in the world is already a free product called the Malicious Software Removal Tool (MSRT) and is delivered to millions of PCs around the world monthly by Windows Update. At it's core it's made with some of the same detection and removal systems used in all of the other Microsoft products like OneCare, Windows Defender and the ForeFront business products. Though it only removes a few dozen of the most common malware currently affecting systems, it does this completely for free as does the Windows Defender anti-spyware that was released about the same time as OneCare and in fact is built-in to OneCare for that protection.
So the point is that free does not mean bad, though it doesn't necessarily mean good either. The thing that's required is that you look at who is providing the free software and why. Microsoft has a vested interest in protecting their customers so they continue to purchase their OS and other software from them. Others are usually just trying to get you to buy their protection software at best or using it to gain access to your system for malicious purposes (fake antimalware) at worst.
I'll choose Microsoft's free over many others for profit products any day.
OneCareBear
Windows OneCare Forum ModeratorThursday, June 18, 2009 3:37 AM -
Personally, I don't trust anything as seriius as protecting my computer for FREE. As they say, you can't get something for nothing. I would prefer to pay for virus protection---that is a critical part of owning a computer. I might have free radio and and other programs, but virus protection is something I take very seriously.
zberryman,
Like most with this opinion, you just don't understand where Microsoft is coming from. At the price OneCare subscriptions were selling for, it was practically giving it away. In fact, it may well have cost Microsoft more to support OneCare than it produced in revenue, though that's not something they've ever talked about.
The reason Microsoft got into the anti-malware business in the first place is to protect their operating system customers, beacuse the OS business is one of their big money makers and enables most of their other products like Office too. So they don't need to make money off of an anti-malware product to want and in fact need to do it right.
The most widely delivered anti-malware product in the world is already a free product called the Malicious Software Removal Tool (MSRT) and is delivered to millions of PCs around the world monthly by Windows Update. At it's core it's made with some of the same detection and removal systems used in all of the other Microsoft products like OneCare, Windows Defender and the ForeFront business products. Though it only removes a few dozen of the most common malware currently affecting systems, it does this completely for free as does the Windows Defender anti-spyware that was released about the same time as OneCare and in fact is built-in to OneCare for that protection.
So the point is that free does not mean bad, though it doesn't necessarily mean good either. The thing that's required is that you look at who is providing the free software and why. Microsoft has a vested interest in protecting their customers so they continue to purchase their OS and other software from them. Others are usually just trying to get you to buy their protection software at best or using it to gain access to your system for malicious purposes (fake antimalware) at worst.
I'll choose Microsoft's free over many others for profit products any day.
OneCareBear
Windows OneCare Forum Moderator
Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:39 AM -
Again, I want something that has been tested over time and recommended to be reliable. One Care is fairly new and it is going out. I think I'll still go with something that is stood the test of time and recommendatios. I haven't heard of any recommendations of Morrow because no one has used it yet----especially on a long-term basis. No one or no company is perfect and knows what is right for every computer. Can you disagree with what I've said?
All of the Microsoft anti-malware products use the same engines, including OneCare and the new Microsoft Security Essentials, only the GUI is different for each product. These core engines are based on those from the antivirus and antispyware products that Microsoft purchased around 2003-2005 and have been steadily improving ever since.
The Microsoft OneCare product has a solid reputation with all of the major certification testing groups, as well as a few of the popular, but less officially recognized private tests. It generally ranks in the better than average detections range and near the top of the least false positives (bad detections). It's also tested well in detecting new unrecognized malware using heuristics before any signatures are available.
Microsoft has as many or more resources (people, facilities, etc.) dedicated to security as any of the other major security product vendors. It also has an intimate knowledge of the operating systems it's trying to protect and a complete understanding of where those products are heading in the future. I don't believe that Microsoft's anti-malware products are exceptionally better than anyone elses, but they are at least as good on average and often better in the simplicity of operation arena.
Since a necessary part of creating detections for malware is collecting and analyzing new malware from the wild, no one has a better or larger collection system. Along with OneCare and now MSE, the ForeFront business products, Windows Defender and the Microsoft Malicious Software Removal tool (in monthly Windows Updates) are all delivered to 100's of millions of PCs regularly.
You can convince yourself of anything if you try hard enough, but deciding that MSE is somehow less of a product because it's new is equivalent to stating that Office 2007 is no good because it's only been out a year, ignoring the huge amount of history behind the previous product versions that came before. The anti-malware products are all just different GUI 'shells' around the same core anti-malware engines that have existed for at least several years and have gained a solid reputation in the security industry.
I don't use these products because they are produced by Microsoft, I use them because they are some of the best available.
RobTuesday, June 30, 2009 5:00 AMModerator -
Again, I want something that has been tested over time and recommended to be reliable. One Care is fairly new and it is going out. I think I'll still go with something that is stood the test of time and recommendatios. I haven't heard of any recommendations of Morrow because no one has used it yet----especially on a long-term basis. No one or no company is perfect and knows what is right for every computer. Can you disagree with what I've said?
All of the Microsoft anti-malware products use the same engines, including OneCare and the new Microsoft Security Essentials, only the GUI is different for each product. These core engines are based on those from the antivirus and antispyware products that Microsoft purchased around 2003-2005 and have been steadily improving ever since.
The Microsoft OneCare product has a solid reputation with all of the major certification testing groups, as well as a few of the popular, but less officially recognized private tests. It generally ranks in the better than average detections range and near the top of the least false positives (bad detections). It's also tested well in detecting new unrecognized malware using heuristics before any signatures are available.
Microsoft has as many or more resources (people, facilities, etc.) dedicated to security as any of the other major security product vendors. It also has an intimate knowledge of the operating systems it's trying to protect and a complete understanding of where those products are heading in the future. I don't believe that Microsoft's anti-malware products are exceptionally better than anyone elses, but they are at least as good on average and often better in the simplicity of operation arena.
Since a necessary part of creating detections for malware is collecting and analyzing new malware from the wild, no one has a better or larger collection system. Along with OneCare and now MSE, the ForeFront business products, Windows Defender and the Microsoft Malicious Software Removal tool (in monthly Windows Updates) are all delivered to 100's of millions of PCs regularly.
You can convince yourself of anything if you try hard enough, but deciding that MSE is somehow less of a product because it's new is equivalent to stating that Office 2007 is no good because it's only been out a year, ignoring the huge amount of history behind the previous product versions that came before. The anti-malware products are all just different GUI 'shells' around the same core anti-malware engines that have existed for at least several years and have gained a solid reputation in the security industry.
I don't use these products because they are produced by Microsoft, I use them because they are some of the best available.
RobTuesday, June 30, 2009 6:10 AM -
Naturally you'd say that since you appear to be some sort of "unofficial spokesperson for Microsoft". But the fact remains that since Ballmer took sole command without Gates looking over his shoulder or even making the keynote speeches anymore Microsoft has started going downhill. All free antivirus programs are worthless. They don't update the definitions for their "free" users quite as rapidly as they do for people using the pay version. This includes AVG. OneCare was excellent protection and now that it is being phased out those who (like myself) have been using it are being left with nothing. Except a bunch of backup discs that are useless because you need OneCare in order to use them.
Windows 7 has a terrible flaw that actually makes it easier for malware to attack you.
Doing away with Encarta was another bad choice as it leaves people with only the (mostly unreliable) wikipedia option for research purposes.
Bing is a terrible search engine. Users in the UK have found that most of the links it comes up with are broken.
But even here in the US I have lost track of the number of times it has failed me and I have had to resort to, say, Google, to find the information I was looking for. This almost never happened with Windows Live Search but now it's almost an everyday occurance.Defend Ballmer all you want, my friend...but with Microsoft's track record during his regime on improvements that are not improvements in an economic climate like this one you may yet see Microsoft go under.
Steve and I are both MVP Awardees, which means we have received recognition for our help in the Internet community such as this forum aiding the public in their understanding of Microsoft products. We may 'evangelize', but we also are often the most outspoken when we believe something isn't being done well too.
You appear to feel you have been personally 'burned' by several decisions made by Microsoft over the last few years, though you misunderstand the decision making processes completely. Though Steve Balmer is the 'boss' at the top of Microsoft, he makes few if any of the lower level product decisions you are lamenting. In fact, that 'software architect' position that Bill Gates used to hold is now held by someone else, though I can't recall who at the moment. In any case, some of these specific decisions probably occured at lower levels anyway, within the groups reasonsible for those product lines.
To your specific complaints in this post:
OneCare is being replaced by Morro in an attempt to provide good basic protection to a much wider group of PC users than OneCare ever did. It's not intended to reduce protection, but rather increase the number of users who have the good protection it provides. If they didn't think they could provide this, Microsoft just wouldn't bother, since it would simply waste their own money and time. They key purpose here is to protect their operating system products and users, since that's where they really make their money, which was also true of OneCare. Unfortunately for the relatively small number of OneCare users, this will mean the loss of the additional features it included.
Windows 7 is not yet a released operating system, so it may indeed have flaws. So what? Until it is released that's not a concern to anyone who helps in such testing as long as any issues are exposed and resolved before final release. I'll take Windows 7 in its current form over Windows XP any day though.
Most development effort for Bing was in the US market, other markets were left until after its release. I personally find Bing far more useable and less dangerous (malware links in the search results) than any other search facility. It's also much better organized and easier to navigate. Both your and my comments are personal opinion, so there's no 'one answer' here, which is why multiple search options exist. Use what you want, I'll be using Bing and recommending it to people I care about.
Personally I can take or leave Steve Ballmer, because he's primarily a salesman. But in the current structure at Microsoft, that's really what he's been asked to do. I don't directly blame him for any of these things, though being at the head of the operating company he has his portion of the responsibility for direction as much as anyone else.
Unfortunately, an unhappy customer will often sound like you do here. Though if you step back and read your own posts carefully, you'll probably recognize that few others except those with the same complaints will even bother to read your future posts. The best you can do is make your specific complaints about products in the community forums or newsgroups relating to those products and either learn what options others are finding or make your specific points about what you don't like, but without personal attacks that cause others to tune you out.
OneCareBear
Windows OneCare Forum ModeratorTuesday, June 30, 2009 6:23 AM -
I believe that the backup files for onecare are .zip files and can be opened by pkzip or one of the many free alternatives.
Somewhere on your backup disk you will find a sub-directory called "Windows Onecare Backup" under that, all backed up directories and files. Further down the chain you will discover files Part1.Zip, Part2.zip etc. Open those files with a .zip program and there you will discover files with names like "Part##0 of Outlook.pst", "Part##1 of Outlook.pst", etc. Unzip all of the like named files, in this case outlook.pst, and then join them with a program like http://www.freebyte.com/hjsplit/.
You can find source code for manipulating .zip files on the internet and the join part should be easy, writing a standalone program to automatically rebuild the files would not be a very daunting task.
Monday, August 10, 2009 3:52 PM -
Well naturally I am unhappy. People already had access to free anti-virus and antispyware programs. Microsoft didn't need to do away with an excellent program like OneCare which was a VERY reasonably priced protection (compared to others on the market) even for those who had to pay for it.
I didn't. It came "free" with my Internet Service Provider subscription. Much as one has access to Macafee free through RealPlayer.
The fact is that Morro (Security Essentials) is actually reducing OUR protection as well as leaving us without the Tune Up feature which was VERY helpful in addition to the automatic backups.
And when they finally release Morro and OneCare goes away people like me who are disabled and on fixed incomes will have to come up with the money to get the kind of real protection OneCare offered (including the improved Firewall...the firewall that comes WITH XP is not as effective as the one OneCare provided. So where do I go? ZoneAlarm Extreme Security? $70.00 a year. Norton 360? $80.00 a year and no tune-up. Mcafee Virus Scan Plus? (About the same as OneCare was $40.00 per year or free if you have RealPlayer's Superpass Subscription...which I do).
But which is best?
I don't know...they all have their fans. But I know this...Morro won't even be in the top ten.Monday, August 24, 2009 9:12 AM -
I voted for your answer Steve..it was reasonable. But since I know what Morro WON'T have that OneCare (which, as mentioned above...was free for me with my ISP) had so I don't have to wait to be upset. I'll be looking elsewhere for the kind of protection I USED to get from Microsoft.Monday, August 24, 2009 9:16 AM
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Thanks, Cassandra.
I understand your concerns and I am also sorry to see OneCare be shelved.
Morro is now called Microsoft Security Essentials and it is in beta. It really does not change the protection offered by OneCare as it is built on the same core engine. It actually improves on the protection in at least one way - if it detects malware like behavior, but does not know how for sure if it is malware, it connects to the Microsoft servers to see if there is a match in the online signature data. If it finds a match, it immediately downloads the update that instructs it how to deal with the threat.
The other security features removed would be the firewall, which was often more of a pain than a protection - the reality is that the Windows firewall does a great job at protecting from inbound attack, and the monitoring of several settings that OneCare does - status of Automatic Updates, any missing updates, IE pop-up and phishing filter, and the often complained about macro and security settings for Office and IE that OneCare changed without notice.
Yes, the OneCare backup is gone, but the Windows backup, albeit limited, can server much the same purpose, but it limits the destinations for the backups. There are alternatives for backup, depending on your needs. Some are even free. A simple tool that can sync a folder of data from your PC to an external drive or other PC is Microsoft's power toy - SyncToy, for example.
Tune-up really only automates a few things that already exist in Windows - Defrag and Disk Cleanup. Both can be scheduled via the Windows scheduler, though running them manually once a month or so is sufficient, in my opinion.
A big loss for some is the ability to see the status of up to 2 other PCs on a Hub computer in a OneCare Circle. That was a nice feature, but it has its problems.
The choice is yours, of course, but my personal recommendation is to await the release of Microsoft Security Essentials and make the switch when your OneCare subscription is over. Depending on what you need for backup, it may well be worth simply purchasing a good backup program, which would be a one time charge and not a subscription, and using the free MSE protection.
-steve
Microsoft MVP Windows Live / Windows Live OneCare, Live Mesh, & MS Security Essentials Forums ModeratorMonday, August 24, 2009 11:29 AMModerator -
Hi,
I have now received a copy of Windows 7 Ultimate. I want to install it on my laptop which had Windows Vista Business. The upgrade process wants me to uninstall OneCare. OneCare has been one of Microsoft's success tools and I am very dissappointed that it is not available for new installs from 15th October.
The fact you had AntiVirus, Firewall and Backup with one tool and the ability to monitor using a Hub computer really was a bonus. I have installed the Windows 7 Ultimate on a test machine and then Microsoft Security Essentials and it is like going backwards. Instead of one tool to maintain your PC you now have to use additional tools. What a shame.
I will not install Windows 7 on my laptop until OneCare stops being supported.
DaveSunday, October 18, 2009 4:00 AM -
That's certainly your choice, Dave. In my opinion, going to Windows 7 has many more benefits than the features you lose in OneCare.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Monday, October 19, 2009 1:49 PMModerator -
Dave,
Had you noticed that it's already been mentioned in the Microsoft Security Essentials forums that the developers are considering adding control of the Windows firewall to a later version of MSE?
In order for such things to be considered, you really need to be active in those forums and using the newer products in combination to better understand and discuss what you'd like to see. Obviously this will require change, but you may find others there with the same ideas and interest in possible improvements.
These forums are primarily dead from a future development standpoint and exist mostly to provide conversion advice and minimal support for those not yet prepared to switch.
RobMonday, October 19, 2009 9:25 PMModerator -
Hi,
I have to agree that I am disappointed Windows OneCare is being discontinued. I have been using it for over a year now on several Windows XP machines and realized right away it was the very best antivirus/antimalware/antispyware product on the market for the money. I never experienced problems with Windows OneCare and agree with some prior comment on this blog that OneCare is a wonderful security tool. I previously used MacAfee Antivirus with the MacAfee Firewall and saw nothing but performance issues and serious problems caused by the MacAfee Firewall that destroyed one of my development machines. So I don't ever want to go back to MacAfee or Norton product, since I think Microsoft did the right implementation with OneCare.
Windows OneCare is an excellent product and the $40 subscription across up to 3 machines was an excellent deal! All we can do is hope the decision-makers at Microsoft extend OneCare internals into Morro, Windows Defender and the new Windows 7 OS, because OneCare is truly one of the best anti-virus/anti-malware/anti-spyware on the market today.
Where can I obtain Morro (Microsoft Security Essentials)? My OneCare subscription expires on March 3, 2010 and it would be really nice to go forward with a product based on OneCare security components.
Regards,
MarkMonday, November 16, 2009 2:04 AM -
Information on the end of life guidance and a link to Microsoft Security Essentials can be found here:
http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/onecareinstallandactivate/thread/0000c782-ed1b-4ed3-8afb-87989bb9638c
There's no need to switch to MSE yet since your subscription remains active.
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Monday, November 16, 2009 2:21 PMModerator -
I have upgraded to Vista just after i backed up my PC and files using Onecare. I now realise i am going to find it hard to restore the files without Onecare installed, which of course i can't seeing as i am now on W7. Any suggestions how i reocver the files back into W7 without Onecare installed?
ThanksFriday, December 4, 2009 6:34 PM -
I have upgraded to Vista just after i backed up my PC and files using Onecare. I now realise i am going to find it hard to restore the files without Onecare installed, which of course i can't seeing as i am now on W7. Any suggestions how i reocver the files back into W7 without Onecare installed?
Thanks
You can use the recently released tool for this:
http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/onecarebackupandrestore/thread/e5d686c8-762b-4b22-bc08-bfb93f911e57
-steve
~ Microsoft MVP Windows Live ~ Windows Live OneCare| Live Mesh|MS Security Essentials Forums Moderator ~Friday, December 4, 2009 7:25 PMModerator