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Duplicate posts and threads

Question
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I've seen a noticeable increase in the number of duplicated posts and threads lately. Finally got some proof. Needless to say, that's busy-work moderators don't need.
Quite remarkable btw how completely new software and hardware duplicates the Forums 2.x bugz almost verbatim.
Hans Passant.
Answers
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We acknowledge duplicate posting is a problem in a lot of systems, including these forums. There are a few different reasons for duplicate posts.
A user doesn't realize someone has already asked a similar question
There are a few ways to address this and varying degrees we could go to help reduce the problem of different users asking the same questions. Some discussion systems I have worked on or seen have gone so far as to not even let the user contribute a new question until they have gone through some process of manually searching first. I think that is a little extreme though, and unless you do it right, users end up getting frustrated or not understanding why they are being asked to do that. Another option, one we are considering, is to bring back a feature we previously implemented to show similar topics based on the subject of the thread they are about to submit. So when a user is creating a new thread we show them similar topics and message to them, "Hey, here are some similar threads, take a look before you create a new one!". This functionality was originally in 3.x for a short time. The ux was bad, we didn't have a lot of space in the 'new thread' ux for the information to really make enough sense to the user. As we re think the ux for end users asking questions we think this "related existing questions" is a step towards helping with the duplicate problem. There are some challenges though. Surfacing the information without confusing users or ensuring it is not too much a barrier for contribution is a balance we need to find. Also, doing this in real time (I notice the above example the threads were created about at the same time) is a little more difficult unless you are querying the database to find the similar threads.A user doesn't realize their new post/question was successful so they enter it again
The most common example of this is when a user is posting and some critical error happens OR their post takes so long to commit they give up or do not realize it was successful. They close their browser or if the application lets them, they click submit more than once. If these things are happening I consider them bugs and/or bad design. We simply shouldn't let users get into a situation like that. We should not let users submit or invoke any action that doesn't finish without some protection or ux that lets them know something is 'still working'. Users shouldn't have the ability to click submit over and over again. The application simply shouldn't "hang" either, and we are continually working on making our application more robust and resilient. Duplicate posts can also happen if a user can't find their newly created threads in their "My threads" area. The team is currently working on a fix for this.Spam user simply posting the same content, sometimes in some automated fashion
I'm not going to spend too much time talking about spam in this system. The goal being to not distract end users with garbage and to reduce moderator time dealing with deleting it etc. I would be curious to know how much of a problem moderators think this is currently in this system.
Brent Serbus STO Forums Program Manager- Marked as answer by Ed Price - MSFTMicrosoft employee Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:40 AM
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Thanks for the bug report Hans. My comment about 'a lot of systems' was mostly regarding forums systems that I've used. I acknowledge that it is a real problem that I'm aware of. I not attempting to paint this as a problem caused by the user. I think my reply above explains and acknowledges (or attempts to) that in many cases, these are very real and known issues in the system the team is working to resolve.
Brent Serbus STO Forums Program Manager- Marked as answer by Ed Price - MSFTMicrosoft employee Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:40 AM
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That one was by design, check this thread . I just saw the forum dev lead announce that the design will be changed next month.
Hans Passant.- Marked as answer by Ed Price - MSFTMicrosoft employee Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:40 AM
All replies
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And here's a classic example of a duplicated thread:
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vclanguage/thread/c8430c1e-dacd-49aa-a8b9-32395a7654af
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vclanguage/thread/42039995-bde3-4b10-bf91-9b5d2a7e6313
Hans Passant. -
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I've seen it too.
From the additional comments some people give when posting their duplicates it is (at least in some cases) coupled to the fact that MyThreads and User Threads are several hours behind the actual situation.
They are saying "This might be a duplicate. I checked MyThreads and my earlier post wasn't there".
WSS FAQ sites: WSS 2.0: http://wssv2faq.mindsharp.com WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007: http://wssv3faq.mindsharp.com
Total list of WSS 3.0 and MOSS 2007 Books (including foreign language titles) http://wss.asaris.de/sites/walsh/Lists/WSSv3%20FAQ/V%20Books.aspx -
We acknowledge duplicate posting is a problem in a lot of systems, including these forums. There are a few different reasons for duplicate posts.
A user doesn't realize someone has already asked a similar question
There are a few ways to address this and varying degrees we could go to help reduce the problem of different users asking the same questions. Some discussion systems I have worked on or seen have gone so far as to not even let the user contribute a new question until they have gone through some process of manually searching first. I think that is a little extreme though, and unless you do it right, users end up getting frustrated or not understanding why they are being asked to do that. Another option, one we are considering, is to bring back a feature we previously implemented to show similar topics based on the subject of the thread they are about to submit. So when a user is creating a new thread we show them similar topics and message to them, "Hey, here are some similar threads, take a look before you create a new one!". This functionality was originally in 3.x for a short time. The ux was bad, we didn't have a lot of space in the 'new thread' ux for the information to really make enough sense to the user. As we re think the ux for end users asking questions we think this "related existing questions" is a step towards helping with the duplicate problem. There are some challenges though. Surfacing the information without confusing users or ensuring it is not too much a barrier for contribution is a balance we need to find. Also, doing this in real time (I notice the above example the threads were created about at the same time) is a little more difficult unless you are querying the database to find the similar threads.A user doesn't realize their new post/question was successful so they enter it again
The most common example of this is when a user is posting and some critical error happens OR their post takes so long to commit they give up or do not realize it was successful. They close their browser or if the application lets them, they click submit more than once. If these things are happening I consider them bugs and/or bad design. We simply shouldn't let users get into a situation like that. We should not let users submit or invoke any action that doesn't finish without some protection or ux that lets them know something is 'still working'. Users shouldn't have the ability to click submit over and over again. The application simply shouldn't "hang" either, and we are continually working on making our application more robust and resilient. Duplicate posts can also happen if a user can't find their newly created threads in their "My threads" area. The team is currently working on a fix for this.Spam user simply posting the same content, sometimes in some automated fashion
I'm not going to spend too much time talking about spam in this system. The goal being to not distract end users with garbage and to reduce moderator time dealing with deleting it etc. I would be curious to know how much of a problem moderators think this is currently in this system.
Brent Serbus STO Forums Program Manager- Marked as answer by Ed Price - MSFTMicrosoft employee Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:40 AM
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Brent, I started this thread in the "Bug Reporting for Forums Platform" forum, not to the "Users make a lot of mistakes" forum. It is but one thread of many that I started this past month. And it was intended to remind the forum devs that the latest version of the platform software, especially the database synchronization part of it, is suffering from a large number of random failures.
I assume that's what you meant with "critical errors". There are a *lot* of critical errors. I encounter one several times a day, visiting the forums here. It is not "a problem in a lot of systems". Every bank I ever used has a big database system too. Yet, they never once transferred my pay check into my account twice. It is a chronic problem at the MSDN forums. And it has been for as long as I posted there. All the way back to the early days of Forums 2.x. A platform that disintegrated when patches and updates designed to fix a problem solved one problem and created three new ones. Much like what's happening right now.
I know y'all are working on a rewrite. We've been through that before and still haven't quite recovered from it after 8 months of agony. A positive attitude towards ending this never-ending beta cycle is to acknowledge that these are not user mistakes. And acknowledge that you need help from database professionals. I know your company has the resources, what it takes is somebody to muster them.
Give Alicia of STO a call to get that started. For example.
Hans Passant. -
Thanks for the bug report Hans. My comment about 'a lot of systems' was mostly regarding forums systems that I've used. I acknowledge that it is a real problem that I'm aware of. I not attempting to paint this as a problem caused by the user. I think my reply above explains and acknowledges (or attempts to) that in many cases, these are very real and known issues in the system the team is working to resolve.
Brent Serbus STO Forums Program Manager- Marked as answer by Ed Price - MSFTMicrosoft employee Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:40 AM
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So, this isn't a new bug, eh? That's pretty sad. Come on DevDiv. This reflects poorly on you. Any ETA on a fix? It makes reading things here extra painful.
The duplicates I see are exact duplicates. This includes the fact that if a reply is marked as "The Answer" for the thread, all duplicates of that reply are marked as "The Answer." I got sick enough of this to see if it's browser-dependent - it's not (FF ??, IE 8).
Here's a simple example of two duplicate replies that are both marked as the answer to the thread:
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/windowsazure/thread/f6d3f884-75b2-4c6a-90b7-447d8ed60952/?prof=required
TedHoward -
That one was by design, check this thread . I just saw the forum dev lead announce that the design will be changed next month.
Hans Passant.- Marked as answer by Ed Price - MSFTMicrosoft employee Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:40 AM
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